An exception to the rule?

[HNR]

I wrote this as part of another thread on a related topic, but I've started a new thread to find out whether there are other like minded people.

 

I think I'm a real rarity when it comes to the effects of NC. I know that NC is the chief tool for healing, but some people (especially in the wake of their break-up) also use it as a means of getting the attention of the person they have broken up with.

 

Whether I am dumper or dumpee, an extended period of NC has always strengthened my resolve never to get back with an ex. I think, subconsciously, it makes me feel like they don't care, and when they do come back - somewhat belatedly - I always suspect their motives are dubious. Also, as a dumper, I would be much less inclined to break NC (and never have) because they way I see it, I broke up with the dumpee for a reason, and would thereforee expect the dumpee to make approaches indicating their willingness to change and/or work on the relationship.

 

Also, as a dumper, crying, begging and pleading does work on me! It makes me think that the dumpee wants me so much and is so scared of losing me that they will make a strong effort to change.

 

Am I just weird or naive? I'm female and have had two long term relationships (one of 9 years, whom I married, and one of 10 years) over the past 20 years and have had 3 long term relationships in total.....

 

I no longer wish to reconcile with my ex and am out there dating and having fun but I visit these boards through a force of habit!

[Sturmhouse]

How are we to judge whether our exes are also exceptions to the rule?

 

I've never been in a LTR, and never been dumped before...I don't know my ex well enough to determine how she would react to either method.

[SighSob]

I wish I knew what to do. I thought I knew my girl pretty well and that showing her I was willing to do ANYTHING would have made her reconsider her choice, but it didn't. I guess there's no right or wrong method. If two persons are meant to be, they will be, NC or not!

[HopeArises]

CHASING, BEGGING, PLEADING NEVER EVER works to build attraction, unless you left them because you secretly desired him to chase you to prove to yourself that he was crazy about you.

 

Giving the dumper SPACE, ROOM TO BREATHE POST-BREAKUP is the ONLY way to show your partner that you respect them and this is done through ACTIONS and not words and promises. Making empty promises because someone leaves you never lasts and I'm assuming it didn't in your case, because you are no longer with that person who chased you promising you the world in the process.

 

When someone GIVES up, no matter how much begging, crying, or pleading you do, you will NOT change their mind. Acceptance, space and respect is the ONLY way to go. Let them see the changes in you through your actions and interactions and not through words.

 

I don't believe that NC is the answer. Space IS important, but NC is usually done for 2 reasons:

 

1. The dumpee just CANNOT handle themselves properly in front of their ex and they constantly break down and give into their emotions with is VERY unattractive.

 

2. To get over the dumper when you really DO want to move on from them.

[HNR]

How are we to judge whether our exes are also exceptions to the rule?

 

I've never been in a LTR, and never been dumped before...I don't know my ex well enough to determine how she would react to either method.

 

I feel for your Sturmhouse, I really do. I'm not really suggesting that you do anything other than follow the perceived wisdom of those on this board that have a lot more experience regarding break-ups and make-ups than me. I don't know of the background to your relationship, but I think you stand a good chance of healing and/or reconciling if you follow the advice of those on this board that have been in a similiar situation.

 

I'm basically carrying out a crude poll to see if there is anyone else that feels like I do. I was also secretly noting the responses and ages of men and women

[HNR]

I wish I knew what to do. I thought I knew my girl pretty well and that showing her I was willing to do ANYTHING would have made her reconsider her choice, but it didn't. I guess there's no right or wrong method. If two persons are meant to be, they will be, NC or not!

 

Hi again, Bob, I'm glad that you've come to the conclusion (as you said in another thread) that your best course of action is to go NC (as your ex is now interested in someone else) and see if she contacts you and then you'll decided if you even want her back!

 

Stay strong!

[HNR]

Please Hope, calm down and make yourself a cup of tea! I'm just trying to find out if there are others out there like me - I'm not advocating you go and make an idiot of yourself infront of your ex

[catfeeder]

Lots of couples do an endless dismal dance of breakup, reconcile, fight, break up again, ad nauseum. Some would argue that whatever they did 'worked' but that's only true if that outcome is what you want.

 

NC has been about retaining my own dignity when I'm the dumpee. My recovery method isn't popular because all the straight talk suggests accepting what you just plain can't accept at the time. I don't disagree with straight talk, I've just never been able to pull it off without tricking myself. I cultivated 'triumph fantasies' that promised when I see ex again in 6 months, I'll have gained a promotion at work, lost 10 pounds, regained my self respect, finished my master's degree, and I'll be fAbulous. He will see me as better off, and he'll be sorry--and I'll be proud. This got me out of bed every day feeling more energized and determined to enforce NC. Sure enough, the whole fantasy faded over time as I engaged healthy pursuits once again.

 

When I'm the dumper, all I've ever wanted is strict NC. For some reason, lots of people adopt the idea that it's mature to be friends with exes, even when there's no children to co-parent. (I think too many kids from broken homes grew up to believe that this is how adults do things, or something.)

 

But IMO, nobody can be friends right after a breakup without fooling themselves. It's trying to have it both ways. In a good friendship, neither person holds an agenda. Well, right after a breakup, one person wants the other back (secretly or not) so they manipulate and suffer while the other feels guilty and obligated and resentful (secretly or not). It's just a big groaner, and one or both people never move forward (secretly or not) until they quit picking that thing.

 

Thanks for hearing my opinion, this was fun.

[HNR]

You know, I should stress here that in my 41 years I've only had three serious long term relationships spanning 24 years, so I've not had to speak in terms of "my ex ex ex ex", "my fourth ex before my last one" or "my ex of five relationships ago". I'm seriously in awe of those people in those circumstances; it sounds really emotionally exhausting to me. Are people really giving all of themselves in all those relationships, or are they only giving a part of themselves as they are "guarding" their hearts?

 

thereforee, I don't really have experience of this "dance" that you describe, catfeeder, but interestingly enough, I did have the "triumph fantasies" you talk about after my last break up - which helped me get through the day, too!

 

Maybe it's my lack of experience of the whole "break-up, make-up" trauma which makes me more inclined (naively?) to throw my arms around a weeping regretful dumpee. However, I can see why their actions would annoy me if I had been detaching myself from the relationship for sometime and had my eye on someone else.........!

[tin_tin]

I wrote this as part of another thread on a related topic, but I've started a new thread to find out whether there are other like minded people.

 

 

Also, as a dumper, I would be much less inclined to break NC (and never have) because they way I see it, I broke up with the dumpee for a reason, and would thereforee expect the dumpee to make approaches indicating their willingness to change and/or work on the relationship.

 

Also, as a dumper, crying, begging and pleading does work on me! It makes me think that the dumpee wants me so much and is so scared of losing me that they will make a strong effort to change.

 

!

 

 

 

Well, a simmilar situation happened to me. (Im currently going through a break up with the same girl after being together 3 years, she ended it)

 

 

A year into our relationship, she had some trust issues with me and said to me one night "whatever you doing tonight, please dont tell me. theres probably loads of skinny pretty girls there and everyone will be drinking"

 

So, i said to her, i cant be with you, if you dont trust me.

Yes, i was a little mean by saying i need some time apart to think about things.........

 

I know she was upset, and crying......kept texting me how she was sorry and stupid, and should have never doubted me etc............

 

I did used to to text her, and she told me that i ripped her heart out and stomped all over it, and to stop being friendly cos it hurt so much.

 

i Wrote her a letter telling her how i felt about things.

 

Then she wrote a letter to me, telling me she was stuck between a rock and a hard place, she was miserable, couldnt sleep, or eat.......Wishing we were back together, when the door rings, she thinks its me, remembering all the things we had done. Poured her heart out to me. Saying that she would be there for me, whenever i needed her.

Her mum, even approched me and said "whats going on, shes miserable"

 

Then her parents and us went to a football match, her dad told her grandad that we were being adult about things......"just being friends"

 

We sat on the coach together on the way back holding hands.....then we ended up sleeping together.

 

Then after nearly 2 months, i thought to myself. What the hell am i doing. I really love this girl, and want to be with her. Why am i putting her through this??

 

 

Then we meet up a few times, go for a drive together......talk things through. And got back together.

 

 

 

 

I hate it how im going through the pain that i put her through

[HopeArises]

Please Hope, calm down and make yourself a cup of tea! I'm just trying to find out if there are others out there like me - I'm not advocating you go and make an idiot of yourself infront of your ex

 

Based on you expressing several times how you feel neglected in relationships it's no wonder you enjoy the attention when you leave them.

 

In any case, I am CALM and I don't like tea.

 

You don't have to worry about me making an "idiot" of myself in front of my ex.

 

If I have one piece of advice, you should be a little bit more considerate and have a little more tact of those people on HERE who have, or are making "idiots" of themselves in front of their ex's the way your ex's seem to have done with you in the past, which you for some reason enjoyed.

 

Most people don't DUMP someone in hopes that the person they dumped will come running after them. Again, it seems like your reason for leaving is to precisely get that "11 year old" reaction .

 

Cheers

[HNR]

Going slightly off topic to refer to your case, I had a look at a couple of your previous posts and it would appear that you have "gone NC/limited contact" during your current break-up. The reason why I say this is because you said she sent this text:

 

"Do u want me out of your life forever, cos with u ignoring me and not talking to me makes me feel you dont want me back at all, ever"

 

I think that this suggests she feels undervalued. You yourself admitted that after she broke up with you, you kept your responses to her communication brief.

 

Reading your post about the break-up, she doesn't sound to me like the break-up is what she seriously wanted - I think she wanted you to be more attentive.

 

When you broke up with her, she told you how miserable she was without you. It had an effect. When she broke up with you, she got no insight to your emotions at all even though you were hurt. You know her better than I do, maybe she feels you're distant.

 

Back on topic, you know, your story regarding your first break up (which you cite in your post on this thread) serves to prove that each situation is unique and whilst all us posters give advice to the best of our ability and experience with the information lain before us, you know your ex best.

 

I think the thing to do is to use the advice which resonates with you best, but you must choose the advice objectively perhaps mixed with a little of your gut feeling.

 

It's interesting to note that, during your last break-up, her crying did have an effect on you - although it should be noted that you made a snap breakup decision, which deep down you probably really didn't mean. I think you were simply offended by what you perceived as her lack of trust in you.

 

Regardless, her tears did no harm and didn't push you away, but appear to have drawn you closer. She didn't give that "space" that common wisdom says a dumper needs.

 

Now I must again stress that I'm not advocating that any dumpee uses this "pleading strategy", I'm just simply interested in other exceptions to the rule. I must state that although I would take 'pleading' in a positive vein, the experience of others (and general psychology) suggests it would drive the dumper further away, and I think if in doubt always go NC to avoid any damage.

 

I'm simply interested to see who else would not view this 'typical dumpee behaviour' negatively.

[HNR]

Based on you expressing several times how you feel neglected in relationships it's no wonder you enjoy the attention when you leave them.

 

In any case, I am CALM and I don't like tea.

 

You don't have to worry about me making an "idiot" of myself in front of my ex.

 

If I have one piece of advice, you should be a little bit more considerate and have a little more tact of those people on HERE who have, or are making "idiots" of themselves in front of their ex's the way your ex's seem to have done with you in the past, which you for some reason enjoyed.

 

Most people don't DUMP someone in hopes that the person they dumped will come running after them. Again, it seems like your reason for leaving is to precisely get that "11 year old" reaction .

 

Cheers

 

Calm down, Hope, you are getting excitable again and jumping to all sorts wild assumptions like you have in your posts on other threads as well as this one

 

You are getting me mixed up with someone else: I have not expressed several times that I felt neglected and thereforee dumped my partner. It happened twice and I have three relationships spanning 24 years. Hello? Please pay attention.

 

My ex has not made a fool of himself and I have not gloated over the pleading he did ONCE to reconcile with me when I felt neglected.

 

I certainly didn't not dump him in the hope that he would come grovelling back - I viewed the split as permanent, but his pleading persuaded me to give him another chance. I'm glad I did, because he did change

 

Also during our last split, he broke up with me because he was feeling neglected.

 

 

I have never accused anyone on here of making an idiot of themselves; where did you get that idea from??

 

I really think you are involved in too many threads/posts to keep up with what's going on. By not reading the facts you're making yourself look a tad ridiculous

 

 

Ps...if you are calm, why do you feel the need to pepper your posts with upper case words, which is considered shouting....?

[tin_tin]

Thankyou very much for this post....

 

She initially broke up on msn, (13th November) and i was a bit angry and very upset about that seeing as we were together 3 years.

 

Over the next few days, i told her it was killing me, and i let her know how upset i was and how hard it is for me......and told her how much i missed her.

She said she couldnt sleep, and could smell me on her pillow. She told me she hated life without me, and its only been 3 days.........and i said i hated it to.

 

Then she suggested we meet up in person (22nd November) She told me how she couldnt do this anymore, mainly due to wanting to pass her degree with flying colours, and try to focus 100% on that. I tried to make her see that we could work at it. But she stuck to her guns........i text her that evening. Then went quiet for a couple of days.

 

Thats when she sent me that "do u want me out of your life forever" text

 

But i clearly told her that its her that i wanted to be with, and i told her how i felt about her.

[catfeeder]

You know, I should stress here that in my 41 years I've only had three serious long term relationships spanning 24 years, so I've not had to speak in terms of "my ex ex ex ex", "my fourth ex before my last one" or "my ex of five relationships ago". I'm seriously in awe of those people in those circumstances; it sounds really emotionally exhausting to me. Are people really giving all of themselves in all those relationships, or are they only giving a part of themselves as they are "guarding" their hearts?

 

Great question. From my teens through my 20s I did the serial monogamy thing, leapfrogging from one 2 year gig to the next. I was insecure and a mess without a BF, so I didn't use discretion. In my case, it wasn't about a lack of investment as much as questioning the investment I made in a relationship that never should've happened in the first place.

 

I guess each served its purpose in my life, but I could have learned my lessons a lot quicker had I only owned a backbone. I became depressed in those relationships because I was unhappy after, say 6 months, but would hang in there for 2 years until I could figure out how to untangle myself. I didn't want the relationship anymore, but I still didn't know how to be alone. I think I was a late bloomer who remained excessively immature until my 30s. Not to mention, cruel.

[...]

Maybe it's my lack of experience of the whole "break-up, make-up" trauma which makes me more inclined (naively?) to throw my arms around a weeping regretful dumpee. However, I can see why their actions would annoy me if I had been detaching myself from the relationship for sometime and had my eye on someone else.........!

 

You've nailed it--the reason for the breakup means everything. If I had broken up because I felt neglected (which never occurred BTW, I always felt suffocated) and the neglector had seen the error of his ways, I might have been open to hearing what changes he intended to make--IF he had honored NC and given me some time to miss him. No sense in pleading with someone who's POd and stubborn. Cool off time is important, I think, in just about any dispute of any kind.

 

But in my case, I was not just done, I was overdone. All attempts to contact me afterwards felt like I was being stalked. Any time I caved and permitted conversation I'd feel manipulated, and I'd resent the guy more. The only way I could envision releasing that dismal feeling was to be permitted months of NC, but even then, I'd already been worked beyond any ability to feel fond of the guy, much less respect him again.

 

Good conversation, and thanks!

Cat

[HNR]

I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. Thanks for making the details known.

 

I'm no expert, but I think you need to have a long, frank discussion with her. She sounds as if the stress of her course is making her confused and she may be (mistakenly?) feeling that the relationship is adding to her problems. Be honest, what pressures do you think your relationship puts upon her? Also, the way you describe her, it would appear that she is the one that craves attention, not you. I agree that she is giving you mixed signals.

 

I would tell her that you have no wish to ignore her, but the break up has devastated you and though you need to limit or go NC with her in order to heal, it is your dearest wish to work through the issues because you don't want to break up with her. Ask her specifically what pressures this relationship puts upon her and see whether you can lessen or eliminate them.

 

If she continues to be insistent, you may need to go full NC in order to heal. However, I would get a consensus from other posters on these boards before taking that step.

 

Regardless of the outcome of your talk, I think you must put yourself first, as you could find her (the way she is right now) emotionally draining.....

[HNR]

Great question. From my teens through my 20s I did the serial monogamy thing, leapfrogging from one 2 year gig to the next. I was insecure and a mess without a BF, so I didn't use discretion. In my case, it wasn't about a lack of investment as much as questioning the investment I made in a relationship that never should've happened in the first place.

 

I guess each served its purpose in my life, but I could have learned my lessons a lot quicker had I only owned a backbone. I became depressed in those relationships because I was unhappy after, say 6 months, but would hang in there for 2 years until I could figure out how to untangle myself. I didn't want the relationship anymore, but I still didn't know how to be alone. I think I was a late bloomer who remained excessively immature until my 30s. Not to mention, cruel.

[...]

 

So would you agree that you were fully invested sometime during the first 6 months before you started emotionally checking out? Where you able to not become cynical/guarded and commit your *all* again say after the fourth time? I don't want to sound judgmental. I'm just interested, because as much as I'd like another long term relationship at some point, I think I'll be subconsciously guarded....

 

You've nailed it--the reason for the breakup means everything. If I had broken up because I felt neglected (which never occurred BTW, I always felt suffocated) and the neglector had seen the error of his ways, I might have been open to hearing what changes he intended to make--IF he had honored NC and given me some time to miss him. No sense in pleading with someone who's POd and stubborn. Cool off time is important, I think, in just about any dispute of any kind.

 

But in my case, I was not just done, I was overdone. All attempts to contact me afterwards felt like I was being stalked. Any time I caved and permitted conversation I'd feel manipulated, and I'd resent the guy more. The only way I could envision releasing that dismal feeling was to be permitted months of NC, but even then, I'd already been worked beyond any ability to feel fond of the guy, much less respect him again.

 

I can see why you wouldn't have anything to do with someone who was suffocating you! Being in your face with constant communication AFTER you split with them for being clingly would reinforce your decision..........!

[catfeeder]

So would you agree that you were fully invested sometime during the first 6 months before you started emotionally checking out?

Yep, I threw myself into relationships fully instead of taking reasonable time to get to know the person well. I never used restraint to decide whether the relationship warranted that kind of immersion. Big mistake. HUge.

 

Where you able to not become cynical/guarded and commit your *all* again say after the fourth time?

Sure, I kept repeating the same mistake until I matured enough to stop grabbing relationships to rescue me from being alone. I had been expecting that each 'wrong' relationship must necessarily lead me to the right one next time. It didn't occur to me that my lack of discretion could have anything to do with the failures.

 

I don't want to sound judgmental. I'm just interested, because as much as I'd like another long term relationship at some point, I think I'll be subconsciously guarded....

 

Guarded is a good thing, initially--that's the ingredient I was missing. Throwing myself into illusions that "This Must be The One," is what got me into trouble, and it wasted years of my life that I can never get back. If I had been smart, I would've moved more slowly and cautiously--and then I'd have avoided half the time I spent in groaner relationships.

 

That isn't cynical, it's lessons learned. I apply that idea to plain ol' dating now, learning how not to spend too much time with men in whom I have no interest. Either it's there, or it's not. Some dates deserve benefit of the doubt, while others are a slam-dunk 'no way'. It's liberating--no more pretzels to please, and no trying to contort wrong matches into something acceptable.

 

I can see why you wouldn't have anything to do with someone who was suffocating you! Being in your face with constant communication AFTER you split with them for being clingly would reinforce your decision..........!

 

Yes, and this is why I advocate NC immediately after a breakup, whether you 'want' it or not. Had I felt able to just cool off and breathe some air without need to explain myself or estimate how long I'll need without contact or defend (and re-defend and re-defend) against assumptions that there must be someone else, maybe I would sound kinder about this. But I'm crystal clear what harassment feels like--and it's exactly what dumpees impose when they won't drop contact. It kills all chances unless the dumper gets too exhausted to fight for space anymore--but then the days of that relationship are only numbered, and they're hell on earth. That's not a 'win'.

 

My best,

Cat

[HNR]

Thanks for your answers, Catfeeder! They are a great help!

 

I must say I have started becoming more discerning and less tolerant than I was when I was younger. For example, I was quite interested in one guy until he spoke about being so angry with his ex, he put his fist through a window(!) and another who seem to question my honesty when I was too ill to go to the movies one night. Yet a third started calling me "Babes" waaaay to early and started talking about moving in to my house. These things wouldn't have bothered me so much ten years ago, but now it's like "one strike and your out"!

 

I like the saying I read somewhere on these boards "people don't put up walls to keep others out, but to see who cares enough to break them down". I think this pretty much sums me up. It took my ex a full 14 months to crack me - I wasn't purposely being resistant or playing hard go get - I really didn't want it initially, but his perseverance along with his admirable qualities was what made him successful. I fell in love with him long before I was intimate with him, and I think that foundation made for a long lasting relationship.....