boyfriend had a gay experience PART 2!!!

[crosstownTraffic]

Well, I don't know what to say, it was obvious the guy seduced him and he was so young, as to not to be aware of that.

 

The sex was not forced on him, he performed sex on the guy.. and that is why you are worried no doubt. How do you know that Muslims are aware of bisexuality poster?

 

This is a very strict religion...I suggest you get counselling, or maybe your bf does, but I don't really have any advice to give to you. I'm sorry.

[Daddy Bear]

The fact that he had a gay experience in of itself isnt a red flag indication. The fact that he believes that he chooses not to be gay is. It would seem to indicate that he has some homosexual desires, that as long as he doesnt give in to he will be OK. He is most likely bisexual.

 

I can't make any sense of this. ALL heterosexuals choose not to be gay. If you're trying to say that a person has no control over his or her choice of sexuality, it is a premise I vehemently reject. I've seen people switch in both directions. There is no smoking gun in the phraseology used by OP's boyfriend.

 

In anticipation of your rebuttal, I will add that there is no basis in fact for the 'gay gene' theory. Researchers have tried at length to find one and have come up empty-handed at every turn. My belief is that the reason forced conversions such as are inflicted upon gay teens at religious 'rescue' camps are unsuccessful is that the subjects are happier with what they themselves chose to be, not that they are at the mercy of any supposed genetic 'hard-wiring' that renders them virtual sexual automatons. I realize that this is a controversial topic, but mine is the view that scientific data supports.

[Daddy Bear]

I'm sorry to see that in this day and age some people even believe that is possible.

 

Oh, please. As I said before, I witnessed first-hand this topic being discussed on many an occasion. My own best friend, in fact, was fond of the saying, "Anybody can be had." So don't hand me that pious 'no gay person would ever dream of trying to influence a heterosexual' tripe; I know far better than to swallow that.

[lukeb]

I have no interest in getting into the whole gene theory, or scientific evidence here and there. Perhaps mom dropped me on my head when I was a baby. I really dont care one way or another. I know I am gay for whatever reason, it is part of my being. It doesnt have anything to do with what I choose to do. I doubt if we will get anywhere if you believe homosexuality is something you DO and not something you ARE.

[Daddy Bear]

Daddy bear, I would be singing the same tune: 50 yo men or women shouldn't be having sex with 15 yo boys or girls.

I didn't mean to imply that you would think it was acceptable. My sincere apologies to you for that misunderstanding. I meant to suggest only that in my mirror scenario you mightn't be protesting quite so adamantly that the boy being preyed upon was probably bi or straight to begin with.

[lukeb]

Quote:

 

lukeb: "Daddy Bear, I would be singing the same tune: 50 yo men or women shouldn't be having sex with 15 yo boys or girls.

 

Daddy Bear: I didn't mean to imply that you would think it was acceptable. My sincere apologies to you for that misunderstanding. I meant to suggest only that in my mirror scenario you mightn't be protesting quite so adamantly that the boy being preyed upon was probably bi or straight to begin with."

 

 

Lalalalalalalalala, Im still singing the same tune

[Daddy Bear]

I have no interest in getting into the whole gene theory, or scientific evidence here and there. Perhaps mom dropped me on my head when I was a baby. I really dont care one way or another. I know I am gay for whatever reason, it is part of my being. It doesnt have anything to do with what I choose to do. I doubt if we will get anywhere if you believe homosexuality is something you DO and not something you ARE.

 

There's no reason to get sarcastic with me. You broached the subject by claiming that the man's words showed that he was "most likely bisexual." If you can't handle being disagreed with, don't post.

[unabashed]

I'm sorry, Lynn, but I must respectfully disagree with the second half of this definition and with your follow-up assertion that "[t]his "conversion" idea only serves to perpetuate extremely damaging stereotypes." My best friend was a gay man; I spent enough time in his West Hollywood social circles to know that (adult) conversion is a frequent topic of conversation there, spoken of with no small measure of pride and glee. Personally, I never found anything morally objectionable in that and don't see why anyone should.

 

I wasn't addressing the notion of an adult finding pride in "converting" another adult into being gay. I haven't been exposed to the type of culture you describe in West Hollywood, so I can't speak to that. It's not something I've ever seen, personally. Although...my ex-husband felt some pride in converting me back to straight, but, it didn't stick. From my firsthand experience as a gay person, I would find it very difficult to believe that someone could be converted unless they were predisposed, for some reason or another, to being open to the idea. I think there are a wide variety of reasons that someone comes to the conclusion that they are gay or bi. I don't happen to believe that being gay is always a choice, in terms of how someone feels and who they are, inside. It is always a choice, I guess, whether or not they want to live in a way that's true to themselves. Plenty of people choose other priorities due to religious or other reasons, and those are legitimate choices too.

 

In this particular situation, I was talking about the idea of an older person and a child. Healthy adults do not, in my opinion, desire sex with chldren. When they do, they are pedophiles not converters to the ranks, regardless of their own (dysfunctional and sick) motivation.

 

My aim in the comment you quoted, however, was not in any way to paint all homosexuals as recruiters for the cause, just to help one particular ENA member who had invoked the ugly taint of bigotry to look inward and hopefully see that the only participant in this discussion who appeared to be wearing those unfortunate blinders was himself.

 

I agree. I think in this situation both the OP and her boyfriend need to communicate more about this issue before they make any further commitments together. Regardless of her preconceived notions, he may indeed need to work out some things before he is able to be ready to move forward with her.

[Daddy Bear]

Quote:

 

lukeb: "Daddy Bear, I would be singing the same tune: 50 yo men or women shouldn't be having sex with 15 yo boys or girls.

 

Daddy Bear: I didn't mean to imply that you would think it was acceptable. My sincere apologies to you for that misunderstanding. I meant to suggest only that in my mirror scenario you mightn't be protesting quite so adamantly that the boy being preyed upon was probably bi or straight to begin with."

 

 

Lalalalalalalalala, Im still singing the same tune

Please clarify in coherent language. Is it your assertion or not that a teen who identifies himself as gay necessarily forfeits the right to that classification if he's talked into a single encounter with a sexually aggressive older woman?

[Daddy Bear]

In this particular situation, I was talking about the idea of an older person and a child. Healthy adults do not, in my opinion, desire sex with chldren. When they do, they are pedophiles not converters to the ranks, regardless of their own (dysfunctional and sick) motivation.

 

I don't wish to unjustly entangle homosexuality and pedophilia! One is a harmless right and the other is a heinous crime. Gays are no less people of conscience than straights and I don't believe that either group is more inclined to deviant or predatory behavior. With that said, I still don't find it outside the realm of possibility that a 50-year-old man can foist his stronger will upon an impressionable and admiring teen with no homosexual proclivities to speak of and get that boy to do his bidding. Rather, it seems clear that this is the dynamic at play in the incident under scrutiny, and I would maintain that it was pedophilia (evil) and recruitment (benign) both. To take a contrary position on the latter would be to argue that the man believed the child to be already gay, which is not supported by anecdote. Academic, perhaps, but that point does speak to the overall question at hand.

[lukeb]

Please clarify in coherent language. Is it your assertion or not that a teen who identifies himself as gay necessarily forfeits the right to that classification if he's talked into a single encounter with a sexually aggressive older woman?

 

 

My assertion is the sexual encounter by itself doesnt mean that much. He was a teen and perhaps experimenting. It was something he did, and I believe your sexuality isnt determined by what you do. If it was something you do forexample it would be impossible to be a virgin and gay, which I believe is entirely possible. I wasnt being sarcastic in a previous post, I can handle you disagreeing with me. I just wanted to be clear where we disagree. When it comes right down to it you believe our sexuality is determened by the things we do. I believe sexuality is part of your being regardless of what we do. It is that difference in opinion that basically makes it impossible to reach any common ground.

[Daddy Bear]

Whatever, man. Freud and I believe that we're all born in essense bisexual, with the capability of going whatever way we're drawn. I've backed up my position regarding OP's concern with logic and facts; you're welcome to reject all of it as you like. No skin off my nose, to be sure.

 

And yeah, "Perhaps mom dropped me on my head when I was a baby" is classic snippy sarcasm... unless, of course, you think that it's an actual possibility.

[lukeb]

I just wanted to be clear where we disagree. When it comes right down to it you believe our sexuality is determened by the things we do. I believe sexuality is part of your being regardless of what we do. It is that difference in opinion that basically makes it impossible to reach any common ground.

 

 

not whatever, do you agree?

[Daddy Bear]

I've addressed that at length, lukeb. I'm not going to repeat myself simply to further a debate to which my opponent hasn't brought a single supporting fact.

[lukeb]

I've addressed that at length, lukeb. I'm not going to repeat myself simply to further a debate to which my opponent hasn't brought a single supporting fact.

 

I wasnt actually looking for a lengthy answer a simple yes or no would have been sufficient.

 

Homophobes who are bisexual or gay take great comfort in the belief that even though they desire sex with the same gender, they are not gay/bi because they haven't had any gay sex. They believe that sexuality is determined by what you DO. So this is not a small point. It would seem that you share that belief, and I have read everything that you wrote.

 

It is a lot easier to discriminate based on the belief that sexuality is something that you do, and thereforeee something that you choose.

[Daddy Bear]

For the very last time, I answered that question clearly and succinctly. And for insulting me by implying that I'm homophobic because I happen to believe that people have the free will to live in whatever manner suits their fancy, I'm putting you on my heretofore empty Ignore list forthwith and won't be seeing any more of your posts.

[lukeb]

Did you answer it clearly or succinctly with a yes or a no? I didnt mean to imply that you were homophobic, sorry.

[jon 13]

you sir have lost all of my respect.

[Daddy Bear]

Why are we so afraid to say we chose it? It's so scary to take that chance and say, "I am choosing it. It's really what I want to do. It's not because my DNA is making me. DNA be damned, I think I'll be a lesbian."

—JoAnn Loulan,

Lesbian Passion: Loving Ourselves and Each Other

 

link removed

 

you sir have lost all of my respect.

 

Sorry to hear it.

 

Bear out.

[lukeb]

Daddy Bear, did you ignore me?

[lukeb]

I am going to miss agrueing with him, he was fun, dead wrong, but still fun.

[greywolf]

hmmm... is it choice or are we born with it?? Honestly, I don't have the answer.

Sometimes I wish that glbt's wouldn't try so hard to point out that they were born that way because it makes us sound like there's something wrong with us. It makes us sound like we are not ok with who we are so we're always trying to find proof that we're born this way. But honestly, why do we care so much?

Why can't we just accept who we are. Heteros never worry about whether they were born that way or if it was a choice. Why should we?

If I indeed chose to be bi, then why not?? There's nothing wrong with being bi. And if I was born this way, well that's fine too.

 

 

All girls are a couple drinks away from being bi, eh??

 

Sorry.... bad joke....

[greywolf]

Why are we so afraid to say we chose it? It's so scary to take that chance and say, "I am choosing it. It's really what I want to do. It's not because my DNA is making me. DNA be damned, I think I'll be a lesbian."

—JoAnn Loulan,

Lesbian Passion: Loving Ourselves and Each Other

 

link removed

 

 

wow great site daddy bear. thanks.

[greywolf]

you sir have lost all of my respect.

 

Why?? He never said homosexuality is wrong. He just has a different opinion on why a person could be one. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally I prefer this viewpoint in people rather than the people that say, "Don't worry. I know you can't help it. You were born that way. I understand."

Was I born handicapped or something???? I don't really need a pity party.

[jon 13]

Why?? He never said homosexuality is wrong. He just has a different opinion on why a person could be one. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally I prefer this viewpoint in people rather than the people that say, "Don't worry. I know you can't help it. You were born that way. I understand."

Was I born handicapped or something???? I don't really need a pity party.

 

reread his posts, he implys that homosexuals try to convert heteros, and that we choose to be gay