Therapy success or failure...how long do we keep trying?

[Odysseus]

So when I returned to my wife 1.5 years ago, it was for the kids. I'd moved out (separated) for a few weeks back in November 2006.

 

Since then we've been in therapy, as a couple, individually, and (per my other posts), I've not been able to reconnect with her the way I need to for our relationship to work.

 

My question is: How many of the folks here went through real work in their marriages during a crisis like this, and how long did you do so? What were the results? So far, the best thing to come out of it is that she finally treats me with respect and we can talk honestly about our marriage, feelings, etc. But this has not fixed the fundamental problem that I no longer love this woman.

 

So...any stories about marital work, therapy would be appreciated. Thanks.

[benga]

I don't think I can add too much here. I have been separated from my wife for about 19 months now. I think one of the key to a successful reconciliation is to recognize some of your own internal workings and identification of some of your contributions to the demise of the relationship.

 

I think time apart can be contructive depending on how you use that time. Once the dust settles and folks calm down, some amount of objective thinking ensues and some of the answers can be found at that stage. To answer your question on why you don't have those loving feeling for your wife - I think the answer really lies within you. What is it that you expect? Is that spark missing? I think it takes a while before those feelings come back. Communication is a fantastic start. I guess you will have to start connecting at other levels. Spend time doing things that you like doing together. Attend therapy - together and separate. What levels of physical intimacy? If it exists, get creative and innovative.

 

I would like to see more responses on this thread. May help others in the future...

 

All the best

Benga

[Seraphim]

I have been married for 15 years and together for 20. We have had serious serious issues in our marriage in the past. It takes love and patience and understanding to get through them. I can tell you however if you do not love her you are working for a lost cause.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Odysseus, you just sound like you thoroughly don't like your wife, don't want your wife, don't want to be with her, have no respect for her, etc. etc.

 

You really have to WANT to make this marriage work, and you really talk about being with her like going to the gallows.

 

You have to ask yourself at this point whether the real problem is that you just don't want it to work, and keep going thru the motions, and in fact resent having to go thru the motions because you don't like or want your wife.

 

I think if you've been thru counseling before and now again and it still is doing nothing, then perhaps you should instead be working on finding an amicable way to divorce and just getting on with it.

[Seraphim]

I think you are prolonging the inevitable. I know you say it will bring financial hardship but it is going to at ANY time you get divorced. Staying together for the kids is the worst excuse out there and you know my reasons for that. Really there is nothing to work on, you do not love her, end of story.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

Odysseus...

 

I have been following your posts.... IMO... i think you are staying with your wife out of guilt and obligation to your children and to her- and i think after therapy and a lot of soul searching you are finally coming to terms with who you are and what you want- the problem is that you aren't ready to admit to yourself what it is that you want- because what you want ...seems very far out of reach.

 

You can't continue to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves- there comes a point when someone has to stand on their own two feet and face their own reality- and hopefully through that realization they will find themselves as well.

[omartin]

In my case Me and my wife went to counseling at the beginning of the marriage (about 3 months after we got married) and at the end. I will focus on the end. When we sat down with the counselor my wife completely went off on me complaining about all the stuff i did or didnt do. Basically throwing me under the bus. I felt so bad after that I didnt want to go to another session. We did go to another session and it didnt help at all. Me and my wife were on good terms during the second session.

 

The counseling didnt help at all. My counselor did say one thing that i already knew. My wife had a bad attitude and my marriage was not going to work unless she was able to change her attitude.

 

The issues that surrounded my divorce was based on the fact i was dealing with depression. During the past year, on my own, I have discovered with my psycologist which medicines worked better for me. I was being affected by several different things like a racing mind, lack of sleep and irritability. My wifes constant complaining didnt help either.

 

Me and my wifes counselor at the time told my wife that depression is a desease and that she needs to be supportive of me during this time, just as if i was injured at work or dealing with something like cancer. My wife disagreed and felt that depression was different and that i should just be able to go to a few counseling sessions on my own, take meds and be ok. Just that simple.

 

She did not know or understand the symptons of depression and she didnt take any effort to know. She was more concerned with her career and our children (my son and my step daughter).

 

I know in my heart if my wife was more loving and supportive we would have made it through. If the situation was reversed i would do anything for her. I would run through a brick wall for her. I am sad to say she didnt have the same feelings. In the end I dont believe she ever loved me at all.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

thats so sad... i think a lot of times... woman are under this notion that men are suppose to be the caretakers.. negating the fact that men ..have needs to ... and there will be times where we will need to nurture and care for our SO's.

[just M.E.]

My ex and I tried counseling but he never really wanted to be there so quickly found an excuse to say it wasn't working.

 

For me, I have been in therapy off and on over the years and I am remaining in it now, not because I believe I have a list of things to fix but as a process to work through and understand myself. I have gained a lot of insight through this for myself and no matter what the outcome of your marital situation, I would recommend you give personal therapy a ongoing try.

[Odysseus]

Odysseus, you just sound like you thoroughly don't like your wife, don't want your wife, don't want to be with her, have no respect for her, etc. etc.

 

You really have to WANT to make this marriage work, and you really talk about being with her like going to the gallows.

 

You have to ask yourself at this point whether the real problem is that you just don't want it to work, and keep going thru the motions, and in fact resent having to go thru the motions because you don't like or want your wife.

 

I think if you've been thru counseling before and now again and it still is doing nothing, then perhaps you should instead be working on finding an amicable way to divorce and just getting on with it.

 

I agree with some of what you said. I respect that she is who she is, but that doesn't mean I want to be with that person. We have a therapy session tonight as well, and we'll discuss the ground rules if we plan to stay together until she's out of school.

 

It's hard to explain what happened to me when I was driven to ask for a divorce in the first place almost two years ago...when I'd basically gotten to the end of my rope...then let go. It broke my love for this woman.

 

I'm most certainly have guilt for these feelings, but there is accountability for my wife in this, just as there is in me.

 

I guess...I wanted to regain these feelings for her, but apparently can't. I cannot just "will" myself to want to be with someone, like someone, if you get my meaning. And in this case, I'm truly tried to turn over every stone to do so for the sake of my kids for the last year and 9 months.

 

Thanks very much for the input.

[Odysseus]

Odysseus...

 

I have been following your posts.... IMO... i think you are staying with your wife out of guilt and obligation to your children and to her- and i think after therapy and a lot of soul searching you are finally coming to terms with who you are and what you want- the problem is that you aren't ready to admit to yourself what it is that you want- because what you want ...seems very far out of reach.

 

You can't continue to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves- there comes a point when someone has to stand on their own two feet and face their own reality- and hopefully through that realization they will find themselves as well.

 

Yes. I wanted this thing to work so much. I guess I felt it was necessary to really explore through therapy individually, and with my wife, whether the marriage was salvageable. And I never wanted to look back and think that I didn't do everything I could to rekindle my feelings for her. And mind you...in the last year and a half...we've had dates, I've reached out and tried the "fake it till you make it" strategy, tenderness, hugs, kisses, taken vacation together. All things my therapist and I agree were ways to re-ignite. But all along, I just didn't feel it.

 

I'm sorry if this p1sses people off or makes me seem like a cold hearted person. The relationship(whether it was love or co-dependence is debatable) we had died when I decided I was over the abuse. the more I found out about myself and what I needed in a relationship over the last year and half, the less and less it pointed to a life with her.

[Odysseus]

I think you are prolonging the inevitable. I know you say it will bring financial hardship but it is going to at ANY time you get divorced. Staying together for the kids is the worst excuse out there and you know my reasons for that. Really there is nothing to work on, you do not love her, end of story.

 

Victoria,

Prolonging the inevitable may just be the way it is. Do I think that my wife and I will be in therapy for the next 1.5 years until she's done with school? Not likely.

But, we can't, in this market, take a bath selling our houses(the old one STILL hadn't sold yet) far below their value. We have to be more responsible that that. I think we are willing to take a hit on our quality of life, but I'm not going to just write off $100-150K in equity so easily. Neither is she and it's something that we at least can agree on.

We will probably have to talk about how to communicate with the kids about our situation, but haven't gotten to that yet. It may be inevitable that we will break up, but that doesn't mean we have to just plow into it and rip everything apart without some reason behind it. I may be dreaming on this, but both of us seem to be willing to talk about this at this level.

I'm not desperate, but I have resolve.

 

-O

[BeStrongBeHappy]

People can and do separate but still live in the same house, if both parties agree to throw in the towel and it is better to divorce.

 

I don't think people think you are a cold hearted person, just kind of deluding yourself and your wife from the standpoint that you really appear to look at this marriage like a death sentence and the last thing you want to do is be with your wife.

 

You don't want the fallout from the divorce (on your kids, financially etc.), but you really don't want your wife or marriage at all. So the best way to deal with that is just to really accept that you are just going thru the motions while feeling like you're on death row.

 

You can actually release a lot of pressure if you both acknowledge the reality of the situation and work on becoming good co-parents of your children while working on ways to dissolve your ties and move on with your lives. She may be sick of trying too.

[thejigsup]

What is keeping you guys from staying in the same house together for the sake of the kids? You wouldn't have to love her or be intimate with each other, but you would really be making your kids lives a whole heck of a lot better. Think about it.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

If anything the honesty would most likely be a relief to you both...... personally, i wouldn't want my husband to be with me out of obligation or guilt- i'm not saying you are a bad person- quite the contrary .. however in your attempt to be nice.. you may be causing more harm.

[Odysseus]

What is keeping you guys from staying in the same house together for the sake of the kids? You wouldn't have to love her or be intimate with each other, but you would really be making your kids lives a whole heck of a lot better. Think about it.

 

Lots of reasons for not doing this. Both my wife and I have agreed that we want a marriage with intimacy. If we can't have that together, then it's grounds to split.

 

Also...I truly believe that my kids needs to see at least one (preferably both of us) in a loving relationship. If its not together, then apart. I grew up in a house with a non-loving relationship (my mom, my step father)...and I think it retarded my emotions about relationship building, love, trust and respect.

 

As much as I seem down on relationships, I know this is specifically about her and me. I would hope that when we split up each of us can someday find a relationship that works.

[Odysseus]

If anything the honesty would most likely be a relief to you both...... personally, i wouldn't want my husband to be with me out of obligation or guilt- i'm not saying you are a bad person- quite the contrary .. however in your attempt to be nice.. you may be causing more harm.

 

We are being honest with each other now, and we are trying to keep the damage to a minimum. Untangling 18 years of a marriage without using brute force is a lot of work. It's hard to appreciate it until you've been through it I'm finding.

[Odysseus]

I know it's not a death sentence, and I'm really not deluded about what's going on. I know it may seem that way when I fire off some of my emotionally charged postings, but most of the time, I have a quiet determination to try and do what's right for me, my kids and my wife.

 

It's obvious that what's right is to use therapy to learn how to co-parent with my wife with respect and put the past behind us, but accept that when she is finished with school, we get divorce, split the assets, and figure out how to take care of our children.

 

I'm actually thinking we should talk to an attorney soon to discuss our rights. Is it too early?

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

We are being honest with each other now, and we are trying to keep the damage to a minimum. Untangling 18 years of a marriage without using brute force is a lot of work. It's hard to appreciate it until you've been through it I'm finding.

 

 

thats very true...i was under the impression that you were struggling with this without your wifes knowledge... by that i mean ... "going through the motions" and "not having love for her" ...

 

i must have misunderstood.

[Odysseus]

thats very true...i was under the impression that you were struggling with this without your wifes knowledge... by that i mean ... "going through the motions" and "not having love for her" ...

 

i must have misunderstood.

 

Nope. We've had a completely, and painfully, honest discussion going since late July about where I'm at. Last night during our therapy, it was obvious that the scars I have from our relationship are deep.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

Nope. We've had a completely, and painfully, honest discussion going since late July about where I'm at. Last night during our therapy, it was obvious that the scars I have from our relationship are deep.

 

then at this point..i guess it is a matter of just coming to terms, telling the children and figuring out finances..

 

my only advice and i have seen this happen more times then not- before the divorce gets under way - everyone is all.. lets do this equitably ..etc...and then because one or the other is hurt- spitefulness starts coming into play- and thats when things might get difficult for you, your wife and your children.

[travwilbury]

So when I returned to my wife 1.5 years ago, it was for the kids. I'd moved out (separated) for a few weeks back in November 2006.

 

Since then we've been in therapy, as a couple, individually, and (per my other posts), I've not been able to reconnect with her the way I need to for our relationship to work.

 

My question is: How many of the folks here went through real work in their marriages during a crisis like this, and how long did you do so? What were the results? So far, the best thing to come out of it is that she finally treats me with respect and we can talk honestly about our marriage, feelings, etc. But this has not fixed the fundamental problem that I no longer love this woman.

 

So...any stories about marital work, therapy would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

Ok, my situation is I am currently separated for 14 months now from a 20+ year marriage. My wife and I have been going to counseling now for about 4 to 6 months now. The comminciation has improved and we both see how we got to this point in our marriage......i.e. the causes, etc.

 

I even asked within the last month to come home. However, the counselor asked me my reasons for coming home. He actually posed it as a question, What percentage would you say you are coming home for wife and how much for doing the right thing?? Well, I was honest, it was mostly for doing the right thing. I have three kids who I love very much. He suggested we date more because he has seen other couples continue to have problems later because they came home for the wrong reasons. Meaning that the reason for coming home should be more for wanting to come home for wife.

 

Well..........what you mentioned in your post is the same and basically only problem I STILL have not figured out in my own mind. I too do not feel the love I think I should have.... I love her as a person and as a mom and we get along fairly well but it feels like the romantic side may never come back.

 

So, because I am the way I am and want to do the right thing...........I have mentally struggled for a few years on this subject.

 

I always felt worse then some because on the scale of things, especially when I read some of the horrible posts on sites like this, I do not have it as bad as most it seems. Sex is still good, she is good person, etc. So it makes me feel like I do not have the right to feel the way I do. And it adds to the guilt.

 

As an added note, I have received advice from a few women friends, that I should stay married and get what I want on the side. Although it is tempting since it is the easier route, I would rather end things now rather then fake it.

[Odysseus]

travwilbury,

Your's is just the kind of post I was hoping for...perspective from someone in similar situations (no offense to those others that responded...I accept and respect ALL advice).

 

I definitely came back because I thought it was the right thing to do. Was that the wrong reason? I think you'd get a different response from different people. I knew I couldn't live with myself not having given it one more try for my children. I guess...my commitment to the marriage and family was enough to get me back in and try.

[travwilbury]

travwilbury,

Your's is just the kind of post I was hoping for...perspective from someone in similar situations (no offense to those others that responded...I accept and respect ALL advice).

 

I definitely came back because I thought it was the right thing to do. Was that the wrong reason? I think you'd get a different response from different people. I knew I couldn't live with myself not having given it one more try for my children. I guess...my commitment to the marriage and family was enough to get me back in and try.

 

Well.......that is why it has become a habit for me to come to these type sites, to find people in similiar situations and try and gain some wisdom.

 

I am soooo glad I have not gone back yet. Well, actually I left for six weeks initially, then came back, then month later left again. That was July of 07. Been gone ever since.

 

I actually bought a book that talks about separation. It discussed how many couples make the mistake of coming back to soon or for the wrong reasons. I can identify with it. I am glad the counselor and even my wife had caution for me coming back. My wife actually was concerned over putting the kids through it again. She wanted a committment. I told her I could not honestly say that. I could try hard but could not give her a gaurantee. The counselor is even religious based.

 

Now if my wife withheld sex or was a B_itch, or something else I see as major, I would have a much easier decision.