amber81 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Hi everyone, i understand many of your points of view and i thank you very much for your opinions.... I want make things clear.... First of all please, dont think that i dont understand my boyfriend and that i blame him for what happened to him... I dont.... Cause i also was victim of sexual abuse by my own grand father... I told him this big secret, our trust grew up 100% and he told me what happened to him....... Now.... I dont blame him, i dont think he is guilty... I only have doubts and i dont understand many things...... He was around 15 (maybe younger) when this happened... He was seduced by a 50 year old guy.... He met him, he acted as his friend, invited him to eat, buy him stuff, cool things, then he invites him to his appartment... Acting just like friends... Then he started undressing and saying make your self comfortable, etc ect... He started touching him, and things were happening... Until my boyfriend, ended up * * * * ing (penetrating) the other guy..... So, this is what i dont get... I dont picture my self at age 15 having sex with another woman... I was already old enough to know if i like women or men..... But that is just me, not him.. I dont know how man think, specially at this age..... He says the guy did not force him at all, and he actually enjoyed it at the time was happening.... But he was feeling weard.....then when he left he was regreating and feeling disgusted.... Like cheated on... You know..... I understand this is abuse, cause he manipulated my boyfriend and he was much older than him.... I feel very bad for what happened to him, i have never blamed him, i suffer alot more because he is suffering... But its just that my mind still doesnt understand how could this had happened..... I just picture the story, and i think that if he was not gay or sexuly confused at this time, at the time the guy started to touch him, why didnt he left..... He went all the way..... I know he was very naive, and he admits it.... I know when you are afraid you cant say no.. I know it!!! .... Its just, very hard to understand for me.... Thats all...... And for what happened to me, it is very hard to trust in men... In everyway.... So when i knew this... I was understanding him,... But also a second thought of him being gay entered my head... I was just thinking about the posibility.. What if he is gay?? A gay in the closet that doesnt accepts him self.... I know many people like this, many friends... And i am so scared, and afraid that this could be happening to me.... I have nothing against gays... I have many gay friends, i was actually in love with one, i by accident had sex with another gay friend... Well... You know... I say all this so you get the picture that i am not a bad person, i am not a heartless insensitive person... I am just terrified cuase i dont wanna loose my boyfriend, i wanna get marry with him, and i want it to be a real relationship... I dont want a fake marriage.... I dont want him to be a silent gay, trapped in a straight life... That's all..... I dont blame him, i love him with all my heart.... And what makes me doubt about his sex orientation, is that he is a muslim.... And a muslim can not be gay... They go straight to hell... So my fear is that maybe he doesnt recognice him self as a gay, because of the religion.... If he was not that religious, not afreaid of god, and all that.... I would be more certain about what he really is and what god wants... But he does everything that god wants before what he wants.... So this is why i have the big doubt...... As i told you, i dont think or feel he is gay... I am just afraid........very afraid..... All i am asking is for help, help me to understand what happened...... Please, dont judge me... Help me to go trought this.... Help me i need help... Thats all..... I hope you can now understand me a little more..... Thank you amber.... Link to comment
agent1607307371 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Your boyfriend was groomed and raped by a paedophile. Link to comment
lukeb Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Man or woman, straight or gay, it is a pretty clear cut case of statutory rape. Honestly personally I dont see a difference if it was a 50 yo woman and a 15 yo boy. Anybody that does see a difference in my book is a bigot. Link to comment
chasey Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I totally agree with agent and lukeb. Link to comment
lukeb Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 To answer your other question, I did say age makes a difference and 15 years old is pretty young. I think experimentation is normal, I guess I just wished that your boyfriend didn't see the need to defend himself. Maybe he somehow senses your doubts and feels the need to defend himself. If he truly is straight, he shouldn't have to, but we dont live in a perfect world. Link to comment
unabashed Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I hear that what you're worried about is that maybe, in fact, he might be gay, but due to his religion and his previous experience of being abused, he might not be able to accept that in himself right now. You sound like you are worried about ultimately marrying someone you love and then having it end when/if he ends up reaching the conclusion that he is gay. This would break your heart. Do I understand you correctly? It takes some people years or even their whole lives to accept that they are gay. Some people never really know because it just isn't an option in their religious group or family. If your boyfriend has expressed that he is confused by this experience, you might suggest that he talk to someone who can help him sort through all of his conflicting feelings. He has a lot to deal with (as you well know from your own experiences). You can't predict the outcome of his talking to someone, but it will help him move in the direction of understanding himself better. With that, he will be able to identify what he really wants and he'll be able to express that to you. I would just say that, while so many things are in question for you, avoid making any long-term commitments (like marriage). Keep listening to yourself and make sure you are getting what you need, too. All the best, L. Link to comment
amber81 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 yes you are right!! that is my main concern.... and the good or bad news is we are getting engaged soon, in a cople of months...... and maybe getting married soon too..... before i knew this, i never had a doubt, i know he likese girls, our sex life is pretty active, and he likes it a lot.... he is not selfish, he takes good care of me in everyway.... i love him and i know he loves me.... you are right! my only fear is that he is maybe denying that he is not gay, cause he doesnt want to or cant be gay.. but that maybe he is.... this is all my worry.... i am not sure that he is sure that he is not gay..... and the main reason is the religion... i think the religion could be a very powerful factor to resign to his desire and focus on what god wants.... it is not that he is liying to me, maybe he is even lying to himself, i acutally think he doesnt give himself the oportunity to deside if he wants or not to be gay... he JUST CANT!!! he criticizes the gays saying why are they gays?? I CHOSE NOT TO BE GAY!!! you chose???? so you were????? he said no, i never was... i said, then you cant choose not to be something that you never were..... I think a gay is just gay, wether he wants it or not.... even if a gay performs a straight life, they are still gay inside... and this is what i dont want....... you know what I'm saying? Link to comment
jon 13 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 this part has me worried "I CHOSE NOT TO BE GAY!!!" Link to comment
CarnelianButterfly Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I honestly doubt he is gay, he sounds like he had a tumultuous event in his life and is still not yet come to terms with it in entirety. I think it would be a good thing for you both to see a counselor together and if need be separately. I think you both need to work on the issues you seem to have with this. It would be good for you both to resolve these issues before marriage, a set of problems with doubts of this magnitude could be very detrimental to a long term relationship. Link to comment
agent1607307371 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 You said in the other post that your sex life was good. I doubt that if he was gay it would be. Link to comment
lukeb Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It could also be a cultural thing, it is possible he doesnt quite understand the subtletes of sexuality. You said he is muslim. As long as he doesn't commit the sin, he might feel he isn't gay. I think you understand that isn't exactly true, but it might be very difficult to get that point accross. It is possible he takes great comfort in believing as long as he doesnt do gay things he isnt gay. If this is the case it is best to simply accept that this is part of who he is, and there is much more to him, and not to press the issue any further. I wish you well. Link to comment
Gracelove Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Until my boyfriend, ended up * * * * ing (penetrating) the other guy..... He says the guy did not force him at all, and he actually enjoyed it at the time was happening.... But he was feeling weard.....then when he left he was regreating and feeling disgusted.... Like cheated on... Now this, I wouldn't call rape. Your boyfriend penetrated him, not the other way around. And he was enjoying himself, while he was doing it, then he regretted it afterwards. That just sounds like a bad sexual experience to me. It doesn't sound like sex was forced upon him, which is what rape is. Rape is when someone violates you sexually, without consent. They either drug you and rape you, or physically restrain you and rape you, etc. But, if you do it willingly, then change your mind.....I don't think that's considered rape, just regret. Link to comment
CarnelianButterfly Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Now this, I wouldn't call rape. Your boyfriend penetrated him, not the other way around. And he was enjoying himself, while he was doing it, then he regretted it afterwards. That just sounds like a bad sexual experience to me. It doesn't sound like sex was forced upon him, which is what rape is. Rape is when someone violates you sexually, without consent. They either drug you and rape you, or physically restrain you and rape you, etc. But, if you do it willingly, then change your mind.....I don't think that's considered rape, just regret. It can be rape because if he was below the age of consent, any sexual involvement with him is rape. By being a minor he can not consent to sex. Link to comment
Gracelove Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It can be rape because if he was below the age of consent, any sexual involvement with him is rape. Opps, I forgot about that part. So ya, then I guess it's technically statutory (sp?) rape. Link to comment
Daddy Bear Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Honestly personally I dont see a difference if it was a 50 yo woman and a 15 yo boy. Anybody that does see a difference in my book is a bigot. Has anyone here said that? No. You're going way off topic to defend a lifestyle choice that no one is disparaging. Furthermore, I wonder how you'd feel if a gay teen was roped into sex with a middle-aged woman who had hopes of making him her straight little sex toy. Why don't I believe that you'd be singing the same tune in a thread about that? amber81, I really don't get the sense that you need worry about your guy 'flipping' on you. Even setting aside the coercion factor, one gay experience as a teen does NOT indicate that a person will be gay as an adult, any more than one hetero encounter in his past means that a man who leads a gay life is secretly straight. I've sampled just about everything that presents itself in this world, even gay sex; and yet, testament to my utter heterosexuality includes the fact that I don't watch gay porn, have never had a homosexual dream and can only be in love with a woman. Oh, and then there are my five grown children (one of whom is gay, which I support enthusiastically - I'm not a bigot!) Link to comment
xioking39 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 You said in the other post that your sex life was good. I doubt that if he was gay it would be. he could be bisexual. i dont see why it has to just be black and white. there are shades of gray. im just sayin..... Link to comment
Daddy Bear Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 he could be bisexual. i dont see why it has to just be black and white. there are shades of gray. im just sayin..... I think everyone here is aware of the phenomenon of bisexuality. The point that shouldn't be lost is that there doesn't seem to be a red-flag indication in any of this that he does now, or will in the future, desire to have sex with anyone but his gf. Link to comment
agent1607307371 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 he could be bisexual. i dont see why it has to just be black and white. there are shades of gray. im just sayin..... I know, and I am them. But frankly, I don't think it's the case here. Link to comment
jon 13 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Now this, I wouldn't call rape. Your boyfriend penetrated him, not the other way around. And he was enjoying himself, while he was doing it, then he regretted it afterwards. That just sounds like a bad sexual experience to me. It doesn't sound like sex was forced upon him, which is what rape is. Rape is when someone violates you sexually, without consent. They either drug you and rape you, or physically restrain you and rape you, etc. But, if you do it willingly, then change your mind.....I don't think that's considered rape, just regret. i have to agree with you there, been thinking the same, just didn't want to say it Link to comment
agent1607307371 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It doesn't sound like sex was forced upon him, which is what rape is. Rape is when someone violates you sexually, without consent. Force does not equal violence. But I don't think this kid was in his right mind to be able to make the choice, also he wasn't old enough to be able to make the informed decision. Was it rape as everyone else is defining it? No. Was it abuse? Most definitely. Link to comment
unabashed Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Has anyone here said that? No. You're going way off topic to defend a lifestyle choice that no one is disparaging. Furthermore, I wonder how you'd feel if a gay teen was roped into sex with a middle-aged woman who had hopes of making him her straight little sex toy. Why don't I believe that you'd be singing the same tune in a thread about that? I appreciate your comments here and elsewhere--but, to clarify one point, a grown man who seeks sex with a child is a pedophile, not a gay person trying to convert another one to the ranks. A female adult who seduces children--boys or girls, is also a pedophile. Gay or not, it is the norm for adults to seek out sexual partners with other adults. This "conversion" idea only serves to perpetuate extremely damaging stereotypes. To add to another point, also, the fact that the boyfriend was aroused enough during the abuse to achieve penetration is extremely common and is part of what serves to fuel his own confusion and guilt (if there is any). What is important is that he ultimately come to understand that the abuse is not his fault. Abusers almost always have been abused, and they almost always blame themselves--so it is easy for them to then blame the child if they become abusive. Help him find someone he can speak to so he can figure it out definitively that the abuse was not his fault. Thank you, Lynn Link to comment
lukeb Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Has anyone here said that? I wonder how you'd feel if a gay teen was roped into sex with a middle-aged woman who had hopes of making him her straight little sex toy. Why don't I believe that you'd be singing the same tune in a thread about that? Daddy bear, I would be singing the same tune: 50 yo men or women shouldn't be having sex with 15 yo boys or girls. Link to comment
Daddy Bear Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 a grown man who seeks sex with a child is a pedophile, not a gay person trying to convert another one to the ranks. I'm sorry, Lynn, but I must respectfully disagree with the second half of this definition and with your follow-up assertion that "[t]his "conversion" idea only serves to perpetuate extremely damaging stereotypes." My best friend was a gay man; I spent enough time in his West Hollywood social circles to know that (adult) conversion is a frequent topic of conversation there, spoken of with no small measure of pride and glee. Personally, I never found anything morally objectionable in that and don't see why anyone should. Now, we can't say with certainty whether the 50-year-old in this case befriended his eventual victim and set about seducing him because of the latter's age or despite it. One thing that is evident from the information we have is that the man had no cause to believe that the boy had any previous homosexual tendencies. That, in my wholly objective opinion, constitutes an attempt at conversion. My aim in the comment you quoted, however, was not in any way to paint all homosexuals as recruiters for the cause, just to help one particular ENA member who had invoked the ugly taint of bigotry to look inward and hopefully see that the only participant in this discussion who appeared to be wearing those unfortunate blinders was himself. Link to comment
lukeb Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I think everyone here is aware of the phenomenon of bisexuality. The point that shouldn't be lost is that there doesn't seem to be a red-flag indication in any of this that he does now, or will in the future, desire to have sex with anyone but his gf. The fact that he had a gay experience in of itself isnt a red flag indication. The fact that he believes that he chooses not to be gay is. It would seem to indicate that he has some homosexual desires, that as long as he doesnt give in to he will be OK. He is most likely bisexual. Link to comment
lukeb Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 That, in my wholly objective opinion, constitutes an attempt at conversion. I'm sorry to see that in this day and age some people even believe that is possible. Link to comment
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