Liars

[Lionel Hutz]

and every one is different. Some are good at it and some insult your intelligence when they expect you to believe the hog wash they are spouting.

What are the indications?

 

I know some say, a girl who will lie to her dad will lie to her boyfriend. Also some say that men who were afraid of their parents will also be dishonest.I read a thread yesterday where someone stated if they kept incorrect change from a cashier, they would excercise other dishonest behviors, such as lying. Is this true? How do you catch a good liar, and how can you see the red flags?

 

Im having an issue with a friend who I think is lying to me, yet I dont have any proof at all. I mean dates have been missed, and his flakyness is starting to bug me, however the reason provided allows me to excuse him. I still feel a hunch though, or that gut feeling. I am labeled as paranoid by 90% of the people I know. I also hate being accused of being dishonest, especially if someone has convicted me of lying without a doubt. So I ask the liars out there what to look for(truthfully please), and those who have exposed them, what did you look for?

[metrogirl]

I guess each situation is different....We probably all lie to some degree about different things. I would never keep the incorrect change from a cashier but I have been known to tell little lies for whatever the reason. Note* Not lies that would cause someone emotional harm. I don't like to hurt or decieve people.

[Lionel Hutz]

Well yeah. Naturally you wont tell your mom you hate her cooking, or that your buddies tattoo sucks. Im wondering what inconsitancies in their behaviors with others. Kinda like the guy who talks trash about everyone around but you, and you know once you leave you're fair game. Ive caught this person screening calls, and not telling the truth to close friends of ours, not all of them, but some. Im wondering if he has the sames respect for me as the pool of people he lies to, or the guys hes honest with. Its almost not worth dealing with his credibility but for some reason I have faith in his word. Really mixed emotions have come up lately though with his maturity and honesty.

[Excalibur]

People lie to gain benefit or avoid consequence - no situational details required.

 

Anybody taking the spare change from the rushed cashier, will lie to you if it benefits them in some way.

 

Values justify actions. IF one's values justify misrepresentation of FACTS in order to benefit - lying, cheating, stealing, killing - it's all within their grasp, if situations allow or demand it for them to get their way.

[Lionel Hutz]

People lie to gain benefit or avoid consequence - no situational details required.

 

Anybody taking the spare change from the rushed cashier, will lie to you if it benefits them in some way.

 

Values justify actions. IF one's values justify misrepresentation of FACTS in order to benefit - lying, cheating, stealing, killing - it's all within their grasp, if situations allow or demand it for them to get their way.

 

However, I can advocate that if I get extra change and kept it, I would not lie to my friend. The morale among someone you don't know as opposed to a friend,s/o, or family member is significantly different. You may care that the drawer may come up short, and they could be penalized for that, but is it really the patrons fault? I can't wander off of my own topic,but intersting logic Excal.

[Mavis VDSande]

I'll admit I'll often tell white lies, from "you look great!", to "don't worry about it, he probably needs space", or "no I really missed your call, and I won't be able to come round tmr as I have a family thing going on" - to people I'm not so close to.

 

People very close to me however, I don't like to lie at all. If I have a problem I'll say, if I can't make dinner because I have work on or I'm skint I'll be honest. If my close friend looks stupid in that badly cut dress I'll say. If I think he's cheating on her or he's an ass I'll say.

 

It depends then on how much I value a friendship I suppose. I could never lie to my family or my bf. If I'm unhappy about our rels I'll say something so we can think of something to do. If I went out and met some amazing guy and had a connection, I'll come home and tell my bf. But I would never cheat on him or lie. The more we trust each other the more valueble our relationship.

 

The same can be said for my friends. In the past I've had flaky friendships and the deciding factor to drop them has always been "how do I feel about this person? - if I don't feel 100% myself around them, if they confuse or puzzle me then maybe we're better off, not so close". Basically for me, life's too short to surround yourself with shaky characters.

 

Also I have some people in my life who are as crooked as a bent-out shape, they seem to mix facts up and muddle everyone, but I brush that aside, I enjoy their company but don't take what they say or do to heart. Like I know where I stand, if they don't then I won't let it get to me.

[Mavis VDSande]

I remember talking to a friend about it - about a work friend who's a bit flaky - he said "I'm a honest straightforward guy, why can't other people be honest and straightforward?" - this person's actions bother him, but not me. I just said to him "it's work related, take it as a pinch of salt, what can you do?".

[Excalibur]

So all you're stating is that if you find the person is not your friend by your new evaluation - you'd easily lie to them.

 

yesterday no - they were your friend...today - not so much.

 

If situations justify your actions then just knowing that whatever situationally you need and the situation will allow i going to dictate what you do - you'll present a very inconsistent in action picture publicly to hose that affiliate iwth you and they'll know that you're not using values to determine your actions, just need and situational option.

[Lionel Hutz]

You are right about different social circles and the degree in which you must be honest. This is one of my few good friends that I feel I can trust, but lately there are doubts. I just wish there was a good indicator without interogating or trick questions ya know.

[Excalibur]

Look at the lifestyles they lead, what they do in regard to and with otehrs in situations in which you have no vested interest, but a good observation point.

 

Nobody's going to do something "with/about/towards/regard/because of/about YOU" that they don't do everywhere else with everybody else.

[Lionel Hutz]

Noted Excal! That makes things a bit more clear. Kinda saddens me but thats how it is.

[ryan123]

Most liars I know wont look you in the eye...I hate that...I think people are really fake that can't look you in the eye while speaking to you. Im a big eye to eye kind of guy. Facials twitches and generally ill be around them a lot and i have an awesome memory and will pick up inconsistencys in stories. Those are the best to have. Because you bring it up and u watch as they backpedal and try and skew the story so its not contradicting...But your no dummy...All theyre doing is demonstrating their lying "tells" while telling blatant lies.

 

For instance my cousin always stutters when he lies and looks to his left downward. I know this because ive caught him in a lie and watched his behavior as he lied to back out of that lie.

[Lionel Hutz]

Depends which end you are on too. When talking yeah eye contact is a must, unless one is speaking of a memory, some unconsciously look up as if they are searching for the memory, memories kind of tip toe around lying/embelishing. When you have flat out yes no answers and there is no eye contact, yes, that can create a problem. Personally I am a lip reading listener, you can tell me a story and I will watch your mouth more than your eyes. Some take me as dishonest or not attentive. Stuttering is a good one. I should study closely how this dude lies, but as ive been thinking about it, if I cant trust him, why care? Its just starting to really piss me off because hes got something I need. Plus weve been friends for a looooooooong friggin time.

[Excalibur]

HEre's the thing about "lying" - it why polograph's aren't recognized in court.

 

Lying is an "intentional" thing. IF someone tells you something they think iis accurate and right and it's not - it's not a lie - it'sa mistake.

 

So lying is based on judging intention. People with an ethical compass that truly believe whatever it takes for them to get what they want is right and their right to do as situational details allow - they can look you in the eye - while they slit your throat - literally.

 

They'd never register on a polygraph with stress about 'intentionally" misleading the interrogator.

[Lionel Hutz]

So in other words (excuse the cliche) When in doubt, throw it out?

[Excalibur]

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

If what they say and do doesn't match up as you evaluate and judge it - most assuredly listen to what they "do" as that has impact, not what they say.

[Lionel Hutz]

You've been really helpful Excal, I appreciate it. What I mean is if I doubt what they say, I could usually be right; and just take it with a grain of salt, in a credible sense. If I don't feel you are telling the 100% truth, I can disregard the whole scenario, since you've pretty much tossed your validity in the trash. Actions DO speak louder than words in this sense also. Reliabilty also comes with being impecable and credible.

[metrogirl]

I like Judge Judy's spin on it.

 

 

"that doesn't make any sense and if it doesn't make any sense, it's usually not true"

[HeartGoesOn]

Go with your gut feeling, it's usually right.

[stranded247]

Ah I have had a simular situation recently and like you I am not 100% sure that my friend is lying but I'm pretty damn sure she is. In fact I know she is, I just cant prove it? Is this your problem too?

However on previous occasions I have managed to catch her out. Firstly she is a rather bad liar and I am one of those people who is very forensic in my questioning so often I can catch her out when she forgets her lies and changes details in her stories. You have to be cunning though, say for example you suspect your friend is lying about their plans to you to avoid seeings (as my friend did), the way I caught her out was to innocently ask her about her week in great detail and make her think I was genuinely interested until she changed her story and then forgot and then I went "wait a minute but you said.." and then the confessions poured out.

This doesn't always work but I can usually tell when someone is lying to me just by their body language and also I am a good liar, so when lying I actually keep my story very blunt with few details-thus making it easier to remember so I won't faulter. Liars will often subtly change the subject too once they have lied. And if you accuse a good liar of lying they will try to act really calm to seem like they are not lying. But their calmness can often be over emphasised making it seem unatural I find.

God I just read that, its a weird bunch of advice but yeah thats just my two cents.

[Mavis VDSande]

I'm curious to know what it is you need from this friend that you can't sort out yourself. Also friendships, however close, sometimes deteriote, it happens. For me I take the "if I'm not 100% sure of what you're saying then I disregard all that you say" approach. Whatever, pinch of salt. After all, I make sure that I am honest to myself and reliable myself, I know it's hurtful to have these feelings from a friend, but then... stay strong to what you value and don't let anyone mess you about.

[NowandZen]

As far as the character issue, that is, if you lie about one thing, you will lie about another:

 

There are different types of liars:

 

The pathological liar just can't help it. He will lie for any reason or no reason, even if it doesn't benefit him. This liar will lie about lies he told.

 

The habitual liar is not as bad as the pathological liar, but usually does it to tell a good story or make himself out better (or not as bad) as he is.

 

The avoid trouble liar will only lie when the lie will keep him from avoiding an adverse condition.

 

The gain liar generally lies when there is personal benefit from the lie, otherwise will not lie because he knows how hard it is to keep straight.

 

So in trying to determine the truth, I observe someone to see what kind of liar they are, and apply it to the situation.

[Lionel Hutz]

I'm curious to know what it is you need from this friend that you can't sort out yourself. Also friendships, however close, sometimes deteriote, it happens. For me I take the "if I'm not 100% sure of what you're saying then I disregard all that you say" approach. Whatever, pinch of salt. After all, I make sure that I am honest to myself and reliable myself, I know it's hurtful to have these feelings from a friend, but then... stay strong to what you value and don't let anyone mess you about.

 

Hes got some Photoshop/ Illustrator files and some PDFs of some graphics that I did a few years ago. I need them back since my hardrive crashed last year wiping out everything I had. I was stupid and did not have everything backed up. He has copies, but Im starting to think he lost them and wont tell me.](*,)

[floaterg]

i know liars are good at detecting liars...i'm horrible at it

[Lionel Hutz]

One of my favortie rappers once said; "To write something fake would bore me...."