Dog trouble

[JadedStar]

Well just to point out, she is not young. She is actually pretty old. According to him, this waking up at 5 AM is a new thing. And occasionally it happens even earlier, until she gets what she wants.

 

Before this she had a routine and she would not whine. She wouldn't even wake up until he was getting ready to leave for work.

Also a lot of times she will go to the door and whine as if she needs to go out. And as soon as he gets up, she will race to her bowl or the kitchen! So she is a little devil, sometimes even lying to get a treat.

 

I edited my last post when you were responding to read iF she was young since i was not sure of her age.

 

As for the bolded quote, that is BECAUSE her no longer sleeping in the bed is a new thing. He has changed her routine on her, thus she has changed the routine on him. He should be getting up in the morning to tend to her. He can't expect that she won't want to eat and go urinate in the morning. You said she is an old dog and dogs EXPECT routine and if interrupted they have a period of readjustment. Just like with people who are older it is always going to be harder to adapt to routine changes then when younger.

 

if 5am is too early he has to decide when but it should not be much past 6 or 7am. Most people who own dogs know they have to get up early to take him/her to use the bathroom and feed them if they are a two meal a day dog.

 

Sometimes even 'lying' to get a treat? Not sure what you mean?

[Applewhite]

In his defense, he is not erratic in his timing. Since this whining problem started he does get up exactly at 5 AM to let her out and 6 AM to feed her. He is punctual. But according to him the 5 AM whining is new. And sometimes it happens during the night.

 

So what is an effective way to stop the whining. Some of which might not even be real. I am not sure she is REALLY in need to go out. But again, I can cope with the 5 AM better. I certainly want a way to let her know that the 3 AM whining is NOT allowed. What is a way to do this? What is crate training? He will never stick her in a cage if that is what you mean.

[Applewhite]

To explain the lying:

 

Say we are sitting on the couch. She will get up and go to the door and/or whine telling us she needs to go out. When we get up to let her out, she will walk away from the door and run into the kitchen meaning: 'Give me a treat!'. If we make her go out anyway, she will go out but not do anything, and rush back to her bowl to check if there is something there and again rush back to the kitchen: 'Feed me!' (And this is not around the time she gets fed).

[JadedStar]

In his defense, he is not erratic in his timing. Since this whining problem started he does get up exactly at 5 AM to let her out and 6 AM to feed her. He is punctual. But according to him the 5 AM whining is new. And sometimes it happens during the night.

 

So what is an effective way to stop the whining. Some of which might not even be real. I am not sure she is REALLY in need to go out. But again, I can cope with the 5 AM better. I certainly want a way to let her know that the 3 AM whining is NOT allowed. What is a way to do this? What is crate training? He will never stick her in a cage if that is what you mean.

 

I didn't think he would go for it. He seems to think that training her is a punishment and that is why he is going thru this now. Crate training is very effective but many owners think it is a punishment so they instead have very erratic training. You say he is not erratic in timing but he has been very lax and erratic in consistency with training her. Letting her sleep in the bed all the time and suddenly changing it when she is older is going to be a very hard habit to break off.

 

Read up on crate training. It would take too long to explain it all in a post but there are a ton of articles on it. Her being so old it might be a really tough thing to try to introduce now and she WILL whine. For puppies it establishes their own personal 'den' and it is a safe haven for owners to employ when they are not able to be there to supervise a dog who has not earned run of household yet (a dog who has earned this is one who does not have accidents or chew things up in the home when everyone is gone).

[Applewhite]

She doesn't chew anything. He will never go fot the crate training. All we want is to stop the early whining before 5 AM. We have agreed neither of us give treats anymore unless they are earned. But we just want an idea on how to fix this 1 problem.

[JadedStar]

She doesn't chew anything. He will never go fot the crate training. All we want is to stop the early whining before 5 AM. We have agreed neither of us give treats anymore unless they are earned. But we just want an idea on how to fix this 1 problem.

 

There is little that you can do except ignore the whining, don't give any reinforcement to it, and wait for her to tire of it. If he won't put her in a crate or in a section of the house where you can't hear it there is little else that you can do> IT is like a baby crying in many ways. If you know for a fact that everything is taken care of such as diaper changed, fed, dry, etc. sometimes they have to cry a little bit. I know that is annoying but he has abruptly changed her routine of many years by removing her from the bed to sleep (if that is what I am hearing) and that always causes some repercussions.

 

He doesn't sound very firm with her and almost like he 'humanizes' her reactions based on some of the things you posted here.

[Applewhite]

Alright will do.

 

That was the intial thing I suggested too even though I don't know much about training dogs. He claimed to do it, but not really, he can't help pet her when she comes by the bed. And she DOES stop at that, but for only a while and then continues to whine. In his mind he is helping when he pets her and calming her. But in reality I think he is just condoning and encouraging bad behavior. He agreed to this when I repeatedly pointed out that she CONTINUES whining until she gets something. Let's see if he can stick to it.

[JadedStar]

Alright will do.

 

That was the intial thing I suggested too even though I don't know much about training dogs. He claimed to do it, but not really, he can't help pet her when she comes by the bed. And she DOES stop at that, but for only a while and then continues to whine. In his mind he is helping when he pets her and calming her. But in reality I think he is just condoning and encouraging bad behavior. He agreed to this when I repeatedly pointed out that she CONTINUES whining until she gets something. Let's see if he can stick to it.

 

 

This is a case where the dog has successfully trained its owner. You see this often in older dogs with an owner who is not very firm.

[Applewhite]

This is a case where the dog has successfully trained its owner. You see this often in older dogs with an owner who is not very firm.

 

Can you elaborate? How has the dog trained the owner?

[JadedStar]

Can you elaborate? How has the dog trained the owner?

 

She knows exactly how to behave to get the desired outcome...to include being petted while he is lying in bed when she whines. She calls the shots ...

 

A dog whose whining was never catered to won't turn into an aged dog that whines all the time. he has a lot of former behaviors to try to undo and as i stated prior it is always more difficult with an older dog because like people they are more set in their routine that was already established (by your b/f).

[Applewhite]

Well yes. It is true he hasn't done a great job in training the dog in general. He would even parially admit to that himself. For instance when we walk, she will be in front of us constantly tugging at the leash. And if there is something that chatches her interest, she will stop and end up tugging at the leash from behind. But in general she is a smart dog. I don't know much about dogs and yet with me in just a couple of days she learned I don't like to be followed to the kitchen when I am cooking and I don't like her getting so close (she likes to get so close to you she is almost touching and watching every bite) when I am eating. I didn't even have to yell or anything, and she just figured out pretty quickly. However she will STILL do this when he is around, but NEVER try it with me. So I think it is just that he likes to spoil her.

[JadedStar]

yea, she probably shes you more as the alpha and does not see him that way at all. With him, SHE is the alpha. Dogs are very pack oriented and hiearchy driven. She is old now and he has established that he isn't the leader in this home when it comes to her. Discipline (not to be confused with punishment, punishment is not really effective, but consistent discipline and establishing what can and cannot happen IS very effective) has not been present, and likely might not be present moving forward, because he believes that setting limits is "cruel". Dogs and children are very similar in that if limits are not consistently set they become unruly because they NEED routine and end up behaving badly because they don't know HOW they should act.

 

These are hard habits to break, but eventually they can be broken but it will no doubt be prefaced wtih some whining and unpleasant behavior while a new routine is established.

 

I don't know how serious you two are in the relationship but I don't think it unreasonable to say if you ever plan on marrying and having kids with him he might be a similar parent~! That might sound like a stretch but i could see him just as easily not wanting to set limits with a small toddler looking up at him with innocent baby eyes because he will find it cruel not to give in.

[Applewhite]

True, I have thought what you just mentioned about him and parenting. Luckily neither of us wants kids (of course this may change, but right now doesn't seem likely). A lot of times when we are having dinner, he will even say: Are we torturing you baby? and feel sorry for her because she keeps staring and trying to get as close as she can to the food (to the point of putting her head on one of our laps and staring). However if I am alone in the house eating, she won't even try and she doesn't even care. It is all very interesting.

[PixelPusher]

If you/he aren't willing to separate the dog in another room to sleep or crate-train then you both MUST just be firm and IGNORE the dog when he whines at 3am. A firm NO! and then rolling over, ignoring the dog will work, but it WILL take some time. A week or so.

 

Yes, dogs love routing and yes, he did break the dog's past routine, but now getting up and whining IS the dog's routine. Your boyfriend is reinforcing negative behavior. A "treat" doesn't always have be an actual treat to consume. It can be lots of vocal praise and petting.

 

Basically, anytime the dog does something you don't like, give a firm NO and then ignore it. Anytime it does something right, praise (vocally or with a treat) immediately. The dog will learn. The dog caters and begs with him because he's learned your boyfriend is an easy pushover. It's not anxiety anymore, it is manipulation, pure and simple.

 

Crate training is not torture. Dogs love to have their own "dens" where they feel safe. Our three Chihuahuas have a huge kennel they all share, and they LOVE it. They go to bed all by themselves toward the end of the evening... we hardly ever have to tell them anymore. You never use a kennel as punishment because then the dog associates the den with bad things. But having one (even in the bedroom) while you sleep helps the dog. They still feel part of the pack but have their own space, too.

[Applewhite]

Thanks Pixel. Let's see what happens. This time rather than ignoring he got up and went to the living room. I don't know what he did but he closed the door behind him (they were both in the living room). This happened twice I think. I asked if he fed her and he said no (it was past her time). So maybe he is thinking of feeding her late every time she whines. And I think he went in to make her settle down and came back.

 

Now I feel like I am making him treat his dog bad I just think he sucks at training the dog, I have nothing against the dog.