boyfriend had a gay experience PART 2!!!

[jon 13]

Why?? He never said homosexuality is wrong. He I don't really need a pity party.

 

nor do i. but when i'm getting insulted, i will stand up for myself

[Daddy Bear]

reread his posts, he implys that homosexuals try to convert heteros, and that we choose to be gay

 

I'm not sure you've read my posts, Jon. You certainly haven't understood them. What I said about 'recruitment' was that I've heard bragging about converting straights in conversations with gay friends. I also said I didn't see a damn thing wrong with that, as long as no legal lines were crossed by adults preying on minors. What I DO disapprove of, as I also mentioned, is people attempting to 'cure' gays using religion and sinister mind control techniques as tools to try to brainwash and guilt them into thinking they need to be straight. In my opinion, that kind of mental manipulation should be made illegal.

 

And a lot of gays agree with me that it's a choice and not something they were forced into by birth. Did you bother to click on the link I posted? Perhaps you might give it a look; it's a website by and for people who willfully choose to be gay and are proud of it.

 

Maybe you believe that the theory you've latched on to, if one day proven true, will promote acceptance of homosexuality among those who think there's something wrong with being that way. Let me disabuse you of that notion right now: as I remarked to someone recently, bigots are bigots and if they think there's a 'gay gene' they'll only ignorantly dismiss it as a birth defect. My own feeling is that everyone should be free to follow whatever harmless path they think is right for them and not have to apologize for it or explain it away by claiming that it's something they have no control over. Understand now?

[greywolf]

The point I'm trying to make is, why are we always trying to prove that we were born this way?

Insisting that we are born this way makes us sound like we are not ok with who we are. It makes us sound like we think it's wrong, but it's not something we can help because we were born that way.

 

In fact, I hate thinking that the way I am can never be changed because I was born a certain way. I have always believed that everything you do in life is a choice. So I cannot comfortably say to myself that I was born a certain way and thereforee I cannot change. However, I cannot comfortably say that I chose to be bi either. And that's because I think most women are born bi. You would not believe how many bicurious girls there are out there, and I just think that if someone is entirely straight then they wouldn't be so curious.

 

I am proud of who I am. It doesn't matter to me if I chose it, if I was born this way, or if I was indeed dropped on the head as a child. hahahahah. Because I like myself. I like being who I am, and that's enough for me.

 

I do not believe Daddy Bear said anything offensive. He has a different opinion on why gays are the way they are, but he has never condemned us.

[jon 13]

whatever, choose to close your eyes to what you puked up

 

"Maybe you believe that the theory you've latched on to" for one i never said anything about a bs theory, i think the "gay gene" is bs also, but saying that we choose to side with our same gender is just bs.

 

"My own feeling is that everyone should be free to follow whatever harmless path they think is right for them" I'll kind of agree with you there, but you simply do not choose who you fall in love with.

[Daddy Bear]

for one i never said anything about a bs theory

 

Actually, when you angrily defended the unproven notion that sexuality is somehow predetermined, you did espouse a theory... although I'm not so rude as to call it BS.

 

saying that we choose to side with our same gender is just bs.

 

You're still not comprehending my position. I've never said nor thought that it's a wholly conscious decision like what to have for dinner. I'm simply accepting the consensus of unbiased research, which indicates that environmental influences (i.e., our experiences), some perhaps dating farther back in childhood than we can remember, are at the very least the predominant factor in determining which gender (if any) we prefer as our sexual companions. There's absolutely nothing anti-gay about it.

 

"My own feeling is that everyone should be free to follow whatever harmless path they think is right for them" I'll kind of agree with you there, but you simply do not choose who you fall in love with.

 

True that, but like lukeb you're 'moving the goalposts' by skewing the topic. Whether this is by design or by accident I can't be sure, but I'm not fool enough to bite.

 

I wonder how many following this thread can appreciate the bitter irony at hand. I've not spoken a single unkind word against your beliefs; you call mine, which are shared by many gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals, "puke" and declare that I'm unworthy of any respect for having articulated them. Who's insulting whom here, Jon? Think about it; which of us is displaying the very kind of intolerance that gays and other minority groups have been struggling against all down through history?

[jon 13]

"True that, but like lukeb you're 'moving the goalposts' by skewing the topic. Whether this is by design or by accident I can't be sure"

this is exactly what you're doing.

[Daddy Bear]

"True that, but like lukeb you're 'moving the goalposts' by skewing the topic. Whether this is by design or by accident I can't be sure"

this is exactly what you're doing.

 

Okay, you got me. I'm not trying to assuage the OP's fears by consistently asserting with everything but a bleeding PowerPoint presentation that sexuality is something other than hard-wired; I'm jumping around like a leprechaun on crack and doing whatever I can to change the subject because I can't hold up against the incredible onslaught of your withering logic. Touché, d'Artagnan, touché.

 

Just out of curiosity, are you conceding all of the points that you're quietly and conveniently dropping as we go along?

[lukeb]

The point I'm trying to make is, why are we always trying to prove that we were born this way?

 

I would never try to prove that I was born this way anymore than most hetero`s would. They dont bother so why should I?

 

I am just saying it wouldn`t matter if I conformed to society`s pressures, or peer pressures, or any other pressures and found that girl, got my 2 and 1/8 kid and the white picket fence. It wouldnt change the fact that I am gay. To Daddy Bear, doing these things make a great deal of difference, I am saying it wouldnt change my sexuality anymore than it would change me as a person.

 

 

 

 

I have always believed that everything you do in life is a choice.

 

No agruement there what you do, unless controlled by addictions or whatever, is indeed a choice.

[lukeb]

 

And a lot of gays agree with me that it's a choice and not something they were forced into by birth. Did you bother to click on the link I posted? Perhaps you might give it a look; it's a website by and for people who willfully choose to be gay and are proud of it.

 

 

What is this choice they are talking about? What are you referring to? The choice to have gay sex? The choice to give in to societal, peer, interal pressures and go into a relationship against your sexuality? The choice to embrace their sexuality? What choice?

 

You have to be clear about what you are referring to. Sex and sexuality are not the same thing. Sex is a choice, sexuality isnt.

[chiefoptimizer]

i just wish all the hate would stop...

[lukeb]

True that, but like lukeb you're 'moving the goalposts' by skewing the topic. Whether this is by design or by accident I can't be sure, but I'm not fool enough to bite.

 

 

I am not sure what he means by that

[greywolf]

Sex is a choice, sexuality isnt.

 

 

I understand what you're saying. And I do kind of agree. My beliefs regarding sexuality are not set in stone and I have a lot of thinking/learning to do before I can form an educated opinion on the subject.

But right now I think that everyone has the ability in them to be gay. I think some people can be born purely straight and others purely gay, but I think for many people sexuality is more fluid.

So if sexuality is fluid, then yes sexuality isn't a choice. However I think that many lesbians (I'm not gonna say anything about gay men because I feel I don't know enough about them to form an opinion) are women who were comfortable exploring the other side of their sexuality and finding out they liked it much better than being with men.

And that's why I don't even like using the terms straight, bi, lesbian, or gay, because I think sexuality can't be defined in such a way.

Different people like different types of music. I like rock music but no one calls me a rockite. I have a friend that likes classical music, but no one calls her a classicalian. It's because we don't feel a need to define people by their tastes in music. So why do we need to define people by their sexuality?

 

Some people may argue that it's because we are born with our sexuality while music is another matter. But I see it this way, no matter how much I listen to rap music, I can't stand it and I think I'm never going to like it. And people accept that I have a different taste in music from them but they don't consider me different. I am still 'me.'

 

All these labels that we have are just a way to set us apart from everybody else, when in fact we are all the same. We are all sexual beings with different preferences. That's what I think.

[lukeb]

I have to concede although it certainly isnt my experience, that it is possible that a person might not be aware of their sexuality even in their adulthood. If they tell me that this is their experience I have to believe them. At some point in their lives they might explore this side of themselves and discover that they actually prefer sexually people of their own gender. That this is something they did not know before. I will have to say that this is very different from my experience, but what do I know of someone else's experience.

 

I still believe however, that their sexuality never changed, if this is the case, they simply did not know that part of themselves. This weekend I had this discussion with someone who came out much later in life. He told me that because he never had an interest in women as a teen and young man, he simple believed that he was asexual, and decided to become a priest. It wasnt until seminary school that he discovered that he preferred men when he became sexually involved with another student. Was he gay as a teen and simply did not know that part of himself? Does that mean his sexuality changed because of this discovery?

 

Australia was there before it was discovered. We did not know that before the discovery, but it was still there, nothing really changed.