Women approaching Men

[yahoo2]

"So it pretty much evens out then."

 

"that it's not easier on girls, even when they're hot, smart and nice."

 

Not really. I think women like to think they have it tougher than men for some strange reason in the initial approach and during the first few interactions. On the initiating, hardly. They prefer men to take the risks, so claiming it's "tough" to turn down dates is rather nonsensical.

 

Try getting rejected several times or more for each date you sucessfully go out on, and then also face rejection on the date.

 

That's what guys have going.

 

Turning down someone really doesn't compare, as it's rejecting, not being rejected.

 

Women really cannot understand men's dating challenges, nor would I expect them to. There's a constant need to rise above the frequent messages of "not interested" you receive as a matter of course. It's something that you're being constantly reminded of in dating, and it's not just something that occurs on a date. At least when you're being regularly approached or have to reject approaches you receive some kind of validation rather than dashed hopes. Despite everyone claiming it isn't personal, really, rejection is always personal, because it's directed at you. How you face frequent rejection is a test for a man.

 

It can be a challenge to maintain one's optimism during bad periods, where you can't even get a "yes" from a woman to accept a date, much less hope for a date to go well.

 

I think all guys will admit to having long stretches of date rejection offers unless maybe he's Brad Pitt.

[Batya33]

I went through lots of rejection when I was dating - ranging from being rejected by men I flirted with or "approached" to not being asked out for a second or third date, etc, to being rejected when I asked them out (probably a bit more than half the men I asked out - maybe it was 6 men total - as far as "approaching men" that I can't even put a number on other than "many").

[CaptainPlanet]

you know what's worst? there are actually 3 guys really interested in me, who have been asking me out on dates for the last couple of months consistently, and even tried going for a kiss. but I just couldn't go further with them.

 

go figure...

 

either way, I'm not complaining on anything. just thought it would be interesting to prove the point that we stand on even grounds when in the same position; that it's not easier on girls, even when they're hot, smart and nice (but not modest at all X D).

 

That is not equal to being constantly rejected. You have three offers for success whereas most men will have none. We will have to encounter suffering (rejection) to try to get success you have just have to sit back and do nothing.

 

How does that even out ?

 

Because you have the chore of having members of the opposite sex like you ? I see that as a positive not a negative.

[Cognitive_Canine]

That is not equal to being constantly rejected. You have three offers for success whereas most men will have none. We will have to encounter suffering (rejection) to try to get success you have just have to sit back and do nothing.

 

How does that even out ?

 

Because you have the chore of having members of the opposite sex like you ? I see that as a positive not a negative.

 

You seem to think that barely any men date and that women don't like men.

[CaptainPlanet]

You seem to think that barely any men date and that women don't like men.

 

Most attractive women are very fussy. They will have around 20 men chasing them at one time and they literally get to pick the one they want. Or they reject all 20 and find a man from somwhere else. I have said that half the time girls are simply not interested in dating unless they find someone special. Which is half the problem. Men want something practical and women are searching for some magic that does not exist. So it is usually up to the man to try and trick the woman into thinking that it is there. If women had to do the asking I think they're become a lot more practical, get tired of it all quickly and be more willing to enter into a relationship. However it will never happen. Women will always play weak when they do not want to do something.

[DN]

However it will never happen. Women will always play weak when they do not want to do something.

I do wish you would stop talking about women as if they all act the same (and usually in a negative way) - it's getting really tiresome, not least of which because it is a) insulting to women and b) totally wrong.

[agatha]

Most attractive women are very fussy. They will have around 20 men chasing them at one time and they literally get to pick the one they want. Or they reject all 20 and find a man from somwhere else. I have said that half the time girls are simply not interested in dating unless they find someone special. Which is half the problem. Men want something practical and women are searching for some magic that does not exist. So it is usually up to the man to try and trick the woman into thinking that it is there. If women had to do the asking I think they're become a lot more practical, get tired of it all quickly and be more willing to enter into a relationship. However it will never happen. Women will always play weak when they do not want to do something.

 

 

ok, first I said "it's worst" in a sense that it would be much easier to all if I was interested in any of the folks interested on me.

 

I was fussy and picky even before I overcame my 'ugly duckling' complex and got asked out once every two or three years.

 

BUT I also have to agree that this specific bolded part is pretty right, EXCEPT for the fact that it now applies to men as well.

 

or do you really think we have this huge amount of single guys out there because there are less single women in the world?

 

*the magical thing does exist, it's just not as easy to maintain as it seems. we could have a year-long discussion on the flaws of game-over generation and all, wanna go there?

 

ahem, I am doing the asking. the fact that I still get asked doesn't change it that much. I didn't become more practical, perhaps because I already know what I want and don't want on a relationship, and am not willing to stay with the first, afraid that that will be my last chance for getting out of the single's list.

 

what the hell have you got against women?????

[Cognitive_Canine]

I find just about everything there very offensive.

 

You seem to hate women.

 

Maybe you should switch to men.

[agatha]

I find just about everything there very offensive.

 

You seem to hate women.

 

Maybe you should switch to men.

 

no, please, don't! men are already a minority, please, please, please, stay on the reachable side of the fence!

 

(and pleaaaaaaaase stop hating us )

[yahoo2]

Ladies, a guy's game isn't always tight. Life has its ups and downs, and your success in dating is all about the approach. Everything hangs on it.

 

You've got some guys here who aren't as smooth as they'd like to be. I am maybe average to a little above average myself and that's all. I confess to getting confused about women's behavior sometimes. And screwing up the deal. Can't read everybody.

 

I'll bet most of the guys here are far, far from players. I'd guess a real player wouldn't get within 100 miles of this site. So you get the non player perspective most of the time. A lot of what they're currently trying isn't working, and it shows. Happens to me too when life isn't good or I figure the stakes are high.

 

I'll say I'm not always very smooth - some women I'd really like to date (more nervous, subconsciously, no doubt; I'm not a machine). I'm not sure whether it's a blessing or a curse that some women can garner that level of interest initially without thoroughly knowing them, but sometimes you have to make an assumption on what you've seen so far. I suppose if it never occurred life would be pretty boring.

 

Admit it - you do require a certain level of competence from a guy to pick you up, and some women are no doubt thinking, "okay, this better be good" when yet another guy approaches them. Throwing a non confident guy in the social world is pretty vicious when it comes to scoring women. So then they start threads like this wondering why.

 

The trouble is all threads of these sort are pointless, and rather than musings of this sort you're far better off practicing suave come-on lines to every halfway appealing woman you meet and who cares if they think you're a creep or not (Caring what women think ironically screws up more guys in their approach than anything). As smarmy as that sound to some of us it's a lot more likely way of getting a date than wondering why women don't approach men more often.

 

That ain't ever gonna happen so no use thinking it will change.

[corvidae]

I think the above post is very sensible.

 

I would like to say though, when it comes to dating women DO have it easier. MUCH easier. I'm willing to go toe to toe on that argument with God himself.

[Batya33]

I think the above post is very sensible.

 

I would like to say though, when it comes to dating women DO have it easier. MUCH easier. I'm willing to go toe to toe on that argument with God himself.

 

Then you never walked a mile in my shoes. Waiting for the call after a date (that might never come, even when in other areas of my life I would have called - I didn't call because I knew how easy it was to seem pushy as the woman and turn off the man), being rejected after making interest known (not just asking out the person, all sorts of interest), sometimes being in almost dangerous situations (happens far more to women than to men), etc etc.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I think the above post is very sensible.

 

I would like to say though, when it comes to dating women DO have it easier. MUCH easier. I'm willing to go toe to toe on that argument with God himself.

 

The grass is always greener.

 

Why would you think it to be easier?

[DN]

It is easier for some women - just as it is easier for some men. Depends on the individual and their own experience.

[Cognitive_Canine]

It is easier for some women - just as it is easier for some men. Depends on the individual and their own experience.

 

When I was in middle school, I did the asking. (mind you, this was just school dances)

 

I got rejected every single time. About 8 times over the course of 3 years.

 

It's not any easier for girls.

 

I'd consider myself a completely different person now.

[DN]

When I was in middle school, I did the asking. (mind you, this was just school dances)

 

I got rejected every single time. About 8 times over the course of 3 years.

 

It's not any easier for girls.

 

I'd consider myself a completely different person now.

My point is that another girl in another time and place will have has a different experience, some more positive other even more negative. Same with everyone else.

 

I think in terms of asking out - boys have it more difficult in making the initial approach only because fewer girls do it. If the approach were made by both genders in the same numbers the overall success/rejection ratio would be about the same - particularly as it became more commonplace.

 

In terms of the overall dating experience - what happens after the approach - I think it is probably as difficult but sometimes in different ways.

 

The bottom line - for most people dating can be fraught with difficulties., embarrassments, rejections, heartbreak, sorrow, tragedy --- OK, gonna stop now I wonder I ever got married.

[Cognitive_Canine]

My point is that another girl in another time and place will have has a different experience, some more positive other even more negative. Same with everyone else.

 

I think in terms of asking out - boys have it more difficult in making the initial approach only because fewer girls do it. If the approach were made by both genders in the same numbers the overall success/rejection ratio would be about the same - particularly as it became more commonplace.

 

In terms of the overall dating experience - what happens after the approach - I think it is probably as difficult but sometimes in different ways.

 

The bottom line - for most people dating can be fraught with difficulties., embarrassments, rejections, heartbreak, sorrow, tragedy --- OK, gonna stop now I wonder I ever got married.

 

I completely agree.

 

I was just giving an example of how the grass isn't always greener.

[corvidae]

Empiracle observation. All the people I know that are close to or over 30 who have never had a relationship are all men.

 

Women complain about men a lot, but the fact is virtually all women date at some point or another if they choose to. To have literally no success you have to be a man.

 

Hello. My real name is Matt. I'm 30 years old and I have never had a girlfriend or been on a date.

 

The grass is always greener.

 

Why would you think it to be easier?

[corvidae]

You're referencing a hypothetical scenario which has never been the case so we don't know what would happen. I would venture to say that if women do ever start making effort with men, then the situation as a whole will improve. My reasoning is simply that when two parties might be or might not be interested in one another, but a relationship is contingent on only ONE party making a move, then all those factors that stop that party making the move come into play and they may never meet. By having two willing parties ready to make a move, well one might not but the other might. It doubles the chances of success. Does it also double the chance of rejection? I'd say no, for the simple reason that men don't tend to approach unless they think they have at least a chance of success. Women are supposed to be more adept at reading body language and would be both giving out signals and also processing incoming signals before making a move. If a woman is then interested in a man, but the man is unsure because he can't read her, then there is always the probability she will approach him provided she picks up on his interest signals. The current situation is that a man might be CLEARLY interested in a woman, but even if the women sees his CLEAR interest she will do nothing because 1. women just aren't prepared to approach men 2. there is a notion that unless a man approaches a women he is 'not a real man' (see my thread on Women's Biggest Fallacy).

 

Those are my arguments for why if women change their behaviour slightly we would all be better off. If you disagree, I request politely that you do so by taking the arguments and providing a logical rebuttal NOT by just saying "that's all rubbish". Feel free to disagree, I think a cogent argument will be needed to back that up.

 

I like women, I have a lot of friends as women. I don't hate women. But I can still like women and point out things they currently do wrong, just as I can talk to a friend about something they do wrong while still being their friend. That might sound arrogant and it isn't meant to be. I'm sure I do a lot of things wrong. You might be a women sick of hearing men's opinions, but just remember that it's a lot easier to see a mountain from a distance than it is standing on top of it. These views I give are my external observations as a man. You, as women, may be very different people to that which we observe. But if you come accross a certain way to the observer, then why become angry when the observer tells you what they see? Debaser Wolf - I'm thinking of you here.

 

 

I think in terms of asking out - boys have it more difficult in making the initial approach only because fewer girls do it. If the approach were made by both genders in the same numbers the overall success/rejection ratio would be about the same - particularly as it became more commonplace.

 

In terms of the overall dating experience - what happens after the approach - I think it is probably as difficult but sometimes in different ways.

 

The bottom line - for most people dating can be fraught with difficulties., embarrassments, rejections, heartbreak, sorrow, tragedy --- OK, gonna stop now I wonder I ever got married.

[Batya33]

Empiracle observation. All the people I know that are close to or over 30 who have never had a relationship are all men.

 

Women complain about men a lot, but the fact is virtually all women date at some point or another if they choose to. To have literally no success you have to be a man.

 

Hello. My real name is Matt. I'm 30 years old and I have never had a girlfriend or been on a date.

 

I don't think it has anything whatsoever to do with gender (and my experiences are vastly different). And saying that "all women date if they choose to" is not only incorrect, it's also assuming that success means having a date, whether you like the person or not.

[yahoo2]

"Hello. My real name is Matt. I'm 30 years old and I have never had a girlfriend or been on a date."

 

Really? I gotta say something here. I wasn't going to comment further but this is way too sad (and pathetic) if it's true.

 

Why are you wasting your time this way?

 

Here's a fact. In dating, men experience more direct rejection because women don't generally ask and prefer not to. In life, men experience more rejection because women expect men to take the lead. In leading, you make decisions both right and wrong. Women might demand equality, but they sure ain't interested in demanding changes in dating gender roles that would expose themselves to more direct rejection than they're getting now. Insisting that men ask for dates seems to preserve the aura of "higher value" for women. Don't focus too much on this last sentence because that's your problem.

 

The reality is that a woman isn't one bit more inherently valuable than a man is, despite dating conventions. This is brought home most directly when you get to know some of these dating candidates and find out they have all kinds of bad behavior you don't want any part of. If you had actually been out on a date, you'd realize this, and subsequent dates are easier to get because you realize women are just like you in that we're all flawed.

 

Avoiding rejection doesn't get you anything. Yeah, you have to take more risks than women do. Yes, it can make you bitter, but women aren't suddenly going to ask you for a date just because you're bitter about facing rejection. Likely what will happen is you'll get even more rejection for having a bad attitude. So what good is having this perspective?

 

Realistically, what alternative do you have that will get you a date and break you out of this dateless cycle? If it doesn't involve something radically different than what you've been doing so far it's a wasted strategy.

 

Women ain't gonna change and they ain't gonna ask you. Period.

 

So, in light of this unarguable fact, just what are you going to do?

 

Men's sex drive is high for a reason - to relentlessly pursue women despite all the obstacles and BS they throw up along the way. Some men pursue it with a singlemindedness that gets them rejected a lot - but they also get dates - and they carry on the gene pool. To date, you've got to give some women the opportunity to reject you, and there's no alternative.

 

So, what is more valuable to you - being rejection free or not ever having a significant other? Is your pride overriding your desire to procreate? It shouldn't.

 

News flash - you gotta date a LOT in order to find a compatible person, and subject yourself to a lot of games and rejection.

 

So get busy, start asking, and change your life.

 

I realize this sounded like rah rah and MAN UP, but come on, thirty and no dates?

 

If you are interested in women sexually at all, hit on them.

 

If it helps to put you in the right mindset, look at it this way:

 

Ask a lot of women. Annoy as many as possible with dating requests. Since women would rather be bombarded by unwanted attention than take these direct risks themselves, accommodate them and play your gender role.

[VivaLaVidaX33]

Im a girl but Im really interested in this. what if the guy or XY bearer is really shy? how would y'all react to that?

[CaptainPlanet]

I think the concept of fairness if you are a working or lower middle class male is something you need to forget about quickly. The forces that be, those controlling the world and making decisions are against us in every arena of life. Things have been made more difficult in some way. What you are doing here is listening to the opinion of a few people who do not want to discuss things but want to put forward their own points of view as fact, to provide advice so that they feel better about themselves. They're not here to comment on the under workings of human psychology or what would be better for everyone.

 

When you tell a woman to approach a man you tell her to put herself in a threatening situation where she may face rejection. Something that hurts. Furthermore it would be difficult for a woman in a shot skirt and heels showing off as much as her chest as legally possible to walk up to a group of men and ask for a date. Usually they walk up to a group of men and start making out with one of them but that is a different sort of story.

 

Fact is women do often approach men and it works which is what is most frustrating about this conversation. It does happen and it is successful on many occasions.

 

We're listening to a few people rigid in their beliefs unless this is some sort of Americanism I can tell you through first hand experience that women approaching men does work.

[CaptainPlanet]

Im a girl but Im really interested in this. what if the guy or XY bearer is really shy? how would y'all react to that?

 

You just do what feels right. If you do not get any feelings you copy what everyone else does. If you like a man you go up to him and talk to him even if you are shy or if he is shy. We've not minder readers and we're people who have feelings. We take dating very personally so if a man likes a girl and nothing happens it is upsetting. You should definitely approach men if you like them.

[dr_styles]

"Hello. My real name is Matt. I'm 30 years old and I have never had a girlfriend or been on a date."

 

Really? I gotta say something here. I wasn't going to comment further but this is way too sad (and pathetic) if it's true.

 

Hey ... this is eNA - you better believe it!

(and this is exactly the sort of post/comment which shows why people can get pretty unhappy about it)

 

Being human nature there will always be the exceptions and variations but the average/norm result will be if you have a male and female who stand around leading the same normal but non-approaching lives, the female will have it easier because of the gender role stuff.

 

That's just my opinion of Men vs Women easier/harder thing anyway. Mind you I'm not living by any particular principle either. I'm just a typical eNA loner looking for ways to slowly break out.