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Ok, for those of you who don't know, my ex broke up with me back in november. He just didn't feel the same way anymore. Were both gay, to clear up any confusion. We were together 4 years. I tried to move on and went NC for 2 months, until he contacted me 3 weeks ago, he seemed to be interested in catching up as friends. This was when I lost the NC battle and went back to square one...


Yesterday was the ex's birthday. For the first time since november, we decided to go out. So me and his bestfriend took him out to dinner. It was great, I thought there might be a chance for reconciliation. I saw him checking me out several times!


I got home, and we chatted on YM. Soon it became clear that he didn't want to get back with me. He said that even though he was attracted to me tonight, he made a promise to himself to never get back together, because we've been broken up so many times before. I quietly accepted this fact and we talked some more. I told him I really tried to make myself 'like' other people so I can move on. He wanted me to find a guy who would make me happy, because he's been nothing but a rollercoaster ride. We were talking freely, about everything. It was liberating. UNTIL...


He became too honest with some things. First he said he was really liking this co-worker but he was straight. I've always wondered if this co-worker was the reason why he lost attraction for me in the first place. He denied it. I still have my doubts.


Then the conversation that followed, caught me off guard, and just left me feeling like puking. I will summarize it here:


OZ: I'm messed up for liking a straight guy. What's even more weird is... what I did the other day.


me: what was it?


OZ: I'm retarded. There was this girl I chatted with one day. Horny girl. I thought I should go have sex with her and see how it feels.


me: OMG, where did you meet?


OZ: No, I didn't meet with her, just chatted.


me: yeah but where online?


OZ: whats that one place you used to hate me doing before we first met?


me: Webcamming? (this is like a sick thing where people pleasure

themselves in front of a webcam, ughh and they watch its other. sick sick sick. OZ admitted to doing this before we started dating but stopped altogether because I dissaproved of it. I thought I cured him of this sick venture in the 4 years we were together, but I guess not)


OZ you'll start hating me.


me: I wish you wouldn't go to these places. The more you associate with people like that, the more you will become like them.


OZ: I don't w**** around.


me: I worry about you I know its not my place anymore.


OZ: Its ok, just tell me what you have to tell me. But anyway, this girl, she looked good in the pic, and wanted to bad to meet me and thought I was cute. So I thought, I wonder what it would feel like.


me: I think I'm gonna be sick hearing about this. Sorry. I can't listen to this.


OZ: But anyway, I thought about it for a second, just to see what it would be like. Cause Janet and Araceli are always asking me why I just don't try it. LOL.


OZ: I wasn't attracted to her at all. It was just a thought because of what Janet and Araceli always tell me.


me: I guess you're telling me this so I'll stop bothering you already.


OZ: No! No! No! I'm sorry, I thought the girl didn't count and I could safely tell you. I'm sorry, I'll shut up.


me: Its not just that. But the webcamming and everything. i thought maybe I changed something in you.


OZ: I just thought the girl thing was funny.


me: I'm gonna go. Just be happy, OZ. I want you to take care of yourself and don't do things that might hurt you. I really worry about you.


OZ: So, no more friends cause the camming thing?


me: no, no, I'm just gonna go for tonight. I'm gonna go to sleep. (really I was about to throw up, I was shaking massively).


OZ: Sorry, honestly, I didn't think it would bother you that much. I mean I know you don't like it but I didn't think it was that bad. Sorry.


me: No need to apologize. Its not my place anymore. Goodnight.


OZ: Goodnight, thanks for tonight.






I know, I deserve this. I should have not responded to his email 3 weeks ago. I should have just kept living in my miserable NC existence. I should have kept my distance. I am hurting so bad right now. The person I thought I changed in the 4 years I spent with him, is now corrupting himself again. Is he having some kind of identity crisis? He is gay for sure, I know that for a fact... but that thing with the girl, I don't understand!~!!!!!!!!


I want to protect him, but I can't even protect myself. I feel so lost and so defeated. And the sad part is, after waking up this morning, my first thought was of him and my first emotion was love. Is he just playing with me? Toying with my emotions? he seemed really concerned about losing me as a friend. We were having such an honest conversation but I bailed out on him because I couldn't take all that information in! I feel like I punished him for opening up to me.


I'm so tired, I want to just give up on everything...

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So you are responsible for being his caretaker? Who put you up to that job? Yourself maybe?


The whole time you seemed to be interested in manipulating him by telling him hes bad (shaming him) and then telling him to be safe and you worry about him (indicating he cant live and get through life without you).


No wonder your relationship is messed with this guy. As I said before in the other post you both create this drama.

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Your doing the best you can, we are all just trying to make it through the night on here. Don't worry that you read those emails, I screwed up the same many times and came out fine. Things are hard right now for you but you'll get better. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can change someone, it's one of the biggest wastes of time ever. You can waste your whole life trying to change someone, but if they don't want to change than it's not going to happen. We are who we are, and really, you shouldn't try and make someone your cookie cutter perfect partner. Take people the way they are or just don't get involved with them.


Hope you feel better soon.

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II hope you dont think about last night's convo with OZ in terms of success or failure but focus on the fact that it's high time you move on with your life and focus on getting your life back on track.




I totally agree with Ellie on this.


As I have posted in previous threads, continued contact will only delay the healing process and set you back. There is nothing but heartache to be gained by this.


To quote a famous song, "you gotta know when to fold them. You gotta know when to walk away and know when to run".


I think that time has commeth.

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Well my dear, it's important to remember that you can never ever "cure someone of his own self". And what he says about "being concerned about losing you as a friend" is all about HIM, HE's ego, HIS needs, HIS curiosity, HIS selfish manipulative icky self.


Why oh why do you keep confusing who you "hoped and thought he could be" with who "he really is" ??? There is a huge difference here, you loved and still have love for who you "hoped he could be" but that is a far cry from who he "chooses to be".


No matter how many times you peel this onion you'll get another layer of onion.


It's not about him being attracted to girls now, or the behavior of using a webcam for this unhealthy practice, it's that he CHOOSES to do these things, he CHOOSES the behavior, and he has no concern for the CONSEQUENCE of how it might affect others who care for him.. so that is WHO HE IS, and it's not something to be respected or admired..it's a clear sign that FATE is nudging you, pushing you to SEE HIM CLEARLY AND HONESTLY and to let go and love yourself.


Stop taking anything he does or says so personally because none of his behavior or words have anything to do with you, or anyone else but himself.


You handled the call with him honestlly, and in a good healthy manner, it made you physically ill to hear about his "adventures".. so trust that instincts, and stop pressing it down and choosing to then obsess on your "feelings'.. start to focus on the "facts" about his guy and the behavior HE CHOOSES.. it's a direct reflection on HIS lack of character and it's not about you....


Start thinking about yourself, conjure up your self respect, your courage, start to feel empowered by the FACT that YOU are NOT interested in any guy who chooses HIS type of behavior or attitude.. because the FACT is that no matter what "feelings" you are hanging on to, he does NOT share the same values and standards.. he is NOT leaving you, YOU are leaving who he REALLY IS..


He is not emotionally responsible enough or self respecting enough to be in a fulfilling respectful relaitonship...because if he were to committ and honestly be with someone of your respect, then he would have to really look at himself and want to change for HIMSELF, and do the difficult self work involved to choose to become a man who is worthy of a committed loyal respectful love.


Right now no matter what "feelings' you have for him, the "fact" remains that he is NOT capable of being the man you "hoped" he could be.. he does NOT CHOOSE to be that guy.. that is HIS problem and now it's your realization so you can accept that all the dreams and hopes you attached to him are really YOURS.. and you take them with you on your own life journey to seek and attract a love who does share you values and standards.. and who is not your "emotional project'.. yuk,


never ever make someone else your "project" to fix up, or to "cure".. ugh..that never works... use that energy to work on your own issues and ask yourself WHY YOU ARE GIVING SO MUCH ENERGY to this uncommitted, immature, non-respecting guy?


Walk away, no more need to reply to any of his lame contact, and no reason to initiate any contact, he was a "lesson" so you can learn more about yourself, not about what HE needs, but more about who YOU are and what YOU value, and how much YOU can love, and you now can feel empowered, wiser, and can CHOOSE to let go, and grow past this... say to yourself outloud: ENOUGH.. it's time for ME to work on myself, and to celebrate my independence and self respect.. his loss, my gain.


This is not about "you failed' this is about you "discovering" and "accpeting" and finally noticing that YOU count in all this, and that you need to work on you and let go and move on... that is why your conversation with him is FATE's way of pushing towards personal SUCCESS, not failure.. because now it's all about "acceptance' and letting go.... no "failed" just "discovery and personal heartfelt self respecting success".. this is your "gift" from the heartache.. so now CHOOSE to embrace it and let go.. and the most amazing things and people will be attracted into YOUR life.

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Tyler: I don't know why you insist in following me all over the boards. I already told you not to waste any more of your time because I do not appreciate your combative behaviour. There is a difference between constructive posts and the posts you have made here and my other threads simply to ATTACK. I don't need your opinions, all of the ones you've made so far are just way off. They're doing nothing for me, so go ahead and type up all your precious thoughts on other people's threads. Pound on those keys till your fingers bleed, you seem to take great pleasure in kicking people while they're down. HOw admirable.



I just thought I'd update this thread. Thanks, Ellie, Blender and Cristal for the advice. I've decided to go no contact once again. I'm still grieving, but what else can I do? He seemed interested in preserving our friendship, but I looked deeper into it.


I would like to go on and on about how much pain I've been going through the past few days, but it feels like ENA has become a hunting ground for trolls. There are too many people on ENA who also openly criticize people for their sexual orientation. That comment goes to THEKID55. I've seen your other comments on other threads. I've never lashed out in boards before, but when you're already backed up in a corner and already going through stuff, what else can you do.


I don't feel like making my emotions vulnerable for people to prey on. God knows, I've suffered enough in this break up.


My *best* wishes to the trolls in the board. /sarcasm off

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Try to remember that a healthy friendship is based on SHARED values and respect for each other. and from what you have described he doesn't even respect himself... and he has behaviors that are upsetting for you and also behaviors you do not consider respectful so an "authentic healthy friendship" is not emotionally possilbe for you with him at this point. So your choosing no contact will empower you to grow past this drama and regain your sense of self. You seem like a great guy, and you really had good intentions in trying to help him learn how to love, but he would have to have "healthy respectful intentions" as well in order to even begin to recognize them in someone else. You are doing the right thing to grieve what you "hoped" could be and to now "accept" that it won't work with who this guy CHOOSES to be... you're going to grow way past this to be happy and fulfilled..

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I respect your request. I think your post has offered up 2 learning opportunities here. One regarding the setting of boundaries and the other regarding drama.


First you have made it clear you wish to set the clear boundary that I do not post in your thread anymore. I respect that and will abide by that provided you respect my boudary that you do not address me in your threads or take snipes at me. Agreed?


Second regarding what I was referring to earlier on about you creating drama. Below I have bolded the words that are dramatic or added for dramatic effect.


Tyler: I don't know why you insist in following me all over the boards. I already told you not to waste any more of your time because I do not appreciate your combative behaviour. There is a difference between constructive posts and the posts you have made here and my other threads simply to ATTACK. I don't need your opinions, all of the ones you've made so far are just way off. They're doing nothing for me, so go ahead and type up all your precious thoughts on other people's threads. Pound on those keys till your fingers bleed, you seem to take great pleasure in kicking people while they're down. HOw admirable.


Its all used to make the situation seem much more than it really is. I dont see posting in 2 of your thread as following. I dont see disagreeing with you and pointing out things you are doing as combatative. I dont see typing on my keyboard as pounding. Like I said I will respect your boundaries and will no longer post in your threads.

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I told him I really tried to make myself 'like' other people so I can move on. He wanted me to find a guy who would make me happy, because he's been nothing but a rollercoaster ride.


Okay, first off I'm sorry that you're hurting so bad. Feelings and love are the same, no matter what your sexual orientation. I agree with the rest that you need to go NC until you get on your feet, emotionally-speaking. This guy is bad for you. Whether or not he MEANT to hurt you by mentioning his curiosity about women, it's up in the air. Maybe he really thought he could talk to you about it as a friend. He just needs to understand that you need more time to heal before you can be friends (if ever).


I quoted the above because this is something I see in A LOT of threads here... and it just astounds me. Look, you should NEVER, EVER force yourself into other relationships in order to heal or move on. It doesn't work... you get dependent and needy and sometimes end up breaking the OTHER person's heart.


Additionally, NO ONE can "make" you happy! You must, must, MUST be happy with yourself before you can have a successful relationship. Relying on someone else to MAKE you happy only sets yourself up as the weak, needy, dependent partner.


I don't mean to sound harsh... but please... seek happiness within yourself before you ever get into another relationship. Good luck...

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This is a really solid response. I agree wholeheartedly -- we should never push ourselves to find another relationship to get over the previous one. I admit it has crossed my mind to go out immediately and find another guy after my ex's news that he has reconciled with his previous ex yet again, but I've decided that, for now, I'm going to enjoy doing my own thing and not go out *looking.* When I'm ready, when I know I won't be comparing every guy to him, when I'm no longer thinking things like "I wonder if he'll be jealous if he finds out I've got someone else?" then I'll know I'm ready.


And, you're right, PixelPusher: No one on this planet (or any other planet, for that matter!) can make us happy. They can, however, make us miserable -- or, more specifically -- WE can make ourselves miserable over them -- if we let it happen. A big revelation I've had over the last few days is that I can't stand the thought that I will go the rest of my life thinking that this guy who dumped me -- who looked at me and saw all of my great qualities and still said "Uh...no, I think I'll pass" -- was the "one" for me and that I will never find someone else I care for as much. This revelation has steeled my resolve to move forward without him in my life.


BrokenTinMan, you were very helpful to me on one of my threads yesterday; your experience of taking back your ex repeatedly, despite the fact that you know the relationship isn't good for you, parallels my ex's situation with his ex to some degree, and I really hope that you will be able to break that cycle of going back to him, because at this point, he *knows* he has you there -- that he can leave you, time and time again, and that if he comes back, you'll always be waiting. Even if you don't feel as if you're *waiting*, on some level, you are, and always will be unless you make the conscious decision to cut him off for good -- that means no friendship, no acquaintanceship, nothing -- at least for a good six months or until you are certain you can speak with him without all sorts of old emotions being stirred up.


I hope that you are able to resolve this for yourself, particularly within your own heart. Acceptance is extremely difficult, but when it comes, there will be a huge weight -- literally -- lifted from you, and you will feel relief.


Hang in there.

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