Patients, LC paying off? We shall see...

[BlackOps]

Thanks everyone for your encouragement. She came over looking fantastic yet comfortable. Wearing a shirt I had bought for her on her birthday, shorts and nice shoes. We both complimented each other on how nice we looked, actually at the same time while we hugged and to test the water I placed my hand softly on her check and kissed her hello. She showed no signs of disapproval.

 

For the menu tonight I made tofu in an Indian korma sauce on a bed of wild rice with fresh asparagus and tandoori naan bread. For desert was fresh cut mango and Costa Rican chocolate ice cream. She loved the dinner and took home the left overs, it was a nice quiet evening indeed. There was no talk of the past or any unpleasantness, just current goings on in our lives. It's odd when we do get together like this it's like the way it was except that she goes to her house at the end of the night. Gotta work on that ending in the near future I think.

The night ended just as well as it started and we made plans for Tuesday night. Let's see if she calls tomorrow.

[blue_dahlia]

Ya an update, I love updates!! Especially positive ones! Sounds like a lovely, non-threatening, easy going and fun evening. Well done.

[COtuner]

Good for you, Black Ops! Sounds really positive, and a relaxing evening without pressure.

 

BTW, was that Choctal ice cream? I love that stuff... (Kalimentan is my fave)

[BlackOps]

BTW, was that Choctal ice cream? I love that stuff... (Kalimentan is my fave)

 

Good call CoTuner. Circle gets the square. Indeed it was Choctal ice cream.

[BlackOps]

She did call yesterday, twice for that matter. We finalized our plans tonight, talked about things going on in her life and I spent an hour at her place after work talking and giving her some advice on some issues she has going on.

 

We made plans to spend the weekend of 10-17 in a cabin in the mountains and then possibly another trip (this one an overnight) to LA at the end of October. She commented that with the medication working it's like having the old (Black OPS) back. Me being sick as long as I was we both forgot what I was like. I told her that I am starting to forget what it was like to feel like sh*t everyday. We talked some more and I left. Pretty damn good last few days but I have to say that this sleeping alone business is still a drag.

[tcan411]

I really hate to say this, but i think this forum is for honest advice and I hope thats what youre looking for. I think you are really playing into her hand. When someone ends a relationship wioth someone else they feel amazing amounts of guilt. Basically all of these steps are slowly removing all the guilt from her end, as she sees that you can be friends. You clearly want more, but in a separate realitonship with no history, after a dinner like that, there would be little doubt that the person would probably spend the night or at least make a romantic gesture.

 

Everything you are doing is on her terms. Like i said, any other reltionship if you felt that you had stronger feelings than the other person, you would want to talk about it and bring it up. You wouldnt just continue on.

 

I think the best thing to do is really just say how you feel abou ther. Be honest, and then be prepared to walk away and really let her have to face life without you. shes getting the best of both worlds right now. She can do whatever she wants and still have you for emotional support. I tried this for awhile with my ex once and she came back to me eventually, but in the end it bothered me so much that it had to be on her terms for so long that i ended things. The person made a choice and I think you have to make them live with it if you really want her real and honest emotions to come back. Otherwise she might grow to only see you as a friend (which sounds like what is happening from your posts).

[Fireman Sam]

Friends...

 

Well after 13 yrs of marrage....a relationship is probably based on a strong foundation of friendship and dependability. I don't know what the big deal is with being friendzoned for a while while the trust is being slowly rebuilt.

I would hope that love & romance can once again come into the picture when the playfullnes returns to the relationship.

 

Just my thoughts....and hopes.

[tcan411]

Friends...

 

Well after 13 yrs of marrage....a relationship is probably based on a strong foundation of friendship and dependability. I don't know what the big deal is with being friendzoned for a while while the trust is being slowly rebuilt.

I would hope that love & romance can once again come into the picture when the playfullnes returns to the relationship.

 

Just my thoughts....and hopes.

 

My point is just respect. If someone truly has strong feelings for you i think that they move heaven and earth to express them. I think when someone is ont he fence about their feelings, then they need to be left to their own devices in order to truly make up their mind.

 

Thats just my opinion, but one of the reasons I feel that way, is that for all of the my exes for which I have broken things off, only the ones that I do not remain friends with do I ever still think of romantically. The other ones are almost viewed as family by me. I care deeply about them, and in many ways are much closer to them then the others, but only the ones for which I amnot friends could I see a possible reconciliation. I just feel like once you start viewing a person in a different way its ahrder to go back. The reverse wold be a friend that you sleep with. Its harder for you to see them int he same light as a firend having drastically changed the relationship in such a way.

[BlackOps]

Don't really look at it as playing into her hand. I know if I ask her out she can say yes or no and she knows I can say the same. She knows my feelings on things as I've been up front and more than clear about them I just don't keep bringing them up. I've said my piece and don't want to bombard her with them every time we get together.

 

Spending the night after dinner wasn't an option. As much as I would have loved her to we both had busy Mondays and I felt it might be to soon for that. It was my call to end the night. We are affectionate towards each other and it's not one sided we are both cautious about it.

At the moment I'm not emotionally ready to invest myself in another woman so the time between dates and contact is spent continuing to work on me for the next stage of my life and whomever it's with. Just as she can, I can and do whatever I want and if I meet someone I find interesting and want to take her to dinner I do but I keep it just that. I'm very upfront about things and that I'm not ready to jump into a new relationship with a new person.

 

Reconciliation to some degree has come up but, as I've said before, we are rediscovering each other right now and having a great time doing so. The outcome is the outcome and I'm fine with whatever that is. At some point we are going to have a talk about where all this is going but at the moment she is friendzoned right now as much as I am.

[tcan411]

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but more just trying to help. You said you are keeping her inthe friendzone, but you both have very different reasons for it since you clearly want her back, and she is unsure. Your reasons for keeping her int he friendzone is to try and win her back by keeping things light, etc...and hope the spark comes back. She clearly is int he friendzone becasue she is unsure.

 

I thinkka good way to judge is what you would do if she said "I love you and want you back for good, im 100% sure". Im sure you would jump at that. Now if you said that you might worry about pushing her away. My point is that you are reacting to her moves, as opposed to reacting to each other. I could be wrong, but thats what seems to be happening from your words. I only took the not spending the night thing as her idea, isnce you seemed diaspointed about it. I just think people need to live with decisions to clear their heads. While you have choices over your decisions and what you do (ie go out or not, etc) you are acting towards trying to get her back. anyway thats just the impression from your posts. I have seen this a lot and thats only why i bring it up to help. I think in the end that this type of thing only leads to more confusion of roles, and more issues. I could be wrong though and I hope I am in this case.

[blue_dahlia]

If someone truly has strong feelings for you i think that they move heaven and earth to express them.

 

I kindly disagree. Someone may have feelings, but be scared to move forward or express them. Sometimes it takes time for the walls to come down, for the trust to rebuild and for both to see that there is truly a difference (for the better) between the old and new relationship. I think that it takes a tremendous amount of patience and time in order to build a solid foundation for the new relationship to stand.

[Fireman Sam]

I kindly disagree. Someone may have feelings, but be scared to move forward or express them. Sometimes it takes time for the walls to come down, for the trust to rebuild and for both to see that there is truly a difference (for the better) between the old and new relationship. I think that it takes a tremendous amount of patience and time in order to build a solid foundation for the new relationship to stand.

 

I have read that the basic rule of thumb for how long it typically takes for the walls to come down is roughly one mth per yr of the relationship. That would mean that a 6 yr relationship could easily take 6mths for any reconciliation to occur.

 

In my case...I could be looking at a yr since my relationship was about 11 yrs. That is a very long time....but imagine the personal growth that can occur during that time. I will be a totally different individual then.

 

That is providing that you take advantage of the time you have and "WORK ON YOU".

 

I personally believe you should have some sort of plan....and stick to it through the rollercoaster of your emotions.

[tcan411]

I am not disagreeing that there are exceptions. In fact, I have seen exceptions before. My point isa more that 9 times out of 10, it works towards your detriment if you become friends if you truly wan tot get back together.

 

You have a fight with a friend, its not big deal. You have a fight with a GF or a disagreement, you have the security of the relaitonship to fall back on. You have a fight in this scenario and it could totally derail it. Its such a fragile and tentative balance that you are basically emasculated in many ways. You cant be challenging, and sure your fun because your always forced to be happy. You cant have a bad day, or be honest about how you feel. I see a lot fo this in Blackops post, as he thinks quite a bit about the interactions (ie what shes wearing, if she was happy and laughing, etc..) instead of just being. I think that leads to behavior that can hurt reconciliation, but will lead to her really caring about him as a friend. Theres nothing wrong with that, but I dont think thats what he wants.

 

And fireman there is no basic rule of thumb for walls to come down. Everyone is different and every relationship is different. TO assign an arbitrary number to things is just a way to try and predict behavior, which i many cases will only lead to disappointment.

[BlackOps]

She spent the night last night. We slept win the same bed for the first time since the divorce, there was no monkey business. We just slept with the dog between us and we were both very comfortable.

For the first time getting back together was the only thing we talked about. A lot was put out there and this morning she called to talk more about it asking if I was serious about all I said. Of course I was, was she? Of course she was. We joked saying "Hey how many times have The Who have gotten back together" ? There is still much to work out, she rents her place and I own our home and some things still need to be worked out but there was no disagreements about anything. She laid out what she wanted as did I and there was nothing unreasonable from either of us.

She said on the phone she got up about 2 this morning to get some water and just sat on the couch for an hour or so in the quiet looking around our house thinking. There are still things to go over and work through but last night was huge. She said "I Love you." when we hung up the phone and she'll call me tonight.

[billabong89]

Hey BlackOps,

 

Would you be able to explain...

 

We joked saying "Hey how many times have The Who have gotten back together" ?

 

It sounds as if you got things well managed. I'm sure hearing the words "I Love You" made you feel amazing. Its great you bot laid it all out there so there aren't any surprises. Wish you all the best, and by the looks of things you have everything under control!

[BlackOps]

We've been talking about getting back together a lot since I last posted. Getting a divorce is much more acceptable than getting back together after one so the comment about the "The WHO" was used in the sense that no one looks at them cross eyed when they get back together so it's not weird if we do. Did that make sense? I've been slacking on the updates but everything is on point right now, got lots of updates to process through and write down.

[BlackOps]

God where to start... My ex, the small white lump (the dog) and I have been spending a lot of time together this last week. She came over Saturday morning and left Sunday night around 9. I cooked a hell of a dinner Saturday with breakfast and dinner Sunday. We've had lots of good talks and things are moving along nicely. She came over tonight and told me she wants to move to Portland Oregon in the summer and wants me to go with her. She's even going so far as to tell friends of hers that I'm considering it, which truthfully I am. I told her tonight that me going with her means a HUGE commitment on both of our parts and just flat out asked "So this means we're getting back together?" We start therapy in a week or so and she said that she's wants to see how the therapy goes. That might sound less than committal on her end but I am actually waiting for that as well. We need to work on some things with a third party and if it doesn't work out then it doesn't. I respect the process and we are both willing to do whatever it takes and whatever the therapist tells us to do. I love this woman more than anything but have spent this time apart after the divorce wisely working on myself as though we would never reconcile (honestly never thought we would) and so while I still want to spend my life with her I am not defined by her and I am prepared for the next part of my life no matter what happens with us. I have been much more affectionate towards her and have turned up the heat so to speak with more kisses and touches, and she has done the same. We both say "I love you" when we hang up and when we part so while there are things we need to work on still the feelings seem to have grown much stronger towards each other during this time. Limited contact has pretty much ceased and turned into regular contact but I still hold back from answering every call from time to time but now every one of mine are answered.

[ryan2000]

Your being very smart about this mate. Well done, and congrats............ i take a great deal of inspiration from your updates.

[billabong89]

Blackops its amazing to hear your story! It's really gret your seeking a third party....sadly my ex talked about doing that and I at the time believed it was only for married couples. Now I have a completely different thought on that. Keep things up and I wish you all the best!

 

A word of advice "Never leave the door being angry at her" Learnt that from my parents

[Sparkie]

Nicely done, mate. Really glad to hear things are progressing for you. Hopefully counselling will be the cementer (made up word??) for you both.

[Fireman Sam]

Hey BlackOps,

 

Good to hear that things are progressing well with renewing your relationship.

How are things going to be different this time?

 

I hope that you both can can use the therapy to rebuild your trust, commitment and communication with each other.

 

The best of luck to you mate.

[blue_dahlia]

Just thinking of you, BlackOps!!

[BlackOps]

Trust, communication are on point and progressing as they should.

What will be different you ask. A lot is really the only way to answer that. We've both experienced a lot of personal growth and exploration these past months and we have essentially laid out our lists of what we liked and disliked about the past and have been honest about it. Most things we have recognized and have worked on them on our own, some had to be pointed out and some had to be learned the hard way.

For example, my ex hated the way I handled bill pay and finances, mostly because she wanted nothing to do with any of it. In her mind I handled it in a demeaning and controlling way and as much as I tried to explain it she never understood. Now the table has turned and she is in control of her own finances and has a deadbeat roommate with whom she is always having to hound for her half of the bills the roles are reversed and she admits to understanding why we had the arguments we had. She sees my side of it now and understands only because she is now in my role, something she would not have been able to do before. Not to call my ex a deadbeat mind you, she's far from it, it just took and extreme circumstance to get the whole picture. It's these kinds of hard lessons that we had to learn apart that will make us better.

[ryan2000]

Can i ask a personal question (sorry if it is too personal, it's just the position i am in at the moment, but feel free to say no if it is too much).

 

How did you feel when she told you that she was 'kinda' seeing somebody else?

 

Did you feel rejected? Not worthy? Did you question yourself? Where you angry? Frightend even, that she might never come back?

 

Again, sorry if it's too personal, these are just feelings i currently.....err.....feeling (bad writting there! LOL)

[BlackOps]

Not a problem my man that's what this thing is for. Truthfully no, I was none of those things. We are divorced and all ties between us were cut and we were both free to do whatever we wanted and I had to face the fact that "She's not mine anymore" and it helped me get past that. Plus you figure I couldn't feel anymore rejected than a divorce and if I dwelt on that then I wouldn't heal. If you think losing a girlfriend is bad add writing a check like the one I did to the mix I spent the time apart focusing on me and not worrying about what she was doing and purposefully kept my self relationship or rebound free. I never thought she would come back, getting that stamped letter from the courthouse saying "This marriage is terminated" is pretty harsh and final. I was very surprised when she broke NC and began calling me. Now I don't want this to come accross like I didn't suffer the same emotions as everyone else that has a break up because I certainly did. Believe me there were many nights I came home to an empty house and cursed it and the silence and lots of tears were shed. There were many hard nights but I looked at my situation and chose to have fun, travel and explore new things and learn from my mistakes and work on my healing not replace her with another person. That was the best thing I ever did for myself. I did take a few women out to dinner and such but kept everything very light so as to not get in the way of what I was trying to accomplish.

When my ex finally did see me and talk to me she didn't find a depressed, teary slug but quite the opposite. She's even commented to the fact that I never made one call begging her back, sent one letter or text in desperation. The only thing she got was a letter of apology from me that said nothing of wanting her back but instead asking her forgiveness for my actions and wishing her luck. She was actually expecting those calls and things and when she realized they weren't coming is when she called.