Not letting people touch you...

[amethyst exchange]

Gah, I'm officially worthless now as a sexual being....

 

I've been seeing this woman for the last month and we were just starting to get intimate. Each and every time we've actually got close to anything remotely close to sex...(I mean beyond kissing) my head (mind brain, eyes ears and nose...not...the other one) explodes with all these...voices. I start feeling really guilty about the situation and feel sick about it and we have to..stop.

 

She's been really understanding about it saying that it is really early anyways and been really sweet about it. However, I know she's getting frustrated with it. And I can't even let her touch me...it hurts. It's like someone screaming in my head. Now, we don't hug or kiss or even hold hands. I just...can't. She took my hand last night when we were waiting in line for the movies and I winced...and kind of slid my hand away from her. I know it devestated her, she gave me this look like I'd ripped her heart out. I couldn't even look her in the eye the rest of the night, I felt so bad. It just feels like every time she shows me any affection it...hurts.

 

All I can think anymore is that if I weren't such a coward, or if I wasn't so useless...or worthless none of this would be a problem. It just seems everytime I get into a situation like this every insecurity I have roars in my head. I try to ignore it, but it doesn't work.

[bijoux27]

Why do you think it's like that....??

[amethyst exchange]

Why do you think it's like that....??

 

I have massive insecurities about...myself; well I say insecurities...more like I hate myself. I constantly think she's just placating me...I guess...or just being nice to me out of pity. She says stuff about me, positive stuff, and I just don't see it, so I think she's lying for one reason or another. Not that I say that to her. I just end up beating myself up afterwards about it, asking myself how could I let her say that about me and crap.

[Jetta]

Why would you hate yourself so much? She is NOT placacing you. But you will turn her away if you keep this up. You may need therapy to get to the source of this self-hatred. Really there's no reason to hate yourself this much, none at all.

[amethyst exchange]

Why would you hate yourself so much? She is NOT placacing you. But you will turn her away if you keep this up. You may need therapy to get to the source of this self-hatred. Really there's no reason to hate yourself this much, none at all.

 

Because I'm not a very nice person...

 

I'm selfish and lazy and arrogant and manipulative. I could be so amazing...but I'm stuck in my freaking head...

 

I can't afford therapy. And even if I could I don't have the time. And even if I had the time, they can't help because I can't trust them.

 

Maybe it's best if she ran away....everyone else does...I don't know...Gah...I feel so freaking utterly...contemptable.

[Clementine orange]

I'm selfish and lazy and arrogant and manipulative. .

 

Many,many, even most people have these elements in their personality at least to some degree. What makes you think you are so special?

You need to break the cycle of negative thinking here.

[amethyst exchange]

Many,many, even most people have these elements in their personality at least to some degree. What makes you think you are so special?

You need to break the cycle of negative thinking here.

 

Well...the arrogance part helps....

 

But mostly because I could be special...I could be amazing...if I weren't so useless in my head. I have no reason to believe that I'm anything other than what I think I am. Women leave me for better people, my family is just tolerating me due to genetic heritage, everyone else seems to get so much more done...and they're not even that clever...

[bijoux27]

If she was only being nice to you out of pity why would she look so hurt from what happened in this incident?

 

She took my hand last night when we were waiting in line for the movies and I winced...and kind of slid my hand away from her. I know it devestated her, she gave me this look like I'd ripped her heart out.

 

Maybe you could start doing things little by little. Touch her first. Get used to her body. Explore her (I don't mean all over just yet). Talk to her about these feelings you have. The more you communicate and share things about yourself, the more you may grow to trust her.

[amethyst exchange]

If she was only being nice to you out of pity why would she look so hurt from what happened in this incident?

 

I don't know...maybe she was trying to hurt me...and make me feel guilty about myself. That's what it usually is...

 

Maybe you could start doing things little by little. Touch her first. Get used to her body. Explore her (I don't mean all over just yet). Talk to her about these feelings you have. The more you communicate and share things about yourself, the more you may grow to trust her.

 

I couldn't touch her...it'd feel like I was imposing myself on her. Even if it wasn't everywhere...it'd feel, wrong.

 

I couldn't tell her the things I felt. She'd get terrified of me. The stuff she says about me is nice and if I told her how angry that stuff made me...she'd run. People just don't understand. And it's...not something she should have to deal with, and if I was a proper person she wouldn't have to. I don't want her worrying about me, I guess. I always want to be fine with her. I don't need her worrying about me and trying to help me when she can't. It'd just disappoint her and make her depressed...and I have enough guilt in my head to have that put on me too.

[phish]

maybe one day, just take a deep breath, and realize that she wants you. just tell her how you feel, and just spoon in front of a movie or something. take your sweet time with it. maybe even put another movie in. she accepts you, trust her on that. if you ever have that self-hatred, just remember that she accepts you. yeah, you can improve, but you can't go anywhere until you let go of the hatred.

[bijoux27]

I don't know...maybe she was trying to hurt me...and make me feel guilty about myself. That's what it usually is...

 

It's very very very difficult to fake a feeling. You looked into her eyes. And saw genuine hurt. There's no reason she'd want to hurt you, she's your gf. And a new one at that.

 

 

 

I couldn't touch her...it'd feel like I was imposing myself on her. Even if it wasn't everywhere...it'd feel, wrong.

 

I couldn't tell her the things I felt. She'd get terrified of me. The stuff she says about me is nice and if I told her how angry that stuff made me...she'd run. People just don't understand. And it's...not something she should have to deal with, and if I was a proper person she wouldn't have to. I don't want her worrying about me, I guess. I always want to be fine with her. I don't need her worrying about me and trying to help me when she can't. It'd just disappoint her and make her depressed...and I have enough guilt in my head to have that put on me too.

 

If you're down with someone, you've got to have this communication. To have a real gf/bf is not about having them only for show...you go through different experiences together. She's your partner. You don't have to tell her all at once.

 

Listen it took me a while to get more comfortable with my SO. But little by little, we progressed. There were a few hard times where I just wanted to sleep (my way of escaping the situation), but I continued to talk to him and you know what, it made me a better, more happier and more fulfilled person. It brought me out of my shell and allowed me to experience life.

 

Don't be afraid of what you DON'T know.....more often than you think, you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Haven]

Have you considered seeing a psychiatrist? I'm not sure if you are literally hearing voices/noises in your head or not. Regardless, you shouldn't be feeling so much guilt from physical contact.

[Clementine orange]

Dude, you soooo need to become an artist or musician. It's the only way.

[flyoffthewall]

I agree with bijoux. The more you keep what you are feeling inside, the more you will feed your fear about the situation. I find that when I have a breakthrough in a relationship with a lover, it is often out of a conversation like this. It brings you closer to the person you want to be with, and you will likely strengthen the ties that you have, making it easier to touch.

 

If that fails, maybe you should just experiment with changing the way you feel about the situation. When I feel uncomfortable and know that I am getting in my own way, sometimes I try to imagine that I am someone else who would be bold or confident enough to do what I want to do, but am having trouble doing.

[Rising]

It sounds like you are having invasive subconscious thoughts based on an extremely negative sense of self. I'd guess that even if she weren't in the picture you'd have a pretty harsh view of yourself and that it's so difficult for you to imagine someone liking you that you keep them at a distance to save them the trouble of finding it out for themselves... even if its not even close to true.

 

One way you might try to overcome this is by forcing yourself to recognize your good points. Constantly beating yourself up will only reaffirm these negative ideas in your head. Ask your gf to tell you what she likes about you and when she's telling you DO NOT INTERRUPT (out loud or in your head for that matter). She's not going to sit there and lie to you for the sake of lying. Accepting that you have positive aspects to your personality doesn't make you arrogant or conceited.

 

You say that when she gives you compliments that you don't see it... well you have to understand that your perception of who you are may not necessarily be the right one. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true.

 

Being 'selfish, lazy, arrogant and manipulative' is a choice. You've chosen to recognize that these are issues about yourself that you don't like and that's the first step towards conquering them. You have to make the decision that you want to change though. It's not going to happen by itself, and especially if you beat yourself down verbally/emotionally.

 

When psychologists help people overcome strong fears (phobias) sometimes they use a behavioral therapy technique called 'gradual desensitization'. The basic idea is this:

 

They help you to come to realize your fear is irrational through a step-by-step process of talking about the fear and gradual exposure to it. Ex. Spiders. First we talk about them. Then we look at a picture of one. Then we look at one from a distance inside protective glass. Then outside of the glass but still far. etc etc until finally you are holding it in your hand and face the fact that whatever horrible ideas you had are not actually coming true.

 

The same might work for you for this issue.

You might consider trying this with your girlfriend. Sit down with her and just talk about things at first. Don't use ANY negative words about yourself and don't put words into your gf's mouth. Be honest with her about your fears and reservations but remember to keep from turning it into a self-beatdown.

 

Start by making simple progressions. Look at each other. Then after some time touch your fingers to hers. Then palms to palms. Touch your nose to hers, then your forehead... etc etc. At some point you can kiss and move on slowly. The moment you begin feeling these negative thoughts or hearing the voices you can pull back a bit. Find out where the point is that you start losing control and having the negative reaction and take a small step back. Talk your way through it and try to find positive and happy feelings in your physical interactions.

 

I know this may seem overly 'fluffy' and lame but it can really help. Just taking the time to go through these steps can even bring you and your gf closer. If you can trust her, and you really want to be able to move on in a relationship then it can really help.

Trusting someone in a relationship is saying to yourself that you trust them enough not to trash you emotionally and that you open yourself up to the possibility because you care about them enough to let your defenses down.

 

You said 'you could be amazing'. It's true. You could be a horrible person, you could be amazing, you could also just be whoever you want to be. You probably spend way too much time thinking about what you aren't or what you should be and it ends up paralyzing you. Just be. Try hard to be good to the people who are good to you and you'll be fine.

 

You'd be surprised about what messages you send people without even saying it. Your negative views about yourself come out whether they are put to words. You said 'women leave you for better people' but I have a feeling thats a lot more of your impression that they are better than you and less of a fact. Your negative sense of self may be contagious and end up causing the girl to somehow agree on some level and want to move on. Accept your faults and work on them... and then recognize the positives in you and you'll be much better off for it.

 

If you are worried about her running then you've got to open up to her... hiding these strong feelings will only push her away. If you are honest with her I'm fairly certain she will appreciate it and try to work with you. A girl that's worth holding onto definitely would.

 

Hope this stuff works out. Keep us updated.

 

-Rising

[amethyst exchange]

It sounds like you are having invasive subconscious thoughts based on an extremely negative sense of self. I'd guess that even if she weren't in the picture you'd have a pretty harsh view of yourself and that it's so difficult for you to imagine someone liking you that you keep them at a distance to save them the trouble of finding it out for themselves... even if its not even close to true.

 

Yeah, I was actively avoiding relationships when she just sort of...started...being next to me. I'm not even sure how it happened. It just seemed like she grafted herself into my life. And I hurt so badly anyways, I didn't have the willpower to fight her off.

 

You get really lonely and the voices get to be the only thing in your head. You end up wanting someone just so you have something to deflect your thoughts. Rather than inward you have someone to care for...I sound like she's my pet...how horrible is that...

 

One way you might try to overcome this is by forcing yourself to recognize your good points. Constantly beating yourself up will only reaffirm these negative ideas in your head. Ask your gf to tell you what she likes about you and when she's telling you DO NOT INTERRUPT (out loud or in your head for that matter). She's not going to sit there and lie to you for the sake of lying. Accepting that you have positive aspects to your personality doesn't make you arrogant or conceited.

 

It's not like I have control over those things. The voices just come, I've tried to shut them up but they won't. I don't know. Lot's of people lie to me. Important people that just wanted me for something so were nice...

 

You say that when she gives you compliments that you don't see it... well you have to understand that your perception of who you are may not necessarily be the right one. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true.

 

I don't let her do any complimenting any more, no gifts either. I hate gifts. You get trapped in the whole gift debt thing...and I'm not good at gift giving...

 

Being 'selfish, lazy, arrogant and manipulative' is a choice. You've chosen to recognize that these are issues about yourself that you don't like and that's the first step towards conquering them. You have to make the decision that you want to change though. It's not going to happen by itself, and especially if you beat yourself down verbally/emotionally.

 

It isn't a choice. Not really. We all know that this is basically for the sex. No matter how much shmaltz I pour on, how much romance and 'altruism' I make up, it's all about the sex. And I hate that, I hate that everything I do and say and think is eventually in some way about me...living long enough to have my penis penetrate a vagina for the purpose of creating a zygote and having a child. It's manipulation on such a worldwide basic scale that people don't even realize they are doing it. My life, everything I do is inherently selfish, even charity is simply a way of deflecting away my selfish nature so I can justify my humanitarian feelings of myself. The laziness is more due to abject fear and depression that kills my ambitions than anything else. When I work and you know have a clearly defined goal I can do it if that goal doesn't result in something that scares the crap out of me.

 

When psychologists help people overcome strong fears (phobias) sometimes they use a behavioral therapy technique called 'gradual desensitization'.....

Start by making simple progressions. Look at each other. Then after some time touch your fingers to hers. Then palms to palms. Touch your nose to hers, then your forehead... etc etc. At some point you can kiss and move on slowly. The moment you begin feeling these negative thoughts or hearing the voices you can pull back a bit. Find out where the point is that you start losing control and having the negative reaction and take a small step back. Talk your way through it and try to find positive and happy feelings in your physical interactions.

 

I could always touch her before...it was only when she wanted more that I became...useless. I don't like the idea of her liking me that much. I almost hate her for it. So many large parts of me want her to stop caring about me. She looks at me and smiles and I just...hate her for it. But I know that's wrong inside so...I feel guilty about it and I shove it down because that can't be how I really feel, right?

 

And I don't hate her...per se. I just hate that she...likes me. I don't know why.

 

You'd be surprised about what messages you send people without even saying it. Your negative views about yourself come out whether they are put to words. You said 'women leave you for better people' but I have a feeling thats a lot more of your impression that they are better than you and less of a fact. Your negative sense of self may be contagious and end up causing the girl to somehow agree on some level and want to move on. Accept your faults and work on them... and then recognize the positives in you and you'll be much better off for it.

 

If you are worried about her running then you've got to open up to her... hiding these strong feelings will only push her away. If you are honest with her I'm fairly certain she will appreciate it and try to work with you. A girl that's worth holding onto definitely would.

 

Hope this stuff works out. Keep us updated.

 

-Rising

 

the last couple of girls said I was impossible, and they were right, and they went on to get people that were like me but...not an emotional sinkhole. As soon as they started to care, I got really depressed, which of course made them depressed, which made me more depressed because I made them depressed and it spiralled and nothing they could do helped, there was nothing they could do, they just had to deal with it (and them trying to help only made it worse because then I'd feel guilty about not being fixed when they tried to help). I drained them dry and burned them out, and all the while I hated myself for it and hated them for putting up with it and saying they loved me when I knew that they couldn't love an emotional leech like me. I actually wanted them to hate me, and run because...I was destroying them and I could see it but I couldn't for whatever reason just dump them...

[amethyst exchange]

This is an interesting thread...

 

 

 

what's wrong with being told you're nice? you think it's a set up or what?

 

I think it's a lie. I know it's a lie..well worse than that. I know that I'm not nice. And that she thinks I am tells me that she...is going to get hurt.

 

I don't like her caring for me because she'll get hurt. I don't like her worrying about me because...then I worry about her and it spirals.

[amethyst exchange]

Have you considered seeing a psychiatrist? I'm not sure if you are literally hearing voices/noises in your head or not. Regardless, you shouldn't be feeling so much guilt from physical contact.

 

It depends on what you mean by literally.

 

I know that they aren't real voices. They aren't external false audio stimuli. They are definitely internal mental dialogs but they are interpretted in my mind as sounds rather like the mind's eye...only it's the mind's...ear. Like when you remember the sound of a trumpet and you can sort of 'hear' the trumpet play, but you're not actually hearing the trumpet play it's just...a memory...

 

It's like that...except...it's not a memory it's an internal dialog....Either way I know it's not external I don't hear the words of God or the devil or demons or angels...I know what it is.

[Rising]

It really seems like you are running through a painful cycle fueled by your strong negative self perception as well as a stubborn hold on the idea that 'this is just how it is' and a sense of powerlessness/inability to change.

 

These voices are likely a symptom of a deeper underlying mental/emotional issue. Cure the symptom and live with the 'disease' or cure the 'disease' and the symptoms may go away.

 

Anyone in a relationship has to be able to trust the person they are with or it won't go anywhere. Your words seem to express a general distrust in people... as though anyone who might try to become friends with you would inevitably abuse your trust and hurt you. Sure, its a chance and it does happen in life, but there are many good and beautiful people out there. This website is proof of that... people extending themselves to total strangers in an effort to provide advice, support and an open ear. And in response to your 'gift debt' comment... most of these people are not asking for anything in return at all. The idea that you have to give a gift just because you received one is socially based (and sometimes culturally) but isn't set in stone. Compliments and gifts are not tools to get something out of someone, though they can be twisted for that purpose.

 

This girl seems to provide you with a person you can focus your attention on to avoid having to look inward, but at the same time simply be being with her you are forced to see yourself through her eyes (and by being part of a relationship). It's bound to create tension for you in either situation. A rock and a hard place kinda deal.

 

Breaking the relationship down to simple, biological sex is a surefire way to remove the emotional element. Procreation is not manipulation. It's a necessary part of the continuance of the human race but as you know Im sure, there are plenty of reasons to have sex, or to do anything with any varying level of intimacy with a partner. For a lot of people sex is primarily about creating a close emotional connection with another person... and while it sounds pretty lame to put it that way it works that way for a lot of people.

 

You say that everything you do in your life is selfish... but I think that's because you frame in that context and don't allow yourself the option of doing it for a different reason. Charity for the sake of charity. Not so that it has to somehow come back around and serve you in the end... but for the true purpose of giving without wanting/expecting anything in return. The laziness may be due to fear and depression, but may also serve as a rationale for not having to exert effort to make change.

 

Things are the way they are because of decisions you've made in your life that have led to more decisions and so and so forth. When things go bad we can either accept it, learn from it and move forward, or we can get held up and relive those mistakes again and again. This also means that things can be totally different the moment you adjust your thinking. As long as you are set in one view of the world and how it works then theres no room for possible differences. If you accept that there may be other ways to look at it, or that theres room for change in who you are, then you would be surprised at the possibilities.

 

K, so I'm really not trying to turn this into some sort of preach or assume I've got the answers... I'm just hoping that maybe something I say rings true enough that you might find a way to feel better about yourself and the lady you are with. Letting her care about you and finding that you could care about her without these negative thoughts could be really rewarding and provide relief for you. With all of these thoughts running through your head all of the time I can imagine life seeming very dark and stressful. Allowing for the possibility that people have good in them and don't want to hurt or manipulate (but sometimes can unknowingly) can sort of set you free.

 

You said the last couple of girls thought you were impossible... and maybe you were... maybe as long as you maintain these immovable ideas of how you are, how others are, and how the world is, you'll be impossible. You don't have to be an 'emotional sinkhole'. All you have to do is be open to the idea that a girl could like you for who you are and that it would be okay for you to invest your feelings in her.

 

That's just my 35 cents. I'm not sure how old you are but I kinda wish I could go have a beer with you and talk about all this stuff. I really wish the best for you and hope you figure out a way to be happy in your relationships in the future.

 

-Rising

[amethyst exchange]

 

 

 

This girl seems to provide you with a person you can focus your attention on to avoid having to look inward, but at the same time simply be being with her you are forced to see yourself through her eyes (and by being part of a relationship). It's bound to create tension for you in either situation. A rock and a hard place kinda deal.

 

If she didn't care about me, it would help. I really wish she just didn't care. I really don't want her to care. I just want her to give up and let me go.

 

Breaking the relationship down to simple, biological sex is a surefire way to remove the emotional element. Procreation is not manipulation. It's a necessary part of the continuance of the human race but as you know Im sure, there are plenty of reasons to have sex, or to do anything with any varying level of intimacy with a partner. For a lot of people sex is primarily about creating a close emotional connection with another person... and while it sounds pretty lame to put it that way it works that way for a lot of people.

 

I don't want an emotional connection, I don't want to feel good. It hurts, you know. Even if it did feel good...I couldn't enjoy it. There's no point in trying to make me happy, so I don't see why she's wasting her time.

 

 

Things are the way they are because of decisions you've made in your life that have led to more decisions and so and so forth. When things go bad we can either accept it, learn from it and move forward, or we can get held up and relive those mistakes again and again. This also means that things can be totally different the moment you adjust your thinking. As long as you are set in one view of the world and how it works then theres no room for possible differences. If you accept that there may be other ways to look at it, or that theres room for change in who you are, then you would be surprised at the possibilities.

 

I know I've made stupid choices. I know why I'm worthless. Nothing's ever going to change that because I'm stuck, and I'm trapped and I'm too tired to fight back anymore.

 

 

You said the last couple of girls thought you were impossible... and maybe you were... maybe as long as you maintain these immovable ideas of how you are, how others are, and how the world is, you'll be impossible. You don't have to be an 'emotional sinkhole'. All you have to do is be open to the idea that a girl could like you for who you are and that it would be okay for you to invest your feelings in her.

 

I don't like me for who I am. Who else would? I don't even know who I am anymore. It's whatever mask I'm wearing. Oh I'm with the gf today, then I'm fine, I'm always fine...I'm with the boss, I'm happy to be there...I'm with my parents then I'm everything they want me to be...

[amethyst exchange]

She called me this morning and since it was our days off, she wanted to know if I wanted to go to the lake with her (we live rather near the a lake). I said yes, but...I already feel sick inside.

 

She'll be here pretty soon....

[amethyst exchange]

Right, so she came over and we did go to the lake...We sat at the beach and everything was good and she looked at me and asked me what was wrong.

 

And I said, nothing was wrong that I was fine. Then she asked me if I liked her still and if I found her attractive. And when I said yes she said 'then why won't you touch me?'.

 

I didn't know what to say. So I didn't say anything. Then she just kind of talked to me. Saying things like, 'if there's something wrong with me just tell me' and 'I just want you to tell me what's wrong' and 'I'm worried about you' and 'you used to be so nice' and happy.

 

I just I don't know, got angry. And I just told her it was my fault, nothing was her fault so she could just stop being so nosy about it. It was my problem, not hers. I don't when she started to cry but it must have been after I got all shouty. I apologized and i hugged her, and it hurt but I didn't let go...

 

But after we got back home, I beat myself up. God I feel worthless...

[amethyst exchange]

Maybe you're right and you should break up with this woman if you're going to yell at her when she opens up or tries to get close. I think you should see a therapist about this and spare her.

 

I wasn't even mad at her though....I was mad because I didn't have the answers she wanted. I just wish she wouldn't focus on my feelings so much.

 

She blames herself for the way I feel, like it's her fault. That's what she says to me. She thinks it's her that's the problem. Then she gets all down on herself and how if she was a better gf then I'd be happy...or she thinks I don't like her or I'm not attracted to her. It isn't like that.

 

And maybe you're right....

 

That is why I was alone in the first place, why I wasn't trying to start a relationship. I'm not good enough for one...I just break people.