Does it REALLY matter?

[amipushy]

Does it REALLY matter if your a girl and you contact the guy first, ask him on a date, or phone him to say thank you? Or even sleep with him on the first date, does it really matter???

 

I mean seriously, if you were meant to be together, does it really matter who does what and when? Surely if it was meant to be it would happen no matter who said and did what first and when?

 

I'm sick of these stupid rules, and make me feel like I'm playing a game of manipulation - a game of "softly, softly catchy monkey" ewww I hate it. I just want to be myself, the happy natural me and say hi when I damn well want to, to be myself at all times and if they can keep up or don't like it, then they weren't the right person for me after all.

 

Sure, I'll still get hurt but I'll get over it so I'll move on and I'll get on with my life but at least I was myself. What's wrong with that? Whats wrong just being yourself, doing what you like and when and to hell with it??!!!

 

Surely a man would run a mile to catch up with such a happy, natural woman to dares to be herself rather than one who sits by the phone, paranoid and anxious, that if she calls first or steps off any of the dating rules the guy will be turned off and she will be rejected?

 

And I do wonder if maybe all those women who have played by those dating rules have jeopardised their own happiness because underneath it all when the guy gets to know her more, he realises that she wasn't really a happy, natural woman she pretended to be but she is but a paranoid anxious person afraid of rejection who sits by the phone waiting for his call?

 

I know who I'd rather be.

[Shalron]

you are very right i hate that too, and the pressure is all on us to ask girls out o.O

[Hayles]

Does it REALLY matter if your a girl and you contact the guy first, ask him on a date, or phone him to say thank you?

 

I think this would be fine...

 

Or even sleep with him on the first date, does it really matter???

 

This... hhmmm... I think if you put out a poll to find out how many relationships blossomed after such a first date - and how long they lasted - it's probably not the highest percentage...

 

I mean seriously, if you were meant to be together, does it really matter who does what and when? Surely if it was meant to be it would happen no matter who said and did what first and when?

 

Is fate responsible for ALL of our actions? Are we not responsible for our own actions? I dunno - I mean, if you wanted to be a lawyer, could you expect to wake up one morning and be one even though you failed the barr or have not even been to law school?? Is it reasonable to expect fate to map out a perfect path with no effect from our own action?

 

I'm sick of these stupid rules, and make me feel like I'm playing a game of manipulation - a game of "softly, softly catchy monkey" ewww I hate it. I just want to be myself, the happy natural me and say hi when I damn well want to, to be myself at all times and if they can keep up or don't like it, then they weren't the right person for me after all.

 

It is wonderful to be yourself, for certain!

 

Sure, I'll still get hurt but I'll get over it so I'll move on and I'll get on with my life but at least I was myself. What's wrong with that? Whats wrong just being yourself, doing what you like and when and to hell with it??!!!

 

Surely a man would run a mile to catch up with such a happy, natural woman to dares to be herself rather than one who sits by the phone, paranoid and anxious, that if she calls first or steps off any of the dating rules the guy will be turned off and she will be rejected?

 

And I do wonder if maybe all those women who have played by those dating rules have jeopardised their own happiness because underneath it all when the guy gets to know her more, he realises that she wasn't really a happy, natural woman being herself he thought she was but a paranoid anxious person afraid of rejection who sits by the phone waiting for his call?[/QUOTE]

 

 

But is deciding to wait to have sex, or wait for a phone call to see if he is interested really playing games that could jeopardise happiness?

The "rules" are there, as a general guide, collective thoughts if you will, from a large number of experiences... they are not rules, or games, but rather advice from those who have come before us...

 

By all means, you can ilve how you choose, and be true to yourself... if it works for you, then fantastic!!!

[Batya33]

To me it has mattered, over and over again. I know of only one happy healthy long term relationship that involved the woman doing more of the calling and asking in the beginning and it was so unusual it was reported in a major newspaper last year.

 

It's not about games, it's about me accepting that in most cases - and particularly the men that I typically date - the man is more comfortable doing more of the asking and calling in the beginning. No, contacting a guy through an on line site and suggesting to meet in person doesn't really count - that's not asking a man out - you're complete strangers deciding to meet to see "if" you should go out on a date. Usually with on line sites I let the man suggest meeting first but I contacted many men and if after one phone call he didn't suggest getting together, I did (usually the call happened after a few emails at most).

 

I absolutely thing women should "approach" men they are interested in, say hi, strike up a conversation, get the conversation on to movies you want to see, all of that. I am talking about letting the man do more of the asking out and calling in the beginning and waiting to have sex until you know each other well (also for health reasons) unless you would not be with a man who would be uncomfortable with your need for sex early on. Also, huge mistake to have sex early on with the justification "I am a modern woman, i am horny, so why not??"

 

Because most of those same women, when the man doesn't call, refer to the man as a jerk or a player - all of a sudden Ms. Modern Woman wants to be treated differently (like a traditional lady who the man calls after being intimate to ask her out to a lovely romantic dinner) just because she had intercourse with some guy she recently met.

 

The thank you call I think is mainly silly - it's a transparent "please please ask me out again - I know I "shouldn't" ask you but I will say thank you (again) so that you'll think of me so please ask me out!". In certain cases it's great - if you forgot to say thank you or if he really went the extra mile - if he got (scalped) tickets to a very expensive concert and took you instead of his best friend then perhaps a follow up "wow that was a great show, thanks" - but even then - say thank you on the date. It's simple.

 

Sex on the first date - greater risk that it won't become a relationship.

 

I think our main disagreement is "meant to be together." To me there's no such thing. The beginning stages of dating/getting to know each other are crucial as far as first and second impressions, establishing routines, and people change their minds based on that - there's no "well I'll stick around even though she's /he seems needy/insecure/too aggressive because we're meant to be together. Relationships are ever changing and very much in the beginning. As my friend used to say (she died in her 30s) "I mean, if you sneeze the wrong way on a first date it's all over!" ;-)

 

Especially in the beginning if you are highly interested/smitten you will tell yourself "this is the 21st century, I can call men/ask them out!!" but you won't be doing it because you're a modern woman (so-called- that's what others call that) but because you are so interested you refuse to restrain yourself from calling him and giving him the space to think of you and do what makes him feel comfortable as a man - ask you out on a date he plans in advance. That's kind of fake to me - reacting to your smittendom/insecurities (temporary insecurities" and justifying it with this "I'm modern" stuff. Be real - you would enjoy it if he called you and asked you out, you would be fine with him offering to treat/treat, you just become this "modern" woman temporarily because you want an excuse not to have to wait and let him be, well, "him."

 

Having said all that I think it's fine to ask men out, call them, send them thank you e-mails, have sex on the first date - all of that is fine - nothing wrong with it as long as the woman is willing to risk having far fewer men who want a relationship with her. If she cannot stomach the waiting to be asked or she feels that her true self (and not her true self while smitten, her true self at all times) is to be, for lack of a better term "the man" - then she should do it. I don't know of any women like that but I am sure they exist.

 

Or, if you are the type of woman who is totally comfortable with the relationship having the balance of you doing more of the calling and asking - maybe not because of modern stuff but because you like and get turned on by men who are more passive, who never plan anything (and by the way the men who tell you they are "spontaneous" to avoid putting in the effort to make advance plans typically are just using that as an excuse - of course spontaneity is great while on a date but if he doesn't respect your time enough to plan in advance, how's it going to be when you're married with kids?), who like to be controlled by a woman, then that could work very well for you. I don't know any women who truly like that and are turned on by that but I am sure they exist!

 

When I have "nexted" men who didn't ask me out, seemed to be far too focused on early sex as opposed to getting to know me -I always felt very comfortable with my choice - several of them then stepped up to the plate - but in all my serious long term relationships, he did most of the calling and asking in the beginning, he brought up exclusivity early on and first, he was comfortable waiting to have sex until I was comfortable.

 

I should add that I am proactive when it comes to dating (when I was dating, a few years ago) - i am friendly, flirty as appropriate, I show appropriate interest and enthusiasm in getting to know the man, I do favors (whatever is needed - helping with the person's resume, finding a CD he wants, whatever). I do not think women should be passive or "wallflowers" and expect to be asked out nor do I think the man should "chase" or do "all the work." I don't think asking out a lady is chasing.

 

I have asked several men out - I would have done more if it was effective as far as finding a relationship as opposed to a fling. It was no big deal - I was nervous but I did it. I believe most men are flattered by being asked out, and that if a woman does more of the asking in the beginning he will be flattered, he may accept the dates, but she will not be the lady he brings home to mom or thinks of in any serious way. And that is even more true if she asks him out and has sex with him early on.

 

I'm not here to debate sexism/feminism, or whether this situation should change. If I were asked that, I would say of course it should change - I would have had a MUCH easier time if it was effective to ask men out - I'm an outgoing, reasonably confident person.

 

But I'm not here to change the dating world - there are far more important "causes" in my opinion and most of the men I know (and dated seriously) are very comfortable with that role, including the shy ones. (and no I don't think "very shy" guys need to be asked out over and over again - in my experience if they are really interested and you show interest, that's sufficient)

[amipushy]

Batya I hope you don't mind and I don't meant this in a bad way, but I think you wrote someplace that you dated 100 guys? Do you feel that it's because you did all those rules that you went through so many? I don't want to date a hundred guys pretending to be someone I'm not, I just want one nice one who wants me for me. :sad:

 

I was just having a rant I suppose and I'm not saying that a woman should chase a man down and tackle him to the ground, and drag him off the the bedroom but surely a woman just being herself is a far better option than playing some game which seemingly comes straight out The Rules book.

 

At least then the woman is happy and man gets what he thinks he is getting in the end. I am wondering if its because of all this pretend to be cool, busy, nonchalant or just plain someone that they are not that eventually leaves them high and dry because the man finds out that they are not the person they pretended to be and leaves?

 

Hurt and rejection will come either way if they are not the one for you but at least when I get hurt and rejected, I will get hurt and rejected for being ME. What's wrong with that?

[shes2smart]

So....what are you rebelling against, really? A bunch of "rules" about dating that may or may not be outdated anyway? Or is it that you get to feel unique and unusual because you're choosing not to follow them?

 

Before you get your panties in a bunch, understand that I was very much the "I'll sleep with whoever I want, whenever I want because I can and if I see a guy I'm attracted to I'll ask him out because it's the freakin' 90's and it shouldn't matter" kinda gal back when I was single.

 

So what were my results doing it "my way"? Depends on how you're measuring them. If you're talking about things like "being true to oneself" and "doing what I want to do, how I want to do it, when I want to do it", it was wildly successful. (It helps if you can fully own your own mistakes, otherwise I don't know that "wildly successful" would be an honest description.) If you're using things like "lasting, healthy, happy relationship" as your measure of success...eh...not so good.

 

There are no "dating police" that are enforcing the "rules." If you're carrying around that concept in your head, you're probably going to be better off if you drop it and replace it with "what's going to be best for me in the long term as well as the short term" and base your actions on that.

 

What that meant for me (eventually.....I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes was not investing a lot of time/energy/interest in a guy until he had demonstrated interest in me -- usually that meant being asked and taken on a date or two and not just flirting. Flirty banter meant nothing unless there was some effort (planning/asking for a date) to go along with it. One of the first things I noticed when I decided to try holding back and not being the initiator was that the interaction I had with those men just felt better than the interactions I had with guys where I had been the initiator. Did I date as often not being the initiator? No. But the dates I went on were of better quality and more enjoyable. In short -- If the guy was the initiator, he *wanted* to be there with me, and that that reflected in ALL his actions and our interactions from that point forward. If he was not the initiator, that wasn't always the case.

 

Granted, we're only talking about guys I dated and had relationships with and if you want to talk sheer numbers, I believe the correct term would be "statistically insignificant." But it was significant in my life.

[amipushy]

Lol, I'm not rebelling against anything and I'm not saying I will sleep around or on first date but what I'm finding is that I am slowly starting to changing myself and my thinking to "catch" a man and that worries me.

 

I'm starting to turn into someone I'm not. Me saying to myself, "Oh I'll learn from that and won't do it again" or "I won't do that again, I'll try that" or "I won't say that next time, I'll say this" isn't me learning from it, it actually changing who I am. I don't want to be some super cool, confident or even calculating woman who knows how to do and say the right thing at the right time just to get a date, it sickens me to think that I could turn into someone like that. I'd rather be alone.

 

In my opinion, what's really wrong is not me saying or doing the wrong thing, it's the guy isn't the right one for me. If he was, it wouldnt matter how many times I messed up and said and did the wrong thing and thats the guy I am looking for. Who knows, if I continued to change who I am, by the time he comes along, I would have changed so much that I wasn't the person he was looking for anymore and I would have lost myself in the process. That really bothers me.

[Nixee]

I don't know... I'm torn on this issue a bit.

 

 

I see and hear about that darn book "he's just not that into you" everywhere, and I know the movie is due out soon. This is what this query reminds me of.

 

Sit and wait for him to come to you.... if he is interested... he will come.

 

Yet... I've had many guy friends... perfectly GOOD guys, who claim they just don't function the way that book claims, and they don't agree with that book.

 

And me personally, I dunno... in my experience it doesn't all ring true either.

 

There isn't a 100% rule for any given situation.

 

I think there IS some truth to it though... there is always a time to back off, give space, and let a guy do his chase thing. But certainly there are times that you have to grab the bull by the horns and steal your moment, because otherwise... it just ain't gunna happen. Not all men have the same personality. Some are timid, some are confused, and some moments pass us by in time.

 

If two people are sitting on an opportunity, and one of them sees a chance and one is scared/anxious/whatever, and he just happens to be the male in the scenario, I see nothing wrong with the woman stepping up to the plate and breaking the ice and letting the man know, "hey, I think I feel something here." .... Some men are just kinda clueless (just as some women can be too!), and can benefit from that nudge.

 

Then of course after that point... sometimes you never know what you're gunna get. It comes down to personality type.... not gender. YES, men DO generally like to chase and prove themselves a bit.... but that can often fight inside someone who is naturally more shy or timid.... what then?

 

In my own experience, I have been out with guys who I KNEW wanted to be out with me but just had varying personality types. If they were very outgoing and the social type.... I never would have to do much calling first or anything, I felt very wanted and pursued.... it was right outta that book. But if they were more the reserved, timid, shy type... even if I KNEW they really liked me based on things they'd told me... their actions can just hold them back sometimes.... more timid about phone calls, making first moves, etc.

 

 

In my mind, each new person is a new balancing act. You have to find your balance. If you think you are calling too much and being too forward, you possibly are.... back off and see if they come to you. If they seem thrilled everytime you contact them first... then its no harm doing is it? If YOU are the one feeling insecure and just want to be chased by him... maybe give him a chance to and see what happens?

[amipushy]

In my mind, each new person is a new balancing act. You have to find your balance.

 

That's the best thing I've read so far.

 

I never meant to go "AT HIM", calling all the time or being over the top, taking control when it's not wanted or warranted - I meant just being your natural self, with a bit of respect.

[ghost69]

i don't play by rules. i do what i do. you don't like it, okay fine. i move on. no sleep lost.

 

girls approach me. i haven't seen one get crushed that i wasn't interested in. it's all about what you can handle. i like it when a girl checks me out, comes over and talks, gets my number, etc. not to pump me up or anything, but it shows she is a strong individual. i like that.

[Superfreak]

I know of one couple where it was the girl asked the guy out and they're getting married soon. A friend of mine had a girl ask him out and they stayed together for 2 years. Speaking for myself, it wouldn't put me off at all if the girl asked me out first or called first.

 

But of course, don't listen to me I'm a guy. Listen to these self-help books from divorced or chronically single women that promise if you press just the right buttons in just the right sequence any guy will love you.

[shes2smart]

That's why ceasing to look at it as "rules that must/should be followed" and looking at it from a "what is going to be best for me in both the long and short term" angle is, IMO, a more practical/workable way to look at it.

 

My husband did the initial pursuing when I met him online. I had to be convinced to go out with him...he's 11 years younger than me and I was fairly certain some 26 year old wasn't going to be after the same thing relationship-wise that I was. I was wrong, he was, in fact after the same thing. When we did meet for our first date it went so well that we did have sex on the first date. 6th wedding anniversary is next week. Had I been looking at it as "rules," who knows if I'd be here now? That I was evaluating "What is my best course of action given the information I have to work with now" did get me here.

 

Sometimes, in the quest to find out who we are, we have to go through periods of time where we are something we are not. You try out things, you see if they fit, and if they don't you try something else.

[amipushy]

Listen to these self-help books from divorced or chronically single women that promise if you press just the right buttons in just the right sequence any guy will love you.

 

LOL - cracked me up!

[Batya33]

I met over 100 guys through on line dating - I have not dated 100 guys - not nearly. More like 15-20 in the last 25 years or so - and 4 or 5 of those were before I graduated college.

 

I've never been "chronically single" -- I have had several serious long term relationships - most of the timeI have been involved in a serious long term relationship with a man - I and I strongly believe that a main reason I am not cynical or bitter about men - in fact I am very positive! - is because on the whole I've been treated with respect and like a lady.

 

In part that is because I allowed the man to do more of the asking and the calling in the beginning - I let him do what was comfortable for him, that is.

 

My reasons for not being married don't have to do with whether I was able to find men of character, integrity, all that good stuff or whether they wanted me for the long term (usually the answer was yes, sometimes of course as with all of us they ended things when I would have wanted to continue). I never rejected a man because he didn't follow "rules" but I did when I did not feel respected. I am pleased that I didn't marry just to marry - and that I was able to see the potential mistakes before getting married. (I am not judging those who didn't see the mistakes "before" - I can see where it could have happened that way for me and I empathize!)

 

But again, keep in mind that I "go for" men who are reasonably confident (even if very shy) and tend to be more traditional than not (although all were very supportive and impressed with my career-related accomplishments).

 

I see women who are far younger than me - who are in their 20s, who told themselves that they were cool with casual sex, cool with "pursuing" men but are cynical because they believe they've been treated like crap over and over again.

 

As soon as they realize they want the man to put it a bit more of the effort in the beginning - or even, just take them on a proper date planned in advance - and the man fades out/is history, I often hear "what a jerk, he used me." Revisionist view that ultimately leads to the woman being bitter (because she knows deep down she tolerated that behavior and justified it with the "I want to do what I feel!"/"I'm a modern woman!"/He's a very busy/spontaneous guy!"

 

Obviously casual sex is fine - I just see too many women lying to themselves about being fine with casual sex.

 

I am just saying what works for me and what felt natural to me - and what I have seen work with hundreds of women - at least - mostly ages 25-45 - over and over again. I know/have known of a few happy long term relationships where the woman asked out the man on the first date. But I know of only one where the woman did most of the asking/planning/calling in the early stages of dating. I know of many where the woman approached the man, struck up a conversation, got to know him, flirted - all of that is great and it's good to get practice on that to be able to read vibes and signs, etc.

 

I really loved what shes2smart said and I strongly believe that if you follow your "gut" when you first meet a man who you are totally crazy about/smitten beyond belief - you're not following your gut, you're following your smittendom-ness (word?) and that often leads to behavior that is overwhelming to the man in a bad way.

 

But if you follow a few general guidelines - let him do more of the asking, more of the calling, get to know him at a reasonable pace over time - and remind yourself that what feels "right" is just your brain on infatuation-drugs - you can remind yourself to pace yourself and to be selfless rather than selfish (yes I think it's a bit selfish, when you're self-absorbed by being in love with love - to keep calling to hear his voice, etc because at that point it's all about you and wanting that smitten feeling, not really about whether he needs a bit of space - just a bit - to get to know you at a reasonable pace over time.)

 

And no I don't define success by a wedding ring or an engagement ring (of which I've had one, and been "officially" proposed to a few other times - just to give context) - because not all marriages are happy -I do define it by whether the woman feels positive about men in general, about relationships, and that usually turns on how she has been treated. I don't believe there is an 100% answer but the general guidelines I followed - a dozen years before the Rules was published - served me quite well.

 

Oh and I was being me - I was being a person with a fun, fulfilling life, who wasn't desperate for a man, who was outgoing, flirty when it felt right, enthusiastic, appreciative - and disciplined. Disciplined about not losing my head over some guy I barely knew so that he could get to know me not as some starstruck infatuated emotional mush, but as I was more "in reality."

 

Did I play "games' ever - sometimes (most of the time they were happy to call me and plan in advance so I wouldn't be too busy to see them). Sometimes I said I was busy on a Saturday night when I was asked out last minute (after wednesday night) even if my only plans were with myself - but I guess those plans are important! - sometimes I didn't return a call for a few days if he was calling again just to talk or again to ask me to "hang out" last minute and we didn't have a specific plan for a second or third date

 

- I needed to show this new person in my life by my actions that he needed to put in a bit more effort than that to get a date with me. I didn't confront, accuse or lecture "you should call me by _____" - ick. I figured they were adults, they knew. And when they were interested - and most of the time - they changed their tune fast. The others just weren't that into me and usually i learned that sooner or later. Obviously sometimes I accepted last minute dates with great reasons - no rigidity here. sometimes I faked it till I made it - I acted 'as if" I was reasonably confident because I didn't want to be too vulnerable or too overwhelming to him - wanted to let him catch up to me as far as interest - if we'd only been out 3 times.

 

No, I just restrained myself from saying "yes sure, how high should i jump - what, you want to come by after a night out at the clubs, after you have dinner with your friends, because you couldn't find a better plan - sure, please come and I'll have dinner waiting and I'll be dessert!" I see posts on this board all the time and hear about etc "oh well he text me while he was out with his boys and said he'd been too busy to call, could he come by after and I said yes because I miss him!"

 

Just be careful that when you are being yourself that it's not the "self" that you are when on the love drug and be very clear with yourself that you are fine with the consequences - if being yourself means accepting last minute dates or hang outs on a regular basis, asking him out for the second, third and fourth dates, calling him when you feel like saying hi when you just met two weeks ago, having sex early on before talking about exclusivity, that you are FINE with the consequences - that he might choose the woman who lets him do more of the asking and calling, that he might prefer a woman who waits to have sex (I know, awful double standard), or yes the woman who is just a bit more of a challenge.

 

I don't think anyone should be chasing by the way - never understood why doing more of the asking out in the beginning was chasing.

 

good luck!

[amipushy]

Just be careful that when you are being yourself that it's not the "self" that you are when on the love drug and be very clear with yourself that you are fine with the consequences - if being yourself means accepting last minute dates or hang outs on a regular basis, asking him out for the second, third and fourth dates, calling him when you feel like saying hi when you just met two weeks ago, having sex early on before talking about exclusivity, that you are FINE with the consequences - that he might choose the woman who lets him do more of the asking and calling, that he might prefer a woman who waits to have sex (I know, awful double standard), or yes the woman who is just a bit more of a challenge.

 

Oh I don't know Batya, the last man I was my " true self " with I just plonked my ass on his lap and stayed there blissfully for 24 years, I think just keeping up with me was a challenge enough for him.

[Batya33]

Oh I don't know Batya, the last man I was " true self " with I just plonked my ass his lap and stayed there blissfully for 24 years, I think just keeping up with me was a challenge enough for him.

 

LOL. Like I said, I am not saying that your "approach" ;-) doesn't work just that it hasn't for me and it hasn't for many I've seen. I'm glad you had a great relationship in every way. If you only want a man who will be fine with you showing how smitten you are/highly interested right from the beginning by calling him, asking him out, being sexual early on then that is the man you should go for. I was just commenting - in a very wordy way, sorry, that often what women claim is their "true selves" is not - it's a self from a perspective of smittendom plus insecurity (will he call?? I don't want to wait!"), plus often fear of being alone/desperation thrown in for good measure.

[JadedStar]

I see women who are far younger than me - who are in their 20s, who told themselves that they were cool with casual sex, cool with "pursuing" men but are cynical because they believe they've been treated like crap over and over again.

 

What Batya wrote above is so TRUE and the best response for this thread. Sure, you can have sex early, and chase the guy, but women who do this a lot tend to be the ones treated like crap and then they wonder why over and over again they are finding real losers.

 

YOu can do whatever you want in the dating world just be accountable for your actions. When you jump into bed with someone on a first date you have to realize you are sleepign wtih a guy you DO NOT know yet. Whether or not he is a good guy for you is an unknown. Thus the likelihood that he is etiher a player or just really bad for you is pretty likely.

 

JUst don't do these things and be one of those women who get bitter and become a man hater because if you do these things is it is of your own free will and having sex too soon with a guy does not allow you to even figure out if he is a GOOD guy much less GOOD FOR you.

[amipushy]

Sure, you can have sex early, and chase the guy, but women who do this a lot tend to be the ones treated like crap and then they wonder why over and over again they are finding real losers.

 

Maybe it's because they have been playing by the dating game rules for so long they have lost their "true self" along the way and have become a paranoid and anxious woman who sits by the phone waiting for his call?

[Batya33]

Maybe it's because they have been playing by the dating game rules for so long they have lost their "true self" along the way and have become a paranoid and anxious woman who sits by the phone waiting for his call?

 

No -- because if you are being a person who has a life apart from a man there is little waiting because you are going on other dates too or doing stuff with friends, or doing your activities, gym, whatever. These are women in their 20s who are not waiting but are not waiting out of a sense of "ooh I better accept the last minute hang out/hook up and I'd better hook up early or he might find someone else and then where will I be??"

 

I always felt pretty grounded and balanced in letting the guy be his true self and do more of the calling - and yes sometimes it was painful to wait - just like sometimes it was painful to say no to chocolate cake when I knew it would taste good but make me feel gross after. Not sure where behaving in a disciplined way means you are not being your true self - or that being your true self always requires instant gratification rather than a longer term view.

 

And when the man did call I didn't regret having waited - there is a palpable difference between talking to a new man in your life who called you - than when you call him after the first date to ask him out for a second - if anyone has ever done that (I have!) especially after not hearing from a man for a few days you all know that awkward icky feeling of "ugh, did he really want to hear from me/how do I keep the convo going/will he ask me out or should I"

 

Men don't have that awkward/icky feeling - they might be nervous or apprehensive but because in general (with exceptions!) it is what's typical, there's none of that "ugh, I should have waited for her to call."

 

even when the man is SO happy to hear from you and SO happy to be asked out for the second date almost all of those dating relationships fizzle - the second date might be fun, whatever but very often the guy is at least a bit put off or losing interest. not all the time of course - but much higher risk if that is your MO and you ask him out for date two, then suggest date three ("oh my friends are going out next weekend to this play - do you want to come with me?") etc.

 

i am not talking about obsessive drunk dialing or "chasing" - I am talking about doing half or more of the calling in the beginning, initiating more of the plans in the beginning - and even though you're not chasing, you've upset the typical dating balance and for many men that's not a comfortable situation - they may even not know why they're losing interest.

[amipushy]

But half the time Batya, these women don't have lives, they just pretend to and secretly sit by the phone wating for his call and when he finally susses out they aren't the person they were pretending to be, his ass is out of there.

 

And I'm taking my own advice cos last week I took the advice off someone else and pretended to be someone who I am not, it wasn't their fault as I wanted advice and it was the advice I might have given someone else in my position, but I think pretending to be someone I am not cost me a good man. Never again.

 

And no doubt, I shall find myself posting on here sometime soon hurt and rejected by another man and learning from my mistakes but hurt and rejected or just plain lost interest as youu put it at least I will know I was the real me and I won't kick myself over the fact that IF I HAD been the real me things might have been different.

[Batya33]

Hey there - well I am totally with you that a person shouldn't pretend to have this awesome social life and to be super-confident if she is not (not referring to you, just an example). But, my point is different - there is no reason to bare all - emotionally or physically - to a brand new person in your life and no reason to overwhelm him with attention - from a perspective of smittendom. That's when the guidelines of "whoaaa - slow down - let him woo you just a bit, don't be overly available, overeager even though your heart is screaming - go for it/see him every day/choose your children's names now - now now!

 

There is a great thread on this started by Raykay, fools rush in - check it out if you like.

 

and I say that if a person has no life, is lonely, that is the worst time to get to know someone new because of the increased vulnerability so that you are not being your true self, you're being your true self going through a needy time.

 

good luck to you!

[JadedStar]

If you think my advice was in anyway shape or form leaning towards not being yourself then you read it wrong.

 

If your only alternative to wiating by the phone for a guy to call is to chase him, then maybe you should expand your horizons and get more hobbies, go out with friends more and find other interests vs making him such a top priority before you are even dating seriously.

 

If you have been pretending to be someone you are not then I am not surprised you have lost some potential dating partners in the past. No one is recommending that.

[amipushy]

Sorry I didnt know you had given me any advice so no I wasn't talking about you.

 

And I think you misunderstood me, I actually have lots of friends and a full life which is why I don't need to sit by the phone pretending to be someone else in order not to upset the dating rules, or to change myself and lie in case men think I'm sad and lonely because I don't have plans for that weekend, which as strong independent woman I think is ridiculous but seems the other alternative.