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Nonchalance is Your Friend


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I hung out with my ex yesterday, for the first time in a while, just chilling and not fighting or arguing about our relationship. We ate pizza, watched football, and took a nap. Lol .. it was a really good day. Right now he has this other girl who he doesn't really hang out with but texts constantly and gets attention from...which bothers me to no end but I am not going to tell him about it. He's told me before "you'd get further if you didn't care"... which goes along with this thread. I DO care, and I really want to be with him, even more after yesterdays hang out but, I'm not going to let him know that or even bring up that subject anymore.. instead I think maybe I'll let him contact me and act like I don't care anymore.. which in the past after hanging out I'd want to talk about us, and it never went well. So, for now, I'll be nonchalant.

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For certain, nagging and complaining will not make someone love or appreciate you more, but creating a little more distance, through a little less availability and a bit more aloofness (along with a flirty smile) will bring them running. I know, because I begged my ex to love me (literally . . . in my not-so-nonchalant days, of course), and it only pushed her away. But when I gave her something to chase, she was the one who came begging.


This really does work but if you are in a relationship and you're going to do this then it's better that your partner is either made aware of what you're doing or you be very, very careful. Otherwise you're likely to trigger the "Clinger" in your partner because they will feel you pull away and not be aware that you're not going very far or for very long which will cause them to become even more needy and clingy. Which in turn will trigger your need to run even further away. It works, just be careful or talk about it first.

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I was watching my friends who are succesfull, in happy relationships, who have their girlsfriends really in love with them.


They are indeed very nonchalant, even when they have a very hard time, they treat it with a smile on their face.


I wasn't on ENA for a long time and in the meantime:


I am with a new girlfriend, 18 years old, a 9.5/10 by everyone's I asked standards,

first year in university student, very cute, happy, sweet, but also with such success to all guys that she was extremely noncommitting in our relationship.


Imagine that you have as girlfriend Paris Hilton and it is real, not a dream.

This is me and her in the last 4 months.


After about 5 of her colleagues students proposed dates with her, she started to be more excited by these guys, telling me that she enjoys spending time with them.


I ignored this, because there was nothing that I could do about it anyway.


But she started to spend more time with these guys, and less time with me.


In the same time, always when I was away (for example for Xmas at my family),

she was very loving and sweet in her messages (texts) to me, but when I was close,

she many times didn't answer at all the messages.


So I decided to do the same.


After 2 days of me not answering her cold messages, she started to write really shocking and violent messages, like nothing I have seen before.

I guess this is because she is used of having every guy at her feet, and me

not answering to her messages for 2 days, really pissed her off.


She wrote quite insane things that have nothing to do with reality.


She is a 9.5/10 by everyone's standards, that means that all her life she got away with any abusive behaviour. Still she is very sweet most of the time.


I don't know what to do now, I am just very shocked of the messages she wrote.


I would like to reply in a nonchalant way, to make all this violent behaviour go away...

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Mrs Popsicle, it's great that you have realised what you could have done differently. For certain, nagging and complaining will not make someone love or appreciate you more, but creating a little more distance, through a little less availability and a bit more aloofness (along with a flirty smile) will bring them running. I know, because I begged my ex to love me (literally . . . in my not-so-nonchalant days, of course), and it only pushed her away. But when I gave her something to chase, she was the one who came begging.



Thing is I'm not sure that nonchalance would have been enough to make up for the problems in the relationship TBH however, I think it would have made me feel heaps better....for the last 6 months I not only had a BF who wouldn't make much effort, but I felt like rubbish because of the way *I* was behaving. Nonchalance ftw!!


Thanks for your input!


Mrs Popsicle

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What did she write?


in the last 2 weeks, whenever we were close, she didn't really do everything to meet with me, while when I was away, she wrote to me often, caring for me,

wondering if I arrived well at home and so on.


Then after New Years party, she didnt answer for almost 36 hours to 2 of my texts in which I was simply asking where she is and how

she is enjoying 2011


Then she wrote me, and proposed to meet, but I did the same, and didn't reply.


Her texts after just 24 hours were shocking and violent (no connection with any reality, so I ignored them, hoping that

she will stop and realize how crazy it is what she is writing, but she continued.). The problem is that a spoiled 9.5/10

girl that is used to having all the boys at her feet, was never ever rejected by anyone, so her behaviour can be anything at all,

and everyone loves her anyway, she is simply incredibly cute and sweet...



So here are her messages:




I didn't know what to answer to this.


How can I reply in a way in which to create attraction?


Maybe the problem was a loss of attraction for me in the last weeks, combined

with her meeting all these new attractive guys colleagues at her university...


After 1 day of me not answering: she wrote:


"We should meet to talk. But hmm, you ignore me.

If you think that this is the best way to break up, I have to say

that you're wrong. We should meet, but if you chose this option to say " * * * * off" -

I can only say, OK, your choice.


Good luck and Goodbye!"


[we never even thought about any breaking up. But she was quite cold

lately and interested more in her colleagues than in me.

However this could be only my interpretation, as also she was sending me loving cute messages

saying she is missing me and she wants to spend New Year with me.



Then after 1 more hour:


"Do you think that I'm idiot? You treat me like trash.


You said that you would never hurt me, and you'd be gentleman.

Congratulations! - you failed.


Don't worry, this is the last message.."


She is very easy to be influentiated by others.

It is very shocking because I always treated her very nice,

I was always supporting her and helping her.


So these messages were shocking and without any

connection with reality. I ignored them and didn't reply,

but I don't know what to do or what do they mean...


How can I be nonchalant about this insane violent provoked drama?

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Wow, this woman has major mood swings! I guess she has been getting away with it for now, so why should she try to correct herself? I am the type of person that will not put up with any swearing or name calling. Once that starts, the name calling could get uglier and could potentially turn physical. Basically once the verbal abuse starts, the relationship is over.


However, I know of several couples that swear and call each other every name in the book, and that seems ot be ok with them. I'm not sure of your status with this woman at this point, and even if you think it is worth reconcilitation, but this is obviously bothering you. If you think this relationship is worth saving, maybe tell her that this type of language is a "deal breaker" for you, and that is she ever does it again you atre through. This way, you are giving her one last chance, satisfying in your mind you did all that you could. Let her cool off for a few day before you tell her this.

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well, she never reacted nice at my 2 attempts in the past to criticize her in ANY way to change.


She is considered by EVERYONE to be a 9.5/10, ambitious, sweet, supercute, stunning beautiful,

so her incentive/motivation to CHANGE is ABSOLUTELY ZERO.


I think that many guys are willing to pay thousands of dollars just to stay and listen to her, or just be close to her,

she has such cuteness, joyful energy, sexy, etc. And it is not me blinded by anything because I do not love her,

just my everyday observations for the last 4 months.



To be close to her for most guys is an amazing experience because of her happiness, joy, cuteness and sweetness.



That's why I was blown apart by such messages...

which for her are probably normal way to take control of a relation... the bf apologizes, he feels the usual power is back in her hands... etc


But I know that she reacts in this way notconsciously, but only because her strong emotions have no logic/ration, she just felt losing control

so she wrote these messages... I never received something like this in my whole life,

so I need your help CrapatNC and all other people in here with your advices!


Thank you!

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Well, the best advice I can give is to not reward it in any way. Tell her you're not trying to break up with her and like being with her but that her recent messages were a bit of a concern. Then brush it off and move on. Change the subject. Hang out. Don't mention it again. Any time it happens, as best you can, ignore it, and it will happen less. This girl lives for attention, but not the kind she gets all the time, which bores her. Give her attention for things other than her looks and sweetness. Find other attributes and compliment her on them, and do something sweet because of them. Maybe you're impressed by the way she handled a situation; tell her so. Reward or ignore; this is how we change behaviour most effectively.

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I have had this thread up, on my laptop, and a few stories per day, read, learned, grown, and really absorbed the process, and I have to say, I have never been more.. uplifted by the *secret* I now feel I have, that has pulled me from a really, really dark place in my life.


For starters, when I was without hope, first, I began to search, looking for people like me. Broken relationships, not knowing what I was doing wrong, not knowing why I was driving her away, not knowing why she lost attraction. The spiral of co-dependence in ALL of the relationships I have ever had, was not obvious.. much less even in reading the threads, I kept on reading get help for yourself, or work on yourself first.

After one period of *enforced no-contact* I managed to squirm back into a slighted friendship position, where our once close knit friendship became very guarded and distanced. The entire time I was attempting to buy my way into her good graces and gain her at the price of my dignity and self-respect (money, gifts, offering unnecessary advice, attempting to gain control of the situation any way I could). I used every "tactic" any co-dependent would, and they are plentiful, negative attention, positive attention.. lethal poison which I never knew that I, myself, was consuming, to keep contact and regain control of the situation any possible way I could.

That co-dependence, which you casually mention, has been a crippling, insidious beast in my friendships and relationships for almost as long as I have had a social life, and I never really realized.. There is no such thing as healthy giving, unless you expect no result or emotional reward from the receiver. You cannot, at any price, money, dignity, or pride, sacrifice your own well-being, to attain a reward that will reward you as well as knowing, I am a person of value.. and.. when to say "no" when my boundaries are crossed.


That moment has changed my life in the instant I recognized and accepted how self-destructive, and how dark a place co-dependence can drive you into.

On the nonchalant front, that is almost.. *almost* a natural by-product of believing in yourself, and not sacrificing your dignity, moral values, soul and core values, to make ANY relationship work. The fact that you believe in yourself, and you do, indeed know how to value yourself above all else, makes you WORTH a relationship from the moment you present yourself as a willing participant in the dating world.

The joy that has entered my heart, knowing the danger that lurks in co-dependence has given me back the gleam in my eye and the *true* smile, which I have not had with ANY human contact in ANY situation in years, and years, and years, of my life.

The fact that I have regained composure in my life, and regained a new sense of calm forward momentum in an extremely positive way, has made nonchalance, an entirely natural phenomenon in my newfound sense of calm and self-worth.

I have read this thread in it's entirety, cover to cover, and I cannot stress enough, not to just look at new and interesting approaches.. what to do with your newfound freedom and happiness, but to also remember.. WORK ON YOURSELF. If you have always had a co-dependent streak, that rears it's ugly head in relationships, you have GOT to take the time to rebuild the joy, to increase the potential for success in your future relationships. It takes time, to be solid in your core and laid back, and comfortable in your own shoes.

I kept looking for people that needed me, and then adjusted my values and morals to win their approval/affection and I cannot tell you how that gained me some pretty low quality experiences, with low-quality unfulfilling PEOPLE.. and yet I was still in a position where I felt I had to sacrifice my own self-worth, and devalue my core, to keep them in my life. I felt I was worth no better than who would accept me, for what I had to give. And it terrified me that I could not give enough to keep them attracted. Some of these people, surprisingly, were people I would have never considered dating to begin with, had I had the wisdom to keep my self-esteem and dignity throughout the relationship, and not go to extraordinary lengths, attempting to feel accepted and valued by them instead of realizing I AM valuable.


Nonchalance, as a way of life, is a natural extension of the process.. something that amazingly, has come natural as a part of rebuilding myself as a complete, whole person, that *I KNOW* deserves a great relationship, without a whole lot of extraordinary superhuman effort.


I know this is a VERY long post and may appear off-topic to a degree, I read the entire thread from start to finish before I posted, so I have a lot of people who I wanted to say thank you to for sharing your experiences, and while I have obviously used a lot of words to do so, everybody, this is definitely a life altering experience for me, and a lesson in knowledge that is life-altering. Don't rush back into unstable difficult relationships. Really, really, take a look at yourself. Co-dependency is treatable, and non-chalance is not a technique.. it becomes an incredible free, calm, genuine joyful smile in your acceptance of other people's lives, decisions, and most importantly, being valued because you ARE valuable. From moment 1.

Thank you crap, and many others for sharing your thoughts..

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Thank you for sharing so beautifully the essence of what it is to realize that we get so much more--and therefore can value and be valued far greater--when we hold some in reserve. I play with this a lot, and you're experiencing what I've been enjoying for a while now, and that is that the less we try, the more we get, and the happier our partners are.


And thank you for reminding me and everyone else that the real value of this thread is that people like you share their experiences so publicly.


Welcome to nonchalance, musicmancanada. I applaud your lifestyle change. And I'm looking forward to hearing what great things it brings you and those you love.




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Got to agree with Crap - your post hits on a lot of points that people in this thread can really relate to.


What I've found (and continue to discover), is that nonchalance is ultimately the bi-product of concentrating on yourself.


Couple of key points I continue to remind myself of is that nonchalance isnt about not caring about our ex's / partners, on the contrary even, its just a way of putting ourselves first and allowing them to realise we dont "need" their companionship.


Also, and this is something that I found tough to begin with (and to agree with Crap's words once again) - less really is more. I, like you, would try to buy my gf's (Now ex) dwindling affection with both emotional and physical gifts, at the cost of my respect and self worth. I genuinely believed that by showing her how much she meant to me, putting her first and proving that all I cared about was her happiness - would in some way re-ignite the attraction.


I credit this thread a-lot for my progression thus far, and find myself coming back to it to refresh myself.

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It says a lot when some of the first posts you put out mentioned the term co-dependence, and I had no idea what the heck it meant. The more research I came accross.. the more obvious it became that it's tanked friendships and relationships throughout my life.. an insidious battle of people-pleasing, boss-pleasing, over-thinking, over-reacting, overstepping, and wild-guessing what others might be thinking about something I did or didn't do right or wrong.. I cannot possibly know what other people are thinking.. but if I'm valuable enough and genuine enough to KNOW I am a great guy to be around, and I'm not trying to buy other people's attention or a woman's love, by token gestures that cost me my dignity..


Then who cares? Everybody makes mistakes, so why sell myself short?


The woman I've been pining away for, an ex lover for a year or so, has gone through at least three lovers and a relationship where they cheated on each other, and apparently I'm her sounding board.. clearly I'm friend zoned.. I was also a rebound, and over the holidays I called her pretty much every last nasty name in the book.. my last co-dependent act.. she told me I was whining like a little girl.. then I pleaded, and managed to bring it back to 'somewhat' civil, peaceful state.. and apologized. I'm pretty much the only one in her life that never really got the 'chance' for a relationship with her because my co-dependence kicked in right about the time it would have naturally become something more.. had I not given her complete and utter control.. but.. she's pretty good at forgiving me. I know there must be some redeeming qualities in me, that she still believes are valuable enough to constantly forgive me, and keep me in her life as a friend. The funny thing is, the tables have turned? I don't care if she wants me or not


Ironically, the day before yesterday, I suggested now we were at peace with each other and not arguing or angry and apologies have been made, we should stop talking for a while.. I would take time to heal, and of course, she doesn't have any intention of a relationship with me. She actually says she's defiant against the idea. I've somehow let co-dependence turn me into a 'father figure' in her life, whom she believes is trying to control her..

Regardless, I may open communication after a reasonable amount of time, maybe a month or so, and enact the 'new approach' to see how receptive she is to it. At least I know now, in spades, how I managed to not only kill the attraction, but kill it good and dead lol.


If not.. wow am I set up for success on the next try with someone brand new.

In the meantime.. treatment, and more constructive progress are my goals. I actually, have goals for myself again. Nice feeling


I feel.. nonchalant. Carefree. Valuable. Worth it.


And.. if she still blows me off? Who cares?

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Nice to see such positivity!


I too had ever heard of co-dependency, and like you discovered that after a bit reading it highlighted the problems that I had created in the relationship. I had never acted in this way in the past, but was almost relieved to have found something of substance that I could relate to.


I'm all about the self improvement, regaining that control and putting myself back on my pedestal. All clichéd d terms, but its exactly what im working on. Good Luck to you.

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Well, the best advice I can give is to not reward it in any way. Tell her you're not trying to break up with her and like being with her but that her recent messages were a bit of a concern. Then brush it off and move on. Change the subject. Hang out. Don't mention it again. Any time it happens, as best you can, ignore it, and it will happen less. This girl lives for attention, but not the kind she gets all the time, which bores her. Give her attention for things other than her looks and sweetness. Find other attributes and compliment her on them, and do something sweet because of them. Maybe you're impressed by the way she handled a situation; tell her so. Reward or ignore; this is how we change behaviour most effectively.


Yes, I did that, I ignored her very bad messages, and yesterday I wrote that "I had no time for anything, my parents came from far away to meet me and I spend time with them" but she didn't answer.

Lately she was adding a lot of new guys to her facebook.


Her behaviour looks like she simply wants to date many guys who are better looking and younger than me, and also keep me around as a puppy maybe.


She played with me lately, but then again considering her status and how extremely popular she is, it would be hard for her not to do it.


She is first year in university and she feels she wants to have fun and meet many new people.


How do I keep her for me?


Because she wrote those messages just for drama and to justify somehow for herself

why she is dating others.


I would like to keep her somehow...

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Look at some of the most successful male lovers throughout history, in film, in books, among your friends, and you'll see that looks and youth are not the common factor. The guys who have women falling all over them are the ones who can show that they are attracted to and perhaps love their partner but that they KNOW they can take it or leave it because they will be fine anyway . . . and because they know that worrying too much will push them away. Other attributes are necessary to maintain the relationship, but attraction is largely about how we feel about ourselves, not how we look. I'm anything but physically perfect, but I see myself as a whole rather than as the details that could look better, and consequently my physical faults are never even mentioned; it's like they don't even exist.




I'm sorry to hear that and we all know how horrible you must feel right now. But it's happened--the worst thing that could have occurred--and you're still here, the world hasn't ended, you can only go up and up and up from here, and new doors are now about to open. Accept the feelings but don't act on them; it's actually easy when you try, and extremely powerful. ;-)

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After 2 days of no answer from her part, she wrote me today in italian, her favourite language: "Happiness and affection can never be bought by money", she never said in these 4 months that she loves me or she cares for me, so this is just a test, so if I would tell her that I care for her deeply, and then she would say probably "oh it's too late, I want to break up with you" because it is all about a game of power...

(that's only based on my previous experience with similar girl)


She knows that my family is very rich, and she said many times that she chose this university because she wants to have a lot of money, however she is dissapointed maybe that in last 4 months I didn't make any expensive gifts to her??


My biggest guess is that her usual 3 months relationship with a guy are long gone,

and she needs to date others.

She never had more than 3 months relationship with anyone.


How can I change that?


How to answer her message? I know I should be nonchalant, and fun also.


I have been too serious and caring while she was indifferent lately...


And then she was testing with these BS... that I didn't show her affection or that I hurted her, which are so alien to the reality that they are very shocking...

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I would just have to say, serious and caring isn't 'bad' from your point of view, but, I doubt she is looking for any reason to take what you say seriously, and for that single reason alone I think you should take a step back and at how much value you're seeking for yourself in pursuing her, saying nice things, doing nice things. The most counterproductive thing I've ever done in situations like this, is be far too gracious that she bothered to throw you a bone.


Her comment in Italian, is quite true. But there is a greater cost in these sorts of situations that you don't always realize. Your time is valuable, who you are is valuable.. and your investment in dignity and self-esteem, should not be gauged on what she does or does not think or decide. You may think you can "do" something about this situation, or be looking for the perfect reply to touch her heart.. but.. it strikes me she is beginning to pull back, and become emotionally unavailable or even a touch scatterbrained.. doesn't know what she wants.


I don't know if you have the power to realize, being 'nice' or being 'kind' in these situations is your choice.. and sometimes it DOES get to a point you forgot *why* you were acting nice, or friendly.. because the other person isn't doing anything to EARN that gentleman side of you. When is the last time you were shown respect?


Try not to over-examine HER problem.. HER problem is she doesn't see value once the honeymoon phase of relationships are over.. classic Grass is Greener issues. It's a pattern you recognize.


I honestly think the one thing the girl DOESNT know how to deal with is someone respectful, stable, knows what he wants, and isn't afraid to try new things to get something meaningful that lasts. That's where you set your standards.. set your expectations, be firm with yourself about your goals, and your core, and don't budge!


When the dust settles and imminent failure happens continually in her life, you will be someone she looks upon as strong, stable, and unaffected. You will have a very important component of what she eventually will be looking for.


So sit back a bit, relax, be your calm confident self, grow a little, and relax Have fun being you. She'll be looking for that kind of man.. and


Ya never know who else amazing already is.


It's not your problem!

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Might I add, people are going to make decisions all the time based on what's best for their lives. If what is best for them in their judgment, is totally counterproductive to what you want, what are you going to do. Stay paralyzed based on their decisions, and let their decisions hold YOU back, and hurt you?


Nonchalance is the direct result of having enough faith in yourself to realize you are not dependent on anyone else's decisions for your own well being and happiness. You must remember you have the same power that they do. To do what's best for you, and to enjoy your life and be happy. Respect is the end result.. they begin to respect that what you are doing is working for you, and your happiness, and peace of mind is reflected in the way you act and react to them, and to situations around yourself.


No time like the present to realize, no one else, decides what is best for you. I've found it very.. empowering.. not to mention, when you learn about your greatest weaknesses, it's like putting on a giant smile of peace and contentment, inside and out, that is very genuine.. and.. as I said, contagious.


Love the new attitude People are wondering daily, why, for the first time in fifteen or more years, I have genuine happiness and nonchalance towards all situations. Panic mode? gone. Insecurity? Evaporating.


It's genius.

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Thanks Crap. I know what I have to do. It's just hard not to feel so small when I gave it my all and now thinking she's going to actually be a good girlfriend to this guy, once she's learned from me what she wanted in a relationship.


That's all irrelevant though I know, time to push on. It'll get better.

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It does get better, people. It sure as hell does!


Man, i've been so busy the past couple of days. Lots of college work. Ugh!


Still, a wonderful thing (that is completely unrelated to my "situation") happened, almost like a miracle. And it changed my life overnight, just like that!


Right now, my life is wonderful. The only thing, the ONE and ONLY thing that COULD be bothering me right now (we all know what it is!), I just brush off! Lots of positive things to think about right now!


Also, Mike Haggar got officially confirmed for Marvel vs Capcom 3. Been waiting for something like this for almost 15 years. Wow.


The good things in life, even if less in number or even in intensity, are worth living for alone. Do not allow the bad things bring you down! Just brush 'em off like the negative losers they are.

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Thanks Crap. I know what I have to do. It's just hard not to feel so small when I gave it my all and now thinking she's going to actually be a good girlfriend to this guy, once she's learned from me what she wanted in a relationship.


That's all irrelevant though I know, time to push on. It'll get better.


But YOU will be a better boyfriend because of what you've learned from being with her. It's a two way street. It's Life. We learn and grow so don't fault her for that. Accept it and focus on your learning and your growing because it's the only thing YOU can control, and sine it has everything to do with your own happiness, it's all you should worry about right now. Don't worry about what she's doing, who she's doing it with, or why, or why not with you, etc. You're doing fine, stay strong.

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Just a quick response, but wanted to say, when you don't know how to respond to something that someone says or does, then do nothing. It works. Pretend it didn't happen. Then whatever you do will work because you're simply ignoring the testing comments, showing you're better than that, and demonstrating the ability to lead them away from argument.

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