afonselaca Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 We were never married. Our custody papers specify our rights and he has never taken them too serious and certainly never taken the kids overnight until recently. I need help figuring out what he can do to me. He is threatening to take me to court to change the custody arrangement. He said he doesn't want full custody, he wants them to come visit more often than holidays, spring break and summer and wants me to pay all the air fare. Otherwise, he will quit his job because he doesn't understand why he should pay support if he can't see the kids all the time. I'm moving out of state this month. I'm moving after 13 years of feeling stuck here. Finally, I get to go home. I can't wait to get my kids in school and settled. I have the sole right to determine where we live as primary custodian of the children per the papers. I already gave the state my notice of intent to move out of state and the woman thought I was being a bit anal LOL but she noted my file. Can he force me to move back? I don't think so but can't figure out how to google for research purposes since this isn't a divorce situation. Anything you know would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment
annie24 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 wow, he is going to quit his job so that he doesn't have to help pay for his kids? what a winner. ugg! don't worry. talk to a lawyer, the law is on your side. i don't think they can 'forbid' you from moving. he might get summer or something, but only if he has a job and is paying child support! Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Here's the situation in Canada. I never married the father of my children (we were common-law for several years). When we split up, I still got a legal separation agreement specifically to outline child support/custody issues. I have shared custody (not the same as joint....it basically means they live with me, visit him and we discuss medical, education and religious issues). Anyway, my agreement specifically states that neither of us can move more than a certain number of kilometers away from my city, which is something we both agreed on. Unless your agreement has a similar stipulation, you should be okay moving where ever you choose to. I don't think that the fact that it isn't a divorce situation would have any bearing on custody or support issues. If you want to pm your location, I'll see if I can find somewhere that you can get some free legal advice, there's usually something available in most major cities. Also, the fact that you already have sole custody should work in your favour. I'm sure this is a difficult situation for you, but try to see it from his point of view as well. He's panicking because he won't have close access to his children anymore...I'm sure it's difficult for him as well (even if he is being a total jerk by threatening to stop paying support). It's unlikely that he'll actually follow through with his threats to quit his job or change the custody arrangement. Does he have the money to retain a lawyer and fight this battle? My friend was in a similar situation...she wanted to move to another province, but their original agreement stated that she couldn't (she had sole custody). She fought it and it dragged on for 8 (!) years and cost them each close to $20,0000. (she won). Depending on how old your children are, it could drag on until it's no longer an issue. If he does quit his job and stop support payments, he'll have to live with that decision for the rest of his life. Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I do know that judges look unkindly on able bodied people who quit their jobs for no good reason in order to not pay child support. He will still be liable for the support, and will go to jail if he doesn't attempt to get a job and pay support. If you have full legal custody with no provisions set out that prohibit you from leaving the state, he most likely can't stop you. Of course he can always take you to court to try to change this, but most likely if your agreement is fair they won't change it that much. If you do live out of state, they could change it to give him larger blocks of time, less often. So they might give him a month in summer, or every other holiday for a longer period of time (a week etc.). I think most likely this is a bluff on his part to try to intimidate you. Judges do not see child support as him paying for the right to see them (which your ex seems to thing is his right). He pays support to fulfill his financial responsibility to the children, regardless of where they live. So you might take your agreement to a legal aid group to have them review it to tell you if it is OK to move with the kids. You might want to be flexible to make sure the kids do get to see their father every other holiday or for longer blocks of time, to avoid a custody case. Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 Thank you for your great comments! My custody order specifies two sets of visitation rights. One set in the case we live within 100 miles of each other and a second set if we live more that 100 miles apart. It spells out everything to the T. It also has a clause that he cannot consume alcohol within 24 hours of possession or while in possession of the children. It also says I have primary custody and the right to determine where we live but doesn't say anything about me not being able to move away. That said, I just want to make sure that once I move he won't be able to make me move back. Gosh that would suck! He is only freaking out because we won't be here at his convenience anymore. He has a key (well, I got it back tonight LOL) and he comes and goes as he pleases. Whenever I am asked when will daddy come see us I can't honestly answer. He has ignored the court order... until TONIGHT. He arrived to get them for fireworks and announced he was keeping them the entire month of July. O.M.G. That is his right because it is in the orders but he's never ever ever ever taken them overnight until last month (go figure) and I've been fine with it because I know he drinks daily. I have always always always had my boys with me. We are all scheduled for the moving guys on the 20th, and driving out early on the 21st. It is all setup and ready to go. My SO took his vacation time to help me with the driving and now I have to cancel him and drive by myself on the 31st. How unhappy am I?? Oh, WAY not thrilled to drive accross country alone with two boys! I need to make sure I don't do this huge move then somehow have to come back. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 It sounds like your agreement states everything very clearly, so I don't think you need to worry. Even if he decides to try and have changes made, the fact that he drinks on a daily basis will not be in his favour. It might be a good idea to start documenting things, for instance the fact that tonight is the first time he's honoured the agreement. If your boys say anything to you that indicate he's been drinking or behaving badly, document that as well, but don't question your kids, just listen closely to everything they tell you. Even though you got your key back, it might be a wise to get your locks changed, he could have easily made a copy. How old are your boys? If he's never even kept them overnight, I wonder if he'll actually be capable of caring for them for the full month of July. He probably has no idea how difficult it can be. Once he has to start preparing three meals a day, doing the dishes, laundry, entertaining and paying for their day to day needs he might rethink his decision. I have two boys myself...I'm sure it's going to be very hard for you to let them go for a whole month. I don't want to put scary ideas into your head, but do you think there's any possibility that he'd try to take off and disappear with them? Again, I don't know how old your boys are, but if they're young, make sure they know their phone number, address etc. just in case. Good luck with this...what a lousy situation. Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 Yes, lousy. They are 6 and 9. I don't see him taking off with them. He makes less than I do and his job is the type where he can only get hired by one employer in any given city. Pick a city, any city, but only one place to get a job no matter where they go. My job goes with me, that is the huge difference between our careers. The boys are really cool to hang around with now that they are older. You know? He wasn't here changing diapers or dealing with toddlerhood. Heck, he wasn't here all year dealing with our third grader's troubles with schoolwork and trying to teach self motivation skills. You are right. Maybe this will be a good wakeup call for him. He'll get an idea real fast how expensive it is to feed little hungry guys!! I view him as more of an uncle. He comes around when it is convenient on him and takes them to ChuckECheese and then goes on his merry way. He has no idea what it means to actually care for boys. I just worry about who is going to watch them while he is at work. He said his sister but I don't think so because she is already caring for their sick mother. He really has some nerve to expect his sister to do this for him. What a jerk. Thanks. I won't worry because you are right, the order has everything spelled out. He's just pulling this to thwart my plans. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 . He's just pulling this to thwart my plans. That's exactly what he's doing. If he doesn't get tired of it his sister will. I don't think you have anything to worry about and I'll bet they'll be back in time for your move. At any rate, try to put a positive spin on it...at least your kids will get some time with their Dad (however it turns out) and you'll get a rest and some time to get ready for your move, . Good luck and please keep us updated if you can. I'm interested in knowing how many days he lasts taking on some REAL responsibility lol. Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 thanks! You are wonderful! I can't tell you how much of a burden this is on my heart. I appreciate your words so much Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I'm glad it helped! I can totally relate to you...my ex had issues with drinking as well and I used to hate it when he would get to take my boys up to the cottage for a week or two. I'd be on pins and needles the whole time...thankfully he's better now. Try not to worry. He's their Dad and even if he's an ass to you, he'll probably do his best to care for them properly...I just think he'll find it overwhelming though and bring them home early. You might have to use reverse psychology on him.... "I'm getting so much done!" "I'm having such a nice break!" "I need the extra week here at the end of the month anyway to tie up some loose ends!". He'll probably want to mess you up and he'll bring them home early! I know its going to be really hard for you this month, but it's all gonna be okay. Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share Posted July 6, 2008 That's exactly what he's doing. If he doesn't get tired of it his sister will. I don't think you have anything to worry about and I'll bet they'll be back in time for your move. At any rate, try to put a positive spin on it...at least your kids will get some time with their Dad (however it turns out) and you'll get a rest and some time to get ready for your move, . Good luck and please keep us updated if you can. I'm interested in knowing how many days he lasts taking on some REAL responsibility lol. Geez. He brought the boys back at 4pm today which made him over an hour late to work. That tells me whatever he had worked out as far as child care fell through. Or, he never had it completely worked out and was bluffing me. I hope he got a good taste of what it is like to be responsible for someone other than his own self. Yeah, it takes planning. Kids don't just take care of themselves. He didn't even walk them to the door... just dropped them at the curb and took off. Didn't wait to make sure I was home to open the door. Didn't watch them walk inside to make sure they were safe. Maybe I expect too much but that was wrong. I asked them if they enjoyed their visit and why they didn't stay longer. They said they wanted to come home. It was boring because they had to share a laptop and there was nothing else to do except get scratched by a cat. They have their own computers here... are they spoiled or what??? HAHA. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Unbelievable. He was going to keep them for the whole month and he lasted less than two days? Not surprising at all. It still might be a good idea to document things...the fact that he didn't even wait for your 6 & 9 year old kids to get safely in the door is really irresponsible. Imagine if you hadn't been home? If you do end up in a custody battle with him, this will look really bad on him. Sheeesh. Link to comment
BeStrongBeHappy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hahahaha! I knew he'd be dropping them off sooner than a month, but barely made it a long weekend. He was just mad and scratching his mad spot and trying to punish you. He doesn't REALLY want full responsibility for the boys, he just doesn't like the idea that you can move away. I suspect he will be a lot less trouble than you think he will. He grumble about it, but in a year he'll be making excuses as to why he can't take them for longer periods of time. I think the REAL issue with him is he can't pick them up and drop them off in short takes anymore, and he has to take real responsbility for them for longer periods. He just proved that he can barely handle a weekend, and he knows once you move away he can't come and go as he pleases. So I suspect he will do what a lot of absentee fathers do, just taper off and eventually see them rarely at all. Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Yeah, it will probably taper off. That makes me sad just because I never wanted to keep the boys away from him. On the other hand, I can't envision living here for 12 long years waiting for the last HS graduation. I told him that I figure I lived here the first half when I didn't really want to but felt stuck and lonely. Now I get to move home and I hope he can accept I'm living the second half the way I choose. I'm not stuck here anymore! My youngest son told me that I could stay here until he is 18, after that I can do whatever I want and go live wherever I want. Big hug and huge beautiful eyes looking up at me. I said, "Oh? I see. Who said I could do that?" Daddy. He also told them that airplanes crash everyday and they're never going to see him again. No business scaring children! Unbelieveable!! We had to have the whole 9-11 talk about those airplanes crashed on purpose and how commercial airplanes don't crash everyday. They were really scared. I told them they are going to see him again although it is debatable whether or not that is a good thing at this point. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 He also told them that airplanes crash everyday and they're never going to see him again. QUOTE] That is so wrong on so many levels...unbelievable. I was just reading about fear of flying. I'm going to type what it said and you can maybe share whatever parts you feel are appropriate with your boys if you want. There are some really good statistics. It's from a book called Life Without Limits - here goes (I've edited out some parts and mostly just left the stats). I hope it helps...I'd be so furious if I were you](*,) (Document it!) Often when you are afraid of something, you perceive a danger that really isn't valid. Fear of flyiing is a perfect illustration. As you've already heard many times, commercial flights are one of the safest methods of travel available today. Yes, there are accidents, and, when they occur they can be devastating. But they are rare. You are twice as likely to die from a bee sting as you are a commercial airline flight. You are 110 more likely to die on a bicycle. Your chance of death on a ommercial airline flight is 1 in 10 million. A sold-out 747 would have to crash every day of the week for ten years with no survivors to equal the highway deaths per year in this country. You are nineteen times safer traveling by commercial plane than by car. Your chances of dying in a tornado is 1 in 150,000, but your chance of dying in a commercial flight is,again, 1 in 10 million! A commercail aircraft receives twelve hours or maintenance on the ground for every hour it spends in the air. Commercial planes are well equipped with back up systems for virtually every system on the plane. If one fails, the other one will take over. All jets are multiengine. Even three engine planes can be flown on just one engine. Most planes now have duplicate landing gear and retraction systems. You really do have very little to fear when flying commercially. Link to comment
thejigsup Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 He will do what many parents do when the custodial parent moves: disappear. Mine did and many men and women that I know who have moved with their kids say the same thing, they never saw the other parent much after that. If I had to do it again, I don't know that I wouldn't have stayed closer to my ex so that my son had some memories of his father. Now he's twenty and doesn't remember his father. By the way, I have a cousin who works for an airline and he's advised me that with the job and pay cuts lately, don't fly if you don't have to. Link to comment
xrayspex Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Move wherever you want, to hell with him. The courts will not make you move back, they can't. If it doesn't say anything in your decree about not moving away, he can't do a thing about it. Also, if he decided to take you to court to get modifications, it would cost him a fortune and take a long long time to get anything changed, and only IF he can show it's in the kids' best interests. I don't see anything about him that's in their best interests with what you've posted so I say go for it and tell him to go fly a kite. Like someone else said, document everything. Rather than talking with him try to get it through email or something you can prove later. Link to comment
healthseeker Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I think if he quits his job and gets you back into a courtroom....he will look like a total loser to the judge! Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 I spoke with someone regarding my custody order. Here's how it looks. He can have the kids at any time this month since it is his summer visitation right. So, even though this wasn't his weekend per se, he could have had them. If he takes them next weekend and doesn't return them on Sunday the 20th then I cannot leave on the 21st unless I leave without the kids. If he does return them on the 20th and I thereforee have physical possession on the 21st instead of him, then I can leave and won't get into trouble. Whew. My oldest DS called his dad a few times this weekend and left messages asking to come stay the weekend. No return call so he asked me to drive him to daddy's house. I'm not sure what we'll find... so, no baby, I'm sorry but we need to wait for daddy to call back. It breaks my heart that DS was ignored! Exactly what I've been dealing with for years but it hurts so much more watching it happen to DS. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Did he contact you at all after dropping them off early last weekend? Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 Did he contact you at all after dropping them off early last weekend? No. I'm wondering if he disappeared but I just don't want to drive to his place. I don't want to be responsible for him although I am wondering if he is on a drunken downward spiral. OTOH, maybe he has a girlfriend. Who knows? I wish he would be reasonable. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Hopefully you can avoid him until you've made the move. I just hope that he doesn't show up next weekend expecting to take them again and mess up your plans. That stinks that he's ignoring your sons calls...it must break your heart to watch that happen Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 It is heartbreaking to watch them go through the waiting and disappointment. I wish I could fix it. Link to comment
greensleeves Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 My best friends ex husband was a heroin addict. She lived with him in Hawaii and Seattle and finally left and moved back here with her son. I remember every birthday and Christmas she'd buy her son presents, wrap them up and say they were from his Dad because she didn't want him to be hurt. The only positive side to having these things happen in their lives, is that the kids realize the type of adult they don't want to become and work to be better human beings. It's very sad when it's happening though. Link to comment
afonselaca Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 My best friends ex husband was a heroin addict. She lived with him in Hawaii and Seattle and finally left and moved back here with her son. I remember every birthday and Christmas she'd buy her son presents, wrap them up and say they were from his Dad because she didn't want him to be hurt. The only positive side to having these things happen in their lives, is that the kids realize the type of adult they don't want to become and work to be better human beings. It's very sad when it's happening though. Yes, it is very sad. My parents divorced when I was 5 and my mother harbored deep resentment against my dad. She always told me that he didn't love me and that I needed to get that through my head and forget about him. I always waited for the mailman on my birthday, always knew my dad was going to make me into a princess (very big fantasies on my part LOL.) Of course, she was right in the long run. My dad doesn't have a place in his heart for me, I learned it the hard way on my own. But, the big lesson to get out of all of this, for me, is that she had no business talking badly of him. I definitely do not let my boys overhear any converstations with my friends or tell them directly anything that would put their dad in a negative light. I'll never tell them he didn't want them at birth. I never want them to question whether or not they are loveable or loved. I like the idea of sending them gifts. thanks! Link to comment
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