Where do i start with this mess?

[chitown]

My girlfriend and I have been together for 2 years now. I am now 30 and she is 28. When we met both of us were very social, outgoing and I was very single not having a girlfriend for 3 years (hiding behind a former heartbreak unable to commit). Unbenounced to me she was fresh out of a 4 year relationship, but we will get to that part. So get your popcorn and enjoy the rollercoaster of my last two years.

 

 

We actually met online randomly and after a few weeks of witty banter we agreed to meet on a date. Our date was instant fireworks, we both were looking for someone to challenge us, and we both were so fun together, and easy going from the start! The type of date where people look at you and say, wow you guys are alot of fun and seem like you have known each other forever! She spent the weekend (no sex) and both of us knew that things were good! A few weeks later and a few crazy dates and times later i started getting the old cold feet again. I told her about my phobia of commitment was very up front about it all, however in my heart i did not want to run. She did not and pursued me. She was smitten with me and obviously in love, even though it was never said. I was standoffish and this went on for several months. Long story short, I decided %^& my fears and I told her i loved her. And i did love her. this came after two weekends apart, her in Cali for a bachelorette party, and i the following week in Vegas. That following weekend i sat her down and told her how i felt and that i want to be together. Her reply was not what i expected.

 

Several weeks go by and i have my suspiciion that something is wrong, i do some investigation and soul searching and determine that she has met someone else, after a few more weeks i ask her about us and when she feins, i ask her about another guy, she denys. a few more weeks and my suspicion is confirmed, she met someone in Cali. I ask her again and she admits, that because i was pushing her away and this guy showed immediate interest that she was floored. Up until now no cheating (physically) has gone on.

 

It was a few weeks prior that i started seeing a therapist, at the suggestion of my girlfriend to A) help me get over my phobia and B) address the issues why i dont trust her. Basically she reccomended i see a therapist on the guize that I was crazy for thinking she was seeing someone else. It was good advice none the less, even though she lied as to why i should go.

 

I told her i would wait for her, and prove to her how i feel....Believe me I did.

 

Basically this guy came to town, and the advice of my therapist was to not give her an ultimatum, but let her test her feelings. I did that. A few weeks later he bought her a ticket to see him in Cali...she went, but regretted it immediately asking me to buy her a ticket home before she got off the plane...i did not pick the phone up. Finallly after that trip things were good..or so i thought. From Sept to Dec she had an emotional fling with this guy behind my back...XMAS rolls around and he is back in town to visit family..i finally give her an ultimatum. "If you see him over this break, you will never see me again." Well she saw him. I am not sure of the details but she went home for XMAS and broke down to her family about it all. Her mom called me begging me to not leave her. Spouting something about unconditional love... Now she finally opened up and admitted her faults. She broke down and was weeping bitterly for hours. True remorse.

 

You ask yourself why i put up with it? I blamed myself for pushing her away and into this guys life...

 

I was so lovestruck with her and wanted her so badly that i took her back.

And although she became a model girlfriend, the trust was broken. Things were great on the surface, but deep down i just had doubts, even though she was finally showing me everything i always wanted her too. Enter year two. Things were good and uneventful for a long time. We slowly built back our trust and relationship. However other things started to lack, like sex, and affection on her part. Long story short, the relationship slowly deteriorated because she could not communicate to me (she admits it).

 

To wrap this up, on her birthday of all days, and after months of her not being able to communicate what she is feeling, she says that she has to let me go. We end it. I am a perfect gentleman and she is floored that I am ok with it.

 

A few weeks go by, and i am not heartbroken like i have been in the past, i am strong. I am doing the things to distract me like i should be and completely moving on. I met another girl, a great girl and we went on a few dates.

 

Now my ex comes back into the picture saying how sorry she is, and how she is in therapy over this. At this point i have truly moved on. I tell her this, and i say that she needs some time to herself to figure everything out. In the heat of the moment we had sex. after a few more weeks she slowly ingratiates herself back into my life and is now in the process of trying to woo me back. Again she is being a model girlfriend, and if i were to believe she could maintain, we woudl have a shot. But i have these nagging questions, like will she dump me or will this happen again? if so would i be surprised? am i really in love with her?

 

stuff like that. I am on the fence over this, I just need some advice.

[fivespot]

Hmmmm...all I can say is this sort of thing must be going around. Because she sounds exactly like my ex.

 

As my friend put it, "wow, a girl that doesn't know what she wants. Imagine that!"

 

Sorry I don't have any advice. I'm going through pretty much the same thing (though I must admit I don't think I've even begun to move on yet) since last year.

 

Normally I'd say let her go and move on...but it seems they have manipulation down to an art.

[chitown]

Manipulation is right on the money!

 

I could give you about 50 examples of things she has done that i would consider manipulation. Most recently, she is saying she loves me all the time, and is giving me hell that i cant say it back...basically forcing me to submission...

 

so tell me about yours...perhaps i can help..i may be further along in the process and can provide advice.

[ycmanvs]

My question is: what happened to the other girl? The new one you were seeing? I hope you are not cheating on her with your ex?

 

Do you want to go back to your ex? If you do, then you both need couples' counseling at this point. You said that she is in therapy, but it takes more than a few sessions to get to the root of a problem.

[fivespot]

Well, me and my ex were friends since college. I always had feelings, but for some reason, she always stayed away. Well, we kept in touch for the past 5 years, but finally, last year we hung out and ended up having sex.

 

From that point, she was absolutely "in love" with me....for about 3 months. Then things started going down hill. She started spouting off things like she wants to be single, blah blah blah.

 

This went on pratically all year. She was hot one month, cold the next. It was spotted, because we went to mexico together for vacation. Then the next month she didn't want to have anything to do with me. Then, a month after that she's like "oh, what a mistake I made, I'm absolutely in love with you," you know, a pure psycho.

 

We've now been in NC (not the first time, mind you) for about 17 days and I think I'm doing well. I have no desire to contact her. This last episode was about her completely pulling away and her telling me she never loved me at all and she doesn't have time for me anymore.

 

I should be heartbroken about the whole thing, but the sad part is I've come to expect this.

[chitown]

My question is: what happened to the other girl? The new one you were seeing? I hope you are not cheating on her with your ex?

 

Do you want to go back to your ex? If you do, then you both need couples' counseling at this point. You said that she is in therapy, but it takes more than a few sessions to get to the root of a problem.

I broke it off with the new girl, saying that i am just out and I am not as ready to date other people as i thought i was. She was graceful and left the door open for future communication. But i am very big on not complicating the situation with other people.. for the record I have never cheated on anyone, it makes it hard for me to get past some of the things my ex has done.

[fivespot]

By the way chitown, welcome to enotalone.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Well, do you want to be with someone who considers cheating and manipulation to be a way of life? Could you marry someone like that or commit to someone like that?

 

What kind of person do *you* want and does she fit the bill?

 

Don't settle for a cheater/manipulator/liar because you're afraid you won't find someone as good again. I speak from experience; you *will* find someone who's even greater.

 

Oh, and if she has work to do in therapy, she can't do it while she's in a relationship. She's going to need a lot of time to work out her problems - she's learned to be like this over 28 years of life experience - she won't solve her problems overnight.

 

So consider these factors and then you should have enough information for a decision.

[chitown]

Well, do you want to be with someone who considers cheating and manipulation to be a way of life? Could you marry someone like that or commit to someone like that?

 

What kind of person do *you* want and does she fit the bill?

 

Don't settle for a cheater/manipulator/liar because you're afraid you won't find someone as good again. I speak from experience; you *will* find someone who's even greater.

 

Oh, and if she has work to do in therapy, she can't do it while she's in a relationship. She's going to need a lot of time to work out her problems - she's learned to be like this over 28 years of life experience - she won't solve her problems overnight.

 

So consider these factors and then you should have enough information for a decision.

I agree with you, however is it possible that she is not lying this time and has "truly grown up" as she puts it? SHe says she was torn between growing up and staying young, stuff like that. Basically i do not want to have all this time invested only to throw it away when we are finally aligned. I know ( i sound like the stereotypical defender of her actions). Admittedly we have both helped each other grow, through pain and genuine love, but i just wonder if success is possible at this point.

[ycmanvs]

I agree with you, however is it possible that she is not lying this time and has "truly grown up" as she puts it? SHe says she was torn between growing up and staying young, stuff like that. Basically i do not want to have all this time invested only to throw it away when we are finally aligned. I know ( i sound like the stereotypical defender of her actions). Admittedly we have both helped each other grow, through pain and genuine love, but i just wonder if success is possible at this point.

 

That is why I suggested couples therapy where you can explore these questions with a trained professional who can evaluate her, and your relationship.

[chitown]

That is why I suggested couples therapy where you can explore these questions with a trained professional who can evaluate her, and your relationship.

Will a couples therapist acutually provide answers? Or are they objective. Basically I would want a therapist to tell me if the relationship is %^&ed or not. Or how sucessfull reconciliation is after this much has happened.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

I agree with you, however is it possible that she is not lying this time and has "truly grown up" as she puts it? SHe says she was torn between growing up and staying young, stuff like that. Basically i do not want to have all this time invested only to throw it away when we are finally aligned. I know ( i sound like the stereotypical defender of her actions). Admittedly we have both helped each other grow, through pain and genuine love, but i just wonder if success is possible at this point.

 

It's possible she's not lying. But has she suddenly, magically grown up in a very short time? No. I know that I don't know this person but I can tell you that being an adult and finally growing up is a process that takes time. How long has she been in therapy? What does your therapist think of this?

 

Success is possible if she's truly changed, but there's no way for you to really know that except through her actions. AND can you just forget her past actions? You have to decide whether you can trust her again.

[chitown]

It's possible she's not lying. But has she suddenly, magically grown up in a very short time? No. I know that I don't know this person but I can tell you that being an adult and finally growing up is a process that takes time. How long has she been in therapy? What does your therapist think of this?

 

Success is possible if she's truly changed, but there's no way for you to really know that except through her actions. AND can you just forget her past actions? You have to decide whether you can trust her again.

I have been out of therapy for some time, aparrently my therapist thought i had an "adjustment disorder" basically the mildest clinical diagnosis to get my insurance to cover the visits. THe latest with her....her company just got bought out by another bank and her insurance does not cover her former therapist so she is working on getting one... a stall tactic? I dont know. You are correct...i need to decide if i can even trust her, or look at her the same ever again. SHe has mistreated me so badly for so long, and now acts shocked that I do not reciprocate her feelings because she "finally figured it out".. Still...i cannot imagine life without her...i hope that is not my reason for sticking in this..the lonliness.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

I have been out of therapy for some time, aparrently my therapist thought i had an "adjustment disorder" basically the mildest clinical diagnosis to get my insurance to cover the visits. THe latest with her....her company just got bought out by another bank and her insurance does not cover her former therapist so she is working on getting one... a stall tactic? I dont know. You are correct...i need to decide if i can even trust her, or look at her the same ever again. SHe has mistreated me so badly for so long, and now acts shocked that I do not reciprocate her feelings because she "finally figured it out".. Still...i cannot imagine life without her...i hope that is not my reason for sticking in this..the lonliness.

 

Oh trust me, you can imagine life without her...didn't you say you had almost moved on?

 

The way you express yourself with regard to her shows that you don't trust her. Without trust, there can be no love. There can be a relationship as an answer to loneliness, as an answer to the fear of being without this person, but there cannot be love without trust.

 

You are really the key to this, not her so much. Your gut is telling you something, hence the doubts. Try to really listen and you might consider writing about this problem. What does this relationship do to you? What does it do for you? What would getting back together do TO you? What would it do FOR you?

[chitown]

Oh trust me, you can imagine life without her...didn't you say you had almost moved on?

 

The way you express yourself with regard to her shows that you don't trust her. Without trust, there can be no love. There can be a relationship as an answer to loneliness, as an answer to the fear of being without this person, but there cannot be love without trust.

 

You are really the key to this, not her so much. Your gut is telling you something, hence the doubts. Try to really listen and you might consider writing about this problem. What does this relationship do to you? What does it do for you? What would getting back together do TO you? What would it do FOR you?

Sage advice PhrecklesRSexy....Sage advice.

 

One struggle in my head, how could something that at one time have so much meaning (literally redefining my life) now be unmeaningful.

 

I struggle to understand that the reasons in the beginning she was so strong and understanding, were in fact her own weaknesses shining. I believe she is sincere about wanting to try. It is her reasons why that I do not trust, and that I think she does not fully understand herself yet. The question i keep asking myself, if she did it again would i really be surprised? It is hard to look at myself in the mirror and face that reality. At one time I was so in love with her.

[ycmanvs]

Sage advice PhrecklesRSexy....Sage advice.

 

One struggle in my head, how could something that at one time have so much meaning (literally redefining my life) now be unmeaningful.

 

I struggle to understand that the reasons in the beginning she was so strong and understanding, were in fact her own weaknesses shining. I believe she is sincere about wanting to try. It is her reasons why that I do not trust, and that I think she does not fully understand herself yet. The question i keep asking myself, if she did it again would i really be surprised? It is hard to look at myself in the mirror and face that reality. At one time I was so in love with her.

 

 

Life is a process. People grow, change, etc. Some grow together and some grow apart. Only time will tell if your ex has truly matured and changed. You must make a choice: either you stay and wait to see, or you walk away from this mess, and feel the loneliness for a bit, and move on.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Sage advice PhrecklesRSexy....Sage advice.

 

One struggle in my head, how could something that at one time have so much meaning (literally redefining my life) now be unmeaningful.

 

I struggle to understand that the reasons in the beginning she was so strong and understanding, were in fact her own weaknesses shining. I believe she is sincere about wanting to try. It is her reasons why that I do not trust, and that I think she does not fully understand herself yet. The question i keep asking myself, if she did it again would i really be surprised? It is hard to look at myself in the mirror and face that reality. At one time I was so in love with her.

 

I know just how I feel. I felt that way with my ex boyfriend who cheated on me a few times. We were so great together to start with and so in love, I thought. I gave him chance after chance. He cheated for the last time and I *still* considered taking him back, but through NC and the support of my friends, I moved on instead. To this day, I sometimes think back fondly on things that happened during our relationship. But the relationship was not something that could survive when one looked at the facts of the matter.

 

You can stay - it's ok to make that choice. You can leave and find someone else. Either way, you're going to learn something, life is going to go on, and you're going to get older.

AND don't forget, you don't have to choose today. You don't have to choose this week either. You can take your time making this choice. Be frank with her that you're going to take your time. There's nothing wrong with that, and since she has damaged your trust in her, she should certainly understand why you are taking your time. In the meantime, examine yourself and think, and be open to new gut feelings and intuitive thoughts about it. You never know...