Why the bad boy?

[KG]

50 years old here...I've been the nice guy for two years....I'm the " go to guy", we have a ton of fun.

 

Enter the " bad boy"...no responsibilities. Just get laid.

 

Why do I get pushed to the side for having emotions, when some other guy who has none gets her love?

Can anyone explain this to me?

[NewPhillyGuy]

50 years old here...I've been the nice guy for two years....I'm the " go to guy", we have a ton of fun.

 

Enter the " bad boy"...no responsibilities. Just get laid.

 

Why do I get pushed to the side for having emotions, when some other guy who has none gets her love?

Can anyone explain this to me?

 

Couple of different reasons why this could be. Would want to better understand what was going on in your relationship.

[littlestar]

Different women want different things. Perhaps the ones you're meeting arent wanting commitment, they just want to hang out with a bad boy.

[Clarity]

She wasn't the one for you - look at the choices she makes, is that what you want?

[hmdreamer7]

Sometimes women love the 'bad boy' not because they're bad per se, but because they have a lot of confidence. That's not to say good guys aren't confident... but high confidence in one's self can be really attractive to some women, even if it seems pushy or arrogant.

 

But don't give up hope, there's tons of women who love the 'good guy!' You just need to keep being yourself and keep looking.

[lifeiscash]

Women aren't attracted to overly nice guys. Women are attracted to confident men. Men who visualize that it is her benefit that she is part of their lives. The bad boy can be overly cocky and show selfish behaviors. He doesn't look for approval of women in how he acts and he stands up for himself in situations where he is wronged. He is no pushover and looks at his own needs first, not another person.

 

It's not that women don't like nice guys, they just don't like guys being nice all the freaking time, mostly first meeting them. What is the real agenda of being a nice guy? Sure you might get some sort of satisfaction in knowing your doing the right thing, but women see it as some sort of compensation. In other words being nice, chasing women, giving too many compliments, calling all the time, asking how she is feeling or what she is thinking all the time, buying her things for approval, and other behaviors push women away because your implying that you "have to" do all these fake nice behaviors just to get what you really want.

 

Nice guys really aren't nice at all if you look at all. They are only being nice because they are trying to find approval from the women instead of looking within themselves. Nice guys are boring, predictable, lame, and the list never ends. It's saying, "I'm going to be extra nice for this girl and then maybe she will feel what I'm feeling, and since I don't have anything else to offer her, then possible she will ALLOW me a chance". (That almost made me varmit).

 

Instead I choose the Bad Boy/Player/Alpha Male persona. I don't abuse women, I don't cuss them out, I don't go out of my way to abuse women emotional. I just look out for my own interest first, let them realize I have something going for myself and that she can BENEFIT by being part of my life.

 

My 2 Cents, I can go forever...

[SoMuchLove]

Lifeiscash couldn't be more right.

[Imprecision]

Most explanations of "nice guy" vs. "bad boy" say that "nice guys" are approval-seeking, or that "nice guys" lack confidence. These explanations are helpful.

 

However, to see the whole truth, you must see through the woman's perspective.

 

Facts

 

In general, women have better social intuition than men. They have a better grasp of nuances and subtleties. They are trickier. They have more cunning.

 

Women are the weaker sex. They compensate for their weakness using cunning.

 

Men impose their will on the world directly. If a man wants something, he goes for it. Women impose their will on the world indirectly. She must first master her social environment and its many complex ties of love and hate, in order to influence others to carry out her will.

 

For instance, a man who wants dinner looks into his wallet to see if he has enough money.

 

A woman who wants dinner can do the same. Or, she can make a list of men who like her, and then choose the most promising candidate.

 

The woman's perspective

 

From a woman's perspective, the "nice guy" is kinda dumb. He's like a boy. He is predictable. He is easily manipulated. He is also safe. He might have the highest IQ in the world, but a woman doesn't care about that.

 

When a woman looks at a man, she instinctually evaluates what he can do for her. Can he buy her dinner? Can he do her homework? Will he stick around for his kids? etc.

 

The "bad boy," however, cannot be manipulated. That's why he's so attractive.

 

Women are greedy

 

Women are greedy, just like men. I have many female friends, and I have learnt a lot from their stories. The following is typical:

 

Girl has two prospects - "nice guy" vs. "bad boy." The "bad boy" only wants sex, and he's explicit about this. The "nice guy" is doing the "friends" approach. Girl asks me what she should do.

 

I say: Date them both! When you're done with the "bad boy," the "nice guy" will have fallen in love with you. At that point, you can decide whether you want to keep him.

 

Girl takes my advice. She ditches the nice guy in the end.

 

In the above example, the "nice guy" is just too easy. From the girl's perspective, predictable + undemanding = dumb.

 

Even if the "nice guy" and the "bad boy" started out at equal value, the girl doesn't take the "nice guy" as seriously - She can always come back for him later. The "bad boy" is "take it or leave it," so he presents greater urgency. Plus, if you're too easy, then the girl will despise you.

 

If you give a woman an inch, she'll take it a mile. thereforee, you must always watch out for women's games. You must stand your ground. Women are constantly testing you to see how much they can use you. (Thus, "Women - can't live with them, can't live without them.)"

 

A woman sees your love as a weapon she can use against you - if you're too easy.

 

This is why you must always keep to your purpose and your passion. If you have purpose and passion, then women cannot manipulate you, because your purpose and passion take priority before women.

 

What kind of men are sexy? Men who cannot be controlled. If you notice in the epics, the men come when they want, and they leave when they want. Women have to stay at home. They have little strategies to keep their men at home a few days longer, but ultimately, the men leave when they have to leave (whether to raze enemy cities, fight dragons, or whatever).

 

If you read on this forum - women are obsessed with men who flirt and then don't call, or who sleep with them, and then run off for a few days.

 

The heroes of old are all like this.

 

As a man, you must be like the sun. You must be constant to your purpose. Don't let women manipulate you. This is really the only way to live life.

[Pegasus]

50 years old here...I've been the nice guy for two years....I'm the " go to guy", we have a ton of fun.

 

Enter the " bad boy"...no responsibilities. Just get laid.

 

Why do I get pushed to the side for having emotions, when some other guy who has none gets her love?

Can anyone explain this to me?

 

Look at link removed

[ghost69]

would you buy a video game that told you the ending? most people want a challenge. a lot of girls want a guy that they have to work for. they like the challenge. some girls just think they can change that guy.

 

it's not bad to have emotions and be a nice guy. just can't be a pushover kg.

[Karmageddon]

50 years old here...I've been the nice guy for two years....I'm the " go to guy", we have a ton of fun.

 

Enter the " bad boy"...no responsibilities. Just get laid.

 

Why do I get pushed to the side for having emotions, when some other guy who has none gets her love?

Can anyone explain this to me?

 

There could be a bunch of reasons, I will be blunt & don't mean to hurt your feelings at all

 

It could be that she for whatever reason, has only seen you as a friend.

 

Perhaps she would always feel second best to your wife. Its different to get involved with someone who has had a profound loss, then with someone who has "broken up". She was taken, it wasnt like it wasn't working & you moved on. She would know everyday that you would choose your old life over her hands down in a heart beat. Those are tough shoes to fill.

 

Maybe this guy is just "new", & time will tell.

 

Maybe she never even thought that you wanted to date her.

 

There are lots of things it could really be, but don't stop being a nice guy, but don't get taken advantage of either. I know its weird to be back in the dating pool after so long & it is going to take some getting used to. There are lots of ups and downs, seems to be the rollercoaster ride that many of us are on after having been in very long term relationships.

[kuiks8]

women are greedy?!??! you are so offensive imprecision... you come from this expert position that you have no right taking and you're soo ridiculously offensive with your generalizations...

[grymoire]

Honestly is it this complicated?!?!?

 

IMO if a girl is attracted to you and likes you she will be with you. Period. It does not matter if you are a nice boy or a bad boy. I am not sure how many women out there would be constantly testing their men to see how much they can use them as opposed to enjoying the relationship.

[Imprecision]

women are greedy?!??! you are so offensive imprecision... you come from this expert position that you have no right taking and you're soo ridiculously offensive with your generalizations...

 

It's human nature. Men have the same problem. We live in a world of scarcity. Time, especially, is scarce. thereforee, to succeed in life, we must decide between what we want and what we can discard. (E.g. If a guy tries to learn to many things, he never masters any one thing. It's better to focus on one subject.)

 

Women are the same. Let's say a girl has two choices - a nice guy and a jerk. She can't decide between them. (Women hate decisions - they generally postpone decisions, until the outside world makes their decisions for them.) What's her logical option?

 

Her logical option is to date them both. To do that, she will string the nice guy along, meanwhile sleeping with the jerk on the side. If I were a girl, I would do the same thing.

 

The only exception is if a girl is in love with a guy. Usually, when a girl is in love, she becomes a one-man girl. Then, other men no longer appeal to her.

 

With a nice guy, a woman can always come back for him later. There's no scarcity. With a jerk, it's "now or never." Scarcity dramatically increases his value.

 

The other factor is that jerks understand women. Nice guys don't understand women. A nice guy is like a naive tourist getting swindled at the flea market. He pays twenty bucks for something worth maybe only two bucks. A jerk, however, knows how to bargain. He understands how much each item is worth. He understands the traders' language. thereforee, he never pays more than he has to.

[midnightrambler]

i may agree with this analysis

[servedcold]

I'm about ready for the terms "nice guy" and "bad boy" to go out of common usage. No one knows what they mean, witness humpteen jillion threads here on ENA attempting to define them to no avail.

[Imprecision]

Aside from my two abovementioned factors, there's a third factor:

 

Women enjoy sex - that's true. However, women will not initiate sex with you.

 

A guy must take the lead - he must lead the girl into sex. This is because even if a girl is attracted to you, she has a million reasons why she should not have sex with you. For one thing, she faces social censure. Usually, however, she faces a far bigger obstacle - the fear of regret. When a girl sleeps with a guy, she becomes attached to him. If he suddenly leaves after she sleeps with him, she'll feel bad. thereforee, to protect herself emotionally, a girl often abstains from sex.

 

A nice guy does not expect sex from women. He waits for the woman to give him sex freely. This will never happen. Even if the girl likes you a bit in the beginning, she won't have sex with you if you don't expect it.

 

A jerk expects sex from women. He methodically leads the girl through each stage of sexual escalation. The girl becomes increasingly turned on. Eventually, sex happens.

 

Addition

 

This also explains the mystery of "turned on." Men are turned on by beautiful women. However, women are turned on when men lead them through the stages of sexual escalation. It may be said that men cause women to be turned on - men being the active actors, women being the passive participants.

[laisla]

Women enjoy sex - that's true. However, women will not initiate sex with you.

 

hahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

 

 

 

haaaaaaaaaahahahah

[Pegasus]

Women enjoy sex - that's true. However, women will not initiate sex with you.

 

Maybe with you they won't....but last time a woman initiated sex with me was this morning.....

[Imprecision]

Maybe with you they won't....but last time a woman initiated sex with me was this morning.....

 

Well, I presume that you slept with her previously (since you say "this morning.") This is not what I meant by "initiate sex." By "initiate sex," I refer to the first time two people have sex.

 

There are exceptions to every generalisation. But accross the vast majority of cases I have seen, the man initiates sex.

 

Women give sex to men in exchange for emotional commitment. thereforee, if a guy dumps a girl after sex, the girl feels tricked. She feels that she gave him her most valued possession, but he did not return the affection she wanted. (You can find evidences on numerous posts on this forum.)

 

Some people deny this. I don't doubt that there are isolated incidents where women give sex to men freely. But to suggest that a guy can remain passive yet get sex consistently - simply by being hot enough - this seems like pure subjectivism and wishful fantasy.

 

Addition My experience

 

Actually, now that I think of it - I probably have several experiences of girls initiating sex with me, depending on how you define "initiating sex."

 

Once, I let a girl sleepover, but in a separate bedroom - my parents being away at the time. Around midnight, she came into my room. She said she preferred sleeping in my bed. Furthermore, she said that she had a habit of sleeping naked.

 

At the time, I was absent-minded enough not to catch her drift. So I just let her sleep in my bed, while I rolled over to the other side to sleep. Eventually, we did have sex, however.

 

But even in this case - when she first came to my house, I told her to sleep in my room. She pretended to be astonished at my suggestion - "Of course not! That's so inappropriate!" You see, even when a woman really likes you, she has to pretend to dislike you a bit, just so that you don't think she's easy.

 

On a different note, I personally find that girls who pretend to dislike me in the beginning tend to like me most in the end. If a girl comes on too strong - first of all, I am turned off; second, they tend to be players who flirt with everyone. It's good that they're players, but in their eyes, my game is too easy.

 

Addition 2 Proof 2

 

Another proof is that numerous women complain that their dates don't make a move or that they move too slowly. (As you can see on this forum.)

 

If women can generally initiate sex, then these women would initiate sex with their dates. Then it would not matter if their dates move slowly.

 

Addition 3 Not concerned with morality

 

I don't understand why people find it necessary to define "nice guy" and "jerks" in moral terms. For instance, someone would complain that "nice guys" finish last. Immediately, another person would say that "nice guys" aren't really "nice guys" in the first place. Then, he would define what he means by "nice guy": usually, a guy who holds contemporary social morals (just like the "nice guy"), but with the crucial addition of confidence.

 

Personally, I don't believe in "confidence." In reality, confidence has many aspects. For instance, a doctor might have confidence on a medical exam, but he might lack confidence on a math exam. Confidence varies with each context.

 

I don't deny that there's a "general confidence" - e.g. when your life is going well, you're more confident overall. Nevertheless, I have many friends who are very confident - because of accomplishments at work, for instance. But they cannot get girls.

 

Why is that? The reason is that when girls talk about "confidence," they're actually talking about the appearance of "confidence," not "confidence" itself.

 

Most dating gurus teach something like, "Rest assured! You can still be a good guy. My instructions are very moral. I'll just teach you to change your presentation a bit."

 

Now, while this is helpful for many people - I simply cannot identify with this overriding concern with morality. I never could. Maybe I read too much Sartre and Nietzsche in high-school.

 

(For me, morality is simple: If you're good to me, I'm good to you. My values are simple, too: I'm sincere with and loyal to my friends.)

 

I love romance. I love women, too. (I often say that my childhood was spent between the pages of romance novels and beneath the skirts of older girls.) Because I love women, I feel no need to justify my observations in moral terms. Women think in patterns. Courtship dances in rhythm. When a man understands patterns and rhythm, women are no longer mysterious. There's a reason why women act one way but not another way. As God built women, so are women. It's no avail complaining about how women should be (but are not). It is better to appreciate quietly every aspect of women.

[In Limbo]

In these times , no girl is looking for security or predictbility.All are thrill seekers.

Hence the guy who oozes confidence,does things his way & always leads would win hands down.Its important to not be sucked into the love yous and the love you nots.

Just look to have a fun time & keep your pride intact with a 'devil may care' attitude.

 

Tease them, play around , don't give in..& the girls will follow.

Agree with Imprecision!!

[tmp0620]

It's a lot easier for women to like dumb guys who appear to have no feelings just like it's easier for guys to like stupid hot chicks. I'm unsuccessful but even I know that that's not always the case. There are a lot of women who don't have emotional issues and don't go for stupid men. If they don't go for you it's probably not about your looks unless you're extremely unattractive, and even those guys have a better chance than they might think.

[ColdHands...]

Wow Imprecision...you're finally starting to speak some sense While most of your content is grossly generalised and not applicable to all women, there is an underlying element of truth. Well played!

[tmp0620]

Wow Imprecision...you're finally starting to speak some sense While most of your content is grossly generalised and not applicable to all women, there is an underlying element of truth. Well played!

 

Honestly, I read his posts, and for the most part they seem pretty logical, but women aren't that black and white. Mostly the problem is that guys like the girls who like the bad boys.

 

And for the most part they're both lacking upstairs. Those girls like those guys for unthought-out reasons and the guys like those girls because they're hott. It's simple and it's unsuccessful. Find a 'hott, smart' girl or a 'hott' smart guy and you're on the right track.

 

Those are the people who end up happy. It's rare.

[In Limbo]

Hey IronLion85!!

"Whenever I meet a beauty, I escape or hide in a corner. Not that I think they are intimidating, but they attract horrible people. Some guys really do their utmost to make these beautiful women believe how good they are..." - Thom Yorke

When did Thom mention this??In their dvd??