Still not noticing missed opportunities

[Tom the fool]

My situation is the same one that periodically pops up here: I'm X years old and have never Y'd.

 

I talked about this, way back in June.

 

Anyway, nothing has really changed. What I've noticed is that, basically, I can't identify a single moment in these last several months where I know I should have asked someone out, or approached a girl, or said, "yeah, I'm game," when I said I was busy. Part of the problem is that I rarely meet new people. Or is that a symptom? I don't know. But I'm finding this to be really frustrating, because something about doing things differently is just not entering my field of vision.

 

I don't often talk about these things with others. I have on occasion, here and there, and when I have done so, somehow it doesn't seem to matter. When I have mentioned it to a friend, the answer is, either, "I don't know either," or some sort of answer that deflects the conversation somewhere else.

 

And message board responses just wind up seeming like phrases picked out of a bag. One conclusion that someone could draw from such a response is that I must not really be committed to change. And I have no rejoinder. Viewed objectively, what other conclusion can be drawn? But I can't help thinking that if I could run into the situation where I say, "oh, man! why don't you SAY something," then that would count as great progress. I know that I can bring forth the courage necessary, then, to say something. But the good angel of encouragement is in the Bahamas.

 

Somehow, to recognize failure: this is what I need. I need not only to be able to recognize that I continue to be alone but also that I can blame six o'clock on Saturday for it. Where was I six o'clock Saturday? Surely not where I should have been! But where should I have been? I did not approach the girl that day and strike up a conversation. But which girl? Where was she? Not where I was.

 

A bar? I could walk into a bar and order some orange juice. I would be comfortable, very comfortable to sit there for an hour and think: let my mind make a world of itself, a hell of heavenly contemplation. Or is it a heaven of my own damnation? Bah. I'm frustrated.

 

Not knowing what else to do, I gave eHarmony some more of my money.

 

Maybe I'll post some pictures of myself here on eNotaAlone. You could give me some advice about to do with my appearance.

[agatha]

hello, sir.

 

me and my friends have been trying to help another guy friend of hours in more or less the same position - he's slightly younger, though.

 

what seems to be missing in both his and yours attitude is that as it sounds by your previous thread and his attitudes is: you are so worried about what must the ideal girl be like that you look at the regular ones and think "they are not worth it".

 

you are good looking, have a degree, probably a promising career. and are looking for someone 'fit for the position', rather then just some random girl that crosses your path with some intriguing aspect that you overlook because the global package doesn't feel good.

 

finding love or someone cool to hang out with has nothing to do with logic. has nothing to do with objectiveness. it has to do with letting people in, it has to do with letting yourself go. breaking that squarely-framed image of yourself, that prevents you from reaching out. from flirting just for fun.

[somethngwrng]

You only made it to email with 3 women? What does that mean? You only messaged 3 women? You have to try harder than that... come on. Any attractive women on dating sites (at least the local sites here) are completely BOMBARDED with messages. I watched a girl I know using a local dating site, she was literally getting a message every 30 seconds from random men. Even a girl friend I consider unattractive was receiving a lot of messages. So pretty much, unless you really appeal to that particular woman, she has a LOT of other choice on these things.

 

Have you tried going for a different look? Look at what other guys are wearing on the street, keep up with fashions, visit your local casual clothing stores and look around... I change my 'look' a lot, my wardrobe is ever changing.

[Tom the fool]

somethng, eHarmony doesn't work like that. You have to go through a process before you get to the e-mail. You send off some multiple choice, "closed-ended questions," and then she responds with her answers and sends you her answers and her multiple choice questions. Then you send off your Must Haves/Can't Stands. And she sends hers. And then you send these short answer questions. And she sends hers. And then she has to send you an "Open Communication" hello. Then you're free to communicate over the eH system. At every step along the way, either person has the chance to close the match.

 

I definitely initiated communication with more than three women. I initiated with MOST women, with some experimentation along the way to see if it made any difference.

[Tom the fool]

finding love or someone cool to hang out with has nothing to do with logic. has nothing to do with objectiveness. it has to do with letting people in, it has to do with letting yourself go. breaking that squarely-framed image of yourself, that prevents you from reaching out. from flirting just for fun.

 

 

Agatha ("the virtuous one"), thank you. I think I sort of get what you're talking about. Or at least I understand that I don't just let myself go, or break out of a squarely-framed image. But how do I let myself go?

[agatha]

Agatha ("the virtuous one"), thank you. I think I sort of get what you're talking about. Or at least I understand that I don't just let myself go, or break out of a squarely-framed image. But how do I let myself go?

 

You are welcome, dear.

 

I think it can be useful if we brainstorm on this for a moment. How would you define "letting go"?

[Tom the fool]

(To be fair, I was using your terms, but I'll try …

 

Maybe where I go wrong is in defining my relationships statically. For instance, my relationship with my barber is precisely that: she cuts my hair, I politely engage in minimal small-talk, and give her a small tip. I don't intend for my relationship to be anything else. I don't want a friend in the barbershop, or a tutor, or a confidante. And this is fairly typical of the way I view most of my relationships.

 

But the amorous relationship is not static but progressive. It has a beginning, in which the distance between two needs to be shortened fairly quickly, and then it moves into later stages until it is finally consecrated in holy matrimony (or broken off, as the case may be).

 

Is that the sort of rigid structure that needs to be broken open?

[agatha]

(I noticed that ^^)

 

So, brrr, how can you be so cold? No relationship is static, as it relies on interaction... 'the sims' is a good model to prove the point that the more attention you give a person, the more likely it is that he/she will end up in love with you, and you with her/him. the less you interact, the less you care, the less they care.

 

So you found the what needs to be changed. But what changes it implies?

[Tom the fool]

… * that I should try sharing my deepest and most inmost desires with my barber?

[agatha]

(cool, you just gave me a laughing moment)

 

well, yes, no, sort of. just going a little beyond the "so, what do you think of our new president" talk would help. for starters, worry a little more about them, and less about you, for a while.

 

I really don't know how to explain how it works, that's the main reason I'm trying to bring you along in this. from my experience, it's just a matter of being honest when you ask people how they are doing, and look for signs of unusual sadness or happyness as a way of getting closer.

 

(btw, you should watch 'my best friend'(mon meilleur ami) - great movie)

[dr_styles]

My situation is the same one that periodically pops up here: I'm X years old and have never Y'd.

 

I talked about this, way back in June.

 

Anyway, nothing has really changed. What I've noticed is that, basically, I can't identify a single moment in these last several months where I know I should have asked someone out, or approached a girl, or said, "yeah, I'm game," when I said I was busy. Part of the problem is that I rarely meet new people. Or is that a symptom? I don't know. But I'm finding this to be really frustrating, because something about doing things differently is just not entering my field of vision.

 

Sorry to hear you haven't (seemingly) made any progress Tom. As you say yourself, I'm in the same I'm X years old and have never Y'd category too, and in a similar case of just not seeing anything happening. I don't know how your daily/weekly life is, but any update on how those Dance lessons (or anything else you've tried) are going?

As a bit more background I would say I'm at a stage just before yours, where I've been pushed over-the-edge and want to slowly change myself, but I'm still figuring out turning my small likes and interests into an out-going hobby (yes like most I don't go out often; hate the bars/clubs, etc.).

As part of that I'm much more open to approaching women. In the past I wouldn't have cos of shyness - I mean I still am very shy, but I've got that bit self-pressure to hopefully push me to doing it - ofcourse this is all just talk because back to your point, I haven't seen any oppurtunities.

 

Well I suppose that sounded like more of a rant than I wanted, so I'll stop now, but good luck for you and all us similar guys.

[Tom the fool]

… but any update on how those Dance lessons (or anything else you've tried) are going?

 

I'm pretty good at dancing rumba, foxtrot, and waltz. It's definitely helpful. I continue to learn, and once I add that crucial element to whatever I've got missing, it will be of very real benefit I'm sure. It's also enjoyable in itself.

 

Any advice on those pictures? What sorts of things would make me look better?

[agatha]

how about less "me" and more "she"?

 

you are as ready as one can be for a first relationship (i.e. completely lost - but now you know how to dance, which is a great plus X D), but you will get nowhere else unless you give it a real shot.

[Tom the fool]

Alright, then. What sorts of things can I do to make women/people more comfortable?

 

 

(But I would still like any advice on those pics, since I'm imperiling my anonymity by leaving them up).

[agatha]

to me you look better with no beard/moustache/whatever facial hair beneath nose line. that's a very personal thing, and you will find women all around the place that would prefer many different things.

 

AND I already said you look good. hope you're not fishing for comments on your hidden hotness, but your looks give away your brainy-self. perhaps it would have looked better if you took the camera out of your neck, but still, you were with a kid on your lap, which can be an excuse for that fashion-sin. color-matching is great (black/kaki, red/kaki), I like the frames, fit your face.

 

I know guys who are ugly as the insides of a pig and are on steady relationships. you've got extras in there, then. besides, I am of the strong opinion that as long as you wear whatever feels comfortable, you'll be gaining overall confidence.

 

so.. what I don't understand is: you don't talk to women, or you can't get past the 'don't you find obamamobile awesome?'

[gd16]

I'm pretty good at dancing rumba, foxtrot, and waltz. It's definitely helpful. I continue to learn, and once I add that crucial element to whatever I've got missing, it will be of very real benefit I'm sure. It's also enjoyable in itself.

 

Any advice on those pictures? What sorts of things would make me look better?

 

I'm a straight guy, but one recommendation that was made to me a long time ago that I took to heart was getting some contact lenses. YMMV.

[Tom the fool]

one recommendation that was made to me a long time ago that I took to heart was getting some contact lenses. YMMV.

 

I intend to get the laser surgery once I actually have a budget surplus. That may be awhile. I tried contacts once, and found that each time I put them in, it got harder and harder for me to actually bring my finger up to my eye. The cost of surgery at this point would be large and painful. I would be willing to do it if there were a consensus out there that it would have a comparably large impact on my appearance.

 

Clothing is a more affordable option, as are modifications to hairstyle, facial hair, etc.

 

I've been trying to figure out how to answer agatha's last question:

what I don't understand is: you don't talk to women, or you can't get past the 'don't you find obamamobile awesome?'

and I don't think I know the answer.

 

There's an old joke about Jean-Paul Sartre sitting in a café in Paris. He says to the waitress, "I would like a cup of coffee please, with sugar but no cream." She replies, "I am sorry, sir, we are out of cream." A little disappointed, Sartre asks, "well, then, how about with no milk?"

 

Which sort of non-doing am I doing? Not engaging or not getting past the conversation starter.

 

For me, I know I must be missing opportunities to meet and talk to women, but since I can't tell you what those opportunities are, I can't tell you if I'm aiming too far to the left or to the right. I don't freeze up when I see a pretty girl, and think, "oh, geeze, you should talk to her. I can't. I will. I can't. I will. No, I can't." Someone who does that KNOWS he's missing his chance. He is, in a sense, actively not talking. But, if that is my problem, then I manage to distract myself enough so that I don't get to the point where I need to be talked out of it. Now, I know that I do carry out small talk with people I meet in passing, but it feels like multi-tasking, and so it doesn't get very far. But these people are men and women and of various ages. Among them, have there been any attractive women approximately my age who might be reasonably expected to be both single and straight? Statistically, it doesn't make sense to say that there weren't, but I don't really recall.

[steve33]

You're probably not being aggressive enough, but you think women don't want men to be very aggressive and frank. You know women claim they don't want me to be sexually aggressive or to say "dirty" things, that's actually a lie in most cases. I'm sure there are some out there, but I knew some women who would act offended and appauled if people even talked about sex, and because I didn't, she lost respect for me as a male and lost any chance. She literally told my friend, who is her cousin, that I should have been way more aggressive and should have said very sexual things to her....

[Tom the fool]

you think women don't want men to be very aggressive and frank.

 

When did I say this? Or, if I did not say it, what cause do you have to think that I believe this?

[agatha]

what is the male-female proportion in your city?

 

I know this may sound weird, but the only reason I can find for you not experiencing at least once the feel that "hey, that one might be worth a cup of chai latte" is that you live somewhere like this place I've been once where there were 5 men for every woman in town. and most of those women were already married or underage - a nightmare for some X D.

[Tom the fool]

No, I don't live in that town. It's just that I've spent the last four years in a school like that, and I'm in a church like that, and I very often find myself in exactly those conditions. Although it isn't quite a male-female problem. It has to do with age & sexual orientation, which adds a level of complexity. (The school also happens to be a haven for people who carry all sorts of wounds from their past, and I've gotten sort of conditioned to relating to them with a certain awareness and delicacy, which isn't exactly great for intimacy with the average person).

 

(Chai Lattes … Obamamobiles … * what is the world coming to?)

[dr_styles]

haha Tom yeah I'm a bit confused with all these references.

 

Well Tom what do you personally believe at the moment? Missing opportunities or not getting any? A better way to put it might be do you trust your eyes (which see no interest) or do you trust "faith", to put it loosely?

[Tom the fool]

Well, it's sort of a false choice, isn't it? I say I keep finding myself in places where I don't have any opportunities to make dates, but it isn't really that I find myself there. I first put myself there. On the other hand, I do sometimes go down to the local Ace Hardware or the grocery store, and, in those places, you get a little more even demographic, but it's not known as a social venue.

[agatha]

hmmm... now the picture is getting clearer.

 

first of all, please do not panic at my foolish examples. I'm weird, and usually my brain works like an improbability generator. I tend to adjust the results to what can be understood by regular humans, but it's not a 100% adjustment yet. gotta work harder on that X D (if you need to be so sure, YES, I'm joking!!! = )

 

(note to self: urgh, just noticed I wrote leave instead of live on the previous post. I guess I was sleepy when I wrote that X p. correcting it asap!)

 

so, ok, let me see... you go to work, you go to church, and to the hardware/grocery store, PERIOD??? oh, wait! yes, dance classes. phew! at least that.

 

baby, are you aware that you have the routine of a married man?

[Tom the fool]

Now that you mention it, I do have that routine. So what's the other routine?

 

(And where do the women who refer to improbability generators hang out?)