E-mails too long and passionate?

[xxNPxx]

I was reading a post from a member at this site when I thought about my own dating problems. Specifically for online dating, I was wondering if I write too much? Usually I put an average of about two pages of info when I'm asked questions. But the answers might be things like, "Yes I play guitar! Here are some songs I play... I love these artists because... In the future I want to be able to... I'm having trouble with this... Maybe it will work out in the end though..." And so on and so forth. But with 2-3 other questions I easily get more then a page of stuff. I'd say I'd write for about 15 to 20 minutes.

 

I try to ask the girl stuff about her self but, sometimes it's hard to make questions. Though I'm always able to through one or two out there without any problems.

 

I was just wondering what you guys think about long posts, are they good? Bad? I hear some people say: "Don't write a novel!". Well I have written a novel and two pages seem like a paragraph to me lol. I actually think the girl I was emailing was a little uninterested, all she would write is one paragraph!

[Binoo]

Well, personally, I like when people write me long e-mails. As long as it's not egotistical, I enjoy reading about someone's hobbies/interests/lives in general.

But some people might disagree....?

[laisla]

two pages? yea i think that's a bit much if you only just started talking. just give 1 or 2 answers so she has the opportunity to reply more. break down the 2 pages of information into 10 emails.

[hers]

It sounds like yours are too long. If you meet up, what else will you talk about if you already got it out in email? There's a happy medium between too short and too long. Find it and stick to it.

[knightNshiningarmor]

one paragraph is just right imo until u take it to Iming.

[xxNPxx]

Thanks everyone. I think that's why I haven't gotten many replies after the first letter.

 

hersmudders, Don't forget I have a lot of writing experience. I can easily elaborate. Though most of what I talk about is simply detailed explanations as to why I do certain things.

 

I've also thought that the faster you get to know each other, fully and completely, the more you can get into the "real" part of the relationship. Is it really interesting for everyone to learn more about their partner? I always thought you could probably do that in a week and not worry about learning new things until a few years later.

 

la'isla

 

THAT'S LIKE HALF A PARAGRAPH! How am I supposed to sum up something so complex as say my hobbies in half a paragraph!? I don't mind being vague but wow That's like saying, "What hobbies do you have?" "Yes!".

 

Ugh, that probably means the paragraph letters she's been sending me... probably wasn't a lack of interest. I thought the girl seemed pretty bland and dull because her responses were vague and she didn't write much. I thought half a page would be minimum amount of writing one should do when dating online. God, I feel like such an idiot ](*,)

[laisla]

well think of it like this. you can write a paragraph in the first few e-mails, then write more as you learn more about each other. after all, think of all the writing you'd do usually, and yet you get very little replies after. that's a waste. do it little by little. you can still tell her everything she needs to know. but not RIGHT away. stretch it out.

[JadedStar]

No, don't send an intro email that involved! You will scare her away! A one paragraph introducing yourself, and asking something about her will suffice. she can read your profile if she wants to hear aobut all of your interests.

 

The longest email i ever got from an online profile was two paragraphs, and it was one paragraph too long! LOL

[bronte]

It is good to keep things short at the beginning, but most of my online courtships have included e-mails getting longer and longer as we went on--the key is to allow the person more time to respond due to the length of the messages and to not forget that you still need to make actually meeting in person a priority. But if you're a literary type prone to writing pages and pages, I don't think there's anything wrong in looking for a match who also enjoys writing--just remember that not *everyone* writes long replies and don't interpret every brief reply as indicating a lack of interest.

[Batya33]

I did not like long emails from men I contacted on dating sites. I wanted one or two short emails at most, hopefully with a phone number, followed by a phone call - about 15-20 minutes - to see if we clicked enough to meet in person for 45 minutes over coffee. I found the typing back and forth mostly irrelevant to whether we clicked enough to meet in person for coffee.

 

For that I didn't need to know his hobbies, his specific life goals, his philosophy -- especially not as part of a long email -- just that we had enough in common so we could have a 45 minute conversation over coffee and decide after that whether we wanted to go on a date at some point. I found the long emails overkill, sometimes too needy and gave me the impression that he wanted an email penpal more than he wanted to meet in person. I usually would respond "thanks for sharing -- I much prefer talking to typing to see if it makes sense to meet in person so please send me a phone number where I can contact you and when you're available to talk".

[JadedStar]

I totally agree. The heartfelt discussions and goals and such should come FACE TO FACE once you find out there is a connection and you have gone out a few times.

[xxNPxx]

I totally agree. The heartfelt discussions and goals and such should come FACE TO FACE once you find out there is a connection and you have gone out a few times.

 

Wow I feel like a complete idiot. I mean the first messages I sent were pretty short. But I only give out about 10 -20 % of what I am like in real life. I'm simply passionate about my hobbies, and I write with that same passion too. I thought that it would have been physically impossible to assume that a person was needy if they write about their hobbies with enthusiasm. I figured that a person would have to be completely mental to come up with such a thing.

 

45 minutes to decid if a person is good enough to date? Are you serious? That sounds so short. I could spend 45 minutes simply talking about half of what I do in my free time in that short amount. I don't see how you could possibly get to know somebody in that short of time. I would say at the very least 1-2 hours. Otherwise how would you be able to trust the person you meet? It would be a simple courtesy.

 

I also thought that it was standard to wait anywhere from 1 to 2 weeks before actually giving out phone numbers. Otherwise it would be way to fast and probably means they're only in it for the sex Holy s**t I thought I was getting lucky ](*,)

 

agh, most of my dating ideals were based off of similar time scales and ideas about interaction. Everything is way too short compared to my original thinking. I bet I'm wrong on 90% of my offline dating material too. That's f***ked up, because I give a lot of dating advice when in reality, it seems I don't even now the first thing about dating.

[Batya33]

I don't need more than a 45 minute conversation in person to decide if I want to go on one date with the person - very often I met men at parties and events where we spoke for 15 minutes, I gave him my number, he called, we spoke for another 15 minutes and made plans to go on a date, so exchanging a few emails and talking by phone and meeting for 45 minutes over coffee to me is ample time to decide whether to go on an official "date"- it is not nearly enough time to decide whether to go on more than one date or whether I want a relationship with that person - but one date, sure.

 

I love writing and I love reading. I love writing and reading letters. Long ones, too. But when it came to dating, to me it was key to meet the person in person ASAP so that I didn't get attached to the image of the person from his writings. If I were looking for an email penpal or online platonic friend it would have been great to exchange long emails -- which is what I do with my on line friends.

 

I don't need to trust a person completely to meet them in person in a public place for 45 minutes - I have to feel comfortable enough that there are no major red flags (and I was excellent at screening) and that I believe we have enough to talk about for about 45 minutes. For the first date, I also kept it to a public place so that there would be minimal safety concerns. Long phone calls and long emails had no relevance to me as far as trusting how the person would be in person. I would have less trust in a person who wanted to hide behind a computer screen and send long emails than someone who wanted to meet in person after a few emails and a 20 minute phone call.

 

99% of the men I was in contact with through on line dating sites gave me their phone numbers after the first email or maybe second at the latest. I never had casual sex in my life and 99% of the men I agreed to meet in person were not just looking for sex - they were looking for a relationship. I refused to keep in contact with any man who referred to sex in an email or phone call to me. 99% because I made one or two mistakes in the over 100 men I met in person - meaning, when we met I realized that they probably were looking for a fling and I stopped contact at that point.

[hers]

I know if I'm interested in pursuing a person I meet online within less than 5 minutes. It can be done in such a short time. It doesn't take women very long at all, sometimes as little as 2 minutes (what I've heard anyway). Everything else after that is filler.

[xxNPxx]

Batya, I guess I can see why people go to coffee shops for dates. Are dates usually that short? I always figured normal dates were 2-3 or even 4-5 hours long.

 

I've always said that you can learn enough by a person's writing whether or not you would want to date them. Simply be a simple cross analysis of various ideals, character types, and personality traits while looking for possible misinformation could produce a better and more accurate picture of a person then simply meeting them for 45 minutes.

 

What do you talk about in such a short period of time? I talked to a girl over the phone once, even though it didn't work out (I ended the relationship after about 2hours of chatting), I spent most of the time listening to her speak. Often times I would offer some logical input every so often but that would be it.

[hers]

My coffee/drink meetups don't have a time limit. Some of them have been an hour, some a few hours. Once I sat with a guy for 2.5 hours and I wasn't interested in him from the get-go. He was so BORING. I just coudln't figure out a way to get out of there! Then another time I was enjying myself and it lasted just an hour. Last Saturday, I went out wiht a guy for drinks and we sat there for 3 hours. Woudl've been longer if the bar hadn't been closing. We went out again last night. Don't limit it if you don't want to. Just don't type so much in your emails--save some stuff to talk about in person.

[xxNPxx]

I know if I'm interested in pursuing a person I meet online within less than 5 minutes. It can be done in such a short time. It doesn't take women very long at all, sometimes as little as 2 minutes (what I've heard anyway). Everything else after that is filler.

 

I usually can't figure it out until about the 3rd email, and that's if she has written a few paragraphs.

 

5 or 2 minutes seems to be a joke. You could not possibly learn about somebody enough to know if they are dating material that quick. Sure maybe basic personality traits, but anyone can do that with 10-15 seconds of a glance at their photo.

 

I don't know, I'm assuming that the women were speaking of are half as complicated or interesting as I consider myself. If I had met myself I would not fully understand me without more then about 15 hours of interaction. I consider my self a little complex, but fairly understandable. For years I assumed that I might be a little different then most other people, just slightly, but not this much.

[hers]

I usually can't figure it out until about the 3rd email, and that's if she has written a few paragraphs.

 

5 or 2 minutes seems to be a joke. You could not possibly learn about somebody enough to know if they are dating material that quick. Sure maybe basic personality traits, but anyone can do that with 10-15 seconds of a glance at their photo.

 

I don't know, I'm assuming that the women were speaking of are half as complicated or interesting as I consider myself. If I had met myself I would not fully understand me without more then about 15 hours of interaction. I consider my self a little complex, but fairly understandable. For years I assumed that I might be a little different then most other people, just slightly, but not this much.

 

It's all about first impression. Am I physically attracted to him? How did he greet me? Is he shy and timid? How does he speak? How did he treat the server or whatever wherever we're meeting?

 

Things like that. They tell you what you need to know immediately.

 

I have a friend I met offline. Met him off a dating site. Within the first 2 minutes I knew I wasn't attracted to him, though I thought he was attractive in his pictures. He has said the same thing about me. We've been friends for a year now and get along great. In fact, I've met his new girlfriend and we're all going out on Saturday.

 

I always do a couple of emails back and forth and if they are good eamils and they haven't already asked me out, I will ask them.

[Batya33]

I consider myself a complex person of substance of depth - quirks, flaws and all -- and so are the men with whom I've been involved in serious relationships. But, all I am deciding when I decided to meet someone in person I first contacted through a dating site was whether he had the basics I was looking for (not a long list) and whether it was worth it to explore over a 45 minute cup of coffee whether it made sense to go on a first date and take it from there. The typed words did very little for me in the way of helping me make that decision and very very often, I found that when I exchanged several emails or long emails we might get along quite well in typed form but not on the phone and/or not in person because typing - no matter how eloquent a writer you are, no matter how much "complex" stuff you try to share in words - is no replacement for meeting in person - there's no nonverbal communication for example in words - no body language, energy, presense, eye contact, vibes - and of course no way to assess physical attraction or the potential for a spark.

 

With all due respect I very gently suggest you get over yourself as far as you being too "complex" to be able to share enough about yourself in a 20 minute phone call to decide whether it's worth it to meet in person for 45 minutes (I am not talking about "full understanding" - to me that is not necessary or possible to do before meeting or within a few dates - that takes getting to know someone in person and over a period of time).

 

My guess is that your need for wordiness and to share your complexities with a near stranger has more to do with putting up barriers to getting close to someone - stalling or delaying the meeting until you've shared all your hobbies, complexities, philosophies - than with being "too complex" to be able to make the decision to meet faster than you do. Again I mean that in a totally respectful way.

[xxNPxx]

What? How could you possible know enough about a person to judge them worthy of dating or not?

 

Did you forget, hidden personality traits, personal philosophy, logical integration of philosophy into daily life scheme, personal philosophy as it relates to hobbies, changing ideals in relation to lifestyle and the personality traits that are effected due to it? What about looking at inter generational dialogue, mental capacity, mental capacity in relation to personal philosophy and that same logical integration of that philosophy into their life? How could you dismiss a person without knowing important things like that?

 

Assuming physical attraction existed in all cases, I could not see how you could dismiss somebody so easily. I could meet a girl who could curse the waiter, speak in an odd language, and laugh at the idea of cottage cheese, but if I don't know the above information I have no idea if I like the person at all.

[hers]

Those are things that don't need to be found out during the first meeting. What else will you learn about if you were to have a relationship with them? You have to have some things that you continue to learn about within the course of dating/being in a relationship.

 

If someone curses a waiter, then it shows that they probably have a lack of compassion or understanding for others, something I don't want in my relationship. By how they speak, I mean do they speak as though they have an education? If their grammar is horrible, then a lack of education shows through (I don't care how many degrees they have).

 

Everything I need to know in order to determine if I want to pursue further with them is within that first meeting. A lot of things shine through--I can tell the way they talk about anything, even if it's the way they get out of bed in the morning, if they are passionate about something. If they talk excitedly about their hobbies, I know they're important to them. If they talk about certain things in disgust (even if looking at a person in the restaurant), I determine that they have bouts of cynicism or negativity.

 

First impression says so much.

[xxNPxx]

No offense taken. I understand what you mean completely. But actually there are very little barriers when I meet somebody. Which has been more of a problem because I'm so open I'm truly willing to discuss just about anything. If a girl asked me how much I masturbate, I could tell her with little hesitation. I'm not trying to delay meetings on purpose because I find myself "too complex". If I'm doing any delaying, it's because I'm simply confused as to how dating works.

 

Whether or not they know enough about me or not my philosophy is to give people I wouldn't automatically shoot down, a fair chance in case I might have missed something. I consider 2-3 dates mandatory to accurately get a picture of how you are getting to know. Unless things go bad the first date of course. And then after those first few dates, you then consider to continue the dating or end it there.

 

But I see that, it's not supposed to be done like that so I am readjusting my thinking and habits to match.

 

I understand the nonverbal communication part a little. But vibe, energy, and presense? I don't hear much about it so I probably don't have it. Any information about such communication? I have spent much time meditating and trancing. It shouldn't take me but a week to perfect such skills, if only temporarily. Much longer for permanent changes.

[xxNPxx]

Oops, I think I made another error. I never assumed that the purpose of a relationship was to simply learn more about each other. I always figured that to be fun for a few weeks but quite boring after that. Relationships, I thought, were simply like best friends living together plus sex.

 

If someone curses a waiter I must first learn why. Of course I would agree that cursing at a waiter is simply bad, there can be multiple situation in which such action might be warranted. If their grammar is horrible I must figure out why. Do they speak another language? Are they educated? Is it a choice? What are the reasons behind the choice? If they speak another language, maybe I can learn it too.

 

I have always thought for my entire life that turning somebody down on the first date if they did nothing bizarre or stupid was equal to simply being a jerk. Wow each time you post I feel another part of my mind being crushed and thrown out the window ](*,)

[Batya33]

Most people i know would be turned off - or at least very concerned - if on a first meet a person overshared about very personal details - so I would reconsider, if I were you, your "filters".

 

I am not referring to meditation or trancing. I am referring to things you learn about a person in person that you can never know by typing or talking on the phone - the way they make eye contact, their body language, what vibes they give off (hostile? warm? approachable? distant?), their posture and whether they have a confident energy about them - or a positive energy/negative energy, etc. I can't really explain it better but I can tell you that it is a huge reason why typing and talking give little relevant information when it comes to finding a match for a romantic relationship, assuming that relationship will be conducted largely in person.

 

And of course you have no idea how the person treats others in person - a waiter, a stranger asking for directions, you, etc. At least to me those are far more important than the person's life philosophy or hobbies if I am going to have a serious relationship with the person. I remember meeting a handsome guy who I had a good conversation with prior to meeting- he showed up 45 minutes late with no apologies, and arrogantly asked the waiter in Spanish for a knife. My 'date" spoke English and assumed the waiter was hispanic. Next.

 

Then there was the very intelligent "deep" guy who was very polite and proper in person - except I sensed the hostility /negativity underneath. When I raised that in response to his asking me out again, he denied it. Then 8 weeks later he emailed me to tell me I was totally right - that he was miserable in his job, bitter because of it, and it permeated his life -- so he quit and felt so much better.

 

Or the guy who sat accross from me at a small table at a cafe and decided to take up my half of the table with his body when he spoke with me. Or the guy who I had great,animated conversations with - several! - on the phone and when he showed up for the date, he sat all the way back in his chair almost slumped to one side with a dull look in his eyes - and had very little to say.

 

Those are just a few examples of many times where either the person in person was nothing like his profile, his emails, etc or where the person on email was nothing like the person on the phone (so that I declined to meet in person). Often it had to do with non-verbal communication (or perhaps a tone of voice on the phone).

 

 

There are many books on nonverbal communication, on body language, etc that might explain it better than I can in this post.

[hers]

A relationship should always reveal surprises. That's my take anyway. That can lead to you being best friends. Do you not care to know who your best friend is? Can you share on the first date every story from your childhood, what that person was like in high school, what aspirations they have for the future, where they want to settle down when they retire? No, not at all. That stuff all comes up over time.

 

How old are you, if I may ask? Have you had many relationships?

 

I'm not saying i stop a first meeting with someone after 5 minutes if I know I'm not attracted to them. I still attempt to get to know them to see if my first impression was wrong (like I said, I sat with a really boring guy for 2 hours once knowing I wasn't attracted to him). But often, if I'm not attracted to him on the first meet up and I can see tension in his body language and stuff like that, then I'm turned off and don't necessarily want to pursue it.