Our Actions Say We're Back Together, But I Want To Hear The Words

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Very well said...as well as Jaded and BeStrongs points.

[Hope75]

Yes, the title takes "readiness" too but in a different way than emotional and physical intimacy takes readiness. The former takes readiness to tell the world and yourself that you are closing off options of finding someone else, the latter takes the readiness you spoke about - about being willing not to guard your heart so much. If you're willing to be that vulnerable with someone as the OP's guy is being with her then how to explain the reluctance to label it? To me that reluctance is "I am willing to be vulnerable as long as I can keep one foot out the door in case someone better comes along"

 

You're right Batya, and just like some men and woman hesitate and balk at marriage until they feel completely ready, (but may be committed to their partner, even live with their partner and behave like a married couple will) they are just not at the point where they are ready to make what they view as the ultimate commitment and propose or marry them. Their actions are there, but they are just not ready to make that statement yet. That doesn't mean they definitely will, but it doesn't mean they never will, either. That is another form of 'moving slow' or 'taking caution', what I was talking about before. You put a finger right on what I was trying to say and said it beautifully, so thank you.

 

 

Great post Bestrong and i agree 150%!!!

 

We seem to have the same approach to advice giving it would seem. I use my gut and the most simplistic answer as well, but also the one that has the highest propensity. Not foolproof for sure but it's been accurate many times, but what some don't realize is it isn't always about accuracy. It is about a user getting as many takes as they possibly can on their situation so that they have a greater pond to fish from when they ask for advice.

 

This is exactly how I feel about the advice I have offered too. My gut tells me that letting this play out a bit more may result in what the OP is looking for. Could I be wrong? Yes. Could I be right? Yes. I can't predict the future any more than anyone here can. In reality, both are possibilities and only time will tell which will play out.

 

I think us arguing/defending our positions really isn't helping the OP anymore, so I am going to bow out as well. I've said what I wanted to say and the OP can take it or leave it.

 

OP, I hope you will come back and up date us as to how things are going, since obviously many strong ENA members feel passionately about this situation!

[melrich]

Even if he said, "yeah we're back together" - nothing really would have changed or be different. Why do I want to hear him say it?

 

I don't know? Does anyone ever say that? It's not something I would be comfortable saying....what are the words that start a relationship? I have never used them?

 

I have not read all this thread but I get the jist of the "debate".

 

For what it's worth, aside from this matter, are you happy? Is a long term relationship with this guy what you want? If the answer is "yes" then I would certainly not be throwing the relationship away, it seems he wants to take things slowly, maybe no bad thing, its only been 3 months.

 

Sometimes men commit in their own ways, beyond the words "Be my girlfriend"...which I for one have never said or paraphrased in words.

 

At the end of the day, if this is something you want then I don't think you are over investing by going with the flow for a while yet.

[DN]

I think that people are assuming way too much in a negative way about this guys intentions based on far too little information and ignoring all of his positives. It seems to me that assumptions are being made and generalisations used to justify predictions of specific behaviour and when that could really impact someone's relationship that seems to me to be both unfair and unwise.

 

It is interesting that the OP posted about her feelings (which we assume must be true) and yet people are posting almost exclusively about his (which can only be guessed at) - and for people to claim some sort of superior insight into his is also unwise. No one has a better 'gut' instinct about someone they have never met in any shape or form that anyone else. So it seems to be the wisest course is for the OP to give this guy the chance to show that he will continue to move in the direction she wants him to - it's only three months.

 

I also think that people are making far too much of an issue about the fact they are having sex. As the OP pointed out - people are assuming he was the one who initiated sexual activity. And I assume she is also a willing participant.

 

It seems so often that people make assumptions about sex based on their own moral code and seek to impose that on others - or to draw conclusions based on it at least. They hear of a couple having sex without commitment and assume all sorts of things - he is taking advantage of her, she is giving it away for no return and so on. But those same people who seem to disapprove of sex with commitment seem to forget that it isn't long ago (within my lifetime) that similar or even more disapproval would have been expressed for a woman who had sex before marriage - even if it was with her fiancé - and in some parts of the world that is still true. Times and attitudes change and it is well to keep up to date and not make assumptions about other people that may not apply in a different time frame and different mindset.

[JadedStar]

 

 

 

This is exactly how I feel about the advice I have offered too. My gut tells me that letting this play out a bit more may result in what the OP is looking for. Could I be wrong? Yes. Could I be right? Yes. I can't predict the future any more than anyone here can. In reality, both are possibilities and only time will tell which will play out.

 

I think us arguing/defending our positions really isn't helping the OP anymore, so I am going to bow out as well. I've said what I wanted to say and the OP can take it or leave it.

 

OP, I hope you will come back and up date us as to how things are going, since obviously many strong ENA members feel passionately about this situation!

 

 

Difference is you don't have people slamming your post as negative simply becuse it is a different opinion from their own. I personally find that insulting and a waste of the OP's thread and a waste of everyone's time. It takes more energy to insult someone's brand of post then it does to just be quiet about it and post their own advice on the topic. There is nothing wrong with banter back and forth with posters of other viewpoints but the ones that say they are sick of all the negative posts - well quite frankly those kinds of posts detract from the quality of the thread.

 

I have stated over and over I do not have a personal stake in the outcome here. Whether I am right or you and those in your camp is not the point. The point is LET EVERYONE give their take without being hassled by others. (not you personally but those who keep interjecting with their negative comments about others posts)

[JadedStar]

I have made no assumptions based on gender and not sure why this assumption is being made. Nothing at all in my posts nor even in the posts by those members who are in agreement iwth me have a thing to do with gender. I know you have a passion against generalizations, hence your thread, but you are looking for a smoking gun on this thread that doesn't exist. I am extremely unbiased when I post and do not look at things like gender or even put my own circumstance to large into play becuase I know the OP's who post here are unique and not lived in my shoes. I will play devil's advocate and say that i think the inverse here happens all too often - an OPs situation is similar to one's own and they passionately think the outcome must thereforee be very similar. This is rare that this happens.

 

That said, what is wrong with giving your take wihotut saying others are genearlizing? I have not generalized anything and am really scratching my head about the declaration.

 

You say we have not focused on the OP's feelings. I disagree, i think some of the others have not because she wrote this thread becasue she had a PROBLEM wiht the lack of commitment. It seems some have disregarded that fact that if she didn't have a problem with it the thread would not have been created. Her feelings were clear when she wrote her post, and yes they absolutely WERE considered.

 

Bottomline i am respectful of the fact that some of you think everything is peachy and that she should do nothing. All i ask is that those of us who have a differnet take just be allowed to give our opinion that was expressed respectfully and tactfully and let the OP decide what sounds right to her.

[Hope75]

Difference is you don't have people slamming your post as negative simply becuse it is a different opinion from their own. I personally find that insulting and a waste of the OP's thread and a waste of everyone's time. It takes more energy to insult someone's brand of post then it does to just be quiet about it and post their own advice on the topic.

 

I have stated over and over I do not have a personal stake in the outcome here. Whether I am right or you and those in your camp is not the point. The point is LET EVERYONE give their take without being hassled by others. (not you personally but those who keep interjecting with their negative comments about others posts)

 

You're right, some people called your advice negative. However, I wasn't one of them, and my advice, and advice like it encouraging the OP to give her guy more time, was termed 'Pollyanna'. So it goes both ways. It doesn't matter if we agree or if DN, CAD, Annie, BSBH or anyone else agrees. The only one taking the advice (or not) is the OP. Ultimately it's her decision, and she will face the consequences of the outcome, not us.

[Batya33]

I agree that the title takes emotional readiness for some people as well. My point was that it's of concern that he wants all the benefits of coupledom without the title. That's all.

 

I agree that she should give it some more time.

 

In all my relationships, there was a discussion about where we stood - typically because the man wanted to make sure that I wasn't seeing other people AND that I was willing to stop looking. Once in awhile the conversation came up because of wanting to be s_xual and the STD and other ramifications of that decision. The men who really wanted to be serious with me raised the issue of our "status" unconnected to our "physical" progression.

 

When my SO and I reconnected 8 years after we broke up, we got together three times platonically. During the third time he sat me down and asked if I thought it was a good idea to give the relationship another chance. We decided to get together the next time he was in town (two weeks later) and have a real date, and take it from there.

 

After that date, which went very well, he again asked me what my thinking was about going forward, especially since we would be long distance at that time. He wanted to make sure that we were exclusive because otherwise the long distance effort might not be worth it to him or he would want to give it more thought. I really respected his directness on the issue of "us".

 

I don't presume to know what the OP's guy feels but his actions are clear, at least to me, that he does not want to be committed to her at this time. Of course, this could change.

[DN]

I have made no assumptions based on gender and not sure why this assumption is being made. Nothing at all in my posts nor even in the posts by those members who are in agreement iwth me have a thing to do with gender. I know you have a passion against generalizations, hence your thread, but you are looking for a smoking gun on this thread that doesn't exist. I am extremely unbiased when I post and do not look at things like gender or even put my own circumstance to large into play becuase I know the OP's who post here are unique and not lived in my shoes.

 

That said, what is wrong with giving your take wihotut saying others are genearlizing? I have not generalized anything.

Why are you assuming I am talking about you?

 

My main concern here is that the OP is not persuaded to view her boyfriend in an unfairly prejudicial light and jeopardise her relationship. What other people write is up to them.

[JadedStar]

You're right, some people called your advice negative. However, I wasn't one of them, and my advice, and advice like it encouraging the OP to give her guy more time, was termed 'Pollyanna'. So it goes both ways. It doesn't matter if we agree or if DN, CAD, Annie, BSBH or anyone else agrees. The only one taking the advice (or not) is the OP. Ultimately it's her decision, and she will face the consequences of the outcome, not us.

 

I agree. But yet slams are still being created against those who thought differnetly. It is confusing and perplexing to say the least.

 

And because it is moderators who are disagreeing vehmently and since they have more power here than users it can make the reader assume that theirs is the right answer, when in fact there are no right answers here. NOt that we know personally anyway.

 

If i am not mistaken a poster only mentioned pollyanna posting when her advice was slammed. But i might be mistaken.

[JadedStar]

Why are you assuming I am talking about you?

 

My main concern here is that the OP is not persuaded to view her boyfriend in an unfairly prejudicial light and jeopardise her relationship. What other people write is up to them.

 

Your post was referenced to those on the opposite stance. Whether your post was to me or the other posters it was incorrect because I didn't see any of them that were gender biased.

[Hope75]

I agree. But yet slams are still being created against those who thought differnetly. It is confusing and perplexing to say the least.

 

And because it is moderators who are disagreeing vehmently and since they have more power here than users it can make the reader assume that theirs is the right answer, when in fact there are no right answers here.

 

If i am not mistaken a poster only mentioned pollyanna posting when her advice was slammed. But i might be mistaken.

 

Moderator's advice shouldn't have any more power than other members. All we do it make sure everyone follows the rules. We are just as human as the rest of you. Trust me, the 'us' vs. 'them' mentality that goes a long with being a moderator gets old fast. I am just a regular person who volunteers to help the rules be reinforced. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

And it doesn't matter who slung the first insult, both viewpoints were attacked. We are all adults here (or we are supposed to be.)

[JadedStar]

We are all adults here (or we are supposed to be.)

 

Which is why I was disturbed that more emphasis was placed on who was saying what vs everyone just giving their take on it.

 

And even tho you don't believe it, nor do I, it is an assumption of readers that a moderator's post will hold more weight. it is a paradigm we won't be able to change just because we know its incorrect.

[diamond78]

Which is why I was disturbed that more emphasis was placed on who was saying what vs everyone just giving their take on it.

 

 

 

 

really? As I have found that you are the main poster harping on this same topic!!

 

I don't even know what this thread is about anymore....it seems to be more now about your feelings on being described as negative. You have made your case and we all get it. Now can we please bring the topic back to the OP and HER concerns and not about who is negative/positive and right/wrong?? :sad:

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You're right, some people called your advice negative. However, I wasn't one of them, and my advice, and advice like it encouraging the OP to give her guy more time, was termed 'Pollyanna'. So it goes both ways. It doesn't matter if we agree or if DN, CAD, Annie, BSBH or anyone else agrees. The only one taking the advice (or not) is the OP. Ultimately it's her decision, and she will face the consequences of the outcome, not us.

 

 

It was me who used Pollyanna..and yes I did because of the slamming of the so-called "negative" advice. The Pollyanna comment had absolutely nothing to do with people who were suggesting that the OP give her guy more time...in fact, I also suggested that she give her guy another month and see what happens. My reference to Pollyanna was about the posts referring to how peachy and everything is coming up roses her "relationship" is. I don't see her relationship as peachy and I agree with Jaded...that we have in fact been addressing her problem because the OP is clearly not happy with things and she is feeling uncomfortable with the situation. That is what we have been addressing..we have actually been on her side supporting her...support doesn't only come from saying "everything looks great and it will all turn out peachy" some of us feel something is amiss with this relationship and we are voicing our opinion on that.

[JadedStar]

really? As I have found that you are the main poster harping on this same topic!!

 

I don't even know what this thread is about anymore....it seems to be more now about your feelings on being described as negative. You have made your case and we all get it. Now can we please bring the topic back to the OP and HER concerns and not about who is negative/positive and right/wrong??

 

 

Thanks for your feedback. What you view as "harping" is my building irritation to the fact that when some perceive feedback to be negative they police the thread. If i went on for a few posts it was that frustration you heard - it doesn't just happen on this thread. And in case you didn't notice, i was responding back and forth to several posts that were addressing my own - it was dialogue.

 

I have seen threads derailed in manners far less productive than this, so thanks but I felt i needed to say a few things and did not do it disrespectfully.

 

I have given the OP a lot of advice on the actual topic so it isn't like I have not contributed to the conversation at hand. But that being said, my time on this thread has run its course. I wish the OP well and hope for a positive outcome whether it be with this man, or not, because staying with someone is not always the best outcome if the relatinoship is not heading in the desired direction. IF they can work it out, obviously that is great and goes without saying. No one wants to see people break up here if it can be avoided.

[DN]

OK - I think everyone has made their point. Please restrict further posts to the OP's original question.

[25thfloor]

just because you are 'acting' like you are together, don't assume anything. i'd talk to him about where he stands about the relationship being exclusive.

 

Bingo. they do this so they don't have to 'break up' with you. right now he's getting everything...and you're suffering.

 

if exclusive isn't spoken, don't assume that he is. i personally hate limbo. no good has ever come out of it for me.

 

it's as if he's controlling you by not saying anything.

[Stella Sleepwalks]

BD - I think I was in the same situation as your guy....

 

I wanted him back, he wanted me back. He asked me could we try again, and I couldn't answer him because he had hurt me so badly.

 

I decided that things had to slow down. We had not spoken or seen each other in 3 months which is not a very long time granted, but my mind had wandered and over-analysed everything that had happened between us. I needed to make sure he wasn't going to hurt me again...does that make sense?

 

So anyway, he never got his answer. The answer was yes, as I had seen such a wonderful side to him, the guy I met, but he'd hurt me (not in the same ways you hurt him), and I didn't want to experience that pain again.

 

When he didn't get an answer within a few weeks, he pulled back. Became distant etc. Basically, he threw it away because he didn't get the words. We would hang out and kiss, (no sex), hold hands, I would talk to his mum on the phone and I re-built that relationship. We would talk on the phone etc, and then after a couple of months.... He kinda friendzoned and whether that was because he felt that is all I wanted, or because that is what he wanted that's the way it went. We were friends for 5 months, and now we are NC because he hurt me again with his behaviour. But I am ok.

 

Good things come to those who wait. As someone who you might describe as being "burned" I still believe in reconcilliation

 

Follow your instincts about this guy. He sounds a decent fellow. Give him time, some women wait a lifetime for a guy to put up a set of shelves or mow the lawn! Saying I love you, or I want us to get serious is a big step for anyone, so let it happen naturally.

The more you push him, the more he will back off. That is what I did. He expected oo much too soon, when all I wanted to do was re-build and see for myself that he had learned that the way he treated me before was unacceptable.

 

My only caution is only put in the same effort as he does. Keep your life balanced and enjoy your times together, without wondering "what is he thinking?"

 

You have always been such a lovely spirit on the board. ENA needs more like you, although I hope everything works out for you and you won't need to visit again.

 

Love Stella xxx

[blue_dahlia]

My goodness! There's a lot of feelings and passion in this thread and it has grown tremendously since my last post. I must admit that it became very overwhelming; so many points of view - some negative, although I understood everyone's heart was in the right place i.e. to protect and support a fellow ENA member. Regardless, it was just too much to process so I took time away.

 

K and I are back together. On November 11 he told me that he loved me, which absolutely shocked me. I asked him when he knew and he said that he always knew.

 

K is a genuine man. He's loyal, kind and generous. This is why I did not give up on us; I understood that his actions were questionable, not because he's deceitful or shifty, but because he was scared and protective of his heart. However, I knew his character and that gave me strength. I was patient. I truly feel that patience is a huge part of the puzzle, as well LC/NC and lowering your expectations.

[blue_dahlia]

You have always been such a lovely spirit on the board. ENA needs more like you, although I hope everything works out for you and you won't need to visit again.

 

Love Stella xxx

 

Thank you, Stella for your very kind words. I truly wish you and everyone the absolute best in life.