Guy's night out

[RandomAdvisor]

I have a long and complicated history with my girlfriend but I'll spare this post of all that because it would take forever to get into. Let me just say that we have some issues. If there are any insights or observations into the nature of our relationship I'd love for you guys to make them - I'm curious to see if they'll match up with what my therapist says about us.

 

 

Anyhoo - My GF is into a lot of traditional guy things. She plays video games, and watches the same TV shows as me - including pro wrestling (yes, I know, it's dumb fun).

 

So I had plans with my friends for more than a week now for them to come hang out and play poker. Originally it had been for Friday, but because of conflicts it was pushed to today (Sunday) so we could also order a wrestling pay per view. My GF knew this was going to happen since Thursday. A few minutes ago she calls me at work to chat for a minute, and asks if she can come over to watch the PPV. All I say is that I don't know, that it might ruin the whole feel of guy's night. She doesn't express any regret or anger, and the conversation soon politely ends.

 

 

A minute later I receive the following text: (I've read so many posts on this site about Txt convos and shuttered. I'm officially a hypocrite now as I found myself dragged into this one.)

 

Thanks for being an (expletive - donkey euphemism) RandomAdvisor. If you have forgotten I am a girl who likes boy stuff including wrestling. So I am one of the guys. I am sorry I have a vagina.

 

To which I replied.

 

If you wanted to see it so badly you should have asked to come see it when you first knew this was happening - 2 days ago. Instead you put me on the spot last minute and try to make me feel guilty when I don't cave to your needy insecure unrealistic demands. Like always.

 

(actually I was wrong. It was 3 days in advance she knew it would be happening today)

 

And her reply

I did tell you that I was interested in seeing it a few days ago. I asked nicely if I could come over and you were a jerk about it.

 

If she expressed any interest in coming over I honestly do not remember it. As to her referring to asking to come, I assume she means when we spoke on the phone just now.

 

 

And then she sends one more.

 

 

You know that I like wrestling. I don't understand why it's so hard to invite me and see if I want to come. Instead I have to beg to spend time with you. FU

 

 

From my point of view, I had no plans to invite her over. I mean, it's a bunch of guys playing poker and watching pro wrestling! And on top of that, she didn't even ask me days in advance before it happened. She waits until the very last minute.

 

As I said in my text reply to her I think she is a bit needy and demanding, and this is another example of it. Is it fair for her to expect me to invite her over in this situation? Am I out of line?

[agent1607307371]

If you have forgotten I am a girl who likes boy stuff including wrestling. So I am one of the guys.

 

I think that she has forgotten that by being your girlfriend, she is automatically NOT one of the guys.

 

I can understand that she wants to see the PPV but I don't think you're in the wrong to keep your plans with your friends.

[metrogirl]

I think that she has forgotten that by being your girlfriend, she is automatically NOT one of the guys.

 

I can understand that she wants to see the PPV but I don't think you're in the wrong to keep your plans with your friends.

 

I agree with Agent.....

 

Unless you had some previous arrangement to watch it with her then she really shouldn't get annoyed that you are spending time with the guys playing poker and watching wrestling. She can easily watch it at her own house and let you do what guys do.

 

BTW.....I love wrestling too! (thanks to my 17 yr old son).

[Loki71]

Guys night out? Wow been so long since I had one of those let me think hmmmmm. I think you both might be over reacting some. No your not wrong for wanting a night with the guys, no she is not wrong for wanting to come too. But I think you both could have handled that better. Trust me I am the one that does everything wrong in a releationship so I know. If I was you I would call her and talk and explain in a claim polite way that you need some time with your friends without her and she needs the same from time to time. I have made this mistake and am in the wrost way because of it. If you don't each get time away from one another it will be worse later.

[metrogirl]

What about a compromise? You record the PPV and agree to watch it with her later after the guys leave.

[RandomAdvisor]

If I was you I would call her and talk and explain in a claim polite way that you need some time with your friends without her and she needs the same from time to time.

 

 

I am trying to follow the advice of my therapist here. I've tried the polite approach in the past and it hasn't quite worked. The problem is that my GF is too demanding, and she could have it her way we would literally be attached by the hip. I've been too accommodating of her in the past, and we're both the worse for it. The advice of my therapist has been basically, "Set your boundaries and let that be that. She has to get over it."

 

Which I have been trying to do, but then I get the guilt trips from her. So far no amount of polite explaining has worked. Either I give her what she wants when she wants it, or I am a bad boyfriend who neglects her.

[RandomAdvisor]

What about a compromise? You record the PPV and agree to watch it with her later after the guys leave.

 

 

I'll be recording it. She still wont be happy with me denying her now though.

[agent1607307371]

"Set your boundaries and let that be that. She has to get over it."

 

I agree with your therapist. I also think her reaction was way ott.

 

You are going to have to be the "bad guy" here for a while until she gets used to not being able to demand and have her demands pandered too.

[Loki71]

Either I give her what she wants when she wants it, or I am a bad boyfriend who neglects her.

 

Ok then since you have tried the nice way then yes I agree with him too. Just like a crying baby if you pick them up everytime they cry they will do it just to be held. She does need to understand that she can not always get her way. Just keep telling yourself your not the bad guy and stand your ground. It will be hard and take time but she will either learn to except it or leave.

[lisa1126]

It sounds like this isn't an isolated incident, meaning, you two must have had a lot of conflicts over other incidences. It sounds like your GF has a very very long way to go in maturing. It also sounds like your GF has a LOT of issues, I don't know what they are, but insecurity, fear of abondonment, inability to trust, anger, resentment, insecurity, neediness.

 

I commend you guys for trying to work this out by seeking therapist and all, but is your GF in a good place to have a boyfriend? Maybe she needs to do some growing up, work through her issues and heal before she can contribute positively to a relationship. just my humble thought...

 

For her to react that way to this particular circumstace seems out of line.

Your therapist seems right on the money. If you can continue to draw boundary and stick to it and let her either take it or leave it that's fine. But if your GF continue to engender guilt on you, I don't think you are healthy or strong enough to take her on. Maybe you need to think about whether this relationship is a good one or detrimental to your health.

[RandomAdvisor]

Some history.

 

 

We were together for six and a half years, the last year and a half of which we were engaged. She cheated on me early into our relationship (which is why I first found this site). I never got over her cheating on me, and last November I broke off the engagement and left her. Didn't speak for five months. With the help of my therapist I realize that the reason I never got over my anger with my GF was because of issues with my mother (cliche but very true).

 

So I contact my GF, explain myself and we get back together. The honey moon period of happy being together again was over very, very quickly. Then the endless guilt I had to feel over breaking up with her started. We went to my therapist a couple of times (I initially sought her out because she specializes in couples issues). My therapist basically said we didn't need couples therapy - we had individual issues that we needed to work out separately. My GF didnt' want to hear that. She wanted us to go over - in detail - everything that I had done to her, and had done when we were apart, and arguments we'd had. My therapist said that she wanted to revisit things that were said in anger, and it was best to let it go.

 

So my GF demands we go to a new therapist who would be more neutral. Fine. The new therapist says the exact same thing and we only go for two sessions.

 

I knew I'd have a lot of making up to do, but my GF's guilt trips and demands and neediness go beyond my leaving her - they are issues that are part of her personality (and were a contributing factor to my leaving her).

 

As far as leaving again - I've already been thinking about it. I just don't want to have any doubts if I do. My therapist tells me I can be too impulsive and I need to process my emotions before I act. The first thing that went through my head when she sent me that text was "You know what? FU. I don't need this $%&*. I should just leave you again."

 

There's a good chance that will happen, but I don't want it to until I've exhausted every other option so I can leave with no regrets.

 

 

 

As for right now, I'm already planning on leaving the city for two days. I'm wondering if I should tell her I don't want to speak to her for the week (I'll see my therapist this Thursday) so I can think about this, and/or if I should be making some demands right now - like for an apology.

 

Oh yeah, another issue she has that came out with our brief stint in therapy - she can be very unclear in her communication. She expects me to be a mind reader, and this issue was another instance of that I think. She tested me by waiting for me to invite her to this PPV, and I failed. Then she asks to come and when I decline she starts fuming.

[d24]

I'm sorry to say but the problem was this message you sent to her:

 

If you wanted to see it so badly you should have asked to come see it when you first knew this was happening - 2 days ago. Instead you put me on the spot last minute and try to make me feel guilty when I don't cave to your needy insecure unrealistic demands. Like always.

 

You could have contained the situation and explained that although you know she enjoys it, it's supposed to be a guy's night in and her presense would throw that out of the window. You could have also said yu would record it and watch it again with her.

 

I'm not surprised she overreacted because it was an extremely patronising response on your part.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

I think you should listen to the therapists. This isn't about a guys night out, this is about her wanting to be welded at the hip with you, and control what you do, with whom, and when.

 

Honestly, most women (even if they liked wrestling) wouldn't feel the need to muscle in on a guy's night out if it made the boyfriend happy to hang around with the guys on his own for a while (just like she might want to hang around with the girls on her own).

 

So she is trying to control you and all your time and make sure she is involved in every minute of it, which is not healthy.

 

And honestly, she just doesn't sound like any fun at all, and in fact sounds quite rude and selfish. It is not appropriate to send 'FU' messages like that or fight in that kind of way, or no relationship survives.

 

If she won't address her own neediness and control issues, recognize that this is the way your life will always be. Do you want that? If not, then you might make the decision to leave.

[Pixiemeat]

If I knew my bf was having guys over to watch something I too really wanted to watch, I wouldn't muscle in on it. She needs to appreciate that guy time is guy time. You seem like a nice guy who really doesn't do this very often, so it's hardly as if you're out every week with the guys ignoring her. In a way, I think from this one post you seem too close, largely because she always wants to be around you.

 

Ever think she wants to be joined at the hip because it might stop her from cheating again?

 

Either way, enjoy your night with the guys and don't feel guilty about it! She'll get over it.

[metrogirl]

Do you see how she has manipulated you into feeling guilty that you broke up with her (the cheater)?

 

Why does she need to talk about everything you did to her and the arguments that were had as a result of her being unfaithful? What needs to be addressed is why she cheated and how it made you feel not the other way around.

 

IMO she sounds extremely immature. You have to ask yourself if you can see spending many years with a woman that blames you for her actions and takes no responsibility and then wants to dictate when you can and can't have time with the guys.

 

Not a healthy way to start the relationship over.

[Excalibur]

Tell her since she's such a "self-reliant" guy - she can pay for the PPV herself, and watch it at her place.

 

 

She's being very 'girly" expecting to be given to because she has a "want".

[ycmanvs]

This is all about setting boundaries.

You have to be very firm with her, but not mean about it. You must let her know that you would love to see it with her, but that this is a guy's night and even though she loves the same things you do, she is still your girlfriend and not one of the guys. You tell her that it will make everyone uncomfortable if she is there and it would not be fair to the other guys or to you, to change the plans now.

If she is not happy with this situation, that is her choice. You did nothing wrong. You should not have to choose between your friends and her. It sounds like she has some serious separation anxiety so she is doing everything possible to manipulate the situation so that you give in. Please stay strong and do not let her come over that night.

 

If she becomes irrational and angry, tell her that you do not wish to discuss this further when she is emotional. Tell her that you love her, but you need your boundaries to be respected.

[RandomAdvisor]

I'm sorry to say but the problem was this message you sent to her:

 

 

 

You could have contained the situation and explained that although you know she enjoys it, it's supposed to be a guy's night in and her presense would throw that out of the window. You could have also said yu would record it and watch it again with her.

 

I'm not surprised she overreacted because it was an extremely patronising response on your part.

 

 

I can see your point, but I had already attempted to politely explain this to her over the phone by saying that her being there would ruin the mood for guy's night out. She didn't say anything so I felt no need to explain it further. Then 2 minutes after we're off the phone I get that nasty text message from her.

 

I don't disagree that I could have been a little more diplomatic with my response, but I'm tired of trying to explain these things to her and I'm taking my therapist's advice of making her just deal with it.

 

And I find all of the manipulative comments pretty funny. When I was trying to convince her to give me a second chance months ago she accused me of being manipulative. What she called manipulation on my part basically consisted of me telling her what I wanted, and trying to persuade her. Pressuring, maybe. But manipulative? I found it interesting she chose that word.

 

My therapist has pointed out her attempts to manipulate me into feeling guilty lately (which she has succeeded at) and I also remember an interesting example of her trying to manipulate me shortly before she cheated. She felt that I wasn't giving her enough affection when she was away at college, so instead of telling me this she would give me examples everyday we spoke on the phone of all the guys who were checking her out - trying to make me jealous.

 

That was years ago, and she doesn't do anything to that extreme now but it's still there to some extent.

 

I didn't speak to her when I was away, and I'm seeing my therapist tomorrow. If she calls me tonight I'm not going to answer. At this point, I think what I'm going to do is state my case (most of the things said in this thread) as diplomatically as possible, and tell her I need her to acknowledge how her insecurity has blown this situation up. She really needs to work on her insecurity with her therapist (she is also seeing one on her own). If she remains adamant that I was being a jerk by trying to keep my private time with my friends, then I think it will be time for us to part ways....

[RandomAdvisor]

Spoke to her last night. She says the whole thing was a misunderstanding. She reminded me that back in April I had told her she was invited over for PPV's, which is true. I did say that. And if it had been just the PPV I would have invited her myself, but primarily I saw it as a poker thing which it was originally, and the PPV just got added in for convenience's sake. I also said this situation could have been avoided had it not been her trademark failure to express herself: if she had just asked me why I didn't want her to come and given me an opportunity to explain myself the whole thing could have been avoided.

 

She denies that she is needy. She also said she wants to be with me all the time. I pointed out that isn't possible, and she replied, "I know. But can't we be with each other as much as possible though?"

 

 

She said she feels like I am not trying in the relationship and she has been feeling upset about this for the past month and a half, which is why she got so angry when I denied her on Sunday. I pointed out to her recent examples of me accommodating her and spending time with her, and she said she has noticed them and appreciates it. I tried to point out this contradiction to her and say that as long as she wants to be with me all the time (or as much as possible) then anything that I give short of that will never be enough, and she's always going to be left feeling disappointed. She couldn't see it....

 

She pointed out that in the past I have expressed a lot of frustration with her about expecting me to read her mind and give her what she wants, and now that she is a bit more open about telling me what she wants I accuse her of being demanding. This is true. But I don't think telling someone what you want is necessarily demanding, it depends on how often you want something, whether or not the request is reasonable, and how you react if you don't get it. For example: trying to muscle in on a guy's night and then blowing up when you are told no is an example of being demanding.

 

 

She also denied that her texts to me were an attempt to make me feel guilty or invite her to come over, she was just trying to express how she was feeling which was constructive.

 

I told her she needs to work on the neediness with her therapist and she says I am out of line telling her what she talks to her therapist about. Maybe I am. But I'd just like some reassurance that she is going to work on this if I am going to make the decision to stay.

 

When the conversation was ending she said good night and I told her I loved her. She just said good night again. I've been noticing this for the past week or two - she no longer says I love you when we're done talking even when I say it.

 

We're going to be hanging out later today. I want to talk about this more but I'm really not sure exactly what to say, and/or how to say it.