Do you think I cheated?

[wiser]

I'm in the process of getting divorced, after 18 years together. The reasons are many, but sexual infidelity isn't one of them. Or is it? STBXW brought this up on more than one occasion, during the last year or two of turmoil and in counseling. The counselor was rather neutral about it, probably because it happened at least 12 years ago and was not really contributroy to the demise of our marriage.

 

It seems to me like she was looking for more ammo to make me look like the "bad guy" in the breakdown of the marriage. So at this point, it's more of a "loose end", a chapter in the part of the book that I must close..as I move ahead in my attempt to write poetry..I mean... in an attempt to move on with my life...

 

Here goes:

 

I had an old high school friend, who I will call Ken, and his wife, who I will call Denise, because those are their real names and I don't give a crap, it was over 10 years ago and we no longer are in contact. Anyway, they lived out of state at the time, but we were in contact on a fairly regular basis and they visited from time to time. One day, Ken calls and says they will be down for the weekend, and he had an interesting proposition for me. He and his wife would be into a "three way". Not sure how far it would go, but why not do a bit of "experimenting".

 

My wife was of a fairly open and flexible nature, and she was ok with me partaking, as long as 1) she didnt want anything to do with it and 2) no having sex with the woman. She worked nights as an LPN, and wouldnt be around the night they would be over, which was just as well. So I tell Ken and Denise that I have the "green light" and they make plans to come visit the following weekend.

 

They come over, we start off on the couch, she's in the middle, he starts playing with her breasts, and he looks over at me and gives me the nod. I was thinking, this is so weird. I am just going to reach out and start playing with my friend's wife's boobs. So I went for it, half expecting her to hit my hand away. She didn't. They were quite hard. I found out later on that they were artificial, and back then they didn't have the realism of todays implants.

 

Anyway, things progressed, and my hands were between her legs, all over her breasts and nipples, she was moaning and squirming, and he suggested we go to the bedroom and put on a porn movie. So we do that, and continue in basically the same positions, her lying in the middle, and jerking both me and him off at the same time. So then we change positions, so we are both kneeling, one on either side of her. Shes jacking me off, and it feels so damn good to have a woman other than my wife with her hands on me...I close my eyes, and suddenly I feel one...two...three...four...hands? on me at the same time! I open my eyes and my friend Ken has his hands on my penis. Out of surprise and more than a little bit of disgust, I swat his hands away and say, "no helping!". She finishes jerking me off onto her boobs, and it was party over.

 

Later on he tells me that he "isnt gay", only "into experimenting". Right. The friendship was downhill after that.

 

Anyway, when I told my wife about it after the fact, she was furious and said that she "never thought I was serious about it".

 

So, is it "cheating"? Is it my fault that she didn't believe me? Was it wrong to even do it? What's your opinion?

 

Let's discuss.

[Snoopy24]

Well if your wife said "it's ok" then it is still cheating...with her permission, I guess you can say.

 

I do think you should have talked with her about it more. A lot of times us females will say "do what you want" Which really means "if you do that, you're in big trouble!"

[Censored]

Wiser, i think you of all people would know if she thought you were being serious!!! Are you using her flippant "go ahead" as an excuse? Or do you genu9nely believe that she had a full understanding of what you were talking about, AND that you were serious?

[Ampire]

Well if your wife said "it's ok" then it is still cheating...with her permission, I guess you can say.

 

I do think you should have talked with her about it more. A lot of times us females will say "do what you want" Which really means "if you do that, you're in big trouble!"

 

I think she is right.....but stupid that your wife is tryiing to use something from 12 years ago....

 

regardless, great story, 4 hands had me laughing!!!

 

god luck with everything, it must be hard...keep your head up!

[-BK-]

This is going to come down to personal definitions of what cheating is. In my eyes, this was cheating. Of course, I wouldn't have done it and would have been offended that my wife said it was OK. I'm not judging -- just giving an opinion.

 

More importantly, I'm sorry to hear about the divorce.

[Cardinal]

She gave you the go ahead, so from a logical standpoint you are in the clear.

 

But what you interpreted as a green light may have been a pretty strong red light. The 'you are in big trouble' line sounds familiar. Seems like a lot of times you just can't take a partner at their word when it is a sensitive issue like this.

[HellFrost666]

Well if she didn't think you were serious why would she lay down boundaries for you? She told you not to have sex with Denise, and you didn't.

 

It seems like maybe she told you to go ahead, but maybe didn't think you would. Then when you did she realized she wasn't as OK with it as she thought, and acted out in anger.

 

I agree it is stupid that she would use that against you, especially when it happened so long ago.

[Aleadragonhawk]

The boundaries of what cheating is is defined by each individual relationship. At the time your wife stated that she was okay with the situation, so long as there were certain restrictions in place, which you agreed with and held to. If she's retroactively angry, then the anger should really be directed at herself for consenting. It's like the old rape argument - it doesn't suddenly become rape because three days later you're regretting it and wish you'd said no, even though you said yes in the moment.

[greensleeves]

To me cheating is when you are being underhanded, sneaky and deceitful. You discussed this with your wife beforehand and she gave you the go ahead and outlined limitations that you stuck to. thereforeeee it is not cheating. Having said that, she could have been testing you to see if you would go through with it, but that is her issue because she went along with it so has to live with the consequences.

 

It also depends on what her definition of having sex was at the time....think Monica and Bill!

[TheSmilingTurnip]

I'm not sure if it was cheating or not. But it sounds like you really knew in the back of your mind that this wasn't quite kosher and you went ahead with it anyway. The way you wrote about it in your post, it sounds like you're not sure about it and that probably means that you knew at the time it was a bad idea.

 

Since you all are divorcing now, it's neither here nor there. However, to say it didn't contribute to the demise of your marriage? Wrong. Maybe not on *your* side, but it takes two to tango. Whether it was cheating or not, there's no question that your wife was hurt by it and that she harbored that resentment for all the years afterward. I bet she felt she couldn't trust you afterward, too. That's how I'd feel.

[sandyv]

^No disrespect Phreckles, but I'd say she isn't necessary hurt by this ancient so-called infidelity at all.

 

I'd say its more like ammunition for present circumstances myself????

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Anyway, when I told my wife about it after the fact, she was furious and said that she "never thought I was serious about it".

 

So, is it "cheating"? Is it my fault that she didn't believe me? Was it wrong to even do it? What's your opinion?

 

Let's discuss.

 

No offense taken. Everyone has a right to their opinion. But according to the OP^^ this woman has clearly been ticked off about the whole thing for many years. And it affected whether she could trust her husband, as he stated that she didn't believe him.

 

She didn't just now idly bring it up for ammunition. Why bother? They're divorcing. So who cares? Clearly, the OP has doubts about it too.

[sandyv]

Well from what Wiser said there wasn't a huge deal made of it afterwards (and why did she stay with him, if it was a problem?) ....

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Well from what Wiser said there wasn't a huge deal made of it afterwards (and why did she stay with him, if it was a problem?) ....

 

No, Wiser didn't say that. He said she was furious and didn't believe that he didn't go all the way. That is a huge deal.

 

And, in answer to your question of why stay with him? The waters were murky. She miscommunicated and didn't say what she really thought. Happens all the time. The resentment grew over time, which is as much her fault as anyone's. Not saying she's innocent in this, she should have resolved it, but in answer to Wiser's question, he didn't necessarily cheat, but yes, it probably was one thing that contributed to the demise of the marriage.

[sandyv]

O.K. I'm willing to agree with you to a point. But if I'd been Wiser's wife and I'd been THAT upset at the time, I would have trashed the relationship entirely.... not just temporarily...

 

Just my 2 cents.....

[TheSmilingTurnip]

I have to ask....why does it even matter now? Its sort of a moot point and a bit exploitive (posting the happs) on your part.

 

Yeah, I definitely didn't need to know the gory details. It felt inappropriate, honestly.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

O.K. I'm willing to agree with you to a point. But if I'd been Wiser's wife and I'd been THAT upset at the time, I would have trashed the relationship entirely.... not just temporarily...

 

Just my 2 cents.....

 

I agree, I would have worked it out and been assertive. But we're not her and everyone has different skill levels when it comes to emotions and how to run relationships properly. Personally, I'd never have said anything that could be interpreted as permission. But that's me and she obviously is different.

[wiser]

No, Wiser didn't say that. He said she was furious and didn't believe that he didn't go all the way. That is a huge deal.

 

You are putting words in my post. My wife never thought that I "went all the way with the chick".

 

Our marriage was relatively smooth up until a few years ago. I was experiencing some "work related stress" and associated anxiety and depression, which has plagued me a handful of times over the years.

 

I withdrew from her, and from the marriage, and when her sister died 2 years ago I didnt give her the support she needed. She used to always talk about how I would come home from work, and she would be all dressed up and pretty (she did) and I would basically ignore her, and eat dinner and then go on the computer or something.

 

She was a compulsive spender and racked up credit card debt into the tens of thousands and kept it secret and tried to pay the bills out of the household budget without telling me, but I found out about it and there were serious blowouts over it.

 

She was always very overpermissive with the kids, letting them stay home at the drop of a hat, I tended to "rule with an iron hand" and we fought about that too.

 

The threesome thing was mentioned a few times over the years but was never the cause of an argument after the fact, until she threw it out in counseling along with her list of other complaints about me.

[sandyv]

^^^

 

I Rest My Case...

 

 

TaDa....

[JadedStar]

The threesome thing was mentioned a few times over the years but was never the cause of an argument after the fact, until she threw it out in counseling along with her list of other complaints about me.

 

This is not uncommon in break ups of this magnitude. It also probably did cause some resentment on her part that she didn't completely vocalize in the marriage because she knew deep down she played a part in it by "okaying" it. Now that there is a divorce on the table she is going to let it all out....

 

She was not innocent tho because I can assure you if my husband asked me about a threesome like that he'd probably wonder why his head was in the tub and his body was on the couch!! Figuratively speaking of course.

[sandyv]

 

 

Just gotta Love it JS!

[TheSmilingTurnip]

You are putting words in my post. My wife never thought that I "went all the way with the chick"

 

You said she didn't believe you. What were you referring to her not believing? Pardon me if I didn't understand what aspect of the situation she didn't believe you about. Either way, it was a bigger deal for her than perhaps you want to admit? I don't know, it was your marriage and your life and I wasn't there. I can only surmise.

 

I understand you're hurting about the divorce. I'm sorry for your loss, and it is always a loss, with hurts on both sides, that's for sure.

 

You wanted to know if it was cheating, but it seems the bigger issue is denial that it could have contributed to the end of the marriage. It took a long while for me to admit my part of the demise of my marriage too.

 

You don't need anyone here to tell you that you cheated or didn't cheat. You know what it was or was not, if you are honest with yourself. It's a question only you can answer, frankly. Divorce is hard and I just hope you give yourself plenty of time to work through all the feelings it will bring up.

 

My daughter wants to put the bat smiley in.

[wiser]

he'd probably wonder why his head was in the tub and his body was on couch!!

 

uh...which head, Jaded?

[JadedStar]

uh...which head, Jaded?

 

WISER! LOL

 

I am not Lorena Bobbitt!!!

 

It would be severed at the neck silly. Figuratively speaking of course~!!!!!!!!!!!

[jengh]

I don't think you were cheating. You told your wife, she gave you the stipulations, you followed said stipulations. She got mad and jealous afterwords. Not your fault. For her to be holding this over your head as ammo is unfair.