Seriously, i'm not selfish and materialistic but......

[CaptainPlanet]

i mean, i realize that we can't get all the things we want in life. i'd like to also have a lifestyle where there is always enough money, we can retire early and take exotic vacations............ but that's life, we can't get everything we want.

 

 

Move to the UK, Canada or Australia. Life is what you make it. People my age in Australia working crummy jobs always have enough money for everything and to take exotic vacations. Why don't you start seriously looking into immigration instead of being upset ? Also a lot of what you say strikes me as rather superficial. College, is just a standardized institution with some very low standards. Not indicative of very much at all other than the ability to pass those low standards the man problem is finding the time and the money to finish. Also a justification for spending it.

[annie24]

Move to the UK, Canada or Australia. Life is what you make it. People my age in Australia working crummy jobs always have enough money for everything and to take exotic vacations. Why don't you start seriously looking into immigration instead of being upset ? Also a lot of what you say strikes me as rather superficial. College, is just a standardized institution with some very low standards. Not indicative of very much at all other than the ability to pass those low standards the man problem is finding the time and the money to finish. Also a justification for spending it.

 

well, i didn't just finish college, i also did 2 majors in college, i also am finishing my PhD this year. trust me, no low standards here!

 

i am seriously considering moving, but for the adventure, not for money. i'm just pointing out, of course, it is nice to have a comfortable life, it's also nice to be able to eat whatever you want and be a slender size 4. but, life isn't perfect.

[annie24]

thank you. i seriously want to give you a hug right now!!!!

 

i guess part of me feels 'badly' for costing these guys an expense if they are struggling financially....... but then again..... they are the ones approaching ME and asking ME out on a date! i don't expect to be treated like a princess, i scoff at those women, but i'm also equally tired of feeling like i'm 'putting a guy out' by making him pay for my dinner. if i'm on a date with a guy who is well off, i don't feel bad at all, or worry if he will have enough money at the end of the month.

[ProtestTheHero]

thank you. i seriously want to give you a hug right now!!!!

 

i guess part of me feels 'badly' for costing these guys an expense if they are struggling financially....... but then again..... they are the ones approaching ME and asking ME out on a date! i don't expect to be treated like a princess, i scoff at those women, but i'm also equally tired of feeling like i'm 'putting a guy out' by making him pay for my dinner. if i'm on a date with a guy who is well off, i don't feel bad at all, or worry if he will have enough money at the end of the month.

 

Yeah, part of that is just bad form on their part. Any guy who does the actual asking for a date should assume that he's paying for both people and act accordingly.

 

If a guy knows he can't afford to do that right now, then he needs to plan ahead and do something else (like you already mentioned). If he plans ahead and does something thoughtful, it draws the focus away from the monetary aspect of it. If you both just sort of show up and then he talks about expenses...I can imagine how awkward of a situation that is.

[CaptainPlanet]

If you put a price tag on yourself be prepared to be treated like an object.

 

I don't know why you are saying all of these things because they strike me as very shallow. Are you struggling financially ? Maybe that is influencing your way of thinking.

 

It doesn't seem very modern, progressive or in any way favoring equality between men and women that you expect a man to pay for everything or to have a lot of money. I don't know, some girls are like that and some aren't some won't date you unless you buy them everything, while others really want to be a partner.

[ProtestTheHero]

If you put a price tag on yourself be prepared to be treated like an object.

 

I don't know why you are saying all of these things because they strike me as very shallow. Are you struggling financially ? Maybe that is influencing your way of thinking.

 

It doesn't seem very modern, progressive or in any way favoring equality between men and women that you expect a man to pay for everything or to have a lot of money. I don't know, some girls are like that and some aren't some won't date you unless you buy them everything, while others really want to be a partner.

 

I think your bias is becoming a little too evident, here. It's one thing to ask someone to supply you with an entire lifestyle. It's another to ask them to buy you lobster one night. If a guy asks, he should expect the expense. If the female does the asking, SHE should expect the expense. Neither of these equate to putting a price tag on yourself, believe me. My monetary situation hasn't exactly resulted in females swarming all over me, but I attribute that more to my discretion than anything else.

[annie24]

I think your bias is becoming a little too evident, here. It's one thing to ask someone to supply you with an entire lifestyle. It's another to ask them to buy you lobster one night. If a guy asks, he should expect the expense. If the female does the asking, SHE should expect the expense. Neither of these equate to putting a price tag on yourself, believe me. My monetary situation hasn't exactly resulted in females swarming all over me, but I attribute that more to my discretion than anything else.

 

yeah, that's pretty much it. and i don't even like lobster, i don't typically eat the most expensive things on the menu anyways. i just hate the feeling of going on a date and feel like i am 'putting the guy out' financially.

 

am i struggling financially? yes, to some extent, because i am a student. though it doesn't massively bother me, i know when i graduate, there will be plenty of good opportunities for me. i won't ever be Paris Hilton rich, or anywhere near that kind of wealth, but i'll definitely be comfortable.

 

i definitely can understand what men go through, i know it can get expensive to pay for a girl all of the time, especially when you've been dating for a while. i'm not asking for that though. i'm definitely all for sharing expenses in a relationship.... i guess i just want to feel 'pampered' as opposed to a guy being 1 paycheck away from the poor-house because i wanted to order dinner and dessert. you know, it's just nice when a guy asks you on a date and makes you feel special and cared for.

 

i guess with this most recent guy who told me he is having financial problems, that is the same thing he told my friend when he dated her a few years ago. makes me wonder what is going on that's been lasting for so long.

[annie24]

i think i'm just tired of feeling unappreciated, or treated not so well. i'm getting sick of it. like 6 months ago, i was dating a florist. i knew he didn't have a lot of money, but that's ok, i was having fun with him. i told him that i really liked flowers, i told him i'd really love to get flowers from him. he said - ok, he would send them to me. but, he never did! now, i'm not the kind of girl who everr DEMANDS anything from a guy, i don't think i've ever asked a guy to ever buy me anything. but i love fresh flowers so much, and being that the guy was a florist, i figured he might be able to get a bouquet here or there, either cheap, if not completely free. but no, we dated for 6 weeks, never got a single flower from him.

 

after experiences like these, i just figure it would be nice to have a guy ask me out and not bat an eyelash when he sees the prices on the menu or the bill.

[thejigsup]

I'm a grad student who works three jobs. I make decent money, not great, but decent. I need a man with a career, not a job. I've done the auto mechanic, plumber, thing. It doesn't work for me. I love men in suits, always have. My current bf is an attorney and I see him in suits all the time! He has a nice house with swimming pool, jacuzzi, covered patio with three grills and running water, the house has several bedrooms and plenty of room. He also owns his own office building. Is he handsome? Not in a conventional way, but I think he is. I have a large apartment, a timeshare, and other nice things. Go for what you want. That may be completely different from what I want, and that's great! Political Correctness has got us all scared to say what we really think or want. In it's own way, it is as repressive as arch conservatism. Neither works very well for people who think. Annie, as long as you are being honest with yourself, there is nothing wrong with wanting what you want. Just be honest with others and yourself about it.

[CaptainPlanet]

I think your bias is becoming a little too evident, here. It's one thing to ask someone to supply you with an entire lifestyle. It's another to ask them to buy you lobster one night. If a guy asks, he should expect the expense. If the female does the asking, SHE should expect the expense. Neither of these equate to putting a price tag on yourself, believe me. My monetary situation hasn't exactly resulted in females swarming all over me, but I attribute that more to my discretion than anything else.

 

My personal bias for equality is very much evident I agree. You are from a rich family as you stated, you have had everything given to you, perhaps you are the one who has the bias because you do not properly understand the annoyance of having to wash away hard earned money on someone who probably doesn't even care about you. In that respect I think Annie should give some of these guys a little bit of slack.

 

Sometimes it would indeed be nice to feel appreciated.

[CaptainPlanet]

I don't think a woman has ever sent me anything, or bought me anything or been particularly nice to me for no reason. What makes women so special that they deserve this treatment ? That they somehow feel they are entitled to be given gifts simply for being female.

 

Sure, a close friend, a family member or a long term girlfriend you would buy things for if the situation dictated that you have greater means. But why should a man have to buy things for a woman he hardly knows ? Why can't women just pay their own way. Especially for the first few dates. Is that not equality ?

[annie24]

the annoyance of having to wash away hard earned money on someone who probably doesn't even care about you. In that respect I think Annie should give some of these guys a little bit of slack.

 

Sometimes it would indeed be nice to feel appreciated.

 

and that is sort of my point. like the last few guys, i was standing with my friends, in a bar, pretty much minding my own business, when the guy approaches me, we chat, and then he says, 'i'd really like to get to know you better - i'd like to take you out to dinner sometime this week.' ok, fine, but then choose an activity/restaurant/date idea that falls within your budget, and not kind of act uncomfortable when you see the bill.

 

i live in an exciting city with lots of free and cheap events, like outdoor festivals, live music, parks... and with it being a university town, there are plenty of cheap events sponsored by the university, like faires, free movie nights, etc...

 

it's a lot more appealing when a guy takes the time to find a local event that fits into his budget. i mean, why approach a strange girl in a bar and ask her for dinner if you can't comfortably pay?

[annie24]

I don't think a woman has ever sent me anything, or bought me anything or been particularly nice to me for no reason. What makes women so special that they deserve this treatment ? That they somehow feel they are entitled to be given gifts simply for being female.

 

Sure, a close friend, a family member or a long term girlfriend you would buy things for if the situation dictated that you have greater means. But why should a man have to buy things for a woman he hardly knows ? Why can't women just pay their own way. Especially for the first few dates. Is that not equality ?

 

i agree, i don't believe that i should get special treatment just because i have a vagina. and i have bought men plenty of gifts. said guy who i shared the pizza with and split the bottle of wine and the bill.... i bought him a birthday present - a box of chocolates, and we had only been dating for 2 weeks. i always do special things for the guys i am dating, i don't 'expect' really any special treatment from guys. and i'm starting to think that might be my problem - too low expectations. why shouldn't a florist be able to get me some free flowers from work? surely they must have some day or 2-day old boquets they are going to throw away.

 

and yes, on your second paragraph, why should a man go into debt for a woman he doesn't know? he shouldn't!!! but of course, if he comes up to a woman, to ask HER out, he should suggest something that works in his budget.

[grymoire]

What really gets me confused is what exactly women want anyway??? and why so much discrimination against men???

 

Women here keep claiming that they care two hoots about a guy's job or earnings and come down very harshly on men that make such assumptions. I was ripped apart for mentioning my job and education...... One woman was critical to the point where she said only women with low standards would date me.. why? Because I mentioned about my job and education...

 

And then threads like these exist... where women are talking about their boyfriends wearing suits, owning huge homes with swimming pools and jacuzzi, etc etc..... and not even negative remark would be made on them anyway....

 

I am not saying there is something wrong with women wanting a boyfriend that has a good job or career... but what really irks me is the denial of that fact and the heavy criticism unleashed on men that say that.... only to turn around and give vivid descriptions about how rich their current boyfriend is...

[thejigsup]

I agree with Annie, I have bought many, many things for men. When men don't, or can't, return the favor, it doesn't work. The realtionship becomes unbalanced. I am sorry that you have never met a nice, giving woman Captain. Once you do, you will never go back to selfish women. We give a lot, but we expect something back in return.

[ProtestTheHero]

My personal bias for equality is very much evident I agree. You are from a rich family as you stated, you have had everything given to you, perhaps you are the one who has the bias because you do not properly understand the annoyance of having to wash away hard earned money on someone who probably doesn't even care about you. In that respect I think Annie should give some of these guys a little bit of slack.

 

Sometimes it would indeed be nice to feel appreciated.

 

I just want to clarify some obvious misconceptions that you have. Yes, we have money. My family is in business. I am on my way to becoming an attorney. The only expense that my parents have paid is a 1/4 of the cost of my books because I am on a full scholarship. I would be on my way to financial stability regardless of my family situation. I have no intention of being a Paris Hilton-like freeloader.

 

Now, I would agree that we view money differently. While I do my best to be financially responsible, money in and of itself is not of great importance to me, which is why I don't mind paying for dates. A guy scrounging for cash would be a different story. I think we must be careful to not harshly judge these guys, and that's why I suggest that they have an alternate means of making sure that their date has a good time through proper planning.

 

If you are sinking in debt and can barely make your payments and are living paycheck to paycheck, I'm not sure if it's wise to enter into anything serious until you can get your head above water so to speak.

 

Why is there a gender emphasis at all in this thread. The ASKER should pay. The gender of the asker is irrelevant.

[CaptainPlanet]

When my friends ask me out to dinner to catch up I do not expect that they should show that they like me by paying for my meal. We each pay our own way. It should be the same with dating. Each of you are complementing each other with your presense and that he has taken time out of his life to see you, and you have taken time out of your life to see him. The payment of the meal should be payed for by the person who ate it ! If a simple meal is going to become between us, what will she be like when we're married ? There is something else to think about.

[annie24]

then, i guess, the real issue for me isn't that i need a rich man, it's that i need someone who is thoughtful and plans in advance. most of the men i've dated have been poor students, and that's always been fine with me. but i don't know.... now that i am getting older, i think i'm starting to feel tired of it. not of the poor students, exactly, but the guy asking me on a date that he can't comfortably afford.

 

i mean, i am a student too. why should i have to pay for the food too? ok, now that's starting to sound kind of harsh, but the truth is, that i rarely go out to restaurants, i usually cook my own meals to save money. if i go on a date, and then have to pay (at the restaurant he chose, on the date he asked me out on), i mean, that cuts into my budget also. maybe i should just stay home, tell him no thanks? but of course, i don't know if he wants to split the bill or not until the end of the dinner.

[CaptainPlanet]

That you have a scholarship makes very little difference. Wealthy people seldom notice the things that their parents pay for or the help that they receive through their lives. You are privileged and there is not much else too that consideration.

 

What you're trying to argue is what my friend has tried to argue. His parents have 10 million dollars, but he is 'not a rich kid' because he works at McDonald's. They don't even buy him anything - apart from the 20 grand they dropped for his car that he will be 'paying back' and the abundance of clothes and electronics equipment he seems to have coming from nowhere. Am I jealous of him ? Yes I am. Am I jealous of you - of course I am, now that we have that out of the way.

 

Take for example, a guy with $200 a week spare who doesn't have financial support who is trying to save, for whom not saving is not merely a personal failure but a matter of life and death. Dropping $80 a week for a meal with a woman is a big deal. Thats almost $4,000 per year. Taken over a 4 year degree.. that money adds up fast. I think it is just inconsiderate of a woman to expect a man to be dropping that kind of cash regularly - given their financial situation. The one thing I really can't stand is people grubbing after what little money I have - then I suppose you've got to drop a 20% tip. Glad we Aussies get out of that one at least.

 

money in and of itself is not of great importance to me, which is why I don't mind paying for dates.

 

That there is the heart of the issue. Money shouldn't be of great importance between two people, but unfortunately according to this conversation it is important to the extent that over the payment of simple meal we might decide who will may spend the rest of our lives with; as a mate a person with whom we might one day produce children. Over a few lousy dollars for a piece of meat.

 

You tell me that money is not the most important to these people ? Do you call that shallow because I certainly do. If you're happy, Annie being that way then no one can stop you. What I won't do is allow it to be presented in a way that describes it as anything other than shallow so that a good person can go and do bad things under the pretense that it is all acceptable. Its not - pay your own way.

[annie24]

If you are sinking in debt and can barely make your payments and are living paycheck to paycheck, I'm not sure if it's wise to enter into anything serious until you can get your head above water so to speak.

 

yeah, i am kind of concerned that this guy i had the date with this week is in that situation. i don't know! given that he's 34, he was living with his parents 2 years ago to save money, and now is living with his friend to save money.... makes me wonder if he is really in a spot to be able to be in a relationship? at the risk of sounding non-PC, shouldn't you have it together by then? of course, i have no idea what these debts are that he's paying off. if he was injured when he didn't have insurance, that can take a long long time to pay off.

[CaptainPlanet]

The gender of the asker is irrelevant.

 

The gender is extremely relevant because the asker is almost always male.

[grymoire]

Why is there a gender emphasis at all in this thread. The ASKER should pay. The gender of the asker is irrelevant.

 

Yeah right...

 

and Men always have to be the asker.... women don't ask out men.

[annie24]

Its not - pay your own way.

 

but we're not talking about friendship here. we're talking of romantic love. presumably, when a guy approaches me, tells me i'm beautiful and wants to get dinner with me, i assume that he's trying to 'put his best foot forward' and seeing if we have any romantic chemistry. i think so much of dating is based on these sorts of niceties. friends split the bill. but of course, this guy is hoping that i see him as 'more than a friend', right? otherwise, he wouldn't be asking me out on a date.

[bijoux27]

Yeah right...

 

and Men always have to be the asker.... women don't ask out men.

 

On the contrary

[grymoire]

but we're not talking about friendship here. we're talking of romantic love. presumably, when a guy approaches me, tells me i'm beautiful and wants to get dinner with me, i assume that he's trying to 'put his best foot forward' and seeing if we have any romantic chemistry. i think so much of dating is based on these sorts of niceties. friends split the bill. but of course, this guy is hoping that i see him as 'more than a friend', right? otherwise, he wouldn't be asking me out on a date.

 

haha... talk about Feminism and Equal Opportunities... American woman yap the whole day about equal rights and opportunities and then expect the men to do all the asking out and also paying for dinners...

 

I once told to my feminist friend "I don't admire Feminists... because they want only Equal Opportunities, not Equal Responsibilities".