Problem with friend from work, who is also friends with my ex

[No Spaces Rob]

Ah crap this has turned into a long post.

 

In a recent thread in healing after breakup I wrote about how my girlfriend broke up with me a few months ago. She now works with me full time which is awkward. But this thread is not about her but it's about another friend from work - a friend of both of us.

 

The friend is female, about my age and was close friends with my girlfriend and I when we were together.

 

When it is just her that I'm with she is a good friend. I go to the gym with her and it is fine.

 

But when both of them are together it is like she is trying to 'compete' against me. She's very critical of everything I do and makes a point of sharing private jokes with my ex. I caught her saying that I wasn't a real man yesterday, which is what brought on this post. At other times she has criticised me for being weak at the gym, not being able to leg press much, and has criticised me for lots of things at work and basically just made me feel like a worthless and hopeless human being because I am single, or because I don't have a master's degree, or because I don't have as much experience as her public speaking, I am male (she is feminist so all men are creeps), etc. Or that I don't have a chronic illness and she does. She is always going on about that. At work my ideas are shot down because they are all, for some reason or another, stupid and so we go with her ideas. She argues with me over tiny little trivial things. For example yesterday she made me feel bad about saying that 180cm is less than 6 foot. Which it is, but she was explaining it to me like a child that I can't be 180cm tall, because that is 6 foot, and I am certainly not 6 foot. In reality of course, 180cm is 5'10", so she was wrong, but I just don't like the way she argues about stuff like that and the way in which she does it, like I am an ignorant person and she is correcting my ignorance. All I said was that I had to write down 180cm as my height on a form, but she took it as an opportunity to argue with me about how high that actually is, and also point out with delight how short I am (despite being 5'10", I am taller than her and everyone else I work with, so I don't know what's wrong with being only 5'10" tall anyway).

 

She and my ex seem to have a weird relationship. She is openly bisexual. She has made various passes at my ex, usually under the pretense of a joke (but one time it kinda turned into a big 'issue'). She was, I felt, quite unsupportive of me when I was grieving over my ex breaking up with me, as if she was siding with my ex. And I feel that she really has strong feelings for my ex. It all comes down to me feeling as if I have to tag along with them, but I am most certainly the third wheel. That's stupid - if I go to lunch with friends I shouldn't be the odd one out that everyone picks on - it is like school all over again.

 

What's more, I don't think she is enjoying life much at the moment. She may be depressed. She whines about how fat she is (she isn't, and she goes to the gym heaps) and she sleeps in to around midday, missing hours of work everyday. At my old work she'd have been disciplined about that. And she points out at every opportunity that she has a chronic illness, it's her favourite topic of conversation, and I think she makes it into a big issue - that people don't have the right to question her about her behaviour because she has a chronic illness.

 

When I am with just one of the two of them, all's fine and we are friends. I really like her, and want to continue being friends with her, like when it is just us two. But when they are together I feel like I am in a constant battle to prove that I am not the worthless 'man' that she thinks I am.

 

I go to lunch with them every day and it has got to the point where I now dread doing so, because it just makes me feel bad for the rest of the day. But the friend has told me before that I should keep doing so, or it would 'send the wrong message'. As in, if I didn't go to lunch with them she would probably b**** about why, like she did with another workmate who used to come with us and stopped (and who ultimately resigned).

 

It all sounds so surreal and crazy that most of my friends think I am just blowing it out of proportion, but regardless of what the reality or the intent is, it is still giving me tons of grief and I want to start feeling better about myself.

 

I would really appreciate any of you replying to my thread - in particular I want to know how to deal with something like this when she teases me about 'not being a real man' or tells me that an idea I have is stupid or starts arguing with me about something trivial I said or something like that. Or how I could get out of going to lunch with them but still remain friends with both of them.

[ftheunion]

Don't play games like she does. Just tell it. Then you will feel better. I don't think she is a friend. The best thing is to create NC. It may be hard because of work.

[No Spaces Rob]

Don't play games like she does. Just tell it. Then you will feel better. I don't think she is a friend. The best thing is to create NC. It may be hard because of work.

NC with my workmate? Then how are we supposed to work together? Tell what?

 

Can anyone else give me any advice?

[parralax]

Look she sounds like bad news to me. Just because she is a feminist she should not be going around dissing men. I'm a feminist and I love men - I think they are more fabulous than fabulous. She does not sound like much fun to be around, and there seems to be come weird competition with you for your ex. She sounds like she has issues - can you just very slowly dial back the social interaction - why should you go and have lunch with someone who makes you feel bad? Maybe you could just go to fewer lunches. Can you schedule meetings outside of the office for just before lunch to escape? Are there a lot of people who work at your company - can you lunch with other people? And why did the person who used to lunch with you resign?

[No Spaces Rob]

The other person didn't really fit in. She didn't so much resign as just not try to renew her contract. However my friend who we are talking about was quite * * * * * y behind her back. A bit racist. But that is another story.

 

Thanks for your advice. I have been planning to try and come up with reasons not to have lunch so much. Strange that i am actually more comfortable around my ex than her since the break up!

 

Not sure about going to the gym with her. I don't want to stop going to the gym!

[parralax]

As for the person who left - think about why she did not really fit in. This friend of yours was b****ing about her behind her back, was a bit racist. Maybe this is less of another story than you think.

 

Your friend sounds like a bully to me by the way. What she has said to you is actually quite offensive.

 

As for the gym thing - go to a different one.

[No Spaces Rob]

Thanks for your replies. With regard to the other friend, she was a very different personality to the rest of us so I don't think it is a huge deal or surprise she didn't fit in - you don't have to be close friends with everyone at work. I was just a little uncomfortable at times when people made comments about her behind her back, sometimes about her race or religion.

 

The main friend in question has quite a big personality. So it kind of makes her the dominant person in any conversation. She has been a really good friend to me and has been hospitable both when i was with my girlfriend and since. Except that it seems to be changing. I'm not sure how much of it is my perception. But it does really get me down. She's the kind of person who you wouldn't want to cross because she is quite harsh and judgemental about people she dislikes. I probably make her sound bad here.

 

In terms of office politics her position is slightly better than mine in terms of pay and qualifications but we have the same boss. She got quite upset when i was invited to something that she wasn't even though we are in different areas of expertise and it regularly happens the other way. She is invited to heaps of things. Also it was the kind of thing anyone who showed an interest in could get invited to and i told her this but she said she was so offended already and she wouldn't beg. It feels a little bit like that's when this started, but i don't think it is just that. It's probably also that i an too nice a person and she knows i'll take it. Seems like she feels i am a competitor, both at work and also for friendship with my ex.

 

But as i said cos of her strong personality and dominance it makes the thought of her not liking someone a more scary thought. This probably sounds like I am being really harsh on my friend - sorry about the tone.

[parralax]

I have had an experience that I put in this post:

 

 

 

This person was competitive with me for people's attention, dominant in conversation and judgemental of others. Was professionally unsupportive and jealous when good things came my way - when nominated for an award I received a tirade about how worthless the awards were and no congratulations.

 

You have stated that you are afraid of what it would be like to be disliked by this person, not a good sign.

 

I suppose it is a matter about whether you can manage her of if her behaviour escalates. I also thought that perhaps I was misinterpreting what was going on - I doubted myself, and also thought that maybe it was happening to me because I was too nice. Would have said that this person was a good friend to me too - but it shifted into hostility like a change in the weather. Hope you are able to manage her.

[No Spaces Rob]

Hi all, I am still trying to sort out my situation.

 

To clarify the situation from last week where she said I wasn't a real man. It was at a christmas function. My ex wanted my opinion 'as a man' on whether someone was a good dancer, and the friend said 'I told you to ask a real man'. She and my ex laughed.

 

I have spoken to a couple of people about it.

 

I actually went and saw a psychologist about this among other things, who told me that the comment was actually quite a nasty one. I am a sensitive person, and a friend would most likely realise this. The comment was, in the very best case, 'highly insensitive', if not malicious.

 

However, a close friend of mine who I trust said that the comment was probably intended as a joke, and told me that I have a tendency to take those sorts of things too seriously.

 

And lastly of course parralax here in this thread feels she is bad news.

 

I am still really worried about it, so whatever the explanation I need to find a way to cope with it, and that way cannot involve cutting her out of my life or ceasing the friendship, because that would cause too much trouble, particularly as we work together and have other friends together. We need a healthy relationship in order to work and socialise together.

 

What do I say or do when that sort of thing happens? It only happens in front of other people, as I mentioned; when it is just her and I everything is fine. So I never feel as if I can just plainly and honestly tell her that I don't like it when she says that kind of thing, because are other people around and they joined in the laughter (which I 'sort of' join in on, just to fit in). I feel rotten that I have stewed over this so much and actually haven't told her how much it offends me, but I am scared to say anything, mostly because whenever it happens there are other people present, and later on I feel too much like I am overreacting. So obviously I have no idea how to handle it. I'd call it bullying if this wasn't a close friend of mine and I have doubts about whether I am overreacting.

 

So how should I react if it happens again?

 

So anyway, since then my friend has seemed as friendly as ever in many ways. She invited me to go to a christmas function with her and her partner yesterday, which I went to. It was good. She also invited me (and my ex) to dinner on Monday. And she has been as keen as ever for me to come to the gym with her. So, I'll be doing something with her more weeknights than not over the past couple of weeks.

 

On the other hand, she brought up the thing about me not being a real man again last night, again in front of my ex and some other people. It's kind of like - you know how some people use self-effacing humour - she uses humour that makes fun of me.

 

Sorry I'm kinda desperate for some advice here.

[parralax]

Look - you are a real man. These kind of cracks about someone's masculinity it a pretty low blow in my opinion. And what, pray tell, is her definition of a "real man".

 

When you say that you think that her behaviour would be bullying "if she were not a close friend" - I have to say, close friends can and do bully. The relative closeness of your relationship does not mean that her behaviour is not bullying.

 

As for your friend who said that you are sensitive, it was a joke and that you have taken it too seriously. Well, its not a very funny joke, and people can often use humour as a weapon.

 

Perhaps what is comes down to is that you don't feel like you know what to say - its a pretty hard thing to call someone on, especially when others are prepared to play along. You are in a bind. I'd love to tell you how to handle this well but to tell you the truth, I failed utterly at dealing with my former friend. Keep having to deal with the consequences too. Can tell you about those if you PM me, so you can get an idea of what can happen if you end a friendship with a female bully...up to you though.

 

My suggestions are as follows:

 

Could you try the "whan you say insert phrase here it makes me feel insert feeling here", when you are alone, actually bail her up and talk to her about it. This is a grown up way of handling it. She might actually be quite surprised that she is offending you.

 

Or maybe you could, in the group, just do a deadpan, very calm, don't look away, don't get angry and hold your ground and say - "I don't actually find that funny." Because its not. It really isn't. But then again, this might provoke her.

 

I want to say to you that your friends should be good and kind to you, not put you down. If you are finding it this upsetting then it has to be addressed in some way. From her behaviour she might have a problem with relational aggression - this can rule some women. Would suggest looking it up and reading up on it, it might help you get some understanding here...