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Our Actions Say We're Back Together, But I Want To Hear The Words


blue_dahlia

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These days you don't need to married, or committed to be having sex and going on vacation, right?

 

What is it that they are doing? They are spending time together and they are enjoying each other's company. Yes, they are having sex, yes, they went on vacation. Does that mean they will end up married? No. Does it mean they are doomed for failure? No.

 

I went on holiday and had sex with my husband when we were broken up and not officially together and we got back together and got married. So in my experience, it can work.

 

Yes, but you have to look at the bigger picture of how her relationships has been going...his reaction to things, his constant pulling away...her constant uncertainty about whether or not he was going to contact her and what does it mean when he says this, doesn't call etc...there is a whole history here which is NOT the same history as you and your partner. It may have worked out for you but the dynamics were not the same. It is not just about the sex and vacations...it is the whole 9 yards about how these two have related to each other and the angst which has been a part of this relationship from day 1. He was using corny, clichéd lines on her from the time they ran into each other and she fell for it hook line and sinker. This is not a man who was taking things slowly...he rushed into the reconciliation part...the only thing he is taking slowly is the status of being official...in other words, she has a man in her life with whom she has dates, vacations and sex, but she can't really call him her boyfriend because he has refused to give the relationship official status...he is simply someone she is dating.

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I am basing my opinions on the information she provided as well, and yes of course my own relationship experience plays a part in the advice I give. But I have also been in relationships where it failed and didn't work out.

 

It's really all about what the OP is comfortable with, not what we predict and project is happening here.

 

She is free to leave at any time, or to stay and feel things out for awhile more because she cares for him, and enjoys the time they spend together.

 

 

I agree with the bolded part above and have stated that in this thread prior. It is all about what SHE can handle and what she cannot.

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For the record, it gets really old when someone posts against the flow and it is called negative.

 

For the record, it's not just going against the flow that gets people's blood boiling. It's more the tone, the jaded view of relationships, the insisting he's evil or just in it for sex, the generalizations, etc. That's what gets old.

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For the record, it's not just going against the flow that gets people's blood boiling. It's more the tone, the jaded view of relationships, the insisting he's evil or just in it for sex, the generalizations, etc. That's what gets old.

 

The people who do not have the Pollyanna viewpoint in this thread are not jaded about relationships...far from it...they have all had positive and encouraging things to say in other threads. In this thread they are seeing something that doesn't sit right and they are vocalizing it..that doesn't make them jaded just because they disagree with your viewpoint.

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For the record, it's not just going against the flow that gets people's blood boiling. It's more the tone, the jaded view of relationships, the insisting he's evil or just in it for sex, the generalizations, etc. That's what gets old.

 

Well it gets old to me the posts that cheer something on that has no basis, but I try to let people respond how they feel.

 

We don't need to be told how to respond to people if we are not being disrespectful.

 

When the situation dictates a very positive response, I give it. And have no qualms doing so.

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Yes, but you have to look at the bigger picture of how her relationships has been going...his reaction to things, his constant pulling away...

 

i don't see that he is pulling away - quite the opposite - she stated that they have really grown closer these last few months. she said that in the first post.

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Yes, but you have to look at the bigger picture of how her relationships has been going...his reaction to things, his constant pulling away...her constant uncertainty about whether or not he was going to contact her and what does it mean when he says this, doesn't call etc...there is a whole history here which is NOT the same history as you and your partner. It may have worked out for you but the dynamics were not the same. It is not just about the sex and vacations...it is the whole 9 yards about how these two have related to each other and the angst which has been a part of this relationship from day 1.

 

Of course it's not the same as my situation. You really don't know the details of my situation other than what I provided here, but you are right, we are different people and it is a different situation. However, from what she said at the top of this thread, he calls her, he initiates plans, he brought her to see his friends, they've planned vacation together, and they spend a few days a week together. They had some problems in the relationship and they broke up. Obviously things weren't working the way it was before. So they broke up. Now, they are dating, and working towards having a better and more healthy relationship. Does breaking up mean there's no chance of a relationship ever working out again? Does it mean that neither partner can ever realize they made mistakes, and work on it?

 

I brought up the sex and vacations because you seemed to be saying that they couldn't possibly be forming a committed relationship if they were having sex or going away on vacation before they were officially boyfriend and girlfriend. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

 

It just seems like a lot to presume that his intentions are no good and rule out the possibility that he might genuinely care about her and want to have a relationship with her. Based on what she describes now, that is the feeling that I get. Could I be wrong? Sure. But maybe I am not wrong. Relationships are not and never were an exact science. Feelings are not objective, or easily controlled.

 

Again I refer back to the advice we tend to give about proceeding with caution and guarding your heart- which is exactly what he is doing. But he's being honest with the OP about what he can give her right now and she is, for now, accepting that with open eyes, knowing there are no guarantees, but wanting to take the chance that it could continue to develop into something more.

 

I'm not telling her to close a blind eye to the past or forget how things were. Only suggesting that she give it some time, and see how she feels about things in a few months. I don't think that is terribly unreasonable.

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Honestly, I don't see the 'basis' for some of the claims that are being made against this man. All I see are alot of generalizations, and one-size fits all advice.

 

I guess I should've 'bowed out' awhile ago on this thread.

 

Okay, I am not trying to be difficult here, but I admit sometimes I lack patience. The thing i am saying is I do not feel anything i said on this thread was overtly negative, merely pragmatic given the information, so thereforee i do get a little frustrated when the thread police come out. Nothing personal, I only post in response to what is written.

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Well it gets old to me the posts that cheer something on that has no basis, but I try to let people respond how they feel.

 

We don't need to be told how to respond to people if we are not being disrespectful.

 

When the situation dictates a very positive response, I give it. And have no qualms doing so.

 

 

really?.....so the fact they have been dating for 3 months has no basis, however your claims that he has someone on the side, that he's using her and that he's out for revenge does?.......please elaborate.

 

it's ok to be jaded, but perhaps you should provide that disclaimer before each post you make so we can clarify the basis on which you give your advice

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What has no basis?

 

I am referring to some cheerleader posts on ENA that i may not agree with but that I leave alone because I understand not everyone has the same perosnality that i do. Not necessarily on this thread. My point was towards the post policing that was going on by non moderators.

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I'm not telling her to close a blind eye to the past or forget how things were. Only suggesting that she give it some time, and see how she feels about things in a few months. I don't think that is terribly unreasonable.

 

That is exactly the advice I gave her many posts ago as well..to revisit the question in a month and see if his answer changes. I never said dump the guy right now...however, what I am doing is pointing out the issues in a way that is more in your face rather than muted...there are enough people downplaying the negatives and building up the relationship that there needs to be a balance to show that the negatives are indeed very important to look at so that an INFORMED decision can be made...one based on seeing all sides, not just the feel good side.

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really?.....so the fact they have been dating for 3 months has no basis, however your claims that he has someone on the side, that he's using her and that he's out for revenge does?.......please elaborate.

 

I would thank you in advance not to put words in my mouth. I never said he had someone on the side, was using her, or out for revenge so I won't even respond to that. read my posts please.

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really?.....so the fact they have been dating for 3 months has no basis, however your claims that he has someone on the side, that he's using her and that he's out for revenge does?.......please elaborate.

 

Nobody ever said that these things are definitely happening..they are simply saying these are POSSIBILITIES...just like it is possible that he means to solidify the relationship into something official, it is also possible that he is using her. Only HE knows what is going on...for everyone else on this thread, including the ones who think everything is promising....nobody really knows. The OP needs to see and understand BOTH points of view, both possibilities because she is certainly being left in the dark by this guy...and three months of being left in the dark about your relationship status even when you are acting like a couple is not a very comfortable situation to be in.

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Wow, this is quite a thread here.

 

You can say you understand and appreciate how hard it was when you left and you are sorry for that. But you have learned since then, are here now, and you aren't going anywhere. Make sure that is absolutely clear. Say the words. Ask him what he needs from you, and not what you want from him. He is afraid, and he is being open about that. Make him feel safe and understood. Don't worry so much about him giving you a tangible commitment yet. He may sense that is an issue for you, so you may need to let go of that first before it happens.

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Because I don't agree that he is being cautious or proceeding slowly or carefully - his actions are intimate, close, connected, integrating her into his life - full speed ahead as far as his actions.

 

But, he's not willing to put his money where his mouth is and express that they are committed - to me that is a big difference, a difference not based on "I'm not ready" but based on "I want to keep my options open in case something better comes along". And that is even if he is not looking in the least - it's a mindset, just like you know you feel differently now having the title of husband and wife - if you weren't married but playing house, you would feel differently than if you had the title, and both you and your husband know this (I am referring to your post on another thread). Hope, I could not agree with you more on the difference the title makes, whether that title is "exclusive" or "married".

 

Yes, the title takes "readiness" too but in a different way than emotional and physical intimacy takes readiness. The former takes readiness to tell the world and yourself that you are closing off options of finding someone else, the latter takes the readiness you spoke about - about being willing not to guard your heart so much. If you're willing to be that vulnerable with someone as the OP's guy is being with her then how to explain the reluctance to label it? To me that reluctance is "I am willing to be vulnerable as long as I can keep one foot out the door in case someone better comes along"/

 

If his actions were slow and careful "let's see each other once a week for dinner, let's talk a few times a week, and then in a few months let's see where we get" I would have the same opinion as you do.

 

Obviously I don't know the OP either or her SO, this is just my opinion.

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I absolutely and unequivocally agree and this is exactly what I have felt reading ALL of her posts. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but my gut is so strong on this one and feeling exactly what you wrote above. This is not about negativity. So funny that some people see it that way. This is about trying to steer a fellow ENA'er in a direction that to me seems the right way to go. I have no stake in giving her advice from one stance or another, so it baffles me why some are coming up with the negative nelly comments. But anyhoo....

 

What she does is up to her, but I won't tell her something I don't believe to be the case just to keep in tune with the masses.

 

I wish her the best of luck> I sincerely do.

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I try to use Occam's razor when giving advice... the most likely (simplest) explanation for the scenario is usually the most accurate. You eliminate all the less likely scenarios and usually that is what is going on. People are emotional and filled with many hopes (and fears) that frequently skew interpretations of anything. They want someone badly, so the tiniest little activity can be viewed as an indication of true love. Or they are afraid of something, and the tiniest little event can be viewed as something terrible. You need to try to look at the behavior in context, and based on likelihoods.

 

So if a person enjoys being with you, goes out with you, sleeps with you, but refuses to acknowledge you as his girlfriend? Then it means he doesn't want a serious relationship or commitment right now, for whatever reason. The reason behind that you won't know until you have more evidence to base your opinion on.

 

If you have more information on the situation, i.e., he says he doesn't want to say you're in a relationship, and he is a person who rarely has serious relationships and has never been married even though he is middle aged, perhaps the reason he doesn't want to be in a relationship right now is that being in serious relationships doesn't work for him over time. It scares him, or is a lifestyle he doesn't want to live, at least right now.

 

Or it could be that he is scared right now, but the OP is exactly the women he needs to overcome that fear and commit, even though 10 other women have tried.

 

When i give my advice, i ask, what is the mostly likely situation given the information i've been given?

 

So I think all parties could be right in their advice, but you need to keep looking at the situation as you get more information, and when you have enough information, then proper decisions can be made.

 

There is WAY too much focus on this board these days on people slamming other people for giving advice they don't like. If it is interpreted as something they don't like, then they say it is 'negative' and hence not good advice. They want cheerleaders, not other perspectives. And there is no one single good advice, as all advice makes you think and consider other possibilities that might lead to some form of enlightenment on the situation.

 

But honestly, if someone hears a bomb ticking in the room and says, i think i hear a bomb ticking, that may be perceived as 'negative' advice to someone who assumes it just a clock ticking, and can't wrap their mind around the idea that it might be a bomb (or the thought of a bomb scares them). but it could be a bomb or a clock. If you see the clock, walk up to it and hear it ticking, then maybe it is a clock, but if the clock is wired to a briefcase, then you'd better run.

 

So in isolation of other evidence, some people hear a bomb, some hear a clock, and others will hear it as a metaphor for time running out, or others a s the sound of angels telling them they've just met their one true love. We ALL interpret reality based on our frame of reference, and the truth lies in there somewhere, if people would only listen and look for more evidence of what is really going on.

 

So i think people should focus less on the clock vs. bomb scenarios, and try to give their advice and let the OP make their evaluation of whether the advice is useful, and don't slam someone for giving their opinion, which may or may not prove right over time.

 

As the old saying goes, take what you need, and leave the rest.

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Great post Bestrong and i agree 150%!!!

 

We seem to have the same approach to advice giving it would seem. I use my gut and the most simplistic answer as well, but also the one that has the highest propensity. Not foolproof for sure but it's been accurate many times, but what some don't realize is it isn't always about accuracy. It is about a user getting as many takes as they possibly can on their situation so that they have a greater pond to fish from when they ask for advice.

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