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argh - his insecurities driving me away


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i understand everyone needs reassurance in relationships. and affection. i do. but sometimes i just can't believe the way my boyfriend reacts to what seem like the littlest things!


last night we went out to dinner with two friends (one a friend of mine, one a friend of his). when we arrived my friend was already there waiting for us. i had walking in first so i moved the the far side of the table and sat down next to my friend, leaving my boyfriend and his friend to sit next to each other on the other side of the table. well my boyfriend was looking at me and looked visibly disturbed. then he asked our friends if they'd mind switching seats so we could sit together. mind you we'd spent the whole weekend together, sleeping in, being physically intimate, doing things together. now he's upset because i don't sit next to him at a one-hour dinner with our friends? so my friend said sure (they could switch seats) and his friend didn't even seem aware of what was going on (busy reading his menu). i guess i just had this surprised look on my face, wondering what the big deal was and why he couldn't tolerate sitting like we were for a hour. i knew later it would be a big deal - him asking me why it wasn't important to me that we sit next to each other at dinner - don't i care about how we interact? - don't i want to be affectionate? etc, etc.


we all just kind of sat there not exactly knowing how to react. then my boyfriend just said, "you know what, never mind". but then he wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't look at me or my friend, and only barely responded when one of us tried to ask him something. then he said something to his friend and got up and left without even saying good-bye to me or my friend! he totally bailed on dinner because we didn't sit next to each other! he left his friend, who i have only met a couple times and who didn't know my friend at all, there to eat dinner with near strangers. we did fine, but i thought it was terrible behavior.


my boyfriend had driven me and his friend to dinner, so i was guessing i'd be taking a bus or cab home after. when we were leaving, his friend told that my boyfriend was waiting in the car. i said i'd find my own way home and i went and had a drink with my friend. that was last night and we haven't spoken since.


now, i should say that we spend a lot of time together - almost all of our free time. we see each other almost daily, have a very affectionate relationship, frequent sex, etc. but he's often (several times a week) getting upset over things such as:


- he says i hold his hand "too loosely" when we are out in public so he thinks i don't really want to and i am embarrassed to be with him.


- if i ever call him by his name rather than using 'honey', 'baby' or 'sweetie' all the time, that sets him off


- we got in a little disagreement (nothing big) when we were just about to head into a movie with his son, and then he started pouting in front of his son and said that he didn't want to go if i wasn't going to be "sweet to him".


- we went out to brunch with his son one morning and were laughing and joking with each other and his son, did a puzzle in the paper, i fed him bites of my food, etc. i thought we were having a nice morning, but then we get in the car and he's upset because he says i was being distant and not affectionate and it seems like i don't even want to touch him. he says he i was sitting really far away from him on the bench and that he put his hand on him leg and i didn't reciprocate (i don't even remember this). i didn't want to talk about this in front of his son.


- he says sometimes when he goes to kiss me i just give him a "peck" back and don't want to take the time out to connect with him and give him a longer kiss. usually these are times when we've been laying around and spending all day being affectionate together and now we're in a rush or just walked in the door and i need to use the restroom or whatever.



anyway, these are just a few examples of the kinds of things he gets upset over. and he doesn't just get a little upset, he does things like he did last night when he walked out.


i'm pretty much getting to the point where his reactions to these things is really negatively affecting the way i feel about the relationship. there is so much pressure!


i don't know what i can do. every time we try to talk about it we just fight - he says it seems like i don't even care about how we interact and he doesn't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't want to be affectionate with him, etc.


is there any way to get through to him, or some way for me to better handle his sensitivity? he seems to need pretty constant reassurance and validation, and i feel myself pulling away.

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He's being self-centered and maybe ought to act less like his young son and more like an adult. His reasons for acting like this could be any number of things but perhaps, maybe, he was slighted in the past and is reading too much into things, finding red flags where their are none, all in an attempt to "save" this relationship because he feels that he missed these little things in his prior relationship and believe it was his fault for that one failing.


He needs to talk to someone because it seems he has trust issues and blames himself for the past problems so he;s overcompensating now.

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Wow. This sounds like a nightmare. Your bf sounds like a bottomless pit of neediness. And if you don't act the way he wants you to- he "punishes" you by leaving a restaurant and going to sulk in the car? How embarrassing.


It doesn't seem like anyone would ever be able to give him enough attention or affection. Personally, I wouldn't be able to handle it.

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Wow. This sounds like a nightmare. Your bf sounds like a bottomless pit of neediness. And if you don't act the way he wants you to- he "punishes" you by leaving a restaurant and going to sulk in the car? How embarrassing.


It doesn't seem like anyone would ever be able to give him enough attention or affection. Personally, I wouldn't be able to handle it.


I'm with Jenny on this. How much would be enough? That was a question I had to ask myself and a man I had been dating for a few months. He had similar issues. After a few weeks I dreaded spending time with him so I understand how you feel.


As for offering advice on how to handle it with sensitivity, I pretty much exhausted all my approaches and none worked. Sometimes they seemed to work, as in our discussions would end well, but his complaints would come again a couple days or a couple of weeks later. Sorry to be pessimistic, but I concluded that some people struggle with anxiety and abandonment and it's very difficult to reach them.

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I agree with the other posters. No matter what you do, how much you do, how much you give-- he will still not be satisfied. He will only want more.


I also see a bad cycle. The more he whines and complains to you, the more it pushes you away. He thinks his whining and complaining is going to get him somewhere, but he doesn't realize that it's counterproductive. You need to tell him this. That the more emphasis he puts on it, the more it puts you OFF.


This dude really needs to cool down a bit. Don't give in to his childish behavior, either! It'll just reinforce it.

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As attractive as the positives in the relationship are, unless you can cope with this neediness, you will not be able to withstand his insecurities.


Insecurities aren't just something you can have a sit down discussion with him and tell him to turn them off. Insecurities run deep within a person and take time to change. They take work on the effort of the person having them, as insecurities are 100% an internal struggle.


I suppose you could wait around forever in hopes that he improves, maybe he will, maybe not. But generally speaking, it takes a long time and HUGE motivation to change. It also often takes the work of a therapist. If he's worth it, by all mean, bury 2 years of your life trying to fix him....


But chances are you are stuck with a clinger.

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I feel for you. Your boyfriend sounds extremely insecure. I wonder if he has issues with abandonment, if perhaps he's had women -- or anyone significant in his life -- just disappear on him, leaving him feeling abandoned. Or, perhaps he grew up in a family that wasn't affectionate -- or maybe one that was REALLY affectionate. I don't know. Clearly, he lacks a sense of self-worth, and if you're not *validating* him every minute by showing him tons of affection, he panics and becomes extremely clingy, and then sulks when you don't respond favorably to his clinginess.


I'm not sure if there is anything you can do about this. Something tells me he will not change; I'm not sure how old he is, but if he's a parent, he's probably not too young, so I don't think it can be chalked up to immaturity.


I was in a similar situation, many years ago, and I came to feel so smothered and so resentful of the man's behavior that I was actually repulsed by him -- I didn't want to be around him at all, and when I was, and he would be constantly touching me, clinging to my side like an appendage, I felt so anxious that I could barely stand it. I finally broke up with him, largely because I felt so smothered and I had tried to talk with him about it, to no avail. He, like your boyfriend, would pout, sulk, and constantly question why I wasn't as affectionate as he was. I know I'm not a cold person -- I enjoy being affectionate, but this guy was over the top! He had to always be sitting right next to me, even at a restaurant, in a booth, when most people on dates will sit accross from each other in order to better hold a conversation. He ALWAYS had to hold my hand or have his arm around me, whether we were standing, sitting, whatever. After we broke up, people started commenting to me on how clingy he was -- several people told me they thought it was weird, and my parents had always thought it was really inappropriate for him to be clinging to me all the time -- it made them uncomfortable.


I hate to advise you to break up with him, but if it keeps going like this, you're going to really start to resent him, and it may come to that. For now, though, if you really want to try to save this relationship, you might try sitting down and having an honest, tactful discussion with him. In a non-accusatory way, let him know that his behavior concerns you -- that you were uncomfortable with your friends the other night because of how he acted, and that sometimes he makes you really uncomfortable when he gets upset because you're not affectionate *enough.* Remind him that you spend a lot of quality time with him, and that during those times, you are very affectionate with one another.


It sounds like he is trying to manipulate you -- both with the sulking AND with his insistence that you're not giving him what he needs in terms of affection. This is not just a case of your needs being incompatible. His expectations in terms of affection are pretty unrealistic. I'm not sure if there's any way to make him see that.


I wish I could be more helpful to you, but I don't really know what to tell you. You could try talking to him to let him know where you're coming from, but I'm not sure if that will help. You may come to a point where you can't stand it anymore, and you may end up having to leave him if he persists in this behavior.


Hang in there. Keep us posted.

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he's been emailing me today letting me know how angry he is that when he asked if we could sit next to each other last night at the restaurant i didn't make a move to make that happen. he says that i could see that it was bothering him and i didn't even care enough about his feelings to try to come over and sit by him.


he's been saying that i am not in love with him, that he would never treat me this way and that i don't care about his feelings. he keeps telling me i should apologize for not trying to move to sit next to him when it was obviously upsetting him and that i humiliated him by not doing so.


he said:


"if you were in love with me, you would care and respond if/when i said something as simple as 'could we sit next to one another while we eat with our friends'? but you don't even f**ing respond! you totally f**ing ignore me.

f that, i don't want to be treated that way"


he brought up that my friend we were there with is a "guy i used to date". yes, i did briefly date this guy 8 years ago, but we've been only friends since then, i've been open with my boyfriend about it and always invite him along when i spend time with this friend. i don't even really see this friend that often, while i spend almost every day/night with my boyfriend!


i don't really think this is about it being a friend who i dated years ago. my boyfriend got upset at a dinner party at my house a couple of weeks ago. i had 7 people there and my boyfriend insisted on changing seats with another of my friends when it didn't look like we'd end up sitting next to each other during the meal. a friend of my boyfriend's was there too and these were all people he'd met before, so it wasn't like he didn't know anyone!


i asked him if he was jealous or threatened by my friendship with the guy we were hanging out with last night. and i reassured him that i don't have any romantic feelings for this guy - that we are just friends like i am with all my other friends. he says he isn't jealous or threatened, just mad that i didn't move to sit by him when i could see that it was hurting his feelings and humiliated by the whole thing.


i was pretty humiliated too. even that he would make a big deal out of us not sitting next to each other and try to get people to move around was a bit embarrassing to me. am i being insensitive? he says i am...

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i told him that i do love him (he keeps saying i don't) and that the fact that he is frequently hurt over things that i do and don't do is a real issue.


he says this:


"i see. it is too much trouble to be sensitive to things that matter to me- things that demonstrate affection and things that demonstrate that we are a couple. we shouldn't be a couple if that is how you feel. so do let me know if that is how you feel, and i will stop causing you issues."


I also told him that i felt it was lame the way he walked out of the restaurant without saying a word to to me or my friend.


he said this:


"wrong. i asked if it would be ok if we sat next to one another and you TOTALLY IGNORED ME. didn't give a damn about how i was feeling. it's insulting."


HELP! I don't know what to say to this stuff. I see things so differently but we keep going back and forth.

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You know, honestly, I think breaking up with him, and letting him know that it was his insecurity, might be the only way to help him get over it. When I was reading your story, I realized a lot of the petty crap I used to pull with one of my exes. I wasn't as bad as your bf, but I used to do things like... think my ex was acting distant when she wasn't, or question if she really loved me, etc. It just comes from a lack of self esteem. I didn't realize how much of an ass I must have seemed like until she broke up with me and I had a few months to really reflect on my behavior. I'm trying very hard to not repeat the same mistakes in my new relationship. You might just have to let him go, but for his sake, be brutally honest. He will probably convince himself that you just never loved him. But hopefully, after the sting of the breakup starts to go away, he'll be able to look back and reevaluate the way he was acting. Maybe you could even get back together in the future if you see he's matured.

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How old is this man??


Perhaps you should suggest, the next time you speak to him, that he go talk to a third party - 'cause this is super-crazy-making-behavior. I went through much of the same with a 45 years old male...smother, smother, smother. Good Lord. I mean, he treated me like a Queen, I suppose - but all of his good deeds came with a price. This is a very frightening sign and please please be careful.


Bless you!

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thanks for all the responses, everyone. i think i am coming around to feeling/thinking that we need to break up.


to answer people's questions - he is 34. and he definitely has had some abandonment type scenarios before - initially with his parents and later with his ex-wife. although i am not sure now - perhaps he put all this weight on her and it ended up pushing her away and just causing him to feel abandoned again.


he sometimes knows that he is sabotaging things with these types of reactions but then five minutes later he'll be justifying his expectations and saying that he doesn't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be affectionate and meet his needs, etc. we went to a counselor once for the first time last week. i really liked the guy and we both wanted to go back, but i fear that if my bf's perspective doesn't change so that he sees these things as problems and if they are not things he's looking to change, then they won't change.




hey confused_guy, did your ex tell you that it was because of your insecurities and the way the were manifesting in the relationship that she was breaking up with you? or did you just see it on your own, after time went by?


i want to let him know this is why i feel we need to split up. however, i've already tried to say this to him, when i said that the fact that he is frequently hurt over things that i do and don't do is a real issue. and, as i said in his earlier post, he came back saying that if it was too much trouble for me to be sensitive to his needs i should let him know and we should stop being in a relationship. so he already doesn't see it the way i do, i don't know if there is any point in articulating it again and having him come back at me with jabs?

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Hmm, manipulative and passive-aggressive. Honestly, given his response to you in that email, I also am going to venture off to say he is emotionally and verbally abusive (manipulating you and swearing at you and putting you down). Something is just very amiss with this situation and it gave me a bit of a "chill" of sorts reading it.


He is 34. I don't think he is going to change. This is who he is. Personally, there is no way in hell I would stay with a man like this. Being affectionate is great, but being affectionate in a manner that is more about exerting control (i.e. getting you to sit next to him and throwing tantrums if you don't) is another.


Honestly, I think you need to walk away from this guy. He is not going to get better, and I dare say he is probably going to get worse as a manner in which to further control your actions in order to satisfy his own insecurities or who knows what else.


This is horribly unhealthy.

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This whole "meet my needs or we shouldn't be in a relationship" is a bluff. Most likely he'd break up with you, realize he's an idiot when you don't come running back to him, and then ask for you back. I know because I've done this before as well. Guh, thank god I've realized a lot of this stuff. I should thank her for breaking up with me


It's most likely not blatant manipulation. He probably really feels like you're not being affectionate enough, or whatever his complaint is. That's how it was for me, and I didn't realize I was being overbearing until she dumped me and I had to really take a look at what caused it.


My ex didn't come out and say it was my "insecurity". What she said was, I could be "mean at times" and demanding when I didn't get my way. We had a few petty arguments over things like I mentioned previously.. Me feeling she was being distant when she really wasn't, or taking something she said the wrong way, small things like that. And I would get mad, hurt, feel rejected, for no good reason.


Anyways, I don't think there is a good way to convince him that he's being insecure while you're still in a relationship with him. He needs to figure that out himself. And being totally honest with him is probably his only chance. Im sure he'll be really defensive at first, as I was, but hopefully he'll eventually be able to take a look inward and resolve his issues.

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I dated a guy with similar behaviors for about 7 weeks almost three years ago. It was annoying and controlling too and he was very sharp/smart so he would explain "rationally" why he behaved that way, at other times he would ask for another chance/promise to change but it didn't last before the behavior started again. He was in his 40s.

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i realize that what happened the other night in the restaurant was not an isolated incident, and there is a bigger issue that isn't just going to go away. we aren't talking right now - last we were he was "yelling" at me with the things i told you he said over email. i replied and said i do care about him but feel i need to take a step back from the relationship. that was a couple of days. i'm still taking time to sort through my feelings and get some distance and perspective, both on what happened the other night and our relationship as a whole. posting here is part of that process.


i'd like to know people's opinions on what happened the other night, and that alone. does it seem like an unreasonable request on his part that we switch seats so we could sit next to each other at dinner with our friends? was it cold/uncaring of me to just "ignore" his request. i didn't really say anything, just sat there kind of surprised and feeling awkward. my friend said he'd switch seats, then when nobody moved and i said nothing, my boyfriend just said "forget it". not long later he left the restaurant without a word to me or my friend. he said i humiliated him by just ignoring his request to sit together and being insensitive to his feelings. does anyone else see it this way?

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Hey lenni,


You know, for me that question is all about context. If he wanted to sit beside you as it was his first time meeting these people and he felt a bit uncomfortable, it seems more reasonable. If he simply wanted to because to him it means you "like him more" and he was going to be sulky and pouty if you didn't, that is just not reasonable to me.


His reaction to me was pretty passive-aggressive. And it would bother me he reacted that way in front of friends, rather than just later on talking about how he felt a bit uncomfortable that you did not sit with him. Does that make sense?


It is hard to separate THIS incident from the context of the relationship as a whole and his other "sensitivities" (ie not holding his hand tight enough (sorry, to me that is just WEIRD...I don't want to get a hand cramp, there is something lovely about being able to hold someones hand loosely as a sign of affection and contact without a death grip saying MINE MINE MINE) ). To me, this incident is just part of his overall nature and attitude towards relationships. It really comes off as "possessory" in nature.


It reminds me much of a young teen girl who feels that relationships are based on Hollywood movies and that you should be all over one another all the time, there is just something awkward and infantile about his behaviour where it seems it is more about show than it is about real intimacy. Something just seems *off* to me about it.


I wonder more if these kind of things are not what CAUSED his marital/relationship breakdown (this, plus progression of this) rather than marital/relationship breakdown causing these issues to be honest.

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No, it wasn't cold and uncaring of you. You said in your original post that you had just spent the entire weekend together. Plus, the way the seating sounds like it worked out- you would be sitting next to your friend and he (your bf) would end up sitting next to his own friend!


I'm not trying to sound rude at all- but I cannot for the life of me imagine a grown man who sees his gf on a regular basis getting upset because he is going to sit accross from his gf and not next to her- for a dinner that would likely last for an hour or 2 at the most.


If you had moved to sit next to him would you be required to hold his hand under the table the whole time? Maybe you wouldn't be holding it tight enough- how cold of you! Or maybe you would have ordered something that you needed to cut with a knife and fork and have to drop his hand for a few seconds- how cold! If you really loved him you would have ordered soup so you could hold his hand all night!


With someone like your bf it will NEVER end and it will NEVER be enough.


He's controlling, manipulative, and horribly rude. I mean, how awkward for your friend to not only be asked to move seats, but also to witness your bf leaving.


Somehow your bf has planted some seed of doubt in your mind and made you think that *maybe* what he did was reasonable and *maybe* you really are just very insensitive and mean. Please don't fall for this.

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You know, for me that question is all about context. If he wanted to sit beside you as it was his first time meeting these people and he felt a bit uncomfortable, it seems more reasonable. If he simply wanted to because to him it means you "like him more" and he was going to be sulky and pouty if you didn't, that is just not reasonable to me.


I see your point. He wasn't meeting my friend for the first time - they've met several times. And his friend was there too, so he wasn't just amongst all my friends or anything. It seemed to make sense to me that he'd sit next to his friend, and that it would have been a little weird to insist that our friends sit next to each other, especially given that they were meeting each other for the first time.



I wonder more if these kind of things are not what CAUSED his marital/relationship breakdown (this, plus progression of this) rather than marital/relationship breakdown causing these issues to be honest.


I've been wondering that myself

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Somehow your bf has planted some seed of doubt in your mind and made you think that *maybe* what he did was reasonable and *maybe* you really are just very insensitive and mean. Please don't fall for this.


thanks jenny_mcs. what you say makes a lot of sense. and you are right, he's planted that seed by continually telling me i mortified him, didn't care about his feelings when he made the "simple request", and he was appalled that i didn't even apologize for hurting his feelings.


i *do* care about his feelings, which is why i've been trying to understand his point of view. i believe that he was embarrassed and i believe that he feels i could have just done this simple thing to be "loving" to him and acknowledge his feelings. however, as many have pointed out, it would never be enough. there would always be something else. i could sit by him at every event, hold his hand with a death grip, etc., etc. and something else would still be interpreted as a lack of caring/desire/love on my part.




so i realize this, and i realize i can't "fix" it. now i don't really know what to say to him. all i've said is i thought it best for us to "take a step back" from our relationship. i feel that i need to break it off more officially and not just leave it at that. i did tell him that it was because i feel that he is regularly getting very upset over things i do & don't do, all the while i feel i am being a loving, attentive, affectionate partner.


i don't really want to have more discussions about this with him because a) i don't think he's going to get where i am coming from and b) i think he is just going to attack me again and start saying how i don't love him or give a s**t and if i did i wouldn't have a problem doing these little things to demonstrate that.


so what can i say at this point, to finalize things?

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Well lenni, I feel for you, but I do think you are making the right decision by breaking things off. I think if you stayed with him, not only would you be getting yelled at on a regular basis about how cold you are, but I think in a long-term sense it could really impact you negatively- I can see someone in your situation becoming turned off by affection, and start feeling like it was all an obligation or a burden, which of course would suck in your future relationships.


As far as finalizing the break, I would say something like- I think we are at an impasse when it comes to how we perceive my treatment of you. I feel like I am loving, caring and affectionate, and you feel that I am not. That leaves you feeling under-appreciated and me feeling under constant attack and criticism. Clearly we’re never going to be on the same page – and I feel it would be better if went our separate ways and found partners who were more in sync with each of us.


Keep it short and sweet. If her starts to attack, just reiterate that this is why it’s best that you guys break up. For example:


Him: You treat me like crap!

You: I think I treat you great. But I understand that you feel that I treat you like crap. That’s why it’s better that we break up.


Him: You can’t even show me the slightest bit of affection or love!

You: I think I show you lots of affection and love. But I understand that you feel that I don’t. That’s why it’s better that we break up.




Good luck with this all!

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guys, i could use some support. i am feeling really awful.


i didn't talk to my boyfriend for almost a week after the events i detailed in my original post. told him i needed to take a step back. felt that things were left unfinished so initiated contact with him today asking if he wanted to get together and talk. he wrote back saying a bunch of things about how i am selfish, unloving, detached, too headstrong to apologize and emotionally unavailable. that i hurt his feelings at dinner when i didn't make an effort to sit with him and completely ignored him and embarrassed him in front of our friends and now don't even care enough to say i am sorry.


i handled it ok i think as i didn't get defensive but just kept asserting that i don't feel i am unloving nor cold but that i know he feels differently and that, because we are at odds, i don't think we are good as a couple. he kept coming back to me saying things like 'oh, you don't think it is cold and unloving to completely ignore someone's feelings?' and he insists that i would have been really hurt if the tables were turned, and he wouldn't have done what i did in the first place, but had he done so he would have immediately apologized.


and lastly, he said:


"What guy wants to date (or marry!) a girl that doesn't even sit next to him when they walk into a restaurant together with a group of other people? How do you expect to keep a man?"


i could use some support - feeling really beat up right now.

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Hey lenni...


Alright...to keep it short and simple...he's a donkey's bum.


In answer to his rhetorical question:

"What guy wants to date (or marry!) a girl that doesn't even sit next to him when they walk into a restaurant together with a group of other people? How do you expect to keep a man?"


A man whom is not an insecure, selfish whinging and manipulative brat whom feels the need to control his partner's every physical interaction with him to "prove" to others her love or to resolve his own insecurities.


And a good man does not need to be "kept" - he WANTS TO STAY WITH YOU!

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if you mean it when you say you love him then i think you should email him say that you love him and we should talk. In this talk i think you need to make it clear that you love him but constantly having to prove it to him is becoming tiresome. You need to tell him to accept the fact that you love him and that you wouldnt be with him if you didn't. let him know your not just waiting for something better because that someone perfect is him. i honestly think you should apologize to him not that you ignored him but that you didnt realize how important it was for him but in the same breath ask him why is it that little things like sitting next to one another effects him the way it does..let him know these little things arent how you show him you love him its the time you spend with him and his son its all of those things and thats what he needs to look at. not nit pick and over analyze every little detail. but i think the most important thing you must talk to him about is that this constant struggle is tearing you down and the two of you apart...that if he can not accept your love soon he will lose it..but you must be very delicate in how you say this because the way it sounds is that he wants a reason to leave you just so you wont leave him...men like this are sick, i know, i was one..it took a lot of counseling for me to realize i had abandonment issues from my childhood and that i would drive women off before they could leave me for me. my mindset was that if they loved me enough they would then be willing to prove it all the time i never realized that if i loved them then i could make the effort to not force them to validate theres.



just my two cents..like it, love it, leave it

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