I think I'm too selfless.

[Perrin83]

So, there's a couple of girls I'm interested in. They both have boyfriends that are controlling/emotionally abusive, yadda, yadda, yadda. I know I can treat them better, treat them how they deserve to be treated. The problem is: whenever conversation shifts towards their relationships, I seem to only be able to give them advice on how to make it work.

 

Dont get me wrong, I flirt with them..a lot. But it's the innocent type, because they're not single. And one of them definitely knows that I'm interested (if she breaks up with her boyfriend).

 

Any advice on how to man up and take charge?

[fastball2113]

Too late, your friendzoned. When girls complain about relationships they are not looking to hear how to fix it...they want someone to vent to. The girls you like have bfs, find some new targets

[jettison]

If you have to "act like a man", or "be a jerk" just to score the woman then you've already lost. That means that you're not yourself, that you'll be found out n good time and outed as the nice guy that you are, and that any romantic relationship you're able to forge under those parameters is doomed to fail.

 

These women you speak of may very well be attracted to and fall in love with absolute creeps. But heh, these guys aren't acting. They likely ARE jerks. They didn't have to contemplate becoming someone that they're not. And as a reward, they get the ladies... some ladies. Not all ladies. There are all kinds of women out there.

 

You should be concentrating on going after someone who just fits your temperament better, and also who is, of course, single to begin with. Again, one thing a woman can sniff from 10 miles away is some guy who is trying to be something that he's not. Time to think up a new tactic if that's your contemplation.

[Perrin83]

You misunderstand. I'm not looking to be a jerk. That's not the kind of person I am, or will ever be. What I mean by "man up" is be more assertive about my intentions.

 

The one girl (who knows i'm interested), I've known for 8 years. When we first met, she was dating a good friend of mine at the time. He was a good guy, just not right for her (it took them 2 years to kiss).

 

Also, I'm not just looking to score. I don't persue women that I wouldn't go LT with.

[nutbrownhare]

The best way to man up and take charge is to find yourself someone who's single to start with. And going out with someone on the rebound from another relationship is a very risky business, especially if you want something LT.

 

If you find yourself constantly attracted to girls who are unavailable, for whatever reason, this could be that you unconsciously have some issues around relationships and intimacy.

[Perrin83]

The best way to man up and take charge is to find yourself someone who's single to start with. And going out with someone on the rebound from another relationship is a very risky business, especially if you want something LT.

 

If you find yourself constantly attracted to girls who are unavailable, for whatever reason, this could be that you unconsciously have some issues around relationships and intimacy.

 

I am attracted to single girls as well, and I have no problem leaving girls in a relationship to their relationship. It just irks me when a beautiful girl, with a wonderful personality gets crapped on time and time again by the same type of people.

 

I know that they'll eventually see the type of person they're with, and break up with them, and I want to be there when they're available, so I can show them how they deserve to be treated.

 

I think what really bothers me about myself is that I (speaking from experience, I'm divorced) give them advice on ways they can repair damage and stuff, when their partner's aren't going to change anyways. I feel like i'm prolonging the misery, but I can't bring myself to say, "You should break up with him. He's not treating you how you deserve."

[jenny_mcs]

It's called "The White Knight Syndrome" and it's not that uncommon. You are attracted to women who have some kind of conflict/problem/drama in their life. You fantasize about "saving" them and "showing them how they deserve to be treated."

 

You have told yourself that you get into these situations because you are so wonderful and selfless (see thread title), but it really reveals a pretty deep insecurity inside of you. Being around these women who are in problem relationships makes you feel good about yourself- you feel like you can "fix things" and "save them".

 

Work on feeling better about yourself- and when you are at that point, women who have their act together will be attractive to you.

[Perrin83]

It's called "The White Knight Syndrome" and it's not that uncommon. You are attracted to women who have some kind of conflict/problem/drama in their life. You fantasize about "saving" them and "showing them how they deserve to be treated."

 

You have told yourself that you get into these situations because you are so wonderful and selfless (see thread title), but it really reveals a pretty deep insecurity inside of you. Being around these women who are in problem relationships makes you feel good about yourself- you feel like you can "fix things" and "save them".

 

Work on feeling better about yourself- and when you are at that point, women who have their act together will be attractive to you.

 

Like I said before, I'm attracted to single girls as well, people that have a successful life. I've just known this girl for a long time and I've always been attracted to her, on an emotional and physical level.

 

The only thing that stopped me from asking her out when she broke up with my friend, was my friendship with him, otherwise I probably wouldn't be posting this right now. And most of the girls that I talk to about their problems have self esteem issues anyways, which is a turn off for me.

[Tom the fool]

Any advice on how to man up and take charge?

 

I would suggest (as advice) that you stop flattering yourself that what your doing is selflessness. It doesn't really make sense that if

 

a) you think they'd be better off with someone who will treat them well &

b) they come to you for advice

c) you tell them how to stick with the jerks they have

 

What might be going on is that you are telling them this as a way of not appearing to be self-centered about it (one of them knows you are available if she breaks up). But the problem is that, if you are giving them bad advice on the basis of protecting your own appearance, that means you are being very much self-centered.

 

On the matter of the advice that you might give to a woman who's asking you for advice, it's probably true that she just wants to vent. But it isn't always true. I think that a good consigliere would let his opinion be known (ie that she ought to break up with the jerks and find someone better), but not repeat it. If she's interested in fixing the situation, then you can tell her how to fix it, but at least she would know that you consider this a second-best option. (This sort of thing may be counter-productive to landing a date, but that's not what I'm talking about in this paragraph).

 

Finally, it isn't the best situation to be the guy who's available if she decides to break it off with her boyfriend. It just puts you in a bad spot if she does any calculations in her decision making. She knows that she could have you if she so desires, but as soon as she breaks it off with her boyfriend, she loses the option of having him. thereforee, if she wants to keep her options open, she should stick with the jerk for now. Besides, given that you aren't actually dating someone else, she might not be so sure she wants to have you anyway. If the other girls aren't after you, why should she be?

[Perrin83]

Ok, so I might have considered your post if not for your last, ridiculous sentence. You're going off the (incorrect) assumption that she is as vain and superficial as the types of girls who aren't interested in me.

 

Thanks for trying, though.

[lostandhurt]

I see it as you are hanging around someone elses' s/o waiting to for it to fall apart. Don't be that guy. I don't care how bad they are treated, that is for them to get out of. Either you are a friend (friends don't break up relationships) or you are some guy trying in a very nice way to get with someone elses' girl. Walk away and MAN UP. Get your own girl and if they break up maybe.....

 

 

lost

[Perrin83]

I see it as you are hanging around someone elses' s/o waiting to for it to fall apart. Don't be that guy. I don't care how bad they are treated, that is for them to get out of. Either you are a friend (friends don't break up relationships) or you are some guy trying in a very nice way to get with someone elses' girl. Walk away and MAN UP. Get your own girl and if they break up maybe.....

 

 

lost

 

Unfortunately, there are no other women in my life that are interested in me, not that I'm sure she is, particularly. I guess it's friends now, and I'll see what the future holds? Is that a good mentality?

[Tom the fool]

If you think the rest of my post might have been helpful without the last sentence, why can't you just disregard the last sentence?

 

It ought to go without saying that I don't have anywhere near the kind of familiarity necessary to say whether your friend suffers from vanity and superficiality. But I for one don't think that a woman's allowing her emotions to be informed by the behavior of other women necessarily makes her vain and superficial. It would be vain if she relied entirely on the opinion of others to determine her own feelings about you, but that isn't what I meant to suggest. But she is certainly influenced by it. Have you ever known anyone who put people on their best behavior? You know, if he's around, nobody swears, people maybe start acting a little more respectfully towards each other, etc. This sort of thing usually doesn't just happen because this one individual produces this kind of energy. It's a social dynamic. You notice that no one else is swearing around him, and you just sort of pick up on it. That's the sort of thing I had in mind.

 

I find it a little odd, however, that you describe the "types of girls who aren't interested in" you as vain and superficial. I'm sure that some vain and superficial girls don't aren't interested because they're vain and superficial. But there's something suspect about attributing their lack of interest to one of their vices. It might be something bad about you. It might be something bad about her. But most likely, it's just her instincts that say: "No, not this one." And there's nothing blameworthy in that. I mention this, I swear, in the spirit of friendship. It sounds like you have some unhelpful habits of mind when it comes to thinking about women. I'm only getting that from this thread, so of course I don't know. But as a general rule, I think it is best not to attribute bad motives to these women. Usually, it isn't necessary to attribute any motives at all, but, when in doubt, be charitable.

[Tom the fool]

Unfortunately, there are no other women in my life that are interested in me, not that I'm sure she is, particularly. I guess it's friends now, and I'll see what the future holds? Is that a good mentality?

 

I have a question for others (and shortnr, too, but pardon the 3d person), here: what if shortnr just explained the situation to his friend, "Hey, I really like you, and I think you deserve better than your current boyfriend. Why don't you break up with him and let me take you out on a date? It'll be fun/special." Or something like that. I'm on shaky ground, here, but wouldn't she be able to say, "no," and the friendship could remain intact? While if she said yes, then shortnr would be in a better position?

[Perrin83]

I have a question for others (and shortnr, too, but pardon the 3d person), here: what if shortnr just explained the situation to his friend, "Hey, I really like you, and I think you deserve better than your current boyfriend. Why don't you break up with him and let me take you out on a date? It'll be fun/special." Or something like that. I'm on shaky ground, here, but wouldn't she be able to say, "no," and the friendship could remain intact? While if she said yes, then shortnr would be in a better position?

 

I'm not the type of person to suggest that someone else break up with their s/o to date me. I think that's wrong.

 

I guess this thread has been a little jumbled because I wrote it on a whim. My main question is: Why would I advise these girls on ways to help their relationship, when it may or may not help? Why should I be helping these guys that treat their girls like they do?

 

And I also want to apologize if I got snippy with anyone.

[Perrin83]

So, there's a couple of girls I'm interested in. They both have boyfriends that are controlling/emotionally abusive, yadda, yadda, yadda. I know I can treat them better, treat them how they deserve to be treated. The problem is: whenever conversation shifts towards their relationships, I seem to only be able to give them advice on how to make it work.

 

Dont get me wrong, I flirt with them..a lot. But it's the innocent type, because they're not single. And one of them definitely knows that I'm interested (if she breaks up with her boyfriend).

 

Any advice on how to man up and take charge?

 

Just to clarify, I know this whole thing sounds conceited, but really, I just know my worth as a person (I have many faults, just like most people).

[Tom the fool]

I'm not the type of person to suggest that someone else break up with their s/o to date me. I think that's wrong.

 

I guess this thread has been a little jumbled because I wrote it on a whim. My main question is: Why would I advise these girls on ways to help their relationship, when it may or may not help? Why should I be helping these guys that treat their girls like they do?

 

And I also want to apologize if I got snippy with anyone.

 

I think the only real justification you need for offering your advice on their staying together is her asking for it. That is *if* she wants advice on fixing the relationship and not if she wants advice about whether to stay in it. All advice is of the sort that it may not help. All you can do is give your perspective.

 

About your thought that asking a girl to break up with her s/o, I have a follow-up question, again, for all. This is a general question not necessarily pertaining to this case. It seems to me that there must be some acceptable means by which a girl may break up with her boyfriend in order to date someone else. I say this because there's nothing wrong in her making this change (if there were, then she would already be committed till death, which would mean she were married). It would be unreasonable to expect women to initiate a break-up without thought about other prospects, which means that, if other prospects are involved, those men must also play a part in her decision to break up with her boyfriend. But I also understand that certain sorts of things are just off-limits in terms of behavior. Maybe a straightforward verbal, "break up with him," is considered one of these off-limit things. If I were making the rules, this would be my preference, because it's quick, not open to misunderstanding, and avoids certain pitfalls of alternatives (for instance, cheating is one common response to such a situation; but asking her to break off the relationship first avoids the possibility of cheating. Subtle hints may be another means but these can be misinterpreted as feckless fawning). Is there a better path towards this? Should the man's role be (contrary to almost every other dating situation) almost entirely passive?

 

I did in fact ask a girl to break up with her s/o, in the following way:

"Do you want to go out on a date?"

"Really?"

"Yeah."

"I'm seeing someone."

"Break up."

"Not likely."

"Alright then, take it as a compliment."

 

Somewhat different context, since I didn't know she was dating until after I asked her out, but it hardly seemed to me at the time like I had committed a taboo.