Nonchalance is Your Friend

[Janeiac]

I really appreciate the comments here. I've already reaped a lot of benefits of letting go, but as you say it's a path and not a destination and I'm still walking it. I do stumble, and then pick myself up, brush off the dust, and keep going. Not that anyone else cares!

[CrapAtNC]

Well, not too much. ;-)

[Janeiac]

I actually started out being nonchalant, and happy. I see now I slipped-- slowly but inexorably-- into giving too much and found myself in a really unbalanced, unsatisfying relationship with a man who appeared not to respect me or hold much regard for my feelings but still not wanting to let go of it. I started out cool-- if he calls me, fine. If not, that's fine too and we had a good time together and I enjoyed him, and us. Later I wound up crying alone in my bed beause he'd blown me off again and the relationship is going nowhere and he doesn't love me and I'm going to die alone with nobody to bury me. The neighbors will complain about a smell and the cops will break in to find my dead, decomposing body and no one will have even noticed I was gone. Whew! I am so glad to leave all that behind me. Who needs a guy who makes me feel like that? More to the point, why did I ever let him? Back on track!

[CrapAtNC]

The way I see it, relationships are like a cup, and that cup is usually full to the brim with what we both put into it. Now, there can be many other things, but one of the biggest components of course is love, and all that love brings with it, such as caring, such as wanting to please, such as wanting to give.

 

Problems arise, however, when one person puts too much into the cup, because it leaves no room--nor any need--for the other person to add some. The other person is content because the cup is full--nay, overfloweth!--with all that he or she wants from it. But the first person, despite being a very loving, giving kind, feels frustrated, unappreciated, unloved, because he or she is getting nothing from the other person in the relationship.

 

Sadly, these people don't understand that it's because they put too much into the cup that the other person cannot--and need not--add theirs. The other person, now tired at being blamed, harassed, and nagged about not investing anything in the cup, doesn't understand, because he or she can see that there's plenty of love, giving, kindness, and caring in the cup, and that he or she couldn't add any anyway as the other person is leaving no room for it.

 

So he or she, with the inflated ego that comes from having the cup filled for them, and with a desire to give, will look for another, less full cup to give it to. And lo and behold, that empty cup can be filled by them, leaving the person on the other side of the cup with no room or need to add his or her contribution. The first person is unable to do the same, because he or she has nothing to give to another cup; it's all gone in the one with the other person not contributing.

 

If you want a balanced relationship, and you want someone to give as much as you do . . . you won't get that until you learn to give a little less.

[askltk]

 

If you want a balanced relationship, and you want someone to give as much as you do . . . you won't get that until you learn to give a little less.

 

It really is the case that less is more! Smothering my ex didnt make her want me, it made her run. It's a tough lesson to learn from those of us who have issues with co-dependancy and almost force a relationship when things arent going right.

 

Just about got my cup 1/2 full now, now looking for that top up (be it my ex, or anyone who cares to mix )

[KateUK]

Just about got my cup 1/2 full now, now looking for that top up (be it my ex, or anyone who cares to mix )

 

Love how it's half full and not half empty

 

I am still practicing nonchalance as well as I can, and ex boyfriends from years ago keep coming out of the woodwork... bizarre! Had a big chat with one of them last night and I had been in such a mess when he dumped me that I had actually blocked out most of my memories of the relationship. I just remember the desperation when he left (I physically tried to stop him and jumped in front of his van!!!). He filled in a few memory gaps and I felt like I made peace with my crazy mixed up teenage self. Feel loads better today for that, it reminds me where I came from and how much I have improved over the past 12 years. If I can get to this point from there, anyone can

 

Can't believe how well everyone is doing!! x x x

[Dolph]

Crap or Rukumouru.

 

Generally speaking I am very carefree and not much gets to me, my ex of 3 years hated how I would never get jealous or care if she cancelled something, except this breakup has got to me and she has seen me at my worst.

 

It has been 3 months now, The first couple of weeks were me chasing, asking for another chance, etc. Followed by her chasing me enough to keep me around, but not asking for me back. Twice (1 month and 2 months ago) I lost my calmness and pushed for reconciliation/ told her she would one day regret breaking up with me. I thought she was coming around when she was asking me around for christmas and texting a lot. She went away for holidays, I didn't hear from her for over 2 weeks even though I knew she was back, I ended up calling her, conversation was friendly and I still kept it fairly short.

 

I speak to her this week, she has been on a date with somebody she met on her holiday, which I handled quite well, as I have been dating also. She calls me again later that night, I had been thinking all day and decided I would rather not talk to her while she is dating and i let her know I still have feelings for her. She got very defensive (telling me that it is nothing), but also said she won't be in any relationship for at least a year, which hurt me a lot, I told her then we can't be friends anymore as I need to get over this. I saw her photos from her trip and saw this guy that took her on a date in the pics, I lost my cool and deleted her and all of her friends from FB (opposite of Nonchalance I know). We had a bit of a text argument the next day which I have smoothed over since with a quick call, she also told me she is going to a club this week that I go to a lot and asked about a couple of girls that have been writing on my fb wall.

 

Okay guys, this is where I need your help. I want to get over her, but I would take her back. I doubt she will call me now as I have asked her not to.

Her 21st Birthday is on Feb 6th and she will be having her party late Feb (which I will be invited to).

The longest I have gone NC for is 13 days.

 

Should I go out with my friends tomorrow night even though I know she will be there?

Should I call her for her 21st? Should I attend?

[Janeiac]

I can see that I tried to drag X faster and further ahead into a commitment than he wanted. However, he himself created some of that expectation. He wanted a child, and we tried deliberately to get me pregnant. Given that, I felt he really ought to be moving in with me and making my place his home, with the responsibilities that entails, and to be preparing a marriage proposal and saving for a ring. However, I never ever mentioned those things because I know talk like that scares the wits out of most guys except for the one conversation he and I had in which we agreed to stop using contraceptives. I told him I would only agree to get pregnant if he would marry me. I did not want to become a single mom. He absolutely agreed. He said he would want to be married. I left the rest up to him. I did not push. I did ask him once or twice about moving in--without demanding. I did have expectations, however, and what I did wrong was that when I was sort of "leaning away" to try to draw him closer, I did it sullenly and with a sense of being ill-used. If I'd been more joyful and enthusiatic -- and nonchalant!--it might have worked better. But In the end, he is just one of those guys who absolutely does not want to make any type of commitment. I mean NEVER-- not even for something like an event a few days hence. He joked that choosing a movie on TV was too much of a commitment for him. How he squares that in his head with wanting a child I will never understand.

I am ordinarily a cheerful and kind person who nonchalantly takes annoyances in stride, such as when the snowplough man put the snow from the parking lot and put it into my spot so I couldn't get my car into it. I spoke with the property manager and him about it-- nicely! The both thanked me for being so nice and patient about it and not getting angry. I'm thinking, sheesh, who would get angry over something like that? apparently some people do. X nibbled that away and ground me down until I became grouchy, irritable, and depressed-- and I let him. My lesson here is to learn to shrug off the bigger hurts and disappointments as easily as I do the minor ones. That's tough to do. I lost my head. I'm getting it back on.

[Janeiac]

Dolph, if you and she are officially broken up it's best if you don't give her a gift or attend her milestone birthday party. If you do that, or keep seeing and communicating with her, it makes things very muddy and confusing and truly will cause you more hurt than staying away. My opinion is based on long, painful expereince of going back and forth with breaking up/seeing each other/getting back/breaking up in my past. In retrospect I wish I hadn't gotten on that relationship merry-go-round when I was 23. It was one of the worst times of my whole life, and I am much older now. Spare yourself the pain. Stay away.

I know you didn't ask me, so I hope you don't feel I've spoken out of turn.

[askltk]

Personally, I think every situation is different. If anything, this thread in particular points to the premise that you can be in contact with an ex - as long as its in the right manor.

 

I've found that its not so much being in contact, it's coming accross happy and positive in whatever situation. Be it talking / texting / meeting up etc...being positive is almost infectious in a sense that they will notice and will act accordingly. Nonchalance does allow you to still care for your ex, just not to be affected by their movements.

 

I suppose it's just if you can control your involvement and not over analyse communication. It took me a while....

[Mark33]

I have posted a lot about this situation, I received very shocking violent messages from her, scared to be dumped because she had in mind to dump me... which she did,

without any reason but only because I haven't answered her sms for 1 day... but she did the same before for 4 days she didnt answer any sms...

 

Updates:

 

After 8 days of no contact, she wrote me this long and weird email:

 

 

"I don't know what to write to you.

 

First I thought that you are "not a gentleman" and when you were

not answering my messages, it was like signal "I want

to break up with you".

I tried to call you. I was angry that you didn't want meet me even last time, speak with me.. I felt really terrible.

 

And then you sent me first message - Oh I was

really angry, because I thought that you tried to say "I am rich so I

can do whatever I want to do".

 

But afterwards you've sent me another messages, about habit,

and I started thinking about this situation. And it was my mistake,

because I've understood you wrong. But I didn't

rewrite, because I was ashamed.. Now you and I, both we are busy, I have exams,

and I am thinking, that.. maybe after this, when you will have some free time,

maybe we could meet? And speak, but don't worry, nothing like "to be

togheter again", Just conversation because I don't want to ending this

in this way. You were, and you will be important for me, maybe now as

friend? Oh I am sorry, just give me answer if you could meet me, maybe

last time.

 

Even if you do not respond to this message, I hope that you will be well

Maybe someday meet again, I hope. Until then, good luck.

"

 

 

What is the best reply to this, which will make her more attracted to me and more willing to be again my girlfriend?

 

She is contradicting herself numerous times in this email.

She is a 9.5/10 and extrenmely attractive, cute and sweet in everyday life.

 

But usually she takes opinions from parents and friends, and she is ruled by fear

of not pleasing others around her.

 

Thank you guys

Let me know what you would answer to this. I never broke up with her,

in her mind it is just chaos and total misintepretations

or more probable, game playing...

[gallop30]

the best reply is no reply,let her send you another email. there will be another one,trust me.

wait a week or so. im 80% sure she will send one in a week.

[gallop30]

sorry but i had to laugh,can she be a 10 and not attractive?

i never saw an unattractive 10,lol

 

don't let her beauty get to you,that's the mistake lot of people do,they think to high of their partners,and that's when insecurities and jealousy will come from.

 

if you look at your partner as being better looking,smarter than you,how do you expect them to think about you? no no,you are a 10 my friend and she is whatever she wants to be,you are the 10 for yourself.

[LillyLooWho]

Personally, I think every situation is different. If anything, this thread in particular points to the premise that you can be in contact with an ex - as long as its in the right manor.

 

I've found that its not so much being in contact, it's coming accross happy and positive in whatever situation. Be it talking / texting / meeting up etc...being positive is almost infectious in a sense that they will notice and will act accordingly. Nonchalance does allow you to still care for your ex, just not to be affected by their movements.

 

I suppose it's just if you can control your involvement and not over analyse communication. It took me a while....

 

This is absolutely true. I think the best way to think about it is to treat your ex or current partner like your friend that you really like but don't NEED. If you normally don't call your best friend back immediately when they call, then don't immediately call your ex or SO back immediately. It's about acting like your normal self when you see them -- happy, nice, but not unendingly available. Sometimes I go to a friend's house and hang out and then after I'm there for a couple of hours I get bored and I go home. If I was with a guy, I would go hang out with them and stay and stay. Now I don't do that. I leave after awhile. This gives much needed space. I just treat them like they are a regular person, not like the sun with me, the earth, revolving around them.

[Dolph]

Dolph, if you and she are officially broken up it's best if you don't give her a gift or attend her milestone birthday party. If you do that, or keep seeing and communicating with her, it makes things very muddy and confusing and truly will cause you more hurt than staying away. My opinion is based on long, painful expereince of going back and forth with breaking up/seeing each other/getting back/breaking up in my past. In retrospect I wish I hadn't gotten on that relationship merry-go-round when I was 23. It was one of the worst times of my whole life, and I am much older now. Spare yourself the pain. Stay away.

I know you didn't ask me, so I hope you don't feel I've spoken out of turn.

 

No I don't mind at all Janeiac. I appreciate your help.

 

I think you may be right. I have told her that we can no longer talk a couple of times, however she has always broken it whenever she fears that I have met somebody new or read commenting on my FB.

 

It's 3 months after break up and I was expecting her to have come around by now. It feels like I have barely healed, I think it may be time to cut her out of my life all together even though I will miss her so much.

[CrapAtNC]

She hasn't come around yet because you've not yet given her anything to come around to. ;-)

[Janeiac]

CrapatNC, what's going on with you? You've achieved that happy balance that coming from keeping yourself grounded-- nonchalance-- but what about your relationship situation? Is there anything we can talk about to maybe help you?

[CrapAtNC]

Ha! I'm enjoying single life right now and all the benefits that nonchalance brings, so in no rush to settle back down just yet. ;-)

 

But thank you.

[sfindependent]

I've been following this thread and wondering if i can get some enlightenment, some advice and/or a slap in the head.

 

Sometime by our first month she got pregnant, and we decided to have an abortion...

 

sometime after our 6month, sex began to dwindle...

 

sometime after our first year she broke up with me, but ultimately we decided to get back together.

 

Since this christmas, we havent been having sex, as much as i tried to encourage her. We fought like we havent fought before and by a week or so ago, we decded to call it quits. We live together and basically do the same thing we were doing while we were together except the physical stuff like kissing and holdinghands and hugging.....

 

basically her main reason for us not working out is that she's lost her attraction to me and try as she might, cannot get that feeling back. It's been replaced by remorse, hate, and UNattraction and doubt because of her trying so hard...Lately she said that she cannot see us being together in the future.

In turn, i'm becoming this unstable guy who cannot let the magic of nonchalance happen...

 

We're good with when it comes to the non-romantic, non sexual stuff like hanging out but when it comes to the bedroom, nada. no interest at all. She's a fine woman whom i'm quite attracted to.

 

I really don't know where she's at emotionally. She's saying that she feels weird when we hug now, havent kissed and when we sleep in bed, feels weird when we lay together and hug....

 

what am i to do? Move out? continue nonchalance? I'm just at a very confused state right now...

[CrapAtNC]

When the attraction disappears like that, it's a good idea to give her some space for a while, to miss you while you work on getting your mojo back.

[sfindependent]

thanks crap...

 

So i've been talking to her about moving out, but to be honest I'd like to keep living with her, I'd want to keep dating her, and want that attraction level up. In gauging her emotions, she does act like she still cares about me, but not in that special way, at least not right now.

 

in what way do you mean give her space, when we're living together?

[sfindependent]

i tried to add more to my reply but i guess it exceeded a 30min limit to edit my post so here's the lenghtier one...

 

thanks crap...

 

So i've been talking to her about moving out, but to be honest I'd like to keep living with her, I'd want to keep dating her, and want that attraction level up. In gauging her emotions, she does act like she still cares about me, but not in that special way, at least not right now.

 

in what way do you mean give her space, when we're living together?

 

I'm not really sure how to act non-chalantly when we share the groceries, the food, pretty much everything. I'm still doing the laundry and the dishes while she cooks dinner and waits on me to get home. The passion is just not there.....

 

Of course I'd like to be a better man for her, or for anyone this time around...i did treat her the right way as much as I can but... its only late that we've been on very bad terms arguing and "forcing" and "nagging" and "overcaring"...

 

I'm reading the book codependent no more and it's been helpful... I really do think we love each other, no doubt. and we care for each other... the passion just, went away. and for a minute we BOTH wanted it back, but now she's given up in finding it and had summed up the frustration, the lack of passion the arguments (which I think was from the frustration over lack of passion and attraction) to us not being right for each other. She's being strong, but she's also at some point last night before I got a bit "frisky" and gave unwanted advances, that she's not sure what we are... after my display of weakness she became stronger with her convictions and pushed further away. i told her as she went to bed i cared a lot about her and how my emotions got away from me, that i wanted to be with her but i was also sorry for how I acted tonight...

 

I sent her a text (even tho she's in the same house lol and right beside me, she was drunk from partying)

 

Just in case you might have been to drunk to remember last night, i'm sorry i went out of line at the Hobnob (i wasn't yelling or anything, just being pushy), my emotions went crazy and just spat out random * * * * ...when u got home i felt kinda frisky so i acted the way I did u know i care a lot about u and im sorry for how things are the way they are between us, i respect how u feel about us and understand i cannot control or make u feel otherwise. I really just want u to be happy and i hope u are with your descions in lfe. no hard feelings I hope..

 

I tried to encourage her to do it again this morning (ugh, i've not had any in weeeeeeks and its pretty difficult NOT to feel this way, especially when you live with someone you're heavily attracted to)

 

ugh give me strength to move on.

[CrapAtNC]

Begging and desperation are a turn-off. You need to step back and see what's pushing her away. Then tell yourself that your mission now is to make her come to you, not give in to your advances. To do that, you need to pull back and cheer up. You're smothering her right now, which leaves her gasping for air and thus pushing you away. Let her breathe. Let her miss your advances, your kindness. Don't go cool on her; be fun and friendly but leave her alone a lot more. Nonchalance is exactly for situations like this, where you really can't go NC. So adopt it. No more neediness. No more begging. No more demands. No more questions. No more being disappointed. And no more apologies (if you do something that offends, just say you didn't mean to offend and move on, with a smile or a suggestion that immediately changes the subject: "Coffee?").

 

Read your post and understand how weak, unmanly, and desperate it sounds. That's not you, and it's not for her, for sure. So just stop it. She knows you want her, so no need to say it any more; in fact, you'll spark interest if you behave in a way that makes her wonder whether you do want her any more.

 

She hasn't left yet, so you have hope. But she will leave if you don't give her space. Leave her alone a little more than feels comfortable for you. Happily do things by yourself. Take up a new hobby that keeps you busy and away from the house some nights.

 

You can do this. Pull back. Let her come to you.

[Mrs Popsicle]

Argh, I need a nonchalant metaphorical kick!!

 

Me and BF have split, but have been talking, still involved somewhat as friends, and I have suddenly become a needy mess

 

I'm actually ashamed at some of the mixed messages I've been sending him, he must think I'm an absolute loon (and I'm starting to wonder myself!)

 

I like all your tips CrapatNC, but I feel like the impression I have given him of myself over the last few days is irreversable- and I know I shouldn't care - but I feel like rubbish now! I'm finding it hard to be nonchalant to him or even to myself when I keep beating myself up over the past few days lunacy!

 

Just to confirm, I'm not looking at getting back with him the nonchalance is for myself!!

[CrapAtNC]

Trust me, there is always someone who has given a far worse impression of themselves with their ex, and that person is usually me. Here's the key: if you can forget it, he can. Just move on. It happened. Accept it, forget it, and carry on as you were.

 

Anyway, mixed messages are a turn-on when done nonchalantly. ;-)