Why are people so fixated on climbing the corporate ladder?

[JadedStar]

Ok here is a quick example...my department brings in the most money for the core of the business my company does. We have had numerous opportunities and pressures from up above us and from clients to compromise the integrity of work for a quick buck which wouldn't be sustainable in the long term. We as a team would have to rebuff it and the end result? We're the most understaffed and undervalued department in the whole company, yet we still bring in strong results and carry the weight of other departments. Not to mention they constrain our budgets and other resources that we're supposed to have on hand.

 

So some schmuck wants to make a quick buck and make himself good at the expense of others and most importantly company for a short term gain.

 

But if you go into work everyday and do the best job you can that you are paid for, then you can worry about your own contributions and value to yourself, and what might happen as far as short term or long term gain is a bit bigger than you and not as important. This is about doing the best job one can do for him or herself. Of course some company will almost always gain from your labor, but that is why they call it 'work'.

[Sn0man]

Ok here is a quick example...my department brings in the most money for the core of the business my company does. We have had numerous opportunities and pressures from up above us and from clients to compromise the integrity of work for a quick buck which wouldn't be sustainable in the long term. We as a team would have to rebuff it and the end result? We're the most understaffed and undervalued department in the whole company, yet we still bring in strong results and carry the weight of other departments. Not to mention they constrain our budgets and other resources that we're supposed to have on hand.

 

So some schmuck wants to make a quick buck and make himself good at the expense of others and most importantly company for a short term gain.

I would think that anyone who would stoop to compromise the integrity of the company they work for to make themselves [their quick buck] look good (which, in actual fact, they are not) would get canned.

 

I know I would fire anyone who did that. No climbing a ladder when there's no corporation to lean it on! And thats exactly what'll happen when people take short cuts to do as you say above.

[Wolf_22]

If someone has goals or some sort of life-mission revolving around being successful or obtaining his or her "dream job" that eventually gets reduced to being something other than "work", then more power to him or her. I think that's great. I have been fortunate enough to experience this sort of work and I would hope anyone and everyone has that chance in life.

 

Secondly, the scales of morality balance both ways whether you find yourself casting ballots in favor of corporations or the local McDonald's. If you find yourself telling another that "you doubt everyone wishes to be flipping hamburgers all their lives" or "every corporate snob is a cut-throat", well, you're both right, and, you're both wrong.

 

I have known many people in my life who subscribed to both paradigms. Many found the wealthy, prestigious white-collar life worth their time and education while many others also found the silver lining in fast-food.

 

Here's something to consider for the TPS Report succubus:

1.) You'll be working (on average) 50 hours a week.

2.) Everyday, you will be fighting off constant office bureaucracy where the fat slob one office over loves setting you up with his constant mind games and backstabbing while simultaneously asking you to stop by his or her house on the weekend (of course, this conversation takes place while you sit there nodding your head about something this same person has allied with you on concerning a common enemy).

3.) Do you like filling out paperwork?

4.) Gotta love smiling to those jerk-offs every Monday morning... Need I say more?

5.) ...I hope you love your job and that you're not just an optimist. Sooner or later, that catches up with you. Eventually, you get tired of the corporate crap and all the lingo that comes with it--especially the slick willies who dress up every other Thursday with their suit and ties.

 

Now for the other side of the moon:

1.) Coming home everyday after you put in your 8 hours... Sounds great as long as you have a nice spread out in the middle of the woods.

2.) TV dinners and Budweiser is not what I call "brain food".

3.) I grew tired of the status-quo Grande-Am with the back bumper that has 2 or 3 dents and rust along the bottom. Oh, and don't forget the new catalytic converter that needs to be replaced (along with the broken windshield that Billy-Joe broke last night at the hotel bar during karaoke).

4.) There's always tomorrow for that remaining 2 or 3 years... Hey, we all need time to realize what we want to do with our lives.

5.) Still struggling with emotional issues you should have solved back in your twenties? Eh, just go put in some overtime and forget about it.

 

The point I'm making out of all this is that I've experienced both sides of the spectrum. What it boils down to is the fundamental lesson we all should know but never act on due to predisposition: do what you want and like! If you want to be someone who walks into an office each morning with coffee breath carrying an extra twenty or thirty you keep telling yourself you'll lose that year, hey, more power to ya! If you want to be a high school Harry playing with a car-car, more power to ya!

 

Personally, I think it's important to find a happy medium between the two and remember the lessons learned by that fat-butt and his big red stapler. I also think it's necessary to encourage education so that you shy away from TV shows known as "Jerry Springer".

 

Just for the record: I worked a single year in a professional, post-graduate career job, within a Fortune 500 office that lacks the screening power of a local video tape rental store, programming on mainframes, and it sucked. I'll kill myself before I ever do that again--but that's just me. Give me Wal-Mart any day over that junk (unless it's web design, then I'm game ). What? You have scheduled a status meeting at noon? Okay, I'll see ya there...

 

* Turns Noon *

 

"Hey, where's Wolf?"

[Creative]

Discuss. I don't understand the mentality of slaving away working many hours, traveling, stress, etc just to climb the almighty corporate ladder.

 

For repetitive work: They willingly think they're climbing ladders, but the truth is they don't have that much choices in life to find other joyful activity.

 

For visionary work: They want the feeling of success for having manifested something that works, and possibly gain acknowledgment from success.

 

And then there are some who just wants to "get money over with" and slave for financial freedom.

[CaptainPlanet]

Discuss. I don't understand the mentality of slaving away working many hours, traveling, stress, etc just to climb the almighty corporate ladder. I understand people need to make a decent living to retire, feed their family, etc, but I can't help but think a large portion of that desire is so they can have a better consumption filled lifestyle. Am I wrong?

 

Because it really is better at the top.

[JadedStar]

I find it strange that you start off promoting that people do what they want to do, then go on to make such a deragatory statement above in bold. IN other words, sure do what you want, but if you work for corporate you are likely overweight and miserable?

 

Gee, how funny then that I am extremely fit despite being 42 AND working for corporate. GASP! and guess what? Happy too!

 

I would no more stereotype corporate employees than i would those who want to work at walmart by saying they all must live in trailers.

 

Assumptions are ignorant no matter who it is you are assuming about.

[StrawberryYogurt]

What I am trying to get at is that we (America) are way overworked and overstressed. Every year, we work more and more hours which means obviously we don't have as much time for friends, families, hobbies; you know, all the things that make life worth living. Where is the balance?

 

I am all for achieving personal goals as I'm one who sets lots of goals and attains them, but there has to be balance. If you work many hours, how will you have time to devote to your family? How will you have time to relax? How will you have time to exercise? And so on and so on. It is simple math. Sleep is important, too.

 

Maybe making a little less money and working fewer hours is not such a bad thing. I'm doing that myself when I could be doing more and I'm happy as a clam.

[JadedStar]

What I am trying to get at is that we (America) are way overworked and overstressed. Every year, we work more and more hours which means obviously we don't have as much time for friends, families, hobbies; you know, all the things that make life worth living. Where is the balance?

 

I am all for achieving personal goals as I'm one who sets lots of goals and attains them, but there has to be balance. If you work many hours, how will you have time to devote to your family? How will you have time to relax? How will you have time to exercise? And so on and so on. It is simple math. Sleep is important, too.

 

Maybe making a little less money and working fewer hours is not such a bad thing. I'm doing that myself when I could be doing more and I'm happy as a clam.

 

 

I have climbed the ladder and did not sacrifice my family time, nor did i ever sacrifice time to exercise.

 

You can do this without working 80 hours a week. And in today's business world climbing the ladder is not going to be as attainable. Companies are not growing at the rate they once were. Today people are likely looking for lateral moves or staying in one role longer.

 

But if someone DOES want to put in the extra time to climb up why does it annoy someone else? Why do people continually get aggravated over things that do not affect him or her? I just never understood that. If I knew a person who was happy being at McD's his whole life, it is absolutely NONE of my business and I sure won't create a thread asking "why would anyone want to continue to flip burgers" because it is NONE of my business.

[StrawberryYogurt]

But if someone DOES want to put in the extra time to climb up why does it annoy someone else? Why do people continually get aggravated over things that do not affect him or her? I just never understood that. If I knew a person who was happy being at McD's his whole life, it is absolutely NONE of my business and I sure won't create a thread asking "why would anyone want to continue to flip burgers" because it is NONE of my business.

 

It is everyone's business. Think of it this way. If we are all expected to work more hours, of course it affects everyone. I don't see how continually working more and more hours with more and more stress is good for families (eg, less time with kids) . I also see a trickle down effect as well in that now we are expeceted to work more hours and be on call with our blackberries and laptops even on our vacation time. It's all pernicious, don't you see?

[JadedStar]

It is everyone's business. Think of it this way. If we are all expected to work more hours, of course it affects everyone. I don't see how continually working more and more hours with more and more stress is good for families (eg, less time with kids) . I also see a trickle down effect as well in that now we are expeceted to work more hours and be on call with our blackberries and laptops even on our vacation time. It's all pernicious, don't you see?

 

I think you might want to factor in the fact that with the economy the way it is companies can't even AFFORD to have people who coast in working 38 hours a week and commanding a high dollar rate. Be realistic. People are just happy to have a JOB right now.

[CaptainPlanet]

In answer to the question there are a few reasons.

 

Cultural. Your preference to work on certain projects. Financial gains. Improved working conditions. Or money.

 

The "climbing corporate ladder" is really misleading because it implies the only progress is up and in fact that is just not what corporates are about nowadays.

 

In truth, it is a corporate scaffold and modern businesses recognise that there is value on all vertical and horizontal levels of the scaffolding. Flat structures are the new pyramid and corporate stereotyping belongs in the 80s and 90s.

 

I don't understand. Would you be able to tell me what that means ?

[MollyElise]

I work in corporate america and plan on putzing along in it for the foreseeable future. I'm not trying to climb the ladder, I am going to try and do a good job. Hopefully I'll get some raises or promotions along the way. I have progressed over the years and feel that I am true to myself. I am happy and spend quality time with family and friends.

 

I work to pay the bills and make a living. I work to afford my lifestyle. It would be nice to make more money, but not worth the time and energy I would have to put towards my career.

 

It's about finding the right balance for you.

[JadedStar]

In answer to the question there are a few reasons.

 

Cultural. Your preference to work on certain projects. Financial gains. Improved working conditions. Or money.

 

 

 

I don't understand. Would you be able to tell me what that means ?

 

I think what melrich is saying is that climbing the corporate ladder as it once was is becoming a thing of the past. Companies are not growing and expanding at the rate they once were.

 

Today most people in corporate who like their job just go in and do the best job they can, go the extra mile, and if promotions and pay increase occur, good deal. If not, they still are continuing to do the best job they can in the meantime.

[StrawberryYogurt]

I think you might want to factor in the fact that with the economy the way it is companies can't even AFFORD to have people who coast in working 38 hours a week and commanding a high dollar rate. Be realistic. People are just happy to have a JOB right now.

 

Yes, but isn't it wrong for companies to expect you to be available via email or phone or even expect you to work on projects on your laptop when it's your freakin' vacation time? I mean, yes, I've done so to help out a fellow co-worker, but it's not expected of me and they feel really bad when they ask me, but at least it's not expected here. The rate we're going, it's like our vacation time won't even be vacation anymore.

[Ellie2006]

What I am trying to get at is that we (America) are way overworked and overstressed. Every year, we work more and more hours which means obviously we don't have as much time for friends, families, hobbies; you know, all the things that make life worth living. Where is the balance?

 

I am all for achieving personal goals as I'm one who sets lots of goals and attains them, but there has to be balance. If you work many hours, how will you have time to devote to your family? How will you have time to relax? How will you have time to exercise? And so on and so on. It is simple math. Sleep is important, too.

 

Maybe making a little less money and working fewer hours is not such a bad thing. I'm doing that myself when I could be doing more and I'm happy as a clam.

 

It's all about prioritizing. For some, working and advancing in your work outweighs the important of sleep and hobbies. And for all we know, maybe their hobby IS work and I dont think there's anything wrong with that.

[JadedStar]

Yes, but isn't it wrong for companies to expect you to be available via email or phone or even expect you to work on projects on your laptop when it's your freakin' vacation time? I mean, yes, I've done so to help out a fellow co-worker, but it's not expected of me and they feel really bad when they ask me, but at least it's not expected here. The rate we're going, it's like our vacation time won't even be vacation anymore.

 

My job is pretty high level and once in my 15 year career was I called during vacation and that was only because I was the only person who had an answer that was critically needed for a client.

 

All of this hoopla that you are screaming out does not exist for every corporate employee. Most companies today KNOW that the best benefit it can offer to its staff are the things that you can't put a pricetag on like work/life balance. Most corporations use this as part of their selling job to new candidates. I have been fortunate enough to work for two corporations that really do offer a strong work/life balance.

 

The world of corporate is changing, in many ways - some ways for the better and yes, some for the worst, but you are talking about the state of the corporate world as it was about five years ago. The structure isn't quite the same today. More and more companies even offer the chance to work remotely from home. Some have daycare providers on site to help people stay closer to their families.

 

The employees i knew who worked very late everyday were folks who really didn't have to. IF they prioritized their day better they could have gotten out of the office earlier. I worked late when it was necessary without whining about it but I can't say that was an everyday occurrence. But some sarcifices must be made here and there and I willingly made them, without complaining.

 

I am not sure where you are getting your info.

[StrawberryYogurt]

The world of corporate is changing, in many ways - some ways for the better and yes, some for the worst, but you are talking about the state of the corporate world as it was about five years ago. The structure isn't quite the same today. More and more companies even offer the chance to work remotely from home. Some have daycare providers on site to help people stay closer to their families.

 

I am not sure where you are getting your info.

 

Well, I've seen the numbers and number of hours worked has cleary gone up every year the past 25 years. Also, those who work from home work even more hours than those who don't according to the numbers. Also, now that we can work from home, bosses expect us to be available any time. I think you've been fortunate in your experience and so have I since I get paid very well for working but 37.5 hours a week, but that's not the case for many people out there.

[Wolf_22]

One reason I think it might be that people begin showing angst towards our overachievers around here is that they tend to be the people setting the benchmarks for others (the overachievers, I mean). There's a few things to consider with this idea, though:

 

- If you work with a company that provides mutual appreciation for your employment, then you will have opportunities for advancement.

 

- Companies pay for you, but, they also pay for many other things for the actual company itself.

 

Having said the above, if you work with a company that is somewhat respectable, then advancement is not really a matter of how, but instead, when. If you do your job accordingly, with enough time, you will eventually wind up receiving respectable product or earnings for your hard work. It's that simple.

 

When it gets complicated, though, is when you have a company that takes advantage of their employees. Usually, these are the companies that wind up being under the red line with things or running into project snags they lack the resources to fix. ...I was terminated from one such company, and boy-oh-boy, was it a hidden gift in the end!

 

Anyway, in the latter kind of organization, the people who "stand out" are the people who make the unnecessary benchmarks or general expectations for other employees that usually go unnoticed or unappreciated. Hey, it's not the achiever's fault, really, because after all, who doesn't want that big raise at the end of the year, ya know? But unfortunately, one person's success turns into another weak-link's pitfall.

 

It's just the way of the beast. It sucks, but there's not really any fundamental fix unless it involves unions, or seniority policies of some sort, or, other business implementations that escape me at the moment. The bad thing with this, too, though, is that if this is done with companies, then it takes away from people's chances who CAN do more and stand out. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater, right?

 

Pros and cons... Checks and balances... Yays or nays...

[Kinetics]

I don't understand why either. For those who really want to achieve their goals and get rewarded for it, that is fine.

 

But I am talking about people who just want to get up the ladder even if they got no brains or talent. These people see their peers as their stepping stone, they leech and kiss ass to their bosses and somehow they end up getting the promotion. To me, that just seems like greed and hunger for power and nothing else. That disgusts me. It just seems so petty and sad.

 

I've worked in many large coporations but I never thought of 'climbing the ladder' because there are many talentless idiots who are on top in the places I worked with. I get paid well enough with my position, I have a fairly good life vs. work balance, and I have other goals that are outside my work environment.

 

I guess for some people, working and climbing the ladder within that organization is the goal, but for me, a workplace is just a means to make ends meet. I set my goals outside of that organization, because there is whole world out there, and that company is nothing but just another company in the grand scheme of things.

 

I just think some people are too narrow minded, they can't see the world outside of their offices.

[Wolf_22]

Man, I wish more people thought more like you.

[CaptainPlanet]

A lot of this conversation stems from envy. People are resentful of those who have climbed the ladder because they were unable to themselves. I think there is also a touch of class envy because it is perfectly alright for people to put down people below them on the ladder. Yet, those higher than them are somehow scum. These people complaining about the corporate ladder are likely to view people in unskilled work with contempt and entitlement. You also have the corporate sheep-people who are equally at fault. Or those selfish and shallow enough to believe the mantra. I can't comment on those people. Maybe their brains were not allowed to properly develop.

 

When there is a ranking of employee's some don't feel appreciated. A person with a rewarding career who is given respect might not understand why one is bitterly trying to advance. A person who is not shown respect and not allowed to easily move laterally. When people get looked down on, and there is an ambitious and intelligent person. The reaction for that person is that one day you will have to look up at me and I will not be so kind as you.

[mgirl]

More on this later, but for now i will say. One thing i have noticed is that the more you earn, the more you are expected to spend. The more you earn, the more you're expected to spend on clothes and the better you're expected to look. And, of course, you're expected to drive a better car. It's like they want to see what they're getting for their money. If you have none of these things, you are frowned upon.

[thejigsup]

When you are in a professional position, you represent your company or organization. You are required to look good, you are one of the faces of the company! I dress very well, I am required to do that. I can't wear jeans or t-shirts when I teach. Suites are preferred. Dress shoes are required, also. Nails and hair should be done. You have to exude a sense of control and knowledge. If they pay you well, you SHOULD dress well. Since I love to dress up, it doesn't bother me. I actually approve of most dress codes. But I don't work just to work. I love what I do and truly believe I make a difference. That makes me very lucky. It just so happens I also make decent money, so it's a win/win kind of thing. I am not expected to drive any kind of car, in fact, my is over twenty-years-old. They don't care what I drive, as long as it gets me to work.