I'm destroyed...

[Seymore]

As some of you know, I've been having troubles with my girlfriend of 15 months. She has an anger problem for one, and she's teased me with sex among other things. She has a habit of having an attitude against me and other for what she perceives is against her, like if somone does something she can't, etc., she takes it personal. Her blowups can equal the tantrum of a 5-year old child.

 

Last night we were going to see my family for Christmas eve. All day long she either had an attitude or was crying and wouldn't talk to me. She doesn't have much of a family, and what she has is dysfunctional. She cried and cried and would not speak at all or even look at me. I asked her what was wrong, tried to console her, but nothing. When we were getting ready, she was swearing, throwing stuff and kicking things because either her sister borrowed her jacket or something didn't fit right.

 

We got to my family's place and asked if she was ok. She didn't respond. I said "Is that a yes?" and she snapped at me. I said "Not tonight with the attitude, hon" and she walked off, just plain left me there. I spent 30 minutes looking for her in the freezing cold, and I guess her sister picked her up. She texted me an hour later saying she was ready to talk.

 

I went to her place after my family's celebration. We sat down and I told her that she has an anger problem, and that while I know she wants to get married, I can't see it because of her anger. If we have kids, is she going to be this way in front of them? She acts that way in front of her 2-year old nephew, so I saw it as a problem. She says that I knew she had an anger problem when I met her and why did I think she would change. She also said that fine, she'll go to anger managment and it won't work. She compared it to when I blew up and pushed her last weekend (again, pushing her was totally not like me and it showed me that there was a problem with us), and said that she can't help that she blows up or has an attitude with me either. I told her that since she compared it to pushing her (which she said if it happens again, she'll walk), that it's only fair I make the same statement - if she blows up at me or throws an unnecessary attitude my way, I'll walk. She said "then you know where the door is - bye." So I left. She said " * * * * * * * . Just like all the rest" and I closed the door.

 

As I was walking to my car, she texted me saying "I hate you". Then she wrote a long e-mail about how she hated our sex life (because I'd get upset when she'd tease me and get in a grumpy mood, so she felt she had to always follow through just to please me), how she hated what money does to me (I have none, and I keep worrying about it because I can barely pay my bills, partly because I pay for 99% of whatever we do, so any opportunity I have to keep my money I jump at), she hates how I make her feel, etc.

 

7 or 8 times later that night, she texted me pleading to meet with her and fix things. I told her I needed at least a couple of days alone. She kept saying please, please, and that she'd go to counseling or anger management.

 

This morning I realized that she can't go to anger management for me, because that would build resentment. I told her that it's just not working and it's become a cycle. She apologizes, things are fine for 2-3 weeks, then another attitude problem. I told her that hate has no place in a relationship, and she said she didn't mean that she hated me, just how I make her feel. I said there's no difference. I asked her to get her things and cat from my place and leave the keys on the table while I stay with my parents.

 

She keeps texting me, pleading to listen to her, saying she wants to change for herself and me. She keeps making it so hard, and told me I said she could have one more chance, which I didn't. She said she went to a psychologist before for the same reason and she believes that should be proof that she wants to change. Well, she quit seeing the psychologist a year ago, saying it didn't help. I texted her "It's over. I'm sorry" and she pleaded more for another chance. I texted her "Goodbye (her name)" and left the phone in my car.

 

I'm so helpless. We've spent so much time together and done so many things together, but she won't let me go. Part of me wants to stay, but I can't believe things will change because we've had heart-to-hearts 3 or 4 times when it got seriously bad in the last year, and things went back to how they were. Any time I wanted to sit down and talk before she'd say it was useless and that we have way too many issues for such a young couple. But now she wants to talk.

 

What do I do....I'm so lost...just when I start to think I'm getting back to my old life again, she texts or e-mails. It's so hard...

[Red_flower]

Hello there,

 

I sympathise with your situation and i have been in the same position, although it wasnt a sexual relationship, it was very close friendship bodering on relationship and i went through the exact same thing.

 

Your gf sounds just like my friend i reffered to above, she knew she could get away with treating you bad so she does it AND wants YOU to come running back to her because she believes that YOU are the one who gets her in that emotional state.

 

The kicking around and throwing around is in one word, childish, manipulative behaviour and you are right to be concerned about having kids with someone who acts like that.

 

Have you thought of the idea that she is controlling ? From what ive read, she used her anger to manipulate you, knowing the depth of your feelings for her.

Another question you have to ask yourself is di she add to you as a person or did she take away from you? Im sure you know the answer to that one.

 

Her anger is nothing to do with you, if it were another person, another bf, she would treat him the same way.

 

As they say, you cant change others, the only person you can change is you.

Its hard, im in the same boat as you, and I understand how hard it is having to detatch from someone you have so much history with.

Well done for standing up for yourself! x

[Seymore]

She helped to make me a better person in that she showed me how to overcome my fear of rollercoasters, and I actually broke out of the little town I live in to see the U.S. on a road trip with her. There are other things like that where she's made me a better person. But for me to react physically, that tells me right there that it's a problem. I am the most laid back person anyone who knows me knows, and for me to do that...well, there's a problem, because it's not me, like I said.

 

But she won't stop texting me and move on. I said goodbye. If she keeps texting me should I just not respond? I have things in my life I want to do to help me overcome this experience. I also feel bad that Christmas has always been her favorite holiday, but I broke up with her the day before. I feel guilty in a way. I told my father that I didn't know what to do before I told her it was over - he said that he could see that I knew what to do, I just had a hard time coming to grips with it. He said I didn't dump her - she dumped me a long time ago and neither of us realized it.

[keith515]

I want to commend you for having that talk with her. You let her know exactly how you feel. You stated your honest concerns. Something I never did because of fear of the wrath of my ex.

 

Her reaction: "you knew I had a problem, so why would I change?" She's saying she is who she is and nothing will be different. A very defensive attitude.

 

So then when you acquiesce to her by agreeing that you accept that what you did was wrong when you pushed her. Yet when you make the same comment to leave if she throws an attitude, how does she react? She bassically said get the hell out of my life. As if she has the right to kick you out but if you try to stand up for yourself, she'll leave. (You can't stand up for yourself. She has the power. How dare you try to make demands on her.

It's unfair. So then when you do what she said, she gets upset.

 

So what do you do? Give her a second chance? I find that to be an impossibility. If you did, you would be waiting for her to screw up. And what would constitute an attitude? Would she have to be completely civil all the time?

 

She does seem controlling. I have a hard time understanding why someone acts the way they do, and they know it hurts people, and knows what the end result will be and yet does nothing about it. It's like they have this belief that "this is who I am and I cannot change it." I don't believe that but if that's what she believes, what can you do?

 

It also makes me upset that she basically told you to leave and and when you do it, she can't accept the fact that you're not with her. What did she expect?

[Seymore]

First of all, thank you, keith. Partly because of my conversations with you, I got the strength to end it.

 

She texted me again and left a voicemail saying that she didn't want it to end like sthis and just wants to meet to talk and say goodbye if nothing else. To me though, she said goodbye literally last night when I said that since she told me she'd walk if I pushed her, I'll walk if she comes down on me again, so she had her chance and that to me was goodbye. I said goodbye in my text as well, so I feel that is goodbye. That plus the "I hate you". Nobody's ever said that to me. She's also called me an a-hole a few months ago when I told her that I didn't feel I should have to pay for her nephew's meal when we went out to eat. She put words in my mouth saying I resented him and that's why I didn't want to pay.

 

I also have a confession to make...I have posted about her under 2 other names, because I didn't want to hear people say "break up with her", although that's what people have been telling me for the last year. I figured if I created another screen name, they wouldn't judge her so harshly by reading my previous posts. I wanted so badly to protect her because I loved her so much, but I had so many problems with her.

 

I am staying with my parents this weekend instead of going home because I do not want to see her again, and want to give her the chance to get her stuff. I almost feel like a coward, but what was said was said, and I don't want to see her, one because she infuriates me now, and two because I don't want to risk a moment of weakness. I am with family and it is easing the healing process.

 

I wish the best for her. I really do. Usually I can't fathom an ex with another guy or moving on period - I want to be the only thing on their mind forever. But her - I wish she'd find peace and happiness, and eventually become the mother and wife she dreams to be. But she can't do that with me. I hope she uses our experience to better herself and find a GOOD guy. A guy who won't spoil her like I did (I ALWAYS brought her flowers, wrote her poems and gave her massages 2-3 times a week), but a guy who will give her what she needs - a strong, loving relationship. Because I couldn't do that. I feel like a failure - I thought I could be the one to change her life, so to speak. On our first date, she came out and told me everything - about previous abuse, her wrecked family life, etc. I always thought love could change that. But I guess love also has to let go in order to grow, if that makes any sense.

 

I think another thing I did wrong was to wait 2 years to ask her out - she waitressed at a restaurant I frequented. In those 2 years I built up this image of my dream woman, and in ways she was, but I was left sorely disappointed by her negativity, bitter attitude and anger issues. I need to live by the line "If you don't expect much, you'll never be disappointed".

 

And keith, I feared her wrath last night. I was terrified. But I kept saying "What's the worst that can happen? She won't murder me". It was very, VERY hard, still. And her saying "This is the way I am" and then "I can change" a day later...well, I've heard it plenty of times before. I gave her at least a half dozen second chances when she screwed up big time, and another dozen for smaller offenses.

 

I need to figure out how to give her the christmas gifts my family bought for her (or should I even follow through with this)? Like 2 Britney Spears tickets - I told my family that since they were expensive, I would give my christmas wish so that the money normally spent on me would be spent on tickets for her. So I have the tickets - do I give them to her?

 

Also, I read some posts about closure and contacting each other. Someone said that if the guy really loves the girl and knows she's hurt, he'll answer the phone. Well, every time she's called when we fought BEFORE and I answered, she'd manipulate me into taking her back. I don't see how talking any further can be a good thing here. Is this an exception? I love her and I know she's hurt, but no good can come of this, especially after all the things that were said last night and this morning. She just keeps calling...and just sent me an e-mail:

 

"I understand you aren’t willing to talk to me. But I hope that after the past 15 months, you will at least be willing to listen to what I have to say.

 

This past week has been a complete whirlwind. I don’t fully understand how we went from a romantic dinner and passionate night on Saturday to breaking up in a horrible manner on Wednesday. I do know that the blame lies squarely on my shoulders. Wednesday I acted completely and totally unacceptably towards you. I was upset and hurting and couldn’t find a way to express these feelings to you. Instead, I took it out on an innocent store clerk, items around my house, and worst of all, you. For this I truly am sorry.

 

I know when I get upset, 90% of the time I don’t express these feelings in the best manner. I yell, I curse, I throw things, I act out. While I knew these actions affected you, I falsely assumed that my thoughts and feelings weren’t getting to you. I did not realize the extent of the damage of my actions. Clearly, I still need to work on things within myself so that I don’t push away those who matter the most to me. While I was not carefully considering this last night, I was just reacting to what was being said against me, I now see after some reflection that you were right and I do need to take care of this – for myself as well as my relationships with others.

 

Regardless, I know you already know all of this. What you might not understand is what was wrong yesterday.

 

You know that I have my issues with family. I’ve always loved Christmas but for some reason, at WalMart yesterday it just started to hit me - that I don’t really have a family. That, in the end, I really am all alone. My mom and brothers haven’t ever been around. My aunt and uncle are states away. My sister has her own family and obligations. Yes, I had you. But you had your family. You mom, dad, brother, grandma, aunt… you will never be alone. Then I was starting to feel like you were having second thoughts about us. I guess in the back of my mind I knew it was my fault but I didn’t fully acknowledge and accept that this could be true. I was getting depressed that no matter how much I wanted it, I couldn’t really get into the Christmas feeling. Upset that even though I tried to look forward to it, I was jealous of your family and how close you all are and hurt that I don’t have that. Yes, I was self-pitying. But that was how I felt. I didn’t know how to get you to understand that because you have everything I’ve ever wanted when it comes to family.

 

So, instead of creating new holiday traditions and making the best of what I had, I pushed away the one thing that meant the most to me over all the rest of it. And I’m afraid that I’ve truly lost you forever. I shouldn't have left. I shouldn't have acted out. I should have leaned on you. But it's too late to do that now.

 

(my name), you are more than my boyfriend. You are my best friend, my confidant, my support, my reason, my stability, my sanity. If I try to erase every part of my life that includes you, I find that it’s not much of a life at all. It’s shattered and incomplete without you to share it with. When I reflect on the past 15 months, I realize how much growth occurred, how much I learned from and shared with you. I for one truly don’t want to throw that all away.

 

I know that you are hurting right now. I am hurting, too. I know this is a lot for you. It’s more than you should be expected to handle. But I love you. I love you. And I know you love me, too. I know that we can work this out together. I know that we were meant to be together. You are the one for me. We don’t have to talk about marriage or kids or living together or anything in the future. But I am asking you to please come back to me and let’s focus on ourselves as individuals and each other as a couple - on the right now, on the good, on the laughter and the happy. Please let’s try and make this work. Those heart to hearts weren’t pointless. Each one taught me something. I know that in order to make this work I need to focus on many of my flaws and work to correct them. That is something I want to do. I want to become a better person. I want to feel better. I don’t want to be hurt or sad or angry anymore.

 

I don’t hate anything about our relationship except the fact that I am constantly breaking it. Those words were said out of frustration and hurt.

 

Like I said before, I was in counseling before you came into my life for this reason. I thought I had had enough and I was “all better”. It’s hard to believe that there is something wrong with me that needs counseling and assistance but I realize it now and I am willing to obtain the help I need.

 

Will you please meet with me so we can talk. I understand that this is the edge. But I refuse to believe that this is the end. Things are so great when we aren’t fighting. I truly believe that if we work to mend this, we can be happy and reduce the fighting to a minimum. We can both be happy and feel good about ourselves and each other. I can’t promise that I will never get upset like this again. But I can promise that I will try harder than I have ever tried at anything before. I can promise to put forth every effort to maintain my anger and work it out in an effective and healthy manner. I can promise to realize that my actions affect those around me and that acting out harshly means I risk losing what I most cherish – you.

 

All I am asking for is the chance to try this one more time. I know that this can work. I know it can. I also know that it will take time. Please come talk to me or let me meet you somewhere so we can talk. It doesn’t have to be today. It can be tomorrow, or the next day. We both need time to think and internalize all that has happened over the past few days, weeks and months. We can get along without forcing it. We were meant to be – in this life. We are different, this is true. But it is also what makes us so good together. Think about all those great times. Those times when we did things together that we never thought we could. That is the essense of us. This is just a big wall we can knock down, break apart and move on together to get us back to where we need to be. It will take a lot of effort on my part – effort I am more than willing to put forward. I’m done blaming and pointing fingers. I’m done acting like a child. I’m done running away. I’m done taking it out on others.

[keith515]

First of all, thank you, keith. Partly because of my conversations with you, I got the strength to end it.

I'm glad to be of some help. That makes me feel better.

 

 

Ill write more in a bit but my initial reaction is "wow, what could you do?"

 

She sounds sincere but I would be very hesitant. She seems to be aware of her shortcomings but I could see you (as I would) try to build her up so she doesn't feel bad. I don't believe in tearing yourself down or others in building them up. Maybe it works in the Marines but not in a relationship.

 

Part of me also thinks that she can't handle seeing you with your family. She may want it but it makes her feel bad about herself. I thought that's what my ex thought. She just can't handle dating someone who seems to have such a "normal" life. I remember one time she wrote that she thinks she dated crazy guys because it makes her feel more normal.

 

Again, I believe, if you do think very similar as I do, you would want to give her a second chance. She seems like she is determined to make it work and she really wants you. But this line concerns me:

 

I can’t promise that I will never get upset like this again. But I can promise that I will try harder than I have ever tried at anything before. I can promise to put forth every effort to maintain my anger and work it out in an effective and healthy manner.

While I could appreciate her candor, it still leaves a door open for her to react inappropriately. I'm not sure if you would be able to handle it. I don't think she is ready to be in a relationship unless it's an abusive one.

 

While I knew these actions affected you, I falsely assumed that my thoughts and feelings weren’t getting to you. I did not realize the extent of the damage of my actions.

This passage also concerns me. She seems to have a boundary problem. I just comprehend how she could say the things she said and not understand how damaging they are. In addition, I'm willing to be she has had many harsh things said to her. You would think that the person who experienced abuse on many levels would be more sensitive to how they treat others because they know how damaging words can be. But that doesn't seem to be the case. It's as if they know it's wrong but that's all they've ever seen. They don't know any better. But she does. Is there any kind of self-restraint?

 

I wanted so badly to protect her because I loved her so much, but I had so many problems with her.

I did the same thing with my family. I didn't want them to know how much of a witch she could be.

 

I wish she'd find peace and happiness, and eventually become the mother and wife she dreams to be. But she can't do that with me.

As much she would want to be those things for you, I have a hard time believing that she could with you. She wants to because of how she sees you but I just don't see how it's possible.

 

And her saying "This is the way I am" and then "I can change" a day later...well, I've heard it plenty of times before. I gave her at least a half dozen second chances when she screwed up big time, and another dozen for smaller offenses.

Despite how sincere she sounded in the email, what you wrote here would make me think, what difference does it make? She probably was sincere and believed at the moment, she will do what intends to do. But until she learns to control herself, why would she be any different? Before you decided to accept her with open arms, I would be very hesitant until I saw some form of progress. It would be VERY RISKY getting back with her. You could be setting yourself up for a major disaster.

 

I need to figure out how to give her the christmas gifts my family bought for her (or should I even follow through with this)? Like 2 Britney Spears tickets - I told my family that since they were expensive, I would give my christmas wish so that the money normally spent on me would be spent on tickets for her. So I have the tickets - do I give them to her?

The sympathetic guy in me would say give her the tickets. But the guy who wants to maintain his dignity would say, forget it. I would try to sell them and use that money for myself. It would just come accross as you trying to smooth thing over as I'm sure you've done many times before.

 

A guy who won't spoil her like I did (I ALWAYS brought her flowers, wrote her poems and gave her massages 2-3 times a week), but a guy who will give her what she needs - a strong, loving relationship. Because I couldn't do that. I feel like a failure - I thought I could be the one to change her life, so to speak. On our first date, she came out and told me everything - about previous abuse, her wrecked family life, etc. I always thought love could change that.

I spoiled my ex. I told her I had to stop. I just couldn't help myself. I was overcompensating for her past. It wasn't a conscious thing, it was like an urge I couldn't stop.

The idea that you could be the one to change her life, as I'm sure know is a faulty one. I'm thinking you mean you could be the one to show her what true love is and that she is lovable. You wanted to show her how a person should be treated. And she in turn would respond in kind. I used to believe, "you reap what you sow." But with my ex and yours, that didn't seem to be the case. In fact, it was like there was an inverse relationship of the two. Treat them worse, and you'll get treated better.

 

But I guess love also has to let go in order to grow, if that makes any sense.

My take on that is you can't force it. It has to grow naturally. But if one person has a hard time letting go to feel love, it won't happen. My take on her and my ex, is they want these things. They see things that they desire. But in order to do that, they have to let go. They have to show their vulnerable side and expose themselves. It's about trust. If all their loved ones, hurt them, how could they trust again? I thought if I really made an effort to show I was trustworthy, she would learn to trust me. But it can't be easy.

 

That's all I have for now. I'll probably add more later. That email was intense.

[Seymore]

Well, I wrote an e-mail back, but I haven't sent it. Input would be appreciated.

 

I've listened. I knew what the issue was yesterday. I know that the fact that I have a close family has been an issue for you even further back than the holidays. I cannot imagine what it's like for you and your family, so I can't say I totally understand and be honest at the same time.

 

You had told me numerous times that your previous psychologist was a waste of time, not that you thought you were better. I am not only hurt because of what I had to do, but because I have had to deal with the anger and attitude for over a year. It's worn me out. It's transforming me. And if things didn't change, which by past examples seems the safe bet, it would get worse, and who knows - what...I'd hit you? I DON'T WANT THAT. I'd begun to feel I couldn't talk to you if I had an issue, because it would get turned around and thrown back, and somehow I'd wind up apologizing for how I felt. I have this resentment built up for so long that I began to think of you differently than I did before. And again, you'd say "What's wrong", and I would be afraid to say anything because you'd get mad, take it personal or turn it around. That's totally one-sided. Our relationship was damaged. I said months back that the attitude chips away at our relationship, but it kept on, and the relationship cannot be put back together. I didn't feel wholly respected or like my say held any water with you. I had to hold back. You gave me ultimatums regarding my family - at first you told me you didn't like that I go to them for advice. They're my family, that's what they're here for. If I went to see them more than twice during the week, you'd say "You're seeing them again?" as if it were some sort of competition between you and them. I'd spend most of my week and almost all of my weekend with you, but it just didn't seem like enough. Well, my family is my family. They have never spoken ill of me or been rude or nasty to me. They have always been there for me. I'm sorry that you don't feel your family would come through the same (although your grandparents I truly believe would listen), but it's not your fault, and it's certainly not mine.

 

Our relationship was not healthy. Sure we did great things. But that time has passed. I had hope. I had hope the first time we sat down, the second time and every time we had a talk after that. But enough is enough.

 

I know you can't promise that you will never get upset like that again. You've said that numerous times before. I can't make you promise that, either. Unfortunately, that leaves the door wide open for it to happen again. And then what, the cycle continues? If I said I can't promise I won't push you again, would you want to risk that? It is never ok.

 

You said you wanted to at least say goodbye. Well I took you saying it to me last night as goodbye. I know you never thought it would be THE goodbye, but it was the last straw for me. I'm sorry, and I wish you the best of luck in the future. Please stop calling, texting and e-mailing me. Please move on. You can and you will. You are strong and I believe you can make great things of yourself. And in the event this makes me an * * * * * * * , I have to live with that. But one day I hope you understand.

[keith515]

There were many things I liked:

 

'm sorry that you don't feel your family would come through the same (although your grandparents I truly believe would listen), but it's not your fault, and it's certainly not mine.

Our relationship was not healthy. Sure we did great things. But that time has passed. I had hope. I had hope the first time we sat down, the second time and every time we had a talk after that. But enough is enough.

I know you can't promise that you will never get upset like that again. You've said that numerous times before. I can't make you promise that, either. Unfortunately, that leaves the door wide open for it to happen again. And then what, the cycle continues? If I said I can't promise I won't push you again, would you want to risk that? It is never ok.

 

I didn't like this:

And in the event this makes me an * * * * * * * , I have to live with that. But one day I hope you understand.

I don't think what your doing is wrong nor did I think you had a negative tone in the email. It sounds like to me you just reached a point where you couldn't take it anymore. And it's disconcerting that it took a break up for her to accept and realize that she needs to change. Why couldn't and didn't she change when she was with you because she was hurting you. It looks like now that she is getting hurt she is willing to change. See what I'm getting at? It sounds selfish. She'll change for herself but not if it hurts you.

Also, that line reminds me of something I would say to take on unnecessary blame.

 

I'd begun to feel I couldn't talk to you if I had an issue, because it would get turned around and thrown back, and somehow I'd wind up apologizing for how I felt. I have this resentment built up for so long that I began to think of you differently than I did before. And again, you'd say "What's wrong", and I would be afraid to say anything because you'd get mad, take it personal or turn it around. That's totally one-sided.

I've been in two relationships like that. It sucks! It eats you up and doesn't allow you to be yourself. That builds resentment and the result is a blow up of you pushing her.

 

The way you're describing the relationship and how it is now is it's like a vase that shattered into thousands of pieces. While logically, every piece could be put back together, the reality is it would take tremendous time, energy, and effort to put everything back together.

[Seymore]

Thanks, keith.

 

I'm falling apart. My family is coming over to my parents house now and I'm a mess. Why can't God give everyone a normal family? Why does my ex have to suffer like this? It's not fair. It's not fair at all. I mean, she has her grandparents and her aunt, but she doesn't talk with them much. But why does God let people be born into such twisted families? They don't ask for it. It's so unfair...

 

I added one last paragraph to the e-mail. Should I send it now?

One day I hope you understand and forgive me for doing this. In order for us to grow further, we need to be apart. That is all I have to say, and I will not reply any further. I will be at my parents from now until Monday, so that should be enough time to get your things.

[keith515]

I feel you man. It is unfair. And that's why we keep on giving them chances because we think it isn't their fault. To an extent, yes, it isn't. But at some point they do need to start taking responsibility for their actions. Why? For THEIR OWN happiness. If they know what needs to be done, they will have to focus on themselves. They can't keep using the past as an excuse.

 

Zig Ziglar had this great quote from See You at the Top (p. 31)

If your past situation could possibly be "blamed" on someone else - your future growth and progress is placed squarely on your shoulders.

 

 

I know you will get better. It's hard, I know. But start concentrating on how you can improve yourself, just like she needs to do.

[DN]

Sending her that e-mail as it stands gives her a chance to argue. So don't do that. Say this, providing it is really what you want; "I have finally come to realise that my best interests are best served by not being with you. It's over. I intend to move on and hope you will do the same. Please don't contact me again" .

[Seymore]

Words of wisdom. And you know what? For the last 3 weeks or so, I'd been thinking of all the things I'd like to do were I single again. I'd like to save up and buy an iPhone. I'd like to finally get a new car because mine is almost 10 years old, falling apart and I couldn't afford one at the moment. I'd like to buy a plane ticket and see my family in Belgium whom I haven't seen in almost 9 years. I'd like to drive to Los Angeles and hang out there - by myself. I'd like to be able to spend an occasional Saturday night watching CSI with my parents like we used to (my ex didn't like me spending so much time with my family, as I'm sure you've noticed), or visit my grandma in the senior center where she lives now. In the last year I've gone there to visit her once (although I've seen her more often than that). I'd like to complete a video game. I'd like to record a CD and write a book. I'd like to expand my business a little - I told my clients I wouldn't work weekends (I didn't tell them because it was my "girlfriend" time). I think I might even become a Mason. My father is one and they do such great things for the community. Before I met my ex, I helped them out a lot. I should connect with them.

 

My ex wanted so much of my time I never could do these things, at least on my own. These things will help me get back to my old self again - and as much as I thought my family was boring before I met my ex, I think they're really great people and I feel I've got some reconnecting to do with them. And my friend - well, a lot of my schedule revolved around my ex, so my best friend got pushed aside - seeing him one night a week became one night a month. I need to call him up and get back in the habit of hanging out with him more.

[Seymore]

Sending her that e-mail as it stands gives her a chance to argue. So don't do that. Say this, providing it is really what you want; "I have finally come to realise that my best interests are best served by not being with you. It's over. I intend to move on and hope you will do the same. Please don't contact me again" .

 

Should I say that, or nothing at all? My last message to her was "Goodbye, (her name)", after I told her "I'm sorry, it's over" and "It's done", and AFTER I said goodbye and she said goodbye last night?

 

And DN...thanks. You've told me (and my other 2 aliases) several times to leave her. I never wanted to listen to you. I appreciate that there are people like you guys here. I'm going to need your support in the weeks to come.

[Lady Bugg2]

Hey Seymore....first of all Merry Christmas!!!

It sucks to be going through this...but it seems like you've given your

g/f MORE than enough chances to "change'. I think your decision in ending this

is a sound one.You are thinking with your head and not your heart. You are right..that she WILL be fine. She WILL probably have to learn a harsh lesson by losing you...but

that's the way it goes sometimes.

 

I don't think she is going to go away quietly however. From the things you have written so far, I would not be surprised if she continues to guilt trip you or even get nasty

with you again. I know this remains to be seen...but it seems to be her M.O.

 

I also agree with DN...I think keeping it short and to the point should suffice..and not allow room for any negotiation.

[Seymore]

Thank you, ladybug, and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

 

I still am not sure I will even e-mail her again. I feel that I've made it clear what I want. I think she might go away quietly. The last relationship like this that I was in, I said no more, and the girl stayed away. But thank you for validating my actions - it feels good to know I did right in standing up for myself and no longer taking this.

[Kristin25]

Hey I know this is rough. I'll give my example and I think it might shed some light on your situation.

 

I am going through a break with a guy I was with for 1 year. We were best friends in the beginning, we broke up once before (about 4 months ago) because he had a bit of a quarter life crisis, came running back and it was awful until we broke up for good now. He just stopped calling me, he was about to move back home (two states away) after now graduating college and start working. The last thing he said to me was that he will be coming to see me in a few days before he moved back home. We have not talked since and it has been incredibly painful, especially with tonight being Christmas. He called me twice the other night but I did not pick up. I sent him a text a few days later saying, "Saw you called. Don't know what to say."

 

Well, I have really been trying to get to the root of all of this. I had a lot of problems with being needy and attachment. For instance, we lived an hour away and when he would leave my house after staying for a few days, I would start to cry.

 

I was very needy and ended up revolving my life completely around him. We were serious, talked about getting married and moving into together, all that business. But I think I really drove him away. We weren't really all that compatible, but we still loved each other.

 

I have really been digging deep these past few days. It has been a hell of an experience. I have a small family too and have been dealing with my abandonment crap after never really facing my bad childhood. I've been making progress, but I have SO much more to do and basically I am attempting to make a dramatic change and turn my life around. And a lot of all of this has to do with my past and family.

 

Basically, your girl has got A LOT to deal with. She seems just genuinely pissed about what has happened to her in the past. Thank God she is young so she can face this early. She needs therapy and needs to get out that child in her and deal with it. I don't think that it really has a lot to do with you. You are a love of hers, so she takes it out on you, probably looking for you to solve some things. And that is when it starts to get dangerous.

 

But this is something that she needs to face, most likely without you, because I learned that I can't do it with a man in my life.

 

It is a very hard road, but it is completely doable. But she is the only one that can go down her road.

 

I have to say that you sound like an amazing guy. You have a lot of insight for being your age (I am the same age) and it is a rare find. But you aren't too sensitive to the point of being co-dependent, you just sound like you have your head on perfectly in this situation.

 

And you care, and that is just a wonderful quality in a man who is breaking up with someone. (I wish my ex had that!)

 

We all read these posts through our eyes and comment on them in our hurtful perspective, so this is mine.

 

I hope it helps. Also, yes you do sound like a great guy, but no pushing chicks. I am quite positive that doing something like that isn't in your nature, but you need to make sure you don't let that happen again. Amazing to hear that you know that is warning sign.

 

Why can't all men be like you??

[sparkles4]

I think you made the right call breaking up with her, and doing so does not make you an * * * * * * * . You were a decent guy, gave her several chances, but in the end it was obvious that the cycle would continue to repeat itself. The relationship was unhealthy, not only for you but for her as well, because it gave her someone to take her issues out on rather than dealing with them.

 

I agree with ladybugg that it's likely she won't let you go without a fight, and may not understand the meaning of "no contact." Based on what I've seen of these types of women, the more you pull away, the more they'll push, manipulate and guilt trip you. Keep reminding yourself that you've made the right decision, and stay strong!

[keith515]

This passage sounds like something my ex could have written. She grew up with a father and her mother was always with a different guy. She had a half-sister but I don't she lived with her all her life. In addition, once her mom moved out of her parents house at 17, she hadn't spoken to them since. Also, I read that she said her mom told her, "the maternal instinct must be dormant in our family." So she only had a mom who was probably spotty at best as a mom.

 

I think you said something similar or I did earlier, she (yours and mine) just couldn't handle seeing us with our family. It hurt too much and made them very angry. Obviously she had issues with you hanging out with yours. She admitted she felt jealous.

 

I remember one night we were supposed to go to my parents for their 30th anniversary and she was being completely unreasonable. She said she so angry but she didn't know why. I think I do now.

 

I think what makes these break-ups worse is because we don't want to abandon them or give up on them like so many other people have done in their lives. But what are we supposed to do? Just be their punching bag? It makes it worse because we miss them AND we contributing more pain.

 

As much as that sucks, that's the way it is. They can't handle being with someone who seems like such a great catch. In a sense, it makes them feel worse about themselves. It shouldn't, but it does.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You are doing the right thing. Your ex reminds me of a woman I was once friends with..she treated her boyfriend exactly the same way your ex treated you. The anger, hostility, verbal abuse, jealousy, not having her own money but having all of her entertainment being paid by her boyfriend and all she did was criticize him. She too came from an abusive family..and she learned how to be the abuser in her own relationship. This friend also knew that what she was doing was wrong...she just kept doing it...she would change for a few weeks when they had a big blowout and he walked away...but she would always get him back and after a couple of weeks she was back to verbally abusing him...and she threw things and destroyed his property at times. Just stay strong and don't go back...her email to you was the guilt and sympathy ploy in order to get you back into the same cycle. Stay strong and don't fall for it. Unless she really makes a concerted effort to change on her own, she will repeat this same pattern with subsequent men. Nobody can change someone like that...in fact for people like that, they seem to view love and compassion of a partner as a weakness to be exploited. They have no self-love so thereforee they look down on people who try to love them...they want the love, but at the same time they want to destroy the person who loves them...they have no respect for the person who loves them. Hang in there and don't go back...stay strong.

[keith515]

They have no self-love so thereforee they look down on people who try to love them...they want the love, but at the same time they want to destroy the person who loves them...they have no respect for the person who loves them.

To add to that, if they are with someone that is abusive, they will do practically anything to keep the relationship alive.

To me, it seems like they can't stand someone who loves them and treats them with respect.

I guess if they had a motto it would be something like this:

"Push the ones away who love you but hold onto the ones who treat you like crap."

Or something like that unless someone can come up with a more catchy phrase.

 

This friend also knew that what she was doing was wrong...she just kept doing it..

My ex knew what she was doing wrong. She always thought I was going to break up with her. It's pure self-destructive behavior.

[Seymore]

Thanks for the support again, everyone. Crazyaboutdogs, you were another one who posted a while back multiple times that I should dump her (under my other aliases, which will merge now). I went to make myself feel a little better by shopping for things I didn't get that were on my Christmas list. I stopped by my condo to get some things I needed and saw that her cat, TV and credit cards are still at my place, she never came to get them yet. I fed the cat (no way will I let her starve), got my stuff and went back to my folks' house. I watched a movie and just as I was feeling better, she called. I didn't pick up, and she texted "Can we talk today?"

 

I don't want any more communication - I am at the point where I am starting to feel better. I said goodbye and I'm sorry, it's over, what is she not getting? I know she just wants a response out of me, and I'm not going to give it to her. I also think part of her is thinking I'm playing around, but I don't know how to be more direct than that. Any time we've fought before, she'd apologize and I'd take her back, but I never said "It's over", this time I did, and more than once. I don't even want to keep my phone on me because every time it rings it snaps me out of my healing process and I begin to hurt again, though I never feel weak in wanting to answer the phone. Unfortunately, my friend may come by tonight so I need the phone.

[DN]

I think you may have to be very firm in making her accept that it is really over. What she is seeing is probably just an escalation of previous break-ups but is still expect a reconciliation because that is the previous pattern. You saying 'it's over' is still not final for her.

 

Perhaps you need to give her a deadline of getting her cat and stuff out of your apartment. Don't talk about anything else but winding up the relationship and if she tries to talk about getting back together then ignore that and revert to the break-up details.

[Lady Bugg2]

Seymore... I would text her back once...and say..."this will be the last time I will respond to your contact.Please have your things out of the house by such and such day...Please don't contact me anymore.It's over".

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I think you may have to be very firm in making her accept that it is really over. What she is seeing is probably just an escalation of previous break-ups but is still expect a reconciliation because that is the previous pattern. You saying 'it's over' is still not final for her.

 

Perhaps you need to give her a deadline of getting her cat and stuff out of your apartment. Don't talk about anything else but winding up the relationship and if she tries to talk about getting back together then ignore that and revert to the break-up details.

 

Very good advice. I will also add that you should be prepared for some real nastiness from her as she realizes you are serious about ending things. Right now she is being sweet hoping to get you back. What often happens with abusers is that once they find out their sweet tactics don't work anymore they will resort to nastiness...instilling guilt, twisting everything around to make it seem like it is all your fault. She could get really nasty so don't take it personally...she would simply be following the "rule book for abusers".

[naturesown]

Sounds like you think you know what she wants..........and don't have a clue what it is you want..........keep playing games......and you will get exactly what you put into it.

No one can make any one else happy if a person isn't happy with themselves............that is the bottom line..........she doesn't need a anger clinic you need a control and manipulation clinic.

Joe