I have no idea how the whole dating thing works...

[DMG]

OK, basically this is the same old problem as a lot of other people have posted on this forum. With a few slight differences. I'll describe the whole situation just to make things clear.

 

First of all, I'm 23 and I've never dated anyone, kissed anyone, held hands with anyone, or anything. I have been hugged precisely once, pretty much at random. So, I'm not used to physical contact.

 

I'm also extremely shy to the point where my parents think I have asperger's syndrome. For anyone who doesn't know, it basically means I'm crap at communicating with people and tend to avoid eye contact. Ironically these days I think I make too much eye contact. I've been known to glance at people at random and have them look right back at me. Scared the crap out of me a few times.

 

So, that's me. Also bear in mind that I'm a bit old fashioned. If a girl starts talking about something perverted (Yes, it's happened. They were asking the guys at work if they'd had sex) I get extremely embarrassed. I'm sure I blushed on that occasion. Even when guys talk about such things I just tend to go quiet. And I really do not like it when guys talk about girls as sex objects. That's not at all what I'm after. Seems pretty wrong to me if that's what you're in a relationship for.

 

What I'm looking for is a proper relationship, someone to actually care for, and to be cared about for once. To my knowledge noone really has up till now. Not even my parents showed much affection in my living memory.

 

So, that's my background. My current situation is that I like a girl at my workplace. She's not my superior, so there's no ethical problem. She's also in a different department which would help avoid awkwardness if things went wrong. But it's also a problem since I don't get to see her much.

 

Now, I work in a science lab. And it's in a pretty innaccessible place in the middle of a housing block. So that makes it hard to ask a girl out to coffee or anything like that. Thus making my options more awkward. Also, we get a pretty short lunch break and tea breaks. 30 mins for lunch and 10 mins twice a day respectively. That means its hard to talk to said girl much.

 

My first issue with this girl is, I can't quite put my finger on what I like about her, yet I seem to be pretty smitten in a way. It's likely just a long lasting crush, but I don't really know for sure. Ok, one obvious thing is that she's extremely attractive. She's also quite a nice person so far as I can tell, and she's fun to talk to... when I can think of something to talk about, which is a problem. But if you asked me to state specifics, I'd be doomed.

 

Secondly, as I mentioned, I suck at making conversation. When I have something to talk about, I'm not too bad, but I find it hard to think of a subject. I'm a listener, not a talker. I hear girls tend to like that in a guy, but I haven't seen evidence of it as yet. So I tend to rely on other people thinking of something to talk about first. The girl I like used to say "hi" or "how are you" a lot, and did talk to me in the past. The problem is I was so shy I found it hard to say much back. I've been trying to recently. But also recently, she's gone a bit quiet. Tends to stare at the floor in a rather mournful way during tea breaks, and doesn't talk much unless spoken to. She's been like that for a week or two. I managed to ask if she was alright since she looked a bit down. She said she was fine. I'm sure she isn't entirely, though. Could just be sick of working at that place and tired. I know I sure am.

 

Thirdly, I would like to get to know her better, but like I said, we don't get much time to talk, and her not really responding much doesn't help. Asking her out somewhere would be a good idea, I know, but to what? I'm not really into many things. I don't drink to any real degree, I'm a fussy eater, and I don't like nightclubs or modern music. She seems to play video games, and I am a gaming nut, but I really don't think that's much of an option. Not now at least. I doubt anyone's idea of a good first date is "Want to come to my place to get your ass kicked at Goldeneye?"

The cinema is a possibility, but is that a valid choice for a first time? And even if it is, it seems a bit wrong to ask her when she'd have to make her own way to either my town or the other cinema in a nearby town. Either by driving or the train. I don't have my own car, you see. Doesn't seem right to ask someone out if they have to make their own transport plans, somehow.

 

Also, how SHOULD I ask her out to something, if I do? I don't have a clue how to word it. I'll probably end up freezing up and screwing up royally, knowing me.

 

There's more to bear in mind. I gave her a gift at the office christmas party. Just a burned image of a couple of video games, one which I knew she'd said she wanted to play, (and one that's insanely rare). I couldn't find proper copies... Still, I think that must have given her a clue that I liked her, right?

She basically said "Aw, but why?" when I said I had a present to give her.

 

Predictably, I froze up and stammered something like "you'll see when you open it". She did so and said "Aww, I won't want to leave the house now."

Then I kinda got freaked out with nervousness and backed off since I had no idea what to say. Epic failure.

 

Now, I'm not sure what she thinks of me. Some guys at work say she likes me, but can't really give any evidence apart from one occasion where one guy asked her if she liked me and she said yes. Or so he claimed. Seems the actual wording was more like "What do you think of Dennis?" That being me.

And she said something along the lines of "He's alright, seems like a nice guy". That was quite some time ago. Now, that wording to me doesnt neccessarily mean she'd like me in THAT way...

 

For all I know she might just find me creepy. I think I overheard her saying to someone that I did creep her out by turning around whenever she walked past. That was back when I first started liking her. I don't do that so much now, and she kept saying "Hi" and "how are you" for ages after that. And to be fair she creeped ME out by asking me that question about whether I'd had sex. Yes, it was her who asked it. Asked another guy in the lab first, so it's not me being singled out with dodgy questions.

 

I'm just pretty confused about the whole thing. I don't know where I am on the scale of creeping her out to being actually liked.

 

So. Basically my question to everyone here is, what do you think in general, and more specifically, how do I tell what she thinks of me? I'd rather not make a total fool of myself by asking her out without having a clue. Is there body language to look for, for example?

 

The her going quiet thing bothers me. The guys I work with seem to think there's a small chance it could be related to me. Somehow I doubt it, but still, they have a point. You never know.

 

Help! I suck at understanding women!

[leo_s84]

I'd rather not make a total fool of myself by asking her out without having a clue.

 

Thats why you haven't been on a date, nor kissed, etc. No pain no gain my friend, you gotta take some risks before you get what you want, even if it means "making a fool of yourself" sometimes.

[Honey Pumpkin]

Could you ask her out for coffee after work at somewhere near where you are? That doesn't sound like it's too hard. Or maybe you could ask her if she played the games that you gave her, and how she got on with them?

 

I KNOW it's hard, and it doesn't seem easy. But honestly, the rewards that you get for putting yourself out there are huge. I would give it a go.

 

I think you sound quite down on yourself, and don't really value all that you ahve to offer. It strikes me that in your post you have a LOT going for you. You've got a great job, you're obviously articulate and thoughtful and have great self-awareness and analytical skills. I enjoyed reading your post, and thought you seemed like a really nice guy, but too hard on yourself.

 

Maybe try other things as well, so it's not all about this - joining clubs, taking up sport, volunteering; make 2008 the year that you take risks and put yourself out there socially, and accept EVERY invitation that comes your way. If you have a lot going on, you can talk about that. Honestly, you have a lot to offer and it seems a shame that you are so down on yourself.

 

And definitely try asking her out...I think she may say yes, you know!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Honey Pumpkin has some great advice and insights. I agree, just ask her for coffee...the worst she could say is no...but that shouldn't be the end of the world. It sounds to me like she might like you so I would imagine the answer would be yes..then see how things progress. You are overthinking yourself into inaction. Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there.

[ilovepoemsalot]

How is talking about sex perverted?

[DMG]

Well, not exactly perverted, per se. It's just, the last thing I expect to hear in the middle of an analytical laboratory is the words "Have you eaten * * * * * ?"

And I certainly wouldn't ask someone that myself...

 

You're right about thinking myself into inaction. I should ask her out to something. Still, are there any specific things to keep an eye out for, to be a little more sure I have a chance? You know, common signs of liking someone? I'm sure there are some, I just don't know what they are.

 

Unfortunately the "great job" isn't so great. I'm a lowly technician with crappy pay. I have a degree and all, I just haven't got a decent job with it yet. The girl on the other hand, despite doing the same job as me once, has a First degree and does something better paid nowadays. That said, that shouldn't really affect anything, so don't worry about that.

 

The problem is, I do look down on myself, as you say. If you asked me to come up with good things about myself, I can't think of many. OK, so I have a degree, I have an IQ of something like 130 at last reckoning, and I know I'm a fairly decent guy. But other than those? On the negative side I'm nervous to the point where talking takes a serious effort. I'm pretty boring by modern standards. (I mean, I don't talk about sports or the latest music because they just don't interest me. Instead, I talk about video games, which is probably a pretty tiresome subject for a lot of people.)

 

You say accept invitations. The thing is, people don't give me invitations. There must be a reason for that, but I'm not sure what it is.

 

I tend to be pretty quiet most of the time. When I'm not quiet I tend to make an idiot of myself, which is why I prefer not to talk too much.

 

I am pretty caring when you get to know me, but I think that might possibly count against me since it makes me act "creepy".

 

Asking if she's played the games is a good idea, but unfortunately I already tried that and she said she's been too busy to play them so far. Probably just bad luck on my part there. I'll try to talk to her more, I suppose. But I really wish I could read whatever signs might be there. Any tips about that?

[leo_s84]

Hmm..signs..

 

- She laughs at your comments even if they're not that funny

 

- When she's talking with you her toes are pointed at you

 

- She touches her hair, crosses her legs, while talking to you

 

- She touches you (shoulder, pat, etc)

 

- Makes eye contact with you and when you look at her she looks DOWN (this is important)

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Hard to say about signs, because it varies from person to person...usually you can get a gut feeling by the way they look at you and how they interact with you. I would suggest, however, that you just ask her out and forget about trying to read signs. If you spend too much time trying to figure things out, by the time you do, someone else might beat you to it. You snooze you lose. Just go for it.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Hmm..signs..

 

- She laughs at your comments even if they're not that funny

 

- When she's talking with you her toes are pointed at you

 

- She touches her hair, crosses her legs, while talking to you

- She touches you (shoulder, pat, etc)

- Makes eye contact with you and when you look at her she looks DOWN (this is important)

 

 

Not all women do that kind of s**t..that's just the cliché. As for looking down, that would be someone who is shy...anybody who is not shy and looks down when there is eye contact, is just playing clichéd coquettish games. If you are a shy guy, you would be better with a woman who is not into these stupid schoolgirl games of twirling hair, batting eyelashes etc. It sounds like the person you are interested in might be more laid back and less flirty and coquettish....all the more reason for you to just put yourself out there.

[leo_s84]

Not all women do that kind of s**t..that's just the cliché. As for looking down, that would be someone who is shy...anybody who is not shy and looks down when there is eye contact, is just playing clichéd coquettish games. If you are a shy guy, you would be better with a woman who is not into these stupid schoolgirl games of twirling hair, batting eyelashes etc. It sounds like the person you are interested in might be more laid back and less flirty and coquettish....all the more reason for you to just put yourself out there.

 

It's not cliche at all, it's all on a subconscious level, i've seen it....

[iwishiknew]

First of all, I'm 23 and I've never dated anyone, kissed anyone, held hands with anyone, or anything.

 

I am in the same shoes as you. I am 29 and just like you I have not dated a girl yet. I have been trying to figure out what my problem is but I do not find any solutions at all. Besides being short (5'3) and I have below average looks, which do not help at all. I dress nicely, I am very nice and friendly and very athletic but still nothing. I do have confidence, I can talk to any girl that I want to but I can see in her eyes she is not interested in me at all. I have always thought that online dating would work for a guy like me but after doing it for 9 yrs, no succes at all. I am almost 30 and I do not know what to do anymore? I am running out of options and I would like to go out with a few girls before I become old and die.

[Unmotivated]

From what you've said it sounds like she sees you as just a coworker at this point; her actions don't seem to convey attraction. However, I don't think that you should give up. This is an excellent opportunity for you to practice your social skills. Talk to her each break, and make it your mission to make the time fun and enjoyable for her. Try to think of some interesting topics ahead of time. Make jokes and tease her about things. Most of all, just experiment. The worst that could happen is that she might get annoyed with you talking to her all the time, and even then what have you lost?

 

The point of all that is that if you can convey that you are a fun and interesting guy, she has a reason to go out on a date with you: you intrigue her and she'd like to get to know you better. This also gives you justification for asking her on a date--You can say something like, "I think we have a fun time together. How about we get some coffee this weekend so we can get to know each other better?" She can reject the lunch idea, but she can't deny that she enjoyed talking to you in the past.

[DMG]

I'm thinking Unmotivated's point of view sounds most likely here. I will continue to try to get to know her, but yeah, I agree. Seems to me there might be a possible chance but I don't think she actually LIKES me, all things considered.

 

Today was a bit of a bad point. I said hi and got ignored. Could be I just didn't say it loud enough or she didnt notice or something. We'll see what happens later this week I guess. apparently it's not just me who thinks she's a lot less talkative these days. Strange...

[amethyst exchange]

OK, basically this is the same old problem as a lot of other people have posted on this forum. With a few slight differences. I'll describe the whole situation just to make things clear.

 

First of all, I'm 23 and I've never dated anyone, kissed anyone, held hands with anyone, or anything. I have been hugged precisely once, pretty much at random. So, I'm not used to physical contact.

 

I'm in the same boat as you. I have basically been physically alone for...well ever. I've never been on a date, or dated, never even asked someone. When I was in college, I locked myself in my room and shut the world out because...I didn't know how to do anything. I always figured no one would ever find me attractive so I just sort of just never even tried. And now...well, I've asked one person to go out with me and hoped and wished and prayed that she'd say no...because after I asked her, I realized that....I had no idea what to do with her if she did say yes. I don't drink, I don't care for coffee, I don't go to bars (Because I don't drink and would rather not start or be associated with ones that tend to like to drink and get drunk). I don't know anyone, I hate crowds and parties, which leaves a walk along the lake shore but that gets old after awhile and well...feels like a bit of a cop-out (never mind financial issues).

[Unmotivated]

And now...well, I've asked one person to go out with me and hoped and wished and prayed that she'd say no...because after I asked her, I realized that....I had no idea what to do with her if she did say yes.

 

So did she decline?

 

I don't drink, I don't care for coffee, I don't go to bars (Because I don't drink and would rather not start or be associated with ones that tend to like to drink and get drunk). I don't know anyone, I hate crowds and parties, which leaves a walk along the lake shore but that gets old after awhile and well...feels like a bit of a cop-out (never mind financial issues).

 

There's nothing wrong with this. Although, I think you might benefit from going to a bar or a party once in a while just to experience a different side of life. But there are plenty of girls out there who aren't into parties and getting drunk all the time. Why can't you just take a girl to lunch or dinner, or to go out and see a movie? You could also do something more active like bowling or miniature golf or something.

 

I don't know anyone

 

Are you saying that you don't have any real friends right now? If so, is this something that bothers you? I'm of the opinion that a guy should be satisfied with other aspects of his life before trying to go out and find a relationship. Maybe you could meet some cool people if you joined some clubs or something like that.

[amethyst exchange]

So did she decline?

 

 

Well, in a sort of...by default...yeah. I realized how...I didn't have an single idea of what the hell I was doing, I kind of...never followed through with it...

 

 

There's nothing wrong with this. Although, I think you might benefit from going to a bar or a party once in a while just to experience a different side of life. But there are plenty of girls out there who aren't into parties and getting drunk all the time. Why can't you just take a girl to lunch or dinner, or to go out and see a movie? You could also do something more active like bowling or miniature golf or something.

 

Where I was at, mini-golf is sort of not an option, as it A: doesn't exist here and B: it's winter and snow covers all the little holes on the windmills. As to bowling...I kind of bowled for a while and I have a tic' about people doing it...wrong...and there needn't have any of that coming out right away. Movies offer no chance to get to know one another since you're sitting in front of a big distracting screen where you're not allowed to talk (not to mention the unimaginative cliched-ness of it). Dinners produce too much stress in that you've invested a bit into it and offers no easy out if things go badly...

 

I've been to a party. I hid in the corner and...then after awhile...(read choked down the beer shoved in my hands) I slipped away, because there was no use in me being there, nothing was happening other than stupid drinking games...I get more done doing nothing than what was going on there.

 

 

 

Are you saying that you don't have any real friends right now? If so, is this something that bothers you? I'm of the opinion that a guy should be satisfied with other aspects of his life before trying to go out and find a relationship. Maybe you could meet some cool people if you joined some clubs or something like that.

 

I have never had any real friends....ever. People who think they are my friends...don't really know me....so they don't count. And people who really get to know me...would rather not...

 

The problem is that my problems are a constant cache 22. I'm insecure and depressed and anxious all the time because I've never been in any kind of real interpersonal relationships, but I have to fix my freaking depression and anxiety and insecurities before I can even get a relationship.

 

I tried clubs here but none of them offered something I wanted, or interested me, and the one that I was interested in was chronically uninterested in doing anything other than hold meaninglessly bureaucratic meetings about what their theme should be for the year.

[Brightest Dark]

Hmm..signs..

 

 

- When she's talking with you her toes are pointed at you

 

- She touches her hair, crosses her legs, while talking to you

 

- She touches you (shoulder, pat, etc)

 

- Makes eye contact with you and when you look at her she looks DOWN (this is important)

 

I would say this is a load of crap. No offence but I am sure most of us touch our hair or have our toes pointed to anyone we talk to. It means nothing. You say it's on a subconscious level - well, if it's THAT subconscious that we don't even know we're doing it, it doesn't really matter. What OP needs is signs that the girl knows she likes him - not signs she doesn't even know she's making. I think OP needs to talk to the girl more. That is the only way to feel more relaxed. The more you talk to someone the easier it will become. Then eventually you could ask her to meet for a coffee or something. Or how about seeing if she's on one of the social networking sites and adding her there and then communicating via email through the site. I find (through being shy) that once I've chatted by email with someone a lot then I can talk to them easier in person.

[Madoc]

Looks like all three of us are on the same boat.

 

iam 21 and haven't been with a woman yet ever! maybe one mockup date in mylife.

 

What really kills me is there's women all around me, they are my friends, extc...extc...extc... so there is no exuse there but it just seems like iam not gifted to have it I don't understand it I have tryed everything and anything but nothing just seems to work. I try not to my solution is try not to think about women, sex or love, anything like that which is next to impossible.

[Raize]

What really kills me is there's women all around me, they are my friends, extc...extc...extc... so there is no exuse there but it just seems like iam not gifted to have it I don't understand it I have tryed everything and anything but nothing just seems to work. I try not to my solution is try not to think about women, sex or love, anything like that which is next to impossible.

 

I totally know what you mean. As difficult as it is to ponder what I have been missing out on with love & intimacy etc - I find it even worse when I have just crossed paths with one or more attractive women that day just gone by... That is when I realise even *more* clearly what I am missing out on! ](*,)

 

The only time I meet women on a regular basis is with my job, as customers (I work in retail). I don't meet that many at all socially, but I am not about to use my serving the gorgeous lady here and there as a form of speed dating lol.

 

If there was a particular girl that I served and spoke to on a regular basis maybe then I would pluck the courage to ask her out, but I am not about to say to a lady I have served just that one time... "That's 15.30 change. Hey, wanna go out some time?"

[amethyst exchange]

That's me. Furthermore, it just seems like I'm only attracted to people who would never ever ever go for me (either because they can't or just wouldn't). And if a person were to start hitting on me, (totally unlikely) I'd push them away. It's kind of summed up in this quote: "And thus my love will end the moment it begins...I only live for that split second of happiness. It is exciting because it is a fight I cannot win."

 

 

I have massive trust issues with anyone that treats me nicely or acts like they care about me (to the point of me feeling rather icky about being loved or cared for and thusly sometimes I wish that people wouldn't). I however, wish I had someone to throw my affection at (I want to love but not be loved). I wish I had someone that I could have an experience with, I wish I understood this fascination I have with....these feelings I can't even comprehend. I largely wish I could do something more constructive with all these impulses to be intimate with other people...

 

And then I have the total total opposite. This emotion, or personality facet, that's frantically trying to keep the pandora's box sealed. This personality that locks up all those feelings and urges. I'm split against myself.

 

I don't even want to be happy because I'm afraid I'll get attached and addicted to the feeling. So many days I just wish I didn't feel anything.