Degree vs. job training

[LostnConfused87]

I just got done talking to a counselor at my college. He tells me that employers these days are different than before.

 

Before, they used to look at people with degrees or w/e and think hmmm...hes got potential, so they spend resources training them.

 

Now, they want you to have a degree and expect you to make them money from day 1 of work almost with little or no training, cuz that wastes their time and money.

 

How true is that? I'm not old enough to know D:

[amipushy]

I think to some degree (pardon the pun) that he is correct, I think if you do some voluntary work in the field where you want to specialize it will give you a much better chance.

[Batya33]

I don't think that can possibly be right, because it presumes that all degrees are equal and that all jobs are equal and that all companies' needs are equal. It depends on the type of job and type of degree and type of company. A small accounting company may need someone to hit the ground running while a large firm already has an extensive training program in place to train people to do things their particular way. Someone with a law degree - same thing. A sales job has different requirements than a consulting job. It all depends. It doesn't hurt to have worked during college in the field you want to go into and it can help with connections, skills, etc.

[Lionel Hutz]

This is why they have work studies and internships. They dont want to put someone on salary for 70k a year to find out a month from now they wasted 6 grand, while someone with a degree and no experience expects 70k.

 

The logical thing to do, and the most beneficial for both parties, is to have a readily available candidate. Some people are great at taking tests, writing papers, and theorizing about a subject. But when the actual subjective problem is presented in real time, they might crumble under pressure.

 

Times are different, more people, more competition, a wider forum to draft potential employees, so being the cream will help you get in quicker.

[COtuner]

I just got done talking to a counselor at my college. He tells me that employers these days are different than before.

 

Before, they used to look at people with degrees or w/e and think hmmm...hes got potential, so they spend resources training them.

 

Now, they want you to have a degree and expect you to make them money from day 1 of work almost with little or no training, cuz that wastes their time and money.

 

How true is that? I'm not old enough to know D

 

Actually, it's kind of true. Many companies are cutting down on training dollars. You will find tuition reimbursement for taking courses, and many managers will let you take a day or two off work to take a class if you want to pay for it or apply for reimbursement, but yeah, in many fields they really do want you to walk in the door productive. I work in engineering and it's BIG TIME like that. Now my parent company does offer lifelong training opportunities, but when you first start, if you can't do the job, you're better off taking a lower position and working your way up. Mainly because it's highly competitive and there are fewer jobs. I've watched training ops drop over the last 10 years. I work to create my own, negotiate money and time for training when hired instead of a signing bonus, insist upon a development plan and so on, but I had to do my time before I could force those things onto the table.

[COtuner]

This is why they have work studies and internships. They dont want to put someone on salary for 70k a year to find out a month from now they wasted 6 grand, while someone with a degree and no experience expects 70k.

 

The logical thing to do, and the most beneficial for both parties, is to have a readily available candidate. Some people are great at taking tests, writing papers, and theorizing about a subject. But when the actual subjective problem is presented in real time, they might crumble under pressure.

 

Times are different, more people, more competition, a wider forum to draft potential employees, so being the cream will help you get in quicker.

 

This is quite true. I've kicked a lot of junior level employees out the door because they don't have a work ethic, don't know how to work in a team environment, can't deliver the quality needed (or worse yet, don't understand that "quality" = usable). There are no grades in the work place - if your stuff isn't usable, buh-bye. Those who had internships with real responsbility - not coffee getting and paper filing - did much better and were assigned mentors to help teach them how to move forward.

[lady00]

Depends entirely on the job. Some may throw you in the deep end with no training. Others won't.

[brighteyes1186]

I'm inclined to agree with your counselor, especially in this economy. My job searching right now is pretty arduous, since there are so few truly entry-level positions available. Companies aren't interested in wasting money on training and making up for someone's learning curve, so I'm hard pressed to find many jobs in my area that don't require at least two years' experience. And I live in what I think is the second largest city in the U.S.

[purpleduckie]

it really depends. i dont think i personally know anyone who has gone into a job and didn't receive any training... although the fact that we all need experience in order to get a job does prove that to a degree.

[Cognitive_Canine]

It really depends on the job.

 

Your best bet is an internship over the summer between years of college. You'll get your name out on the market, meet some possibly important people, and have a heads up on what is to come next.

[ww2]

Look at it from the employers point of view. You are one of many with a piece of paper saying you have the minimum skills for the job you are applying for. You are an expense (not just in money) and a risk for them (depending on the state, a big risk.) The more reasons you give them to hire you (e.g. experience in the field, extracurricular interests, knowledge of the business aspects of their company, acting like the kind of person they are looking for) the more likely they will.

This is a brew with no one answer. Life is getting ready to be less black and white.

[MollyElise]

It really depends on the job, but in general I think it is best to be as well rounded and experienced as possible (duh). Alot of students look at Internships as such a problem or stupidity (like a PT job), when I really see them as one of the biggest pluses you get in college, if you start looking early for a good internship it can really open alot of doors (assuming you work hard).

 

I know I would be very, very reluctant to hire someone with a degree and NO relevant experience. (HR here)

[Batya33]

Also it's up to the applicant to show the potential employer how her skills could transfer or be relevant to the job she is applying for. Such as camp counselor, waiter, nanny -- come up with a realistic way to explain how what you learned on those seemingly unrelated jobs would apply to the job you are applying for - you know, like people skills, tolerance, endurance, whatever "fits".

 

In my experience career counselors who have been out of the hands on working world for too long often are too pedantic or not in touch with what is really going on in the workplace. I've interviewed many people who went to my college or grad school who said they were given resume assistance by the career planning office and often their resumes are the most befuddled and have the most mistakes --that may be because of poor staffing at the career planning offices, poor advice, etc. but I've had that experience many times. No offense to career counselors- just my personal experiences!

[CaptainPlanet]

I think this is one area where gen y has it really tough. Our parents would have been mentored and trained, given chances to develop skills. A lot of them simply did not want to because they did not see it as important. We're facing a bottleneck with a lot of pressure from behind so there are a lot of people pushed up against the glass going nowhere quickly.

 

I can't understand how a person can go through an Engineering degree, pass and not be competent or offered any sort of job. If you can get through that degree you've got brains and a company should train you. Same with computer programming. Most of the advertisements I see want a person with 1-2 years experience and a degree, no noobs.

 

Likewise companies insist on employing only a certain type of person. That type of person can often be a spoiled brat. Then they complain this generation has no work ethic. Very frustrating at times.

 

I used to work at a call center full of people around my age. They were all intelligent and hard working, most of them had degree's. One person in my group even had an E.E (so scary that our society doesn't value E.E). Mean while our country is paying out $100 an hour for CAD drafters. Not nothing to say that is an easy job that does not require skill. I don't know if I would be able, but surely, out of those hundreds of young people working dead end jobs a big chunk would be trainable? Big waste of talent and as our folks start retiring the economy will take a big dive because there won't be many skilled workers left. I post this as a guide so you can decide yourself. Really sad to see the employment prospects that are on offer. Sometimes it can be sobering experience to see the employment advertisements for places like KFC that target young adults.

 

Our government just does not care about creating skills. In my opinion you create a skilled workforce and you create jobs. You also get rid of debt in the economy because the jobs are producing more value. With the 38 billion recently invested in construction I'd love to see how much of that is going to go towards creating new skills. We could build so many things if we had cheap skills on offer. If people could easily get skilled we could lower the minimum wages which would boom for commerce. Are they going to give someone an apprenticeship or a trainee ship or will they just pay the current workforce extortionist rates to do a job ?

 

I'm really not sure what you should do. On one hand they want vocational skills on the other they want people with degrees or you can get brushed aside into a dead end jobs. Employers really don't care about people they want the best of both worlds. So all you can do is offer them what you have and they will likely take what is the best they can get. I think it is a personal decision and neither is better than the other. Depending purely on what you think feels right for you.

[CaptainPlanet]

It really depends on the job, but in general I think it is best to be as well rounded and experienced as possible (duh). Alot of students look at Internships as such a problem or stupidity (like a PT job), when I really see them as one of the biggest pluses you get in college, if you start looking early for a good internship it can really open alot of doors (assuming you work hard).

 

I know I would be very, very reluctant to hire someone with a degree and NO relevant experience. (HR here)

 

I don't think many people in college would see gaining relevant experience as being silly. I have also heard that getting an internship can be very difficult.

 

I guess that above post is a vote for get vocational skills, get experience, then get a degree if you need to.

[COtuner]

Replying to CP...

 

Because nowadays it's all about cost. Thanks to China and India and the like having low labor costs, most employers in Western countries are forced to cut back on anything that increases the cost of skilled labor. That includes training, benefits, recruiting, and so forth. Hiring someone right out of school with a degree does still happen in larger companies (like LockMart, United Space Alliance, etc) but it's just too much of a delay in getting productive work.

 

This WILL shift in time as more Baby Boomers retire. Companies are starting to realize they have to train (Mercedes just hired a bunch of young engineers for training) but the shift in mentality is coming slowly at a time when the economy is so volatile and employers are freaking out a bit. I'm planning on positioning myself to move into another aspect of my industry as soon as those opportunities open, but I may be looked at as too old, at mid-career and lose out to someone your age, no matter how good I am at what I do. So have patience, young Jedi, and keep your eyes open for doors about to open.

[CaptainPlanet]

By the time that happens I get the feeling people my age who missed out on entry level will be considered too old for entry level anyway. For an ageist employer I am already too old.

 

I still think it is best to get a degree because not everyone can get vocational experience without a qualification. Then you just end up older with nothing to show for it.

[COtuner]

By the time that happens I get the feeling people my age who missed out on entry level will be considered too old for entry level anyway. For an ageist employer I am already too old.

 

I still think it is best to get a degree because not everyone can get vocational experience without a qualification. Then you just end up older with nothing to show for it.

 

Well, I changed careers at age 28 - including going back to college - so it's doable.

 

As for vocational training - I will ALWAYS back internships. Vocational is good if you're looking at IT or software or something like that. But seeking out the right internship can be like rocket fuel for your job search. I do concede that it is easier in graduate school, BUT older undergrad students are often welcomed into internships because they are perceived as more mature and dedicated.

 

For me, I had a job working for the university itself in a research position. Started as a graduate assistant and moved to full time salaried employee. That led to other opportunities as I met people.

[CharlesF]

Having the degree still carries allot of weight versus not having a degree. It might also depend on your field. While you are in school, though, you can work as much as possible. You can work in the Summer, Christmas break, Spring break, and possibly a semester or two in an area related to your field. Then when you graduate, you will have both the degree and experience and be the best type of candidate for a job.