I need help understanding something to do with women

[corvidae]

I've been on these forums for quite a few years now, often complaining about being single. Over the past few months I decided to do something about it. Since August I've asked out two women and had a yes in both cases. The latest of these events was three days ago.

 

However, in both cases, despite getting a yes, when I tried to call they did not answer and, even when I left a message, didn't get back to me. Now, the woman I asked out three days gave me her number, and I phoned when I could, which was not the next day but the day after. I tried to call twice on that day, and this morning left a message. The woman I asked out in August, I tried to call two or three times and also left a message.

 

In both cases, they have just ignored me trying to contact them and never got back. Now, if they have changed their minds, then that's OK. It's up to them. But I don't understand the approach of just ignoring my messages. Particularly the woman from a couple of days ago - we work together, so I we will see each other again. It's going to be pretty awkward when we see each other again if she just blanks me. Surely it would be better for them to discuss this with me, which is a pretty inevitable event anwyay.

 

I just don't understand what is going on here. Can I have people's thoughts on this? In both cases these women have struck me as nice, intelligent individuals and I just cannot reconcile this behaviour with what I know about them.

 

Thanks.

[COtuner]

Some women can be shy about rejecting a guy, they feel bad about it and figure this sends the message in a more polite way. I agree that it would be more appropriate to say something, but it's not easy for some women to come out and say the truth.

 

I used to do this myself in my early to mid-20s. Now I avoid the situation by giving out an email address instead of a phone number, because I find it easier to change my mind in writing. Somewhat cowardly, but at least now I give the guy an answer. I wish guys would do this too, when they don't get back to us

[agent1607307371]

They're just not that into you / busy with their lives.

 

Or maybe they just said yes because they wanted you to sweat, or felt uncomfortable declining to your face, or are evil. I mean, why ignore messages after giving you the correct number?

 

I don't know, it could be anything. People are weird.

[Timebandit]

Change of state might also mean something. It is f.ex. obvious that a woman is at a different state of mind at a party or at a club than when being at home.

 

Change of state sometimes leads to regret.

[lifeiscash]

I had been getting this alot lately too. Women ignoring my advances. Not sure why, I have alot to offer, make good money, sociable, confident, etc. Some I'm sure are shy but I believe most of these women are selfish. Many have emotional barriers that they will never bring down. Many of them use it as only an ego boost to the self esteem. They thrive on men asking them out and actually enjoy it and laugh at the fact they are ignoring you.

[Shudder]

Many of them use it as only an ego boost to the self esteem. They thrive on men asking them out and actually enjoy it and laugh at the fact they are ignoring you.

 

 

i'd consider that as pretty immature and childish. no way would i want to date a woman who wants her ego rubbed all the time. those that get asked out alot or get frequent compliments think they are already better than they really are.

 

i say don't waste time trying to figure out why they don't call back, just forget about it and move on.

[alli]

Some women don't like to say no, even if they want to. Pretty silly for the 2nd one since she knew she would run into you again.

[COtuner]

I had been getting this alot lately too. Women ignoring my advances. Not sure why, I have alot to offer, make good money, sociable, confident, etc. Some I'm sure are shy but I believe most of these women are selfish. Many have emotional barriers that they will never bring down. Many of them use it as only an ego boost to the self esteem. They thrive on men asking them out and actually enjoy it and laugh at the fact they are ignoring you.

 

I think this is an age / maturity issue you are describing. I don't know many women in their 30s who would behave as you describe. Then again, I don't flirt or lead on guys that I have no interest in dating to begin with, so maybe I'm just too polite.

[corvidae]

OK, so the general consensus is this person isn't interested, gave me their number for some odd reason but now wants to back out. Fair enough, I shall move onward, but I find that behaviour very very strange and I think she ought to seek counselling. When I see this person at work, I can only assume she will have to pretend she doesn't see me or something.

[Imprecision]

First, congratulations for approaching.

 

When a woman gives you her number, she's probably attracted to you. Even if she's not attracted to you, she considers you distinctive enough to want to give you a chance. This decision is based on her emotions at the time.

 

However, when a woman goes home, her logic takes over. Often, for whatever reason - e.g. she has a boyfriend, or she is too busy, or she just doesn't feel like doing thing at the moment, etc. - she will flake on you.

 

In cold approaching (I'm talking about daygame, e.g. coffee-shops, malls, libraries, parks, etc.), the ratio of returned calls is usually less than 1/5.

 

I once read a guy's story about his results after learning pick-up on mASF. Through cold approaching, he got 20 women's phone numbers. Of these, 3 returned his calls. Of these 3, 2 became his girlfriends. This took place in the space of a month.

 

This sounds about right. Cold approaching is a numbers game.

 

My personal experience is better, because I am very selective about whom I approach these days. But it's no more than 2 returned calls out of 5.

 

For social circles, women tend to return your calls more (but this depends on how well you know them). However, you have fewer options in social circles.

 

You might think it would be embarrassing if a woman in your social circle doesn't return your calls. But it actually doesn't matter. Surprisingly, you get many second chances. Keep friendly - after a while, ask her again.

 

I used to have a rule where I cross off a woman's number after two unreturned calls - on the second call, I leave my number in case she changes her mind. However, under heloladies's guidance - I changed my policy. I call twice. After a while, I might call again.

 

Maximise your chances.

 

Addition

 

Another way is to get the girl's email. Then, instead of asking her out on the first email, just ask her some personal questions like "If you can only choose one or another, would you choose a life of romance or a life of adventures?" Build up rapport over email - then she's less likely to flake.

 

You can also use msn or email. Personally, since I eschew technology, these conveniences are unavailable to me.

[corvidae]

Thanks, that helps a lot. I think in the case of woman no.2 I don't think she was interested in me. When I asked her out I think her attitude was very much "well, why not...". I suppose I should try to read the body language a bit more before asking, but then people are so different you often can't tell unless you ask outright.

 

On the other hand, I'm pleased with myself for having the guts to ask, and I can feel that at least I am trying and making an effort. I don't agree with the ignoring me thing, mainly because I know this person and I think they owe me a response at least. Had it been a random person I would understand much better. I will continue to be friendly, but her chance is gone now!

[Timebandit]

On the other hand, I'm pleased with myself for having the guts to ask, and I can feel that at least I am trying and making an effort. I don't agree with the ignoring me thing, mainly because I know this person and I think they owe me a response at least. Had it been a random person I would understand much better. I will continue to be friendly, but her chance is gone now!

 

Seriously, since you can muster up the courage to ask girls while not being too attached to the outcome you are already WAY ahead of the pack. I am absolutely certain that you will succeed with this.

 

Excellent work.

[corvidae]

Hi, I want to thank people for the positive comments, it's helping me get through this.

 

I don't have a great deal of confidence, mainly to do with my childhood and school life and also University where women have treated me always like a bit of a freak.

 

I'm trying hard now to fix the things I don't like in my life, and as with all things I think it's going to be hard and I'll take some knocks on the way.

 

Finding someone, unless it's something that comes to you naturally, is difficult. There's the approaching, the many rejections and the few successes that (hopefully) make the negative feelings associated with rejection worth the price.

 

I still hope that one day someone interesting who I find attractive will show some interest in me, but even if that never happens I won't give up. I'm going to push on so that even if I never make it, even if I do end up alone, I'll know it wasn't because I didn't try.

 

Seriously, since you can muster up the courage to ask girls while not being too attached to the outcome you are already WAY ahead of the pack. I am absolutely certain that you will succeed with this.

 

Excellent work.

[Karmageddon]

Well fortune favors the brave!! Congrats on your willingness to throw yourself out there. It's to bad that people don't have the cajones to just say no thank you. If someone Im not interested in asks me out I just have to suck it up and say thanks but no thanks. Its rude to let people sit there and wonder like that. Im curious as to the age group you are looking at.

 

I will also offer up one small bit of advice that you didn't ask for! LOL! Be wary of dating in the work place. Its a small thing that the girl didn't call you back, but imagine having to see someone every day when things didn't work out. Just MHO!

[Mutley]

Well, unfortunately....it's not straightforeward in the dating world. Someone worthwhile will be consistant and answer your phone calls and show up for the date, etc. When they fail to do so....they just weeded themselves out.

 

It's been said...it's a cat and mouse game. It be easier if it wasn't, but it is. You have read the "nonverbals".....doesn't matter what they say, or what they did....it's what they are doing NOW.

[corvidae]

Im curious as to the age group you are looking at.

 

Well I'm 29 and this person is mid 20s. I think I'd expect a little more maturity at her age. Oddly enough, I had sent her a facebook friend request some time ago before all the not replying started. She accepted the request today. I interpret this as she has ignored me for a few days to show there is no romantic interest, and has now accepted a 'friend request' to show there's now hard feelings. Of course, would be much more straightforward if she could just speak to me!

 

I will also offer up one small bit of advice that you didn't ask for! LOL! Be wary of dating in the work place. Its a small thing that the girl didn't call you back, but imagine having to see someone every day when things didn't work out. Just MHO!

 

Thanks for that advice, I know what you mean. However, my workplace has over 850 staff and it's not uncommon for two people to not meet. The most extreme case of this was when I knew someone who had worked there for 35 years and had not heard of someone who had worked there for 14 years. So I guess I'm saying that the organisation is of sufficient size that I'm not too worried about the usual 'office romance' issues. Although we will probably run into each other now and then.

[Nutz]

The parts in read are clear as day what's going on: you are not generating attraction and they're just being polite. Or they might have slight attraction, but it fizzles by the time you call. Furthermore your calling multiple times and leaving messages are a dead ringer for neediness.

 

The part in blue is more of the same. When you do see each other again she'll more than likely just come up with an excuse why she didn't get back to you. It's her way of weaseling out of not responding.

 

My suggestion is to read my blog, both The Game and Rules of the Game by Neil Strauss, The Mystery Method, and link removed. All of them will give you solid insights on how to generate attraction. It all boils down to being fun, chill, well groomed, and unaffected by the crap women throw at you.

[Nutz]

For the guys that get flaked on, here's some solid advice:

 

link removed

 

 

 

 

 

The way I see it, the first time they flake it's benefit of the doubt time since sometimes stuff happens or people are busy. The second time it's "Screw me once, shame on you..." There will be no "...screw me twice, shame on me."

[Imprecision]

Each man must build his own philosophy of life. My words must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Nutz's philosophy is generally applicable. In former times, I followed the two-strike rule, too. In particular, I would leave my contact info in the second message. A girl can always choose to contact me later on.

 

However, recently, Heloladies pointed out that you don't lose anything by contacting a girl beyond two tries. Some guys believe that you would appear needy if you do more than two tries. But if you originate from a non-needy framework, then you won't appear needy. And even if you appear needy, so what? It's just one girl's opinion. But if you don't pursue her, then you definitely lose out.

 

Of course, this is completely different from agonising over one girl over and over again when she flakes. In this case, Nutz's message is very applicable.

[corvidae]

OK, cool, thanks for your response. The two strikes, rule, well it's as good a system as any I suppose! I'll stick to that from now on.

 

My suggestion is to read my blog, both The Game and Rules of the Game by Neil Strauss, The Mystery Method, and link removed. All of them will give you solid insights on how to generate attraction. It all boils down to being fun, chill, well groomed, and unaffected by the crap women throw at you.

[D_Lish]

When a woman gives you her number, she's probably attracted to you.

 

Not always the case.

 

People who are attracted, don't normally lose that quick of an interest.

 

If the woman is attracted, she'd answer calls/follow up a call or text.

 

I've given my number in the past, with no intention of answering his call. I did it rather than to outright reject him and hurt feelings.

 

These days however, nobody gets my number unless I am interested. And I follow up calls and texts.

[Pegasus]

I've given my number in the past, with no intention of answering his call. I did it rather than to outright reject him and hurt feelings.

 

This is a bit fuzzy logic, isn't it?

[D_Lish]

This is a bit fuzzy logic, isn't it?

 

Well yeah...lol. I know its daft. But rather than reject someone to their face, I would give a number, then just not answer his call and hope he gets the message. That way, you are not rejecting, 'face to face'.....

 

I don't do this now however, I've grown up a lot ... lol

[Imprecision]

Not always the case.

 

People who are attracted, don't normally lose that quick of an interest.

 

If the woman is attracted, she'd answer calls/follow up a call or text.

 

I've given my number in the past, with no intention of answering his call. I did it rather than to outright reject him and hurt feelings.

 

These days however, nobody gets my number unless I am interested. And I follow up calls and texts.

 

It's an interesting perspective.

 

Of course, if a woman is not attracted, then there's not much you can do anyway.

 

However, sometimes, a woman is clearly attracted (e.g. when you ask for her number, she even tells you her time schedule, so to make things easier for you). But then, when you call her, she never returns the call.

 

I was actually just discussing this with a friend yesterday. His view is that you should just keep on calling, without leaving voice-mails, until she picks up. Personally, I have never done this. However, I'm interested in this strategy.

 

What is your view of this?

[D_Lish]

It's an interesting perspective.

 

Of course, if a woman is not attracted, then there's not much you can do anyway.

 

However, sometimes, a woman is clearly attracted (e.g. when you ask for her number, she even tells you her time schedule, so to make things easier for you). But then, when you call her, she never returns the call.

 

I was actually just discussing this with a friend yesterday. His view is that you should just keep on calling, without leaving voice-mails, until she picks up. Personally, I have never done this. However, I'm interested in this strategy.

 

What is your view of this?

 

Some are not clearly attracted...they give off the impression they are.

 

I've also given guys a reason to believe I was interested and given them a time to call me and havn't picked up....lol. My aim was, to be as nice as possible and to get away as quickly as possible, from an awkward and uncomfortable situation.

 

Pathetic when you think about it though, because if people have no interest, then they should just be honest about it rather than lead on. But men are the same. They will lead women into believing things and mean absolutely none of it....

 

In regard to your question about the man calling persistently and even though he gets no response....persistence can sometimes pay off actually. I read somewhere recently, that women often end up with men that had strongly pursued them in the beginning. Guy Im involved with now, had strongly pursued me and never gave up. But I think even for persistence to work, there still has to be an attraction for the guy on the womans part...

If she isn't attracted whatsoever, then I highly doubt persistence is gonna get you anywhere either.....other than reported to the police