A LDR with competition

[Rad5000]

For about six months, I became very close to someone I met online [same state, same age, same interests], and I called/contacted her everyday. We seemed to never have disagreements, and fit perfectly together.

Then one day, she came to me with the news that she was already seeing someone, since before she met me. She wasn't actively seeking an affair, our friendship simply evolved into something much more. Furthermore, she had already agreed to visit the other man, who lives in Canada, over the Christmas break [we both live in California]. He had already paid for her ticket.

 

I was devastated, and for a few weeks, lost sleep and ate poorly. She felt this way as well, and yelled at her boss/ground her teeth during sleep, from what she told me. On the day that she left for her visit, I had intended to say something so as to guilt her into having a bad trip.. yet I couldn't bring myself to do this, and told her that I hoped she would have a safe Christmas.

 

During her trip, I've been supportive of her, making it obvious that I care about how she is. I've wondered frequently if this was a good idea, or if I would be better off going NC, or even acting angered when I speak with her. She's actually never said anything to warrant my anger, except for her lie-of-omission by not telling me about her relationship.

 

She tells me that she's never known anyone other than me who would go out of their way to make her feel better, and admits that this other man ignores her feelings frequently. She can also "tell me things she could never discuss with [him]"

If she hadn't already agreed to meet this man before she met me, I would feel different about her visit [likely leave her, and keep my pride]. I figure she's visiting the Canadian man partially out of a feeling of obligation, though she admits she "likes us both".

 

This wouldn't be so difficult if I didn't feel so attracted, since I consider it pathetic to chase after someone who isn't faithful.

I just keep convincing myself that, given the situation, she did the polite thing.

 

What I would like to know is this:

She tells me she would still like to meet me, and have a meaningful relationship... should I plan to visit her eventually, or was this whole mess a sign that things will never work? I would love to be close with this person... but it would take ages to regain my trust. Not to mention, I'm almost certain she wouldn't be able to break things off instantly with this other person.

[Heidi_]

Im not saying it wouldn't work because I don't know every detail of your relationship, but the fact that she lied about being in another relationship, and that she was going to Canada to be with another person tells me she doesn't want to settle and she is constantly looking for someone new. but that is just how I view it.

[Rad5000]

Im not saying it wouldn't work because I don't know every detail of your relationship, but the fact that she lied about being in another relationship, and that she was going to Canada to be with another person tells me she doesn't want to settle and she is constantly looking for someone new. but that is just how I view it.

 

I viewed it more as her feeling obligated to go, since he already paid for her plane ticket. It's just hard, because we 'ended' [and still are] on good terms, so I don't have a sense of closure

[LE DHUY NHUT]

Back away,back away!This sounds eerily like my own situation.She has to make up her mind and if she can't then she ain't worth it.Never accept 'friendship' or scraps of attention from women in relationships or who can't make up their mind.And why do you contact every day?No wonder she takes you for granted.Stand up for yourself and only accept what you really want or else nothing at all.

[jettison]

This is an interesting dynamic, and one I'll try to shed a little bit of light on for you:

 

 

For about six months, I became very close to someone I met online [same state, same age, same interests], and I called/contacted her everyday. We seemed to never have disagreements, and fit perfectly together.

 

No matter how perfect an online fit, online does not equal real life. A "perfect match" neither assures or discludes a great offline partnership. It simply means that you have some kind of spark, and something in common. Basically, it means that you've found someone that you would be willing to date to see how it goes. People should be very careful about getting themselves too wrapped up in the "love" feeling you might get from that person via the net. A good portions of those feelings have surfaced simply because the net is rather anonymous and safe. People crave intimacy over anything else, and when you find swift, fast intimacy then it will feel like love. Be careful though. People are generally more protective of themselves and not as forthright in real life. This means that, no matter how intimate your online relationship, you'll still have to develop offline intimacy to be successful. It's a great start though.

 

 

Then one day, she came to me with the news that she was already seeing someone, since before she met me. She wasn't actively seeking an affair, our friendship simply evolved into something much more. Furthermore, she had already agreed to visit the other man, who lives in Canada, over the Christmas break [we both live in California]. He had already paid for her ticket.

 

It sounds like she's invested herself in a few online to offline conversions. Who knows what the Canadian will mean to her, but it's obvious that she's willing to explore options.

 

During her trip, I've been supportive of her, making it obvious that I care about how she is. I've wondered frequently if this was a good idea, or if I would be better off going NC, or even acting angered when I speak with her. She's actually never said anything to warrant my anger, except for her lie-of-omission by not telling me about her relationship.

 

None of these are great options. It's not your job to be supportive of her as she's with a new mate. That's his job. She's openly chose him. Let her deal with it. DO NOT be supportive of it. It's fake. Don't be angry either because that's life. You can say something like "It sucks that you have a boyfriend. I don't like it one bit, but good luck." That's as supportive as you ever need be of her relationship.

 

She tells me that she's never known anyone other than me who would go out of their way to make her feel better, and admits that this other man ignores her feelings frequently. She can also "tell me things she could never discuss with [him]"

 

And yet she's with him and not with you. That should tell you something shouldn't it? It means that a "kind, gentle soul" is not a requirement of hers when it comes to a partner. In fact, it may disclude the partnership. You're a confidant. He's apparently her lover. It sounds like he demands what he wants, and makes it happen. He bought her a ticket for example. She's attracted to that.

 

If she hadn't already agreed to meet this man before she met me, I would feel different about her visit [likely leave her, and keep my pride]. I figure she's visiting the Canadian man partially out of a feeling of obligation, though she admits she "likes us both".

 

I don't believe that. I think she really likes the other guy. If she didn't, then she wouldn't risk messing things up with you. However, since you're so understanding, she knows already that you'll take her back anyway. Part of the reason she was willing to discuss so much of her personal life with the other guy is because she wanted create an emotional bond over it, to confide in you, so that she imagined you would not be able to let her go and yet still would have to understand.

 

This wouldn't be so difficult if I didn't feel so attracted, since I consider it pathetic to chase after someone who isn't faithful.

I just keep convincing myself that, given the situation, she did the polite thing.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but I think that you're right, but just not how you're imagining it. I think that she did the polite thing with you, and now she's visiting her lover in Canada. I'm not saying that she doesn't have feelings for you, or that something couldn't work out... only that she is with who she is with and that means something. People are not generally polite when it comes to love and passion. They go with feeling.

 

What I would like to know is this:

She tells me she would still like to meet me, and have a meaningful relationship... should I plan to visit her eventually, or was this whole mess a sign that things will never work? I would love to be close with this person... but it would take ages to regain my trust. Not to mention, I'm almost certain she wouldn't be able to break things off instantly with this other person.

 

She should not have to gain your trust. You need to look at this a little bit differently. Right now, you have what amount to an intense, online flirtation. That's it. Nothing has been consumated. For her to even say "I want to pursue a relationship with you" is just selfish. It doesn't mean that much. She's throwing heavy phrases out there to keep you emotionally attached while she sees what happens with the other guy. I'm not saying that you're a backup plan. I'm not saying that the Canadian is. I'm saying that she's basically just weighing her options.

 

You need to look at her as merely "someone I could potentially date", and not "someone I'm in love with and will marry and grow old with". Slow it down a bit. You need a completely different perspective to have any chance.

[Rad5000]

Thanks for the thoughtful response Jettison.

 

Something I hadn't mentioned:

She's met this other man before, but has never met me. I shouldn't be surprised that she was willing to visit him. I don't know how they've met, I never made it a point to find out.

 

Considering I met her second [and never in real life], I shouldn't be surprised that she won't halt her plans for me. But it also makes me think that the way she acted was less cold, and more predictable. You're right, this is an intense online flirtation, not a relationship. Its one thing to have met a person in real life, and another to have simply found someone online.

 

I'm certain she would like me to visit her. But I know it would be painful to visit/date someone, only to have them retain feelings for another person. I know I should definitely meet someone before being insulted that they chose someone closer over me. I'm just wondering if I should take the steps to make the meeting a reality...

 

and what to tell her, next time I speak to her.

[orangesoda]

I'm going to be frank as well. Online chemistry does not guarantee in person chemistry. Not having to look someone in the eye while you interact with them is one reason why the internet and the phone simply cannot substitute for physical interaction. It's why LDR's die. It's why some people choose to break up over email, over the phone, over text messages, etc.

[Rad5000]

I just spoke with her.

I told her that I think we should take a break from talking until she returns from her trip on the 2nd.

 

It was harder for me, than it was for her.

 

 

 

But at least I did it.

[tiredofvampires]

I was involved with a man seriously (and exclusively) that began just this way. Seeing eachother was impossible for 6 months into our meeting online, and by the time we met, intense romantic love was already underway. We wrote reams of e-mail, and then graduated to the phone. Our first phone conversation was 9 hours (all night long), and no subsequent call during that build-up period was under 6 hours.

 

So by the time we saw eachother, had exchanged this much energy and dozens of photos -- I felt seeing him was the 2D man and the voice on the phone brought to life. Nothing in our chemistry changed, except to explode just as it had been building up. I felt when I saw him the first time, that I had already met him before.

 

So as many times as I've been disagreed with here, and elsewhere, the depth and forthrightness and revealing quality of the relatioship online depends as much on the nature of the people involved as the medium. I can't stress this enough: even though people can and do hide using the screen of the internet as a veil, in and of itself, it cannot prevent two people who are intensely expressive, candid, self-revealing and honest from getting a VERY good picture of one another. And, if you are a shrewd judge of character, able to detect nuances and pick up clues, you can also weed out sketchier people and see red flags. As a matter of fact, as much as he charmed me online, I saw the red flags from week 2. I simply didn't place the stock in them as much as I should have.

 

And, contrary to popular notions, sometimes the net can have a stripping effect -- because it's so minimal, over months it FORCES more out of each person to lay bare. In real life, appearances can be put on just as well, and physical charm and flirtation used to obscure red flags. I have really found that there is nothing like real life to cement a relationship, of course, and love cannot be consummated any other way -- however, if you pay very close attention to the dynamics of a relationship as it evolves online, what I've found is that it is going to closely mirror some of the things, good and bad, you will find happening in real time, in the flesh. It was a very good predictor in my case. Where I smelled smoke, there as fire. Unfortunately, there was a lot of heavy perfume as well.

 

And putting myself in your shoes, one of the problems that jumps out at me is that you have not found out -- in 6 long months -- where and how she met this Canadian, how long they have been involved, and to what extent she feels committed to him. Since you are a confidente (I agree with Jetts on that), and a friend, these are some basics that you should know.

 

That is a red flag to me, that you do not have this ability to communicate about some basics here, and to have a frank discussion of how involved this is.

 

Second HUGE red flag is that she kept this from you for so long. You deserved to know. The first obstacle I encountered with my beau online was that he started to speak in a very serious way very, very early -- within the first 2 weeks. I had been interested in one more "option" that I'd met (from the same dating site we were on), and I started to feel very torn about this. I really wanted to keep my options open at this early stage, even though I felt a strong pull to this man who was saying he'd never met anyone like me. It was clear to me that he had closed the door to anyone else, but I wasn't sure that was healthy for me, given this would be such an investment. I wanted to be sure that I wasn't just going with the first one that seemed into me, but got to know more than one before it got exclusive. So I told him UP FRONT, as his language became more and more intense, that this was where I was at. I told him that I really, really dug him, but that I needed to be sure I didn't jump in too soon without knowing him more, and hadn't closed the door yet on getting to know others. It was horribly awkward, and I knew it would hurt his feelings, but there was no way around it. THIS IS WHAT YOUR LOVE INTEREST SHOULD HAVE DONE, it is the only respectful thing. I think my beau should have seen that, but instead he got very upset and felt "jilted" about it. We were barely into 2 weeks of daily emails! I'm sure he saw that as a "red flag" on my part, that I wasn't committed to him, but I think his feeling like that was a red flag, actually! I think it's healthy to keep options open, when you really are in the dating process. Coming from a person like me, that's saying a LOT because I tend to fall for only one at a time, it's always been that way. But now, I just see that as too dangerous. Maybe it's my age, and realizing I have less time to screw up big time, leaping before I look around me.

 

So I think there is nothing inherently wrong with your love interest keeping the options "open." In and of itself, doesn't she owe that to herself to find a partner who she will be most happy with? And don't you owe that to yourself to know that if she chose you, she was doing it by being informed about her other choices, and deciding on you because you are the BEST of all? This is how a confident person has to go into the dating market, I believe.

 

This being difficult for my personality, it was hard enough to tell him, but I felt I owed that honesty to him. I felt like I was risking losing him, and sure enough he played on that -- and that's where my first big mistake happened. He got upset, petulant and withdrawn -- so with my sense of loyalty and my attraction to him combined, I just never even pursued the other gentleman at all. Shortly after saying I wanted to keep my options open, I slammed the door on my own foot and swore off anyone else. So I've learned my lesson about that.

 

But I would still be upfront with anyone I get to know and tell them that another prospect is in the picture. Count this as a character flaw that you have to pay very close attention to, in her. This is your first really solid indication about what she can do to hurt you, even though you have never met her. This is what I mean by the internet being capable of exposing character, even without being face-to-face or ever meeting. And honest person would have been honest, no matter what. You found out about this dishonesty simply via the net.

 

That is the problem I see here, not that she is juggling options.

 

I would not go so far as to say this Canadian sounds like her "boyfriend" yet. I could see myself "torn" between two people I'm interested in. But she is pursuing him, still. So there is enough interest, after more than one meeting, in this guy. I think it's quite likely that this guy has no idea you exist, either. If he did, he might easily be the kind of guy who would instantly cancel that ticket and never speak to her again.

 

So of the two men, she is visiting the lesser.

 

I think you are doing a good thing to take a step back and reassess this. I think it would be a good idea to allow her to come forward, and when she does, suggest a way you start making an in-person meeting possible. And your first order of business when you see her -- don't do this on the phone -- should be to look her deep in the eyes, as no internet can do, and ask her why she wouldn't tell you about the Canadian sooner, and explain that as much as you've been interested in her, this has caused you great concern. From there, you need to have a very candid discussion about what this man means to her and how far advanced the relationship. You can decide from there if she seems straightforward and able to communicate in a more open fashion, and you'll have to decide whether she could be someone trustworthy after that. I do believe she has broken a trust here.

 

I wouldn't write this off, as it's possible that she's truly unsure of what she wants, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket either. I think you should remain open -- wide open -- to other options yourself.

 

On another note, I personally wouldn't feel really great about being with someone who was having intimate sexual contact with someone else while weighing the options. Once it gets to the sexual stage, I personally feel exclusivity has been established for me -- and would want that in someone else. But that is just a personal level of comfort, and not necessarily a value judgment of others who "see people" with sex as part of the picture, while weighing their options. It's just not MY style at all.

[Rad5000]

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On another note, I personally wouldn't feel really great about being with someone who was having intimate sexual contact with someone else while weighing the options. Once it gets to the sexual stage, I personally feel exclusivity has been established for me -- and would want that in someone else. But that is just a personal level of comfort, and not necessarily a value judgment of others who "see people" with sex as part of the picture, while weighing their options. It's just not MY style at all.

 

This has troubled me greatly. The thought of her having sexual contact with him after the intimacy we shared is painful for me to cope with. Yet I feel that it's something that's likely true. Most people with any sense of pride would abandon all relations at this point, and while I'm tempted to do so, I'm haunted by the closeness we shared. I'm sure she feels the same way, even still. The reason I've stuck around was because I kept convincing myself that her trip was one of obligation. I know she has/had very strong feelings for me. I just use a "paid ticket" as a means of convincing myself that her trip isn't a sign of refusal to me.

 

I would hate to lose the potential of a wonderful relationship, simply because I interpreted her feelings wrong. I need to visit her in person before I can expect to be significant enough to her to be exclusive. Yet it's hard to convince myself to travel four hundred miles for something that, in her eyes, might never amount to more than a friendship. Is it pathetic to chase after someone who's "on the fence"?

[emalkoc]

This is very good TOV

 

My ex started a LDR with someone via net. It was a friendship! for a year while we are together. Then she basically dumped me to try out with him 5 weeks after we broke up. He already came here once and she went there once. I guess there is heavy net chatting going on but I see already some problems and she wants to keep the contact with me in meantime since we were together 2.5 yrs and she does not want to loose backup for sure....

 

I think she is also feeling the grass greener effect syndrome b/c she has complained few times about her work, her financials, etc...to me. I know she has still feelings for me b/c she has cried few times on the phone when she thought I am with someone else...

 

What do u think of her situation? I am waiting per sa' her LDR break-up but I know it wont work just b/c she wont move there (US vs. England) due her family ties and he has a good job, I think he is just a player...