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We are here over Xmass

Spugly Fuglet

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Im going to be looking in here over Xmass

I know it can be a hard time for some

you feel alone and left out, well Im here

to day we are here me and the others

who have been where you are and like

to come to ENA and help others if we can.

There is hope and there are ears to hear, eyes

to see and word to come out of the darkness.

You are not alone we will be here.


Please post and please hold on we will help in any and all

ways we can.



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This is my first attempt to try to communicate by computer, so excuse my jabbering.

I lost my wife 2005,to a combination of kidney and heart failure. I was the one to have her machines turned off. She was 6 years younger . It has taken me a lot of counciling to accept that I didn't kill her,but I'm fairly settled with myself.

I had lost my job 2004 (EEOC told me I should take employer to court, because employer terminated 4 other managers in similar situations but EEOC did not have enough solid proof to go to court with me- all 5 of us managers had someone in immediate family with severe illnesses-cancer,heart, etc and was costing the insurance co. an immense amount of monthly services) My wife's monthly medical care was in excess $12000 with medicare only covering a portion. I have never really found any substantial employment til June 2007. In Oct. I was starting to catch up to some of the many debts that were incurred along the way, but then my automobile engine blew-up and forced me to quit my job -no transportation.

During all the above , my daughter(35) for whatever reason stopped visiting or talking to me or my wife (her step-mother) I last saw and spoke to my daughter and one-year old grandson June 2001. We sent cards and gifts for birthdays and Xmas for 2 more years ,but never a response. My daughter and her step-mother always got along great and we couldn't understand the absense. My son(38) told us my daughter had re-married and moved but did not know who or where. My son has lived with me and his step-mother since he was 13 but talks with his birth mother occasionally. She would never tell us where my daughter was living or her new name.I mentioned my son. He moved nearby to have his own place at age 33, but we had always visited each other

until winter 2007 when he got very upset with several school(college) issues and financing situations. He implied I was at fault and to get out and never come back.I've called him, E-mailed him several times a week for several months, telling him I didn't know what or why he was upset with me but whatever I was sorry and wanted to talk and/see him but I couldn't take the mental hits from him as I have too much on my plate as it is. No response!

I know my daughter knew of my wife's passing, but she never sent a card or

acknowledged any remorse.

Well , here it is Xmas and I just recently found a 17 year old car. I have had no communications of any real meaning with anyone except my creditors the last 3 months and the loneliness is really taking a toll on me. I've tried my old counciler , but they said I needed to re-enter the low-cost program which had meant travel(no car). My church minister talks briefly but is like talking to a close friend or relative nearby.

My older brother(8yrs) lives out of the country and my older sister(10yrs) lives in N.J., so it's not like someone nearby.

What friends I have are spread out and have their own families and I realize

I'm not in the front of their thinking. God it's so lonely -Thanksgiving and Xmas were always a major family occasion and rememberance and now there is absolutely NO ONE

Sorry this was so long but, I need to explain to someone. I' m not really sure how I will handle this holiday? Thanksgiving was devestating-sandwhich and soup.

Oh, I also was informed my daughter gave birth to another grandchild. This info came from a friend of my ex-wife but would not reveal my daughter's location at insistance of ex-wife. My ex has always used whatever she could to make herself feel better about herself. She knows of my current situation and seems to relish in my misery.

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I had to reread this a few time so see what you words where saying,

You have had good times in the past and now find yourself where you are now.


What strikes me 1st and that your x wife, your children all seem to have cut them selfs off from you others around you who know you have placed space between you and them.


You have said there actions but why? really why would they do this, one has to face this fact.


"I find that others find it better to not be with me"


This can be Explained in one of two ways,

1: a vast and complex conspiracy where freands and family act from self Interest alone and placing oneself at the receiving end of there collective actions in a devilish plot.

2: Each one has been faced with my actions which has on a one to one case lead them to seeking separation from my company.


There is nothing one can do if the 1st it true, but my feeling is that 1 is a fiction. No its to 2 that we need seek the core of a problem which has lead one to this place of Isolation.


Life some time places us where we most need to be, its a place where we have to face things even we would not like to, There are other thing in ones life that out way this need, Grief, giult, shame, work, illness and meny others.


But there is a fact one is alone, others do not seek our company.


Here is a truth, when others meet us and leave feel worse then when they met us then they will stop meeting us.


Me Im one of the odd humans who like to larn and thing one can larn

every day of ones life, some years back I found that others disliked me


I was Aggressive, depressive, grupy, sharp, sarcastic, see I was in pain and I needed them to be in pain to, how could they be feeling OK dont then KNOW im on pain here. And why was I know on there mind 24/7

just as you said "I'm not in the front of their thinking".


Seeing my pain and what it was doing to me and relarning Peaple skills was the key.


When I met some one I forgot my problems and start to see who they really where and what where feeling.


I was once told one has 1 mouth and two ears, so one should always talk 1/3 of the time and let others talk.


Im I saying this is you, well from your post its one way to look at it, but I do know this that one can always rebiuld what has been broken,


You had a life with a woman how dead, that time precious but it is locked in time, you are in the here and now, and your mind set is yours to make, hold the past as the grate time it was but then look at the here and now.


You have another life this one where one can shine for others, some where in your home town or city is a place where the homeless come to get help, over xmass they always need staff, Some where out there is some one who needs you to talk to some one need help with a bed and food.


You have a life and you have time give some of that to acts that make you a better man in your own eyes. This is about doing things for you to make you feel like you are of use, that you can give even in the dark you are now.


You may feel your not a good man but that means nothing, we are our action in them you will find us.


I have 3 words that help me and let me stand even when others fall.


Truth, always be true to yourself and then others

Strenght, always be strong for your self and then others

Honor, always Honor your self for trying to do right and others who try to do the same.


I say them to my self when it gets bad it reminds me that my place is to show others what can be done, one can clime out of that pit and show the way.


Thats really what im asking of you is that a new life is starting, what that life is, is up to you, right now your alone but with some work and time that will change, and ask, ask others why they dont wont to be with you and lean not to be that person.


I am told now that I can go into a room and make freands where ever I go,

how you ask well I, ask others about them selfs and listen to what they say and I mean listen with true intarest.


at then end of the day its hope we seek and like luck we can make our own.

its all down to larning



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I truly understand the options you mentioned concerning being adrift from my children,but in my defense it would take a book to explain my efforts and love for my children.E.G. ex-wife tried to place our son in a Ky. state run institution behind my back during the divorse, on the grounds he was uncontrolable. The truth be told as in court records, she just wanted him out of the way because he and his sister protested to her about her new friends and using drugs at the house -friends? later arrested and sentenced on drug charges. She also wanted to make sure I wouldn't see him or possibly get custody. I did get full custody and we went to court ordered psych. personal and home evaluation which the doctors( team of 4 ) halted after one session and immediately informed the courts that my son and daughter and I have a great bond and understanding and I suggested my daughter be allowed to remain with her mother because my daughter didn't want to leave her friends.

My children grew -my son was in top 5% of his class and studied religion and went on to become a Mason. They asked him to ghostwrite a new history of the Masons since he was able to point out so many misconceptions and poor translations. He is still thinking on that. He had his own Mega-computer built and he has operations on the net that I cannot understand but taught himself with over three and onehalf bookshelves of computer literature manuals. IMy daughter grad. University of Louisville and became a very successful interior designer. I supported them both totally and have always been proud of them to the point (like now) of bragging about them.

I have been in Rx,retail and/or wholesale sales most of my adult life and have always been a people person.

This is a tip of my iceberg history. I do not and would not talk of my misfortunes to my friends unless specifically asked. I merely don't seem to be of interest to anyone. I sent Xmas cards and pictures of my friends on vacations with my wife and I(Sannibel Isle,Cancun,Playa del Carman,Anna Maria Isle and other locations).That togetherness has since evaporated.

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Concerning my ex-wife,she used every trick in the book along with her lawyer's help to cause as much commotion as possible.

E.G. told lawyer I said I was going to kick-in her door, thus police were waiting for me and would not let me near the house on the weekends of the court allowed children visitations. Then she told children "daddy must not love you too much,he won't even come to take you for the weekends.

This happened twice and children figured that mom was up to her old tricks

E.G.Opened my mailed paychecks and cashed them before I could get the address changed.

E.G.Tried to imply that I had relations with my daughter-both lawyers drew the line and prevented an ugly and life-damaging court hearing. My daughter even moved (age 9) to her nearby friends house for two weeks when she found out what her mother tried!

E.G.Ex was a Social Worker for Ky in Lousville. When my son visited after the divorse was final and I had total custody of him, she got him into a major argument and he walked out. She then called police and said he was a runaway and uncontrollable. They found him several blocks away and she had him placed in psyciatric ward of local hospital. She allowed them to use drugs and shock stimulation on him. I called to find out when my son wanted to come home from his visit and had to call an old friend to find out where my sonwas located.

When I learned the situation, I was livid and immediately employed an attorney, since we had moved to northern KY. I showed him my custody papers,which he had confirmed and he ,my wife and I all went to Louisville to get my son out of the hospital.

The ex had used her connections and the hospital refused to release my son. We had to return home and our attorney started paperwork and making many phone calls.It took 2 months to get my son back!

NOTE:5 hospital staff from Dr.s to admissions were discharged and we received an apology and Xmas cards from the hospital's home office over the next ten years.

This is just a sampling of how coniving and vindictive my ex was and still is today- thus I can't find my daughter and I am sure my ex is loving it.

Now, maybe you might better understand my total loneliness and need to seek another dimension. My finances are non-existent and job availabilty is very dismal. I interview (I always psyche myself up to be positive prior) and I get the "well we're really looking in a different direction other than your background". I am over 60 but in good health and decent looks , but I have to feel my age is detrimental to my being hired.

Talk about fuel on the fire!

As mentioned "life is a void where the quiet is deafening and the rooms are empty"

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Then I have to ask this, could it be that after your second wife died and they way in which her life ended that subconsously you have placed your self where you are now, that having for an X a woman who seems to cares so much for as you put it "Revenge" and from your posts it seems to the detrment of the well being of her own children, that deep down you feel you need or should be where you are now


when you said

"It has taken me a lot of counciling to accept that I didn't kill her,but I'm fairly settled with myself."


in that you must know the Kübler-Ross model "Five Stages of Grief"


Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."

Anger: "Why ME? It's not fair!" (either referring to God, oneself, or anybody perceived, rightly or wrongly, as "responsible")

Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my child(ren) graduate."

Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"

Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."


could it be that your in or around number 3 and 4, looking for help and feeling down, your family history is overlayed on this, with andX who, and can I ask was it you that left her? feels anger at you and your second wife.

If your Second wife was your main suport then you have been hit by a duble wammy. All this may have all reay been gone over but its a feeling I have from your posts.


What I feel this really means is your going to have to look at each problem one at a time, work is a factor as it related to self esteem, if you take the view that (and in your posts it seems that you may) family, freands, life and us are all rejecting you in the froms of you life then you place yourself in a very bad world view. One where you are worthless and the rest of humankind dontg care.


I would say your going to have to brake out of that mind set asap,

Your really do have worth, 60 years of wisdom in fact, If no one will hire you start your own bussness, I know a 60+ whos just one that V the web and ebay


If your children have cut you out of there lifes and you talk in passing of argumnets, they must have been very harsh, what did your kids say befor they walked away, what was there justification for not being there now you need them?


Your post on the other thread has given more info thank you.

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I'm sorry, but "start my own business?", in my financial straights I do not feel this would be possible. I am trying to be as realistic and honest as possible. This idea sounds great but it's like watching morning news and they suggest what to get your family for Xmas. They usually show items that a middle income family would have to go deeper in debt to obtain, but this fact always seems to be ignored. The show must go on and keep it's popularity (ratings) in tact.

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Im just throwing out idears some good some bad for you, others have started bussness on a nothing and I know after 40 years in sales you must have seen how things can be done better, Cinnacism is of use but when it shoots down homes and dreams what use is it really, anger, rage I can see them larking how much came out over time im sorry of this sound harsh its just a feeling.

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Hi...I know it's tough right now. You really shouldn't blame yourself for the reason why your daughter hasn't been active in your life all of these years. She probably has her own issues, and doesn't want to bother you with hers, because she knows that your probably dealing with a lot. I'm sure your son was communicating with her about your wife passing and what you are going through.


As far as your son, don't blame yourself for that either. He is an adult, just like you. It doesn't seem like he walked out, because he "hated" you or anything like that. He was probably just stressed out because of his own issues. I've known people like that. They shut other people out and walk away from people when times get hard. It's THEIR WAY of communicating, when in all actuality it's not a very effective way of speaking to people. I'm sure your son and your daughter have intentions on coming back into your life one day. You are all so very young. But how will that happen if you are contemplating committing suicide?


As much as you probably don't want to hear this, I think I need to say it. I've noticed a pattern in your family, and that pattern is "walking out". Not facing fears and hard times. Your daughter walked out because it was probably hard for her to stay around, your son is having difficulties (like everyone else in this world) and he walked out. Now, you are debating leaving this world, because you are going through financial difficulties and dealing with some depression.


Everyone handles depression and tough times differently, but I KNOW of other ways you could deal with yours. It will take a lot courage for you, because you probably aren't used to FULLY opening up to people. You seem like a hardworking man, one who has worked his whole entire life without asking people for help. That is why I'm very happy that you made the first step in coming here to this site. It has helped people. People have helped people. That's one thing you need to realize. People make this world go around, and it's OK to ask for some help when you need it.


Clearly, you are in dire need of help. Especially emotional help. You mentioned having a brother and a sister. I know it's probably been a while since you've actually saw them or spent any quality time with them, because as we get older--siblings tend to break away, kind of spread out. But, just picture those times when you were younger. If you were close to your siblings, you guys laughed and cried together. You grew up together. If their are anyone people in this world who are going to help you while you are dealing with your depression, it would be your sister and your brother.


Here's the thing though, you have to be willing to tell them EVERYTHING...That you are depressed, not doing too good, even tell them that you are contemplating suicide. You have to allow yourself to open up to them. I know it has been hard for you to probably do that, because you have probably bottled up all of your feelings since your wife has passed. But, you have to do this. You have to open up to someone so they will understand the FULL extent of your situation.


I know, telling family your business probably seems a little difficult, but in the end, it will be worth it. You will have the support of your family there to help you. You could even ask your brother or sister if you could stay with them for a while. I know that would probably be a little uncomfortable at first, but once you are back on your feet and clear of your emotional issues, you will feel so much better.



I hope this inspired you? I'm not great at giving out advice when it comes to people not feeling the need to live anymore, so I just write what comes to me. I've been through what you are going through, and worse. I have had some pretty TOUGH times in my life. I've always been strong and picked myself up, because I'm very independent and I know you are too. I know you will be capable of pulling yourself back together.


Merry Christmas,





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I really do appreciate the comments and am giving some of the ideas some thought. However, I have told my brother and sister what I am feeling and the fact that I tried ending this one year ago and failed. I woke up in the hospital and received counceling and therapy the past nine months. I try every day to think positive- check my E-Mail-check my search engines(5) for possible work-make a list or read the list from day before and start my chores around my house. I try to stay active and am a firm believer that work and/or exercise is a major means of staying healthy physically and mentally. My activities haven't ceased, but I guess the season is really dragging me down into a hole of futile hope and prayer- the loneliness is becoming more and more devestating. Sorry, but I'm really starting to breakdown as I write to you.

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