Washing a kid's mouth out with soap?

[greensleeves]

If the goal is to humiliate, degrade, alienate and confuse a child, then washing his mouth out with soap will likely prove effective. A child of three simply can't comprehend why his mother would be doing this. On top of the emotional aspect, there are many dangerous chemicals in soap which could be physically harmful. I thought people stopped doing this back in the fifties.

 

I agree with the poster who said you should document her actions. When this method isn't successful (which it won't be), she'll likely resort to other abusive forms of discipline. I would also speak to your lawyer and find out if there are any legal steps that you as a parent could be taking to prevent her from doing this to your child. If what she's doing is legally considered abusive in your area and you do nothing to stop it, you might be considered almost as guilty as she is if it ever went as far as a custody battle.

[just M.E.]

That's wrong in my book, I was a fiarly strict mom but other than a swat on the bottom to get my daughter to realize I was serious, I never had to do more.

 

You are right about kids learning by example, I don't blame you for being upset and worried. I would be worried about your ex losing her sense of control and whether she is over reacting.

 

A 3 year is way to young to understand that and I never liked that one particular discipline action anyway. At age 3, time outs and with holding of rewards is more effective, I believe.

 

I don't think any of us as kids ever learned any thing from having our mouth washed out with soap. Most soaps are very harmless to injest, soap is a very mild compound and orignally was all animal fats and lye, but none the less, nothing is being taught in that exercise.

[Scorpion Fury]

 

I don't think any of us as kids ever learned any thing from having our mouth washed out with soap. Most soaps are very harmless to injest, soap is a very mild compound and orignally was all animal fats and lye, but none the less, nothing is being taught in that exercise.

 

I did. I learned not to say bad words with my mom around. That one was easy.

[JadedStar]

I did. I learned not to say bad words with my mom around. That one was easy.

 

There are many ways a kid can be taught not to do something but most loving parents do not wish to teach a child by harming them to get the message accross.

[just M.E.]

We used to eat soap as kids, on a dare from the other kids, but it is bar soap, it's really amazing any of us survived our childhood. We used to think we would fart bubbles (OK we were bored country kids) I had never heard of using liquid soap.

 

I grew up in the 50's - 60's when this was fairly common and when someone got their mouth washed out with soap it was almost a ritual, you got that bar of Ivory shoved around in your mouth for a few seconds and a swat on the fanny as you were ordered off to your room, usually without dinner. Still never thought any of us learned anything from that, butt never would this be considered done to a small child.

 

Children at age 3 really don't even understand the context of what they are saying. I would be worried that the boys yelling might be reflecting the ex's anger. That is a developmental disaster if that starts to happen.

 

Yes, I agree, keeping accurate records and talking to someone who can direct you to help stop that type of parenting discipline is absolutely necessary.

[just M.E.]

I did. I learned not to say bad words with my mom around. That one was easy.

 

That's it ... you learned not to get caught, not necessarily to stop the behavior!

[Scorpion Fury]

There are many ways a kid can be taught not to do something but most loving parents do not wish to teach a child by harming them to get the message accross.

 

My parents were plenty loving. I was a little punk that they could barely keep in line. it was the spankings and such that kept me from being completely out of control. If they wouldn't have done it and did "time out" or whatever nonsense with me, I would not have obeyed/respected/feared them. I would have laughed at them and did what I wanted, when I wanted. All the time.

[Scorpion Fury]

That's it ... you learned not to get caught, not necessarily to stop the behavior!

 

And I suppose putting baby in the corner teaches them to stop the bad behavior? It's the same thing. It teaches them not to get caught. You can't control what a kid does when you can't catch them. You can shove beliefs down their throat, but ultimately they're going to do what they want.

[JadedStar]

That's it ... you learned not to get caught, not necessarily to stop the behavior!

 

Right. Parents end up raising little con artists and/or people who are very good at wearing two faces, i.e. keeping things that they know are wrong out of sight of authority. I dont find this to be a very effective mode of teaching. JMO.

 

The preacher's kids jump into my mind. The ones who were perfect angels in front of adults and holy terrors behind the scenes.

[Scorpion Fury]

Right. Parents end up raising little con artists and/or people who are very good at wearing two faces, i.e. keeping things that they know are wrong out of sight of authority. I dont find this to be a very effective mode of teaching. JMO.

 

The preacher's kids jump into my mind. The ones who were perfect angels in front of adults and holy terrors behind the scenes.

 

What does being a con artist have to do with discipline? That doesn't make any sense. You think just cause you don't smack your kid around, you're automatically raising them to be honest?

[FreedomRing]

Right. Parents end up raising little con artists and/or people who are very good at wearing two faces, i.e. keeping things that they know are wrong out of sight of authority. I dont find this to be a very effective mode of teaching. JMO.

 

The preacher's kids jump into my mind. The ones who were perfect angels in front of adults and holy terrors behind the scenes.

 

Jaded I don't follow your point here...are you saying that discipline as far as spankings etc, contributes to kids growing up as criminals? (Just want to make sure I'm understanding your point).

[Pocket Rocket]

There are many ways a kid can be taught not to do something but most loving parents do not wish to teach a child by harming them to get the message accross.

 

I agree, I grew up with a father who used to hit as a form of punishment. All that ever taught me was 1) I hate dad and 2) How to be a better liar. It's taken me at least 5 years to begin to rebuild a relationship with my parents as a result. I've seen parents raise their children well without need for physical punishment, I'm not laying a finger on my kids if I have any.

[Pocket Rocket]

Jaded I don't follow your point here...are you saying that discipline as far as spankings etc, contributes to kids growing up as criminals? (Just want to make sure I'm understanding your point).

 

Actually, I understand her post completely, my teen years served as an example for that. As soon as my parents stopped hitting, they didn't know any other way to discipline. And as soon as that was gone, I went COMPLETELY off the rails. It didn't help that I didn't trust my parents either. Why would you trust someone who physically hurts you? The thing is if a man smacked his grown wife he could legally be put it jail. How is it any different with a child? Yes,it's different, a child can't fight back.

[just M.E.]

And I suppose putting baby in the corner teaches them to stop the bad behavior? It's the same thing. It teaches them not to get caught. You can't control what a kid does when you can't catch them. You can shove beliefs down their throat, but ultimately they're going to do what they want.

 

I would hope I never shoved beliefs down my duaghter's throat. I hope that what I did was teach her why one does the right thing and why doing the wrong thing is bad. At a very young age, you can't communicate that very well, but you try anyway. As a child grows, because you took the time to explain the values and morals, they actually learn this.

 

If a child grows up without respect and love, I do believe they will do as they please. I think I have some experience at this (my daughter is now 27), so I do believe a child can learn and carry those values through life.

[Scorpion Fury]

I agree, I grew up with a father who used to hit as a form of punishment. All that ever taught me was 1) I hate dad and 2) How to be a better liar. It's taken me at least 5 years to begin to rebuild a relationship with my parents as a result. I've seen parents raise their children well without need for physical punishment, I'm not laying a finger on my kids if I have any.

 

So you're saying, if your parents would ground you and take away things you enjoyed instead of spanking you, you would always been truthful with them and never lied?

 

Right.

[FreedomRing]

Whatever. You can't answer my question because you know your original statement made no sense, so now you're gonna attack the way my post was written.

 

Punishing your child, whether you chose to do it violently or non-violently, will not prevent your child from doing things you tell them not to when they know you won't find out. There's nothing else to say about that, other than to attack my post and this is not helping the OP, so enjoy your day. God bless.

 

I agree with this. There is research which supports both ends of the spectrum.

 

Now, children who are abused do have a tendency to commit abuse themselves, and repeat violent behaviors. But then the issue becomes--and at least IMO--that there CAN be a difference between getting a few spankings and full on child abuse.

[Scorpion Fury]

I would hope I never shoved beliefs down my duaghter's throat. I hope that what I did was teach her why one does the right thing and why doing the wrong thing is bad. At a very young age, you can't communicate that very well, but you try anyway. As a child grows, because you took the time to explain the values and morals, they actually learn this.

 

If a child grows up without respect and love, I do believe they will do as they please. I think I have some experience at this (my daughter is now 27), so I do believe a child can learn and carry those values through life.

 

Just because a parent spanks their kid to keep them from doing things they're not supposed to do, that doesn't mean they don't teach them values and morals. You make WAY too many assumptions.

[Pocket Rocket]

So you're saying, if your parents would ground you and take away things you enjoyed instead of spanking you, you would always been truthful with them and never lied?

 

Right.

 

Yes, I was terrified of being hit. Even to this day I still have the impulse to lie to my parents. Hitting never worked, it only made me do things behind their back. I lied even when it was blindingly obvious. In fact, the last time my father hit me (for failing my driver's test), I went and failed a second time because I didn't give a rat's *** and I knew I'd get away with it the second time. Even though I didn't know it would happened, my mother bailed me out because she hated seeing us get hit. When my father hit my sister and I was old enough I stood between them. My father wasn't a violent man, it was the only form of punishment he knew. But at a young age I still had a sense of justice, and even when I wasn't at the receiving end it still felt very wrong to me.

[FreedomRing]

See this is where it becomes subjective. I def do not condone spanking after the age of 9 or so. A combination of grounding and taking away material things or other privileges is more affective during pre teen/teenage years. I also do not condone closed fists, smacking in the face, for children either. But a swat or two on the rear from about 4-9 is not such a bad thing Imo...what your describing above sounds like child abuse.

[JadedStar]

Jaded I don't follow your point here...are you saying that discipline as far as spankings etc, contributes to kids growing up as criminals? (Just want to make sure I'm understanding your point).

 

My point is that parents who raise their kids by use of fear vs teaching them anything end up with kids who either are fearful, or who just are better at not getting caught, whichever their personality leans towards.

 

I am not saying that children don't need discipline. I AM saying that ancient and barbaric rituals like washing a kid's mouth out with soap are ineffective and teach very little about principles and values.

[Seraphim]

This is WHY you do not hit kids ior anyone else. My neices have not been hit not ever not ever not ever and they are not liars. My son is not a liar and I do not have to hit him either. No one will ever convince me hitting is right to do.

[just M.E.]

So you're saying, if your parents would ground you and take away things you enjoyed instead of spanking you, you would always been truthful with them and never lied?

 

Right.

 

I think what is meant that if his parents had worked to instill more respect and talked with him, yes he might not have lied as much. Almost every child goes through some phases of rebellion and trying their boundaries, and each child is unique. Discipline without out teaching values, simple does not work.

 

Discipline is how we learn our boundaries, it is how we experience learning our own self control. Don't equate discipline with spankings or time outs. Discipline is any action that enforces punishment for unacceptable behavior.

 

I believe if a child starts and continues life with caring parent(s) that teach that child the values, respect and morals of the society that they live in, yes, discipline can be very minimal because they have a deep respect for their parents.

 

I grew up in that world, I watched it every day. It wasn't whether we got a spanking or got our mouth washed out with soap, it was respecting our parents, our teachers and all those we were expected to show respect to. Whether a swat on the fanny is acceptable is up to each parent, but the boundaries and consistency is what will really form that child's character.

 

Now back to the OP, and I think this is what he believes also.

[Scorpion Fury]

Okie dokie...you're talking about your dad that would knock you around for something ridiculous, like failing a driver's test. I'm talking about parents that spank their kids on the butts for blatantly disobeying them. Big difference. I'm not even gonna touch on the rest of what you said, we'll be here all day and I got things to do. MY ONLY POINT is that kids aren't eager to get punished, no matter what the punishment is. A parent that punishes their kid by grounding them for two weeks for not doing their homework is no more likely to have a kid that doesn't lie to them than a parent that punishes their kid by making them pick their own switch off the tree in the back yard. It's really a very simple point.

[Supa_gurl]

I can see this posting went a little off topic but as long as everyone is speaking of physical punishment...I can add my 2cents.: My father was physically abusive and to this day (although him and I get along great now) I tend to tell him little white lies, being scared of his reaction. This has in turn carried over into my marriage. my husband has never nor would he ever raise his hand to me, yet I find myself doing the same thing. Scared to death of his reaction to the smallest thing, whether it be about something our child, or dog did, or whether it be finances. I will skirt around the truth sometimes.

 

OP: I am also from TX and I looked on the dfps (department of family and protective services) Website and, yes...what your ex is doing is abuse and I would put a stop to it ASAP.

[Seraphim]

And I suppose putting baby in the corner teaches them to stop the bad behavior? It's the same thing. It teaches them not to get caught. You can't control what a kid does when you can't catch them. You can shove beliefs down their throat, but ultimately they're going to do what they want.

 

 

Yes, this IS effective. I am raising a little boy for Child's Services right now, he is 2 and half and he gets time out and he KNOWS EXACTLY why he gets a time out. My disappointment in the behavoir is enough to motivate him not to do it anymore. I have helped to raise 40 kids and I can tell you hitting is never effective.