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Apologies = good or bad? A serious question


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I don't want to tell the story behind my question. Let's just say I made a girl really mad on Friday night. Prior to this, we've been hanging out around 6 hours a day, plus a few sleepovers over the last few weeks. Today, I actually got some work done (since we aren't hanging out). But now I feel a bit empty.

 

Actually, we had a fight last Friday, too. That was a big fight. But compared to this one, it was nothing.

 

I'm thinking that she got mad for one of the following reasons:

 

1. I have a really good life, and I was rubbing it on her face.

2. She is paying for all our entertainment. Plus, she got me a few gifts. But she isn't getting enough of what she wants - my attention.

3. I said that she was flat-chested, with a figure like a tin soldier. I said she was fairly attractive, but completely unremarkable. I said I was attracted to her, because she was hard to get. I also said that I would pay more attention to her only if we had sex.

4. Hanging out too much with me is ruining her grades.

 

At first, I thought (3) was the main reason. Since it was one of the last things I said before our big fight. But now I doubt it. First, when I asked her, she denied it. And plus, I always make fun of her for not having sex with me. It's nothing new.

 

Then, I thought it might be (1), because it was our second last topic of conversation. I asked her if she was jealous of me, on account of my self-confidence and wonderful life. She said yes. And we had the same conversation before. It led to the smaller fight last Friday.

 

(2) is possible, because when I asked her if she felt I was taking advantage of her, she said, a little. She complains that I never pay attention to her when she talks about her favourite topics of conversation.

 

But aside from that, last Sunday, we had bubble tea at this wonderful bubble-tea establishment, where they serve authentic bubble tea. Anyway, we had a moment. I was so moved by her. I was really impressed with her from last Saturday night onward till Tuesday night. Maybe this sense of intense connection is what she is looking for. Yesterday, I mostly ignored her when I was hanging out with my friends. Maybe she was disappointed.

 

(4) is very possible. She says that I am a bad influence on her. I thought she was joking. Maybe she really meant it.

 

The most cryptic thing she said was "I'm actually mad at myself for hanging out with you."

 

See, she got mad at me while we were on the bus. I realised how mad she was when she said, "Leave me alone." I wanted to say, "Well, no one forced you to hang out with me." But I didn't (otherwise I would have regretted it). Then I asked her why she was mad. She said, "You have three other girls. Why don't you play around with them." I said, "But I don't care about them." She laughed, but I couldn't tell whether it was a good laugh or a bad laugh.

 

So anyway, she calmed down after a while. I could tell because she started speaking to me, and because her voice softened. She asked me whether I still wanted her to teach me the Taiwanese folk song I wanted to learn. I said yes. Then I said, "Sometimes I take things too far. I want to be good to you. If I hurt you somehow, I want you to know that I didn't mean it." Then she responded with that cryptic comment.

 

I plan to call her tomorrow (Sunday). I'll ask her to have 15 minutes of coffee. I asked a very wise woman about apologies. She said, "If you know you were wrong, then you should apologise. If you weren't wrong, or if you aren't sure, then you should not apologise. Instead, you should be a good listener and hear what she wants to say."

 

Seems like good advice. So I'm going to do that.

 

Any views?

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An apology can't hurt anymore than what you've said already... Why not...But one question, why do you say and act in such hurtful ways towards this woman? Is it because you aren't having sex? I hate to say it, because I'm sure you're a great person that treats people with respect for the most part, but this behavior can be described as emotional, and sometimes, verbal abuse.

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my advice:

 

1) if you want to be good to this girl dump the other three

 

2)never say anything that isnt positive about a girl's appearance. now if you had told her 7 or 8 times that you like flat chested girls and she remembered it and then you told her that she was flat chested... you'd still be in the dog house. so dont do it

 

3) girls may say that they only want apologies when you know you are wrong but they actually want apologies whenever they feel like you are wrong. so apologize out your butt for everything you did. even if she says the sky is red and you say no its blue, if she's mad at you apologize for it.

 

4)6 hrs a day is a lot to be spending with someone. you might want to cut it down to 1-2 hrs a day and then maybe 6-7 hrs in one day 2 or 3 times a month

 

5) i hope you have better luck with this then you've been having

 

o and just as a little side note even if you normally joke around about her not having sex with you, i'd stop. it may be just a joke and not meant as anything more but if you want to have a relationship with her she will start to feel like you would love her more if she had sex with you and then you'd be getting pitty sex. which basically means she is selling her body to you for love. (never good)

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5. All of the above, plus you're treating her poorly and acting like a jerk.

 

That's not to say that you ARE a jerk. I don't know you from Adam. But, based entirely on the information in your post, and other posts you've written on this site, your actions are consistent with being a complete and total jerk.

 

Have you considered dropping this "pick up artist" persona and becoming a gentleman? Every gentleman I've had the pleasure of encountering was smooth... gently teasing instead of obnoxiously insulting... wise and intellectual, not arrogantly enamored of his own opinions... confidently sensual, not a horny little boy.

 

Something to consider.

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I figure I should explain what I consider to be the actions of a "jerk," lest you think that I'm trying to insult you.

 

1. Arrogance. You have a great life. Good for you. Arrogance is an attitude of superiority. Constantly talking about your great life, and showing no interest in her own life, is arrogant.

 

2. Insulting. Telling her again and again that she has a flat chest? Honey, a woman's breasts are FANTASTIC, regardless of size or shape. F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C. I'm surprised she didn't kick you to the curb based on those comments alone.

 

I can't even comment on the "you'll pay more attention to her once you have sex." Seriously... it blows my mind.

 

3. Playing games. It's fine to see other people until you establish that you are a couple. But if you brag about the other girls you're "playing" with, she's on to you. She sees that you're using those other girls to make yourself seem like a more valuable commodity.

 

4. Being a bum by not pulling your weight. I'm talking specifically about her ALWAYS paying for stuff. She's not a meal ticket. She's a woman.

 

I feel like I could go on and on, but I'm not sure how receptive you are to (constructive) criticism. Oh well.

 

YS

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Such conflicting views: Maelstrom X vs. Dan 10.

 

Keefy,

 

By the way..her saying she is mad at herself for hanging out with you seems to be because she knows you're mean to her. If you aren't careful, she will be gone, and you will not be able to apologize enough to get her back.

 

Yes, I fear I won't get her back. But they say that in love and friendship, the one who is more willing to leave has the greater power. It's a fine balance.

 

Yellow_sweater

 

2. Insulting. Telling her again and again that she has a flat chest? Honey, a woman's breasts are FANTASTIC, regardless of size or shape. F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C. I'm surprised she didn't kick you to the curb based on those comments alone.

 

I've been making fun of her for regularly. I think she enjoys it.

 

Anyway, I actually prefer flat-chested women. But I pretended not to, just to get at her.

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Yellow, both of your posts were right on the money. I know the whole "cocky and funny" and "treating people like they are beneath you so they'll crave you" routines in the field of dating. That is the garbage going on here and its being done totally wrong. The "pick up artist" is ALWAYS a gentleman, however, he also does not allow anyone, woman or otherwise, to dictate or define his life. He is comfortable in his own skin and doesn't get his kicks off of making others feel bad about themselves. The key to "banging out" women lies in making her feel good about herself in your presense. You are not going to get a woman to feel good about herself by discussing her chest. Regardless of what you say. Even if you tell her she has a nice rack, there is something creepy about it, unless you are already intimate like that.

 

People who truly lead wonderful lives do not need to say it. EVER. It shows in the way you carry yourself.

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Such conflicting views: Maelstrom X vs. Dan 10

 

Yes, I fear I won't get her back. But they say that in love and friendship, the one who is more willing to leave has the greater power. It's a fine balance.

 

 

I've been making fun of her for regularly. I think she enjoys it.

 

Anyway, I actually prefer flat-chested women. But I pretended not to, just to get at her.

 

I know that you were probably teasing her in a fun way, but when you are teasing someone in a fun way, you can't use things that she can't do anything about. That creates complexes in people. What if you guys did have sex and she started telling you that you had a tiny penis? You might laugh at it, but I can guarantee you, it would occasionally creep into your mind and bother you.

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Tomorrow (today, actually, since it's 3 am) - I will ask the girl to have coffee for fifteen minutes.

 

I won't apologise, and I won't ask her the reason she was mad. Instead, I'll ask her to describe how she felt on Friday night, from when we left the house, to when we fought on the bus, to when we left each other at Chapters.

 

Afterward, I'll remind her of all the good times we had. Last last Saturday was amazing. Last Sunday was amazing. So was everyday last week up until our big fight. Last last Saturday night, she was so good to me, I almost cried. (But of course I won't tell her.)

 

Maybe the problem was that I was pressuring her into sex on Friday. Personally, I don't believe in hanging out with women I'm not having sex with. Except for a few close woman friends. But it's different with my woman friends. I can't explain it.

 

This girl is not my "friend." But she is so different from other girls. She is so mysterious. The more I learn about her, the more I want to know about her. She is so impeccably and imperturbably cool. She is cynical and street-smart. Plus, she doesn't take me seriously. She is never impressed with anything, me included.

 

On the other hand, she was extraordinarily good to me on several occasions. She really moved me.

 

I don't want to go into details here.

 

Anyway, I'm willing to keep hanging out with her, even without sex. I prefer hanging out with her without sex than with some other woman with sex. I'll play it cooler from now on.

 

I noticed that the last time I got really far with her physically, I had strong self-discipline. I listened to her speak. We had a strong sense of connection. The other thing I did was I touched her only a bit at first. And then I retreated for a while. And then I touched her again. By touching her and then removing my touch alternately, I got much further with her physically than I had expected.

 

Well, in any case, I'll behave better for a few days at least.

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I said I was attracted to her, because she was hard to get. I also said that I would pay more attention to her only if we had sex.

 

did you notice these 2 things are polar opposites? by definition, once she starts sleeping with you, she won't be 'playing hard to get' anymore, so i don't see why you would be more interested in her then, especially if you say that the reason you are so into her now is because you haven't had her. my guess is that you will grow bored of her after having a few weeks of sex with her. that is, if she doesn't ditch you by then.

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She hasn't called me back yet. Well, I'll see her in class for sure tomorrow.

 

man, i would most certainly apologize.

 

But I don't think I did anything wrong.

 

She was pretty mean to me at times, too.

 

did you notice these 2 things are polar opposites? by definition, once she starts sleeping with you, she won't be 'playing hard to get' anymore, so i don't see why you would be more interested in her then, especially if you say that the reason you are so into her now is because you haven't had her. my guess is that you will grow bored of her after having a few weeks of sex with her. that is, if she doesn't ditch you by then.

 

That's what I said to her, but I didn't mean it.

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Everything you have said and done to this girl is wrong. You are utterly clueless about how to treat a woman properly. These "games" you play are rediculous and I hope that no woman is ever stupid enough to fall for them and actually sleep with you. You make me almost ashamed to be male with the way you treat women.

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Hahaha, strong words, 15 Storeys High.

 

There was no game involved. The above "four reasons," for which she could be mad at me, were neither intentional nor preplanned.

 

I'm keep myself preoccupied with schoolwork until tonight. I might make her another phone call then. I need discipline to keep myself from calling earlier.

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I honestly think that if you care at all about this girl, the best thing you could do at this point is bow out and leave her alone. Even if you don't care - because it's all downhill from here. She's obviously not stupid, she's caught on to what you are doing.

 

An apology would be nice too but isn't necessary. It's more important that you STOP with what you are doing and give her some respect.

 

I think you have done nothing but disrespect her, and she knows that. She's expressed it to you as well.

 

Sincere apologies are important in relationships or with people where there is a baseline of respect. Here, there isn't, so it's somewhat of a side issue.

It's bound to be seen as games anyways, since that is what you have and are doing.

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I honestly think that if you care at all about this girl, the best thing you could do at this point is bow out and leave her alone. Even if you don't care - because it's all downhill from here. She's obviously not stupid, she's caught on to what you are doing.

 

What do you mean by "what you are doing"?

 

I think it will be uphill. Strong emotions can lead to feelings of anger, hatred, resentment, jealousy, etc. Better strong emotions than no emotions.

 

I was a bit resentful of her on Friday, because she was acting so cool and imperturbable. Maybe I am glad she got so mad at me.

 

It would really awkward, though, if we don't reconcile. She has made friends with my mom and my sister already. My mom adores her. I was becoming worried that they were hanging out too much together. Maybe she'll tell on me.

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What you are doing - what I meant by that is treating her poorly. As the others have stated.

 

You'll do what you want to do, and believe what you wish.

 

Tell on you? LOL. To your mama? LOL. Lord A'mercy.

 

Anyways, I think you've got enough input on this. There's nothing left to say.

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itsallgrand,

 

Tell on you? LOL. To your mama? LOL. Lord A'mercy.

 

Haha, obviously it was tongue in cheek. But we have joked about her telling on me to my mom many times.

 

You'll do what you want to do, and believe what you wish.

 

Thank you for that. I enjoy truisms immensely.

 

What you are doing - what I meant by that is treating her poorly. As the others have stated.

 

If I treated her as poorly as you suggest, then why did she hang out with me day after day, for hours at a time, for the last four weeks?

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If I treated her as poorly as you suggest, then why did she hang out with me day after day, for hours at a time, for the last four weeks?

 

So she could have good gossip to tell her girlfriends. "You'll never believe this guy I met... blah blah blah... I know! What a tool! I should totally accept his next date, just to see what moronic crap spews out of his mouth next. I bet he's bad in bed blah blah blah..."

 

 

 

I mean, that's not something I would do... but if she's on to your game, ever considered that she might play, and raise the stakes? She knows you care. She doesn't. Perhaps that is why she is unperturbed. She knows she's a catch. She knows you act like a jerk. That's why she's willing to teach you a lesson.

 

Be very, very careful when you play games. You might lose.

 

YS

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Haha, yellow_sweater, good thinking. Your comment is the most interesting answer on this thread.

 

Anyway, I doubt she's gossip-hunting, though. For one thing, she has no fun-friend. All her friends are for work and serious things.

 

I think there are three reasons she hangs out with me:

 

1. Hanging out with me is fun and exciting. One time, when I asked her what the most exciting thing she did during the last three weeks were. She said hanging out with me. I was surprised. I didn't think she would reveal her vulnerability that easily, especially as she was usually so cool and imperturbable.

 

2. We have no barriers. The second time we met, I took her back to my place and tried to feel her up. And then, the next day, she made fun of me for it. (Btw, this is where the "telling on me to my mom" jokes originated.) We don't have much to hide from each other anymore.

 

3. We had many "moments." There is nothing more exciting than emotional connection. Emotional connection is like a drug. Once you've felt the sensations of deep, emotional connection with someone, there's no going back.

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