First post: Familiar (or not) situation.

[Barcode]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post, and yes, the situation is a familiar one most of us will have experience (read: does she like me?), but as always, there are complications (or I wouldn't have found my way here). I'm not going to post identifying details for obvious reasons, but I'll outline the situation. Here we go.

 

I'm a PhD student and last year, a new lecturer joined our department (you see where this is going). To my knowledge, there are no explicit rules about student/staff relationships, and it's expected that people will be mature and discreet - I gather attitudes are slightly more relaxed here in the U.K. The good news is that she is not involved with me academically at all - or I would not be considering this.

 

Now, when I met her, I suspected she was gay (or bi). It's hard to explain, but as we all know, intuitions can prove unreliable. The PhD students socialize for drinks regularly, and she usually turns up. Rather than try to explain everything, it's probably easier to list things for simplicity:

 

(1) There has been eye contact, positive body language.

(2) She has told me personal information about her life, family etc - that the rest of the group do not know about.

(3) When I told her I was gay (I didn't make a big deal out of it, just talked about relationships in general) she asked: Have you always known you were gay? Have you ever experienced discrimination? I don't know if a straight person would normally ask those questions.

(4) When the group was asking one another questions, one was: Would you like a family? When it got to her - she rapidly said no (on its own this is not suspect, it's when you put the whole picture together that I begin to wonder).

(5) She's always asking me if I'm going to such-and-such a talk/seminar etc.

 

 

Now, here is the very big negative:

 

(6) She had a long-term relationship with a man. I think it was her only relationship infact. Now, I realize it's possible to be confused, and I thought it very inappropriate to ask why they broke up. I can hardly say: Are you gay now (!!!?!!?!).

 

Further, there might be professional concerns as she is new to the job, likely wants to make a good impression etc, and out of respect for her, I do not want to do anything that would make her feel uncomfortable/compromised. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact I'm quite attracted to her. Other people (not knowing I like her) have also commented that they think she is gay or bi.

 

So, the plan is this: Continue to get to know her in a group situation, figuring more information will eventually be revealed - it's just difficult to have a one-one conversation in a large group, which is obviously needed for something like this. Now, whilst she is sociable with us, I'd feel odd asking her for coffee and she might interpret it as something more creating a potentially embarrassing situation.

 

On one hand, I think I should forget it. On the other, we are both mature adults, and it should be nobody else's business. Not sure how to go forward with this: I do think that it's the situation and not her which is the biggest problem, i.e., I'd have flirted and found out about things more easily in a non-academic context.

 

Bit baffled really.

[pianoguy]

I guess I don't see anything in what you've listed to me that indicates that she's gay. In fact, #3 on your list (where she was drilling you with questions) seems to me to indicate that she's straight. Smart straight people are usually curious about these kinds of things- I remember when I first came out I would sometimes have to submit to long interviews (So, what's it like being gay????), even at parties. Gay people usually aren't interested in these things, at least not initially.

 

Also, it seems to me like you are both in a fairly accepting environment and there shouldn't be any reason for her to be closeted.

 

I'd just plain ask her... maybe you can find a clever way to word it (Could you ever see yourself with a woman?) that will make it less awkward. It's so hard to be sure about these things.

 

Have you checked her facebook? Does she have facebook?

[melrich]

(1) There has been eye contact, positive body language.

(2) She has told me personal information about her life, family etc - that the rest of the group do not know about.

(3) When I told her I was gay (I didn't make a big deal out of it, just talked about relationships in general) she asked: Have you always known you were gay? Have you ever experienced discrimination? I don't know if a straight person would normally ask those questions.

(4) When the group was asking one another questions, one was: Would you like a family? When it got to her - she rapidly said no (on its own this is not suspect, it's when you put the whole picture together that I begin to wonder).

(5) She's always asking me if I'm going to such-and-such a talk/seminar etc.

 

I agree with Pianoguy, I don't see anything here that even remotely suggests she is gay. Maybe there is a vibe she gives off in real life that we can't assess but what you have listed above....I'm not sure how you are getting to the conclusion.

[Barcode]

Sorry, it's slightly more subtle. My gaydar is usually accurate - I don't know if it's dress/mannerisms/body-language or whatever. I do know that the few times I've been interested in somebody (and I don't necessarily mean sexually) they have turned out to be gay/bi. Of course, intuitions are fallible.

 

Others have picked up on it too (not that I like her, but that they suspect her of being gay/bi).

 

Not sure about the questions - I've not encountered anything like that from a straight person before.

 

I wish I could articulate this better: I've just never had a straight women do things like stand next to me, make direct eye contact to the point I look away, and when I look back, she's still looking, smiling, and things like light touches on the arm etc. Now, this could be a friendly thing for all I know - she does seem more extroverted than me. Think more observation is required here.

 

I can see why a staff member might initially be reticient - fact is, students do gossip, and I doubt many want to be known as the gay one, or to be seen becoming too close to students. Although the situation with postgrads is slightly different in that the boundaries are less blurred.

 

Oh yes, she once asked me about lesbian sex (yes seriously) prior to knowing I was gay. It was an apparently off the cuff remark: So, x has been asking me about lesbian sex, what do you think? (bizarre exchange on a night out). Of all the questions to be asked, that struck me as odd.

 

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility; but it is challenging. The first step will be to find out what she is, and proceed from there.

[Barcode]

Oh, her facebook is blocked from non-friends, and I don't think it's appropriate at this stage to add her as a friend (although I'm facebook friends with some of the other staff -so it shouldn't appear too strange). I'd rather wait until we've spoken a bit more before I do that.

 

The reason I found the disclosure of personal information interesting is that others have commented that she is not very warm to the group, and has a habit of asking others questions so as to deflect attention away from herself. On it's own, it's not terribly significant, it's more interesting when I start adding everything up - and yes, possibly coming to the wrong conclusion.

[pianoguy]

From my standpoint it looks to me as though you are looking for signs that she's interested because YOU are interested. However, if you trust your gaydar, then proceed.

 

Out of curiosity, how do you plan to find out... would it just be asking outright?

[aquatic]

Hello, Barcode.

 

Maybe when you guys go drinking and are having a good convo (particularly between you two) you can joke and say "Aw, you're so fun to be with, what a shame you're straight!" or something like that. If she's gay, she'll either correct you, or, as the "seed" has been planted, she'll know you can be interested so ball's in her court. If she's not gay, then no harm, no foul. Since she doesn't seem homophobic and is an extrovert, doesn't seem she'll take offense, so win-win. Good luck!

[Lucy__lou]

I like aquatic's advice. I think it puts you in a strong position if you can communicate to someone that you're attracted to them without them feeling like they're under pressure to return the feeling. Show's that you're strong, and it gives them time to process and act in their own time.

 

Personally, I think by what you've posted that she sounds curious about the homo world, but by her questions it sounds like she doesn't yet identify as bi or lesbian. So even if she has the potential in her, she's not consciously there yet. But there's always a first.

[Barcode]

Acquatic: I think that's good advice. It saves any embarrassment too as it will appear a normal part of the conversation if she says she is straight, i.e., laugh about it, move on.

 

PianoGuy: Yes, that thought has occurred to me. I'm quite introverted and would never randomly touch people, and making eye contact is a big deal; but for some, they will network to the extent their behaviour might be misconstrued as flirting.

 

I wouldn't ask her outright - that seems intrusive. From what I (and the group) know of her, she's not forthcoming with personal details. She'll play along with people, but there is definitely a barrier of some sort there - could be personal issues, could be that she is new to the job and getting to know people takes time, but whatever.

 

It's not something I'm going to push - it's just difficult when I see her and seem to have no control over my reactions (!!!).

 

There is a risk I'm inventing things inside my head. However, one of my good friends who is more tuned into people than I am said to me (after we had to go and see her about something): You do realize she ignored me for half hour and kept being flirtatious with you. So, it's not just me that has picked up on her behaviour, demeanour etc.

 

I do think that it's rarely a good idea to push people into something before they are consciously ready, and confronting them will likely have the opposite effect. The good thing is that I'm in a position to slowly get to know her non-academically, so things should proceed naturally if there is anything there.

[pianoguy]

Well, I think you are being very sensible about all this! I really like aquatic's suggestion... perhaps I will try that myself if the occasion arises.

 

Do keep us posted! I'm interested to hear what develops.