Religions, spirituality, mysticism... Speak your mind...

[OmegaMan]

Genesis

 

Here is my post again. I am sorry if you felt that I was insulting you in the last post. That was not my intention.

 

Good, no problem. I think we both got carried away.

 

I have gone to church since I was a young girl, but I gave my life to christ at the age of 15. I went to church for many years without listening to any of the messages. When my mother died, I was angry at God for taking her away from me so, I did not go to church for a couple of years. Then one day my father asked me why have I not given my life to Christ yet. I told him because I was not ready yet. My father is a man who many consider manly man. A man who is 6'2 230 pounds, a former college football player, a former nuclear weapons officer in the Army, and engineer.

 

I have never seen him emotional before but he cried about me not being saved. He wanted all his children to be Christians, and I was the only one who would not join the church. I have never seen him cry before, he even keep his emotions inside at my mothers funeral. To see someone have such strong emotion about me becoming a member of the church made me think about joining my church. A year later I decided to give my life to Christ. It was my choice to join the church.

 

I don't want to get into your personnal life, because what you share here, the death of your mother, is very personnal. Which Is why I don't want to use that in this discussion. I will only say this, Is there a extremely remote possibility that this event was what made you join your church. This terrible event, the loss of your mother.

 

Here's how I see it. If I lost my mother, I would be tempted to join some organised religion to find comfort for something that felt like so much sadness to me. And If I saw my father as a very religious man, who cried over the fact that I would not be saved by Christ, this would influence me a lot in joining a church. As you've said, you didn't pay attention to the messages before.

 

Now, you don't have to reply to this, no need. This will be my last post about the subject. These two factors I've just mentionned, sound to me like some very enticing for anyone to join a religion. I know many people who joined or seeked an organised religion in the moment that they had to live through a crisis. Maybe just think about that, but I think you'll reject that with the back of your hand. Still, I thought I would mention it.

 

I do think for myself. You can not prove in anyway that I do not think for myself.

 

Allow me to settle this once and for all, as this is my last post. Maybe you are thinking for yourself, maybe you have chosen Christianity with a complete open mind and no exterior factor affected you, maybe you were mature enough and knew enough about yourself when you were 15 to decide to join your church, maybe you question everything there is in the bible. Maybe. But no matter what I say, you will reply that you think for yourself. No many people would admit that they never learned to think by themselves because all of their psyche is built upon what their parents have said and what church have said. And as they grow older, they never question those learnings and keep getting told what to do, what to think by others. I am NOT saying this is your case, you'll be the judge for that. I will not put any time or efforts to convince you otherwise, live your life as you will and I shall live mine as I see fit.

 

People of the church do not all think collectively so there again you are wrong. Christians all have their own opinions about the text of the Bible. Your are just making a generilzing statements, because you do not know enough about the Bible, to support your argument.

 

Tell me, to say that ALL christians of the world have their own self-made opinion, isn't that a generalisation. You won't admit that though, so why bother.

 

As I said before the preparations for Judgment Day are written in the book of Revelation. Your opinions of the Bible are not all accurate, because you have not read enough of it to know what is going on.

 

Are yours? How can you say an opinion is accurate if not based on facts? My point is, what is said in the bible shouldn't taken to the word, if it's said satan will take the form of a nine headed dragon, it doesn't mean that he will literaly be this way. And so on from the rest of it. But you ahve decided that the bible tells us exactly what's gonna happen, and you and I both know that you will not change your mind. What's the point?

 

Jesus making parables through out the entire book. The Bible is broken up into the Old Testament (39 books) and the New Testament (27 books). The Bible begins with creation, and then speaks about the events and lives of many people, that spans out for thousands of years before Jesus Christ was even born. Jesus' life is not discussed in the Bible until the New Testament. The Bible was being written thousands of years BEFORE Jesus was born.

 

That's not the point, you still think everything is written there is the golden truth, as it is. You read it, you think well, this is how Jdgement day will be. There's nothing I can say against that as you have decided it is that way period.

 

You are presumptous to think that people DO NOT, question every sentence in the Bible.

 

Very well, you tell me one part of the bible you disagree with or have made your very own personnal interpretation. I think some people do not question what is said in that book, for the good reason that I've met some. This entitles to make that statement withtout being presumptous as you like to say it.

 

Like I said before I do not think that the supernatural is meant for the living to understand only the dead. Just as we live in this tiny solar system there are solar systems, and galaxies light years away, that we can never understand or learn more about because we are not capable of doing that right now. We know that they are there, we just cannot explore them to detail.

 

Yes, I agree with that.

 

Yes, heaven and hell are supernatural . Like I said before, if you have never experienced the supernatural then you could not believe in it, I have. I have experienced the presense of an demonic force trying to enter my body.

 

Ok, so you are saying that I cannot understand the concept of heaven and hell because, contrarily to you, I've never lived through a possesssion. You've lived a possession experience, so you understand the surnatural. Even if you believe/understand the surnatural, the concept of heaven and hell is too human to me. Sorry. We've had this argument over and over and you've proven nothing to me about this point. Although you've made me change my mind about other thing about religion. It's too bad you didn't change your mind about any of your beliefs, even in details, well that's I think.

 

Yes, heaven and hell are supernatural . Like I said before, if you have never experienced the supernatural then you could not believe in it, I have. I have experienced the presense of an demonic force trying to enter my body. The demon spoke to me in Latin and some foreign language. I could not see anything but I felt its presense, it was like cold air flushing over my head. The spirit tried to push itself into my body, I felt the pressure of its force. It was trying to force itself into me to no avail. I rebuked the demon in the name of Jesus Christ, and I have never heard from it since. It may sound odd or crazy, but I really experienced this. I never would have believed that something of that nature could be possiable before, until it happened to me. I consider myself as a person of a sound mind; I am not crazy or have schizophrenia. So I do not want to hear you reply with maybe your crazy. The fact that this is my experience alone makes me believe in the supernatural. I questioned demon possession too, I felt like it was just made up for movies. Just a form Sci-Fi to entertain us, but now I know that there are demonic forces in this world.

 

I won't call you crazy. However, I don't believe in this. It would be so interesting to me believe in demons and angels, but everything in my body screams to me those are farytales. You, however believe in that and it is important to you, so I believe that.

 

Yes, anyone can just write anything. Some people do just write anything you have to judge what you think is real and what is not real. The fact that I have been approached by an evil force, makes me see how this book about an exorcism may be true.

 

May be true, do I hear a doubt among all those certitudes? Probably just a visual mistake. But if you manage to at least show doubt among some things in your religion, I'm glad for that.

 

When too many coninidences happen at one time, I would think that there is a reason behind this occurrence. That is my belief. I know that these people were guided by God. The "details" of the experience were not something, that I would think would happen to too many people.

 

I don't think it happened to many people, because there are so many coincidences. Just like not everyone wins the lotto. This is probably why such an experience didn't happen to you ever again. But sa you say, you KNOW so, so what can I say? We don't learn to know things the same way, that's all. But even, I am always willing to question what I know.

 

I do not know you tell me? You said that Christians could not do what they wanted to do, what do you mean by that? By wild I just mean having no direction or discipline in ones life. I am not saying you live this way. I am talking about people who are so out of control that they are harming themselfs.

 

I mean that I believe that some Christians (although not you obviously) might be in certain situation where they feel like doing something but don't in fear of going to hell. I think that most decisions motivated by fear are wrong decisions. My opinion, which can be modified, which will modify and I grow older. How can anyone always think the same way over time? Impossible.

 

I never said that animals have not evovled. I just do not believe that humans are animals. I do not believe that we come from moneys. when I was college I did research on human/animal testing and many things about the makeup of moneys and humans are not the same. The theory of Evolution still has not been proven to this day.

 

Different views, next.

 

How can you say that you are searching for something when you do not take the time to fully research it?

 

Talking with you and Cure Of Ars and you is one way to search things, to ask questions about it, as you both know a lot about it, and my doubts about it. This is my way, you're entitled your own.

 

You are still SOOO wrong the fact that I practice something thats teachings do not cause ME to physically harm another human being, is much different from a person who chooses to kill millions of people. You are mistaken. Comparing God to a human dictator is not the same.The foundations of Christianity are Good. A man is prone to sin, a man is prone to a conflict of thoughts and opinions.

 

What do you think the Nazis thought? That they were the good guys? What about the crusades (I know ars, a bad use of something fundamentally good), they also thought they were doing the good thing. THey thought as a collectivity, didn't question what the church told them to do and ended up doing atrocities along the way. This is why I'm organised religions, much like sects, are dangerous to the extent that the minute that you stop questionning what is going on, you can be lead to do terrible things to yourself and others. I'm not saying this si your case, but this happened in the past in Catholicism, and it happened with the event of the twin towers with a different religion. This is why one must always aware that he is still thinking for himself.

 

You still do not understand that people of religion do think for themselves.

 

Not all of them.

 

Your misconception is that if a person does not agree with what you think, then they are not thinking, but that shows that you have faulty areas in thought too when it comes to that issue.

 

I'm quite sorry if this is how this came out like, as it is not what I believe. I don't think I ever mentionned anything like that In my post. But since you KNOW that this is what I think. Fine, be it this way.

 

Yes I do. God knows the true character of each person. If you think God is so bad for wanting his children to be the best that they can by not sinning. Then why now are you mad at God, who loves us so much that he is willing to forgive any wrong doing that we commit if we are willing to change our lives for the better? Does that not show to you how accepting and loving God is, that he loves us so much that, he will take us into his kindom if we are willing to admit to him that we made mistakes, and we want to be forgiven to become better people. If you have an argument with a friend do you not want them to apologize to you. It is in human nature that our PRIDE may prevent us from apologizing or accepting the apology in some cases. Some people are stubborn and my be enemies for life.

 

What I said is that at some point in time, there were people who did bad things to other and bought their redemption with money. Same thing as those who did bad things mentionned the same prayer over and over and then magically get redemption. This is wrong for me. You know that this is right though, no point in arguing, I'm wrong, you're right.

 

The same thing holds true for heaven? Have you not heard of Lucifer/(Satan) the archangel of light? Lucifer was kicked out of heaven because he like you , did not want to serve God. He said he would rather reign in hell than to serve God in heaven. The angels who followed Lucifer's theory were sent to Hell "prision", a place God created for those who disobey. Satan and his demons rome the earth causing human to commit evil acts. Did you know that MOST of the people who are in prision are unsaved? The fact that these people had no direction in their life caused them to live a life of wickedness.

 

You may know more than I do about Chritianty, but let me tell you've displayed ignorance twice already about humans. I've worked in jails for 2 years, and that conception that those people in prison are unsaved makes me sick to the stomach. This tendency your religion have to categorize people and makes them feel guilty of everything and nothing makes me sooooo mad. Some people are in jail because they didn't pay their parking tickets. Are they unsaved? Some people lived violence since they were kids, and thus became violent themselves, as catholic as they were. Some of them never had a chance in life. You don't know what's happening in prisons, don't you start telling me that all of them are unsaved. A life of wickedness? Good and evil isn't? White or Black? You live your life of a righteous one, we'll just burn in hell, ok?

 

This is why I will NEVER join your church. I decided to understand human beings (as a social worker) as a whole and not as dual entities. This obsession with categorisation, you go to heaven, you go to hell, you are saved, you are unsaved, sounds like some child's ramblings. You worry about who goes to hell and heaven, I'll devote my life to help those who never had a chance in this life.

 

The second time you showed ignorance is when you mentionned this:

 

My large extended family is truly blessed with a line of people with no divorces, alcoholism, poverty, or abuse of any kind.

 

are things such as generational curses( alcoholism, abuse, incest, infidelity, divorce) and who is to say how your children's life my turn out since you did not raise them to love and fear God.

 

What do you know of poverty? What do you know of alcoholism? Incest? Abuse? Divorce? I've studied for years for those, and if you ahd, you would have realised religion HAS NOTHING to do with those. You refused to verify those things, just took them for granted because the bible told you so. This is what is commonly called as not thinking by yourself, do you understand now? How can you help those people who are poor if you think they are cursed or something? Cursed??!! Do you know how many people poor people there are on this earth??

 

This statement about generationnal curses got my blood boiling, sorry.

 

Would you want someone who steals, murders, rapes, lies, and abuses you live in your home? Would you want someone in your house who you KNOW for a fact WILL NEVER change their destructive behavior. I know that you a well roundend person with good judgement, would not allow such a person to live in your house. This is how God feels too about his perfect kingdom. When the final day of judgement comes, He will know that true character of all , and will send people where they need to go. We will have to give an account of our actions in life to God, and why we should be let in to heaven. If God can send angels to hell, I am sure he has no problems with sending humans too. God also knows that we are not that simple, that is why we have the choice to ask for forgiveness and become saved. If he judged us without the option of repentance then we would all go to hell!

 

You are missing the point. As I've said:

 

Why would God have something so simply human as Kingdom, so simply human as one way for someone who is good and the other who is evil? Even we human know that a person is not as simple as either one of two entity, good or evil, why would god be even more simplistic than we are? Why should the realm of what is beyond us, be undestandable by us, by our our own human concepts? How can something so... huge.. so.. beyond the beyond that would be the concept of afterlife be understandable by our intelligence? Why would god think on the same terms than we do?

 

Again you are wrong to think that those who read the Bible do not makes their own conclusions about what the text says. You are just making assumptions and generalizations.

 

But that's what you did about alcoholism!

 

That is good! I am glade that you do so so much for your community. The fact that one is not saved , makes them on the path to Satan. It does not mean that they are bad or evil, it just means that if you never become saved and serve God, the end of the road leads to Satan.

 

Well, I'll just be spent my life doing good things and end up in hell. Long live the Logic Behind that.

 

Demons are fallen angels who live in hell. Demons rome the earth to cause chaos. Some possessed people commit murders and vile unthinkable acts. There have been many accounts of exorcisms. I visited a church one time where the preacher gave an account of an exorcism he performed on a woman. He said that the woman was in her home one day, when she was sitting in her living room, she heard foot steps in her home. She looked everywhere and could not find anything in her house. The foot step came closer and closer to her, and she said that she felt something enter her body. The pastor went on to tell that this woman called his church about a week later to speak to him. When he went to visit her, she told him that she felt as if she was possessed by a demon.

 

And because he said it you know it's true.

 

Your cannot prove some ones feelings

 

You can prove feelings through actions motivated by those feelings.

 

You have made me change my mind about Christianty in anyway.

 

I'm glad I did. (Joke)

 

The things that you use to support your theories have an answer to negate its truth

 

So I've been contradcting myself all the way. Too bad I was too retarded to notice it.

 

The point of proving something means that you have assessed all of your data, in all areas of the objective that you are trying to prove

 

That's one way of doing things. Another one is to make assumptions and to stand corrected, much like Cure of Ars did for me.

 

To make the poor assumption that Chirstian do not not think for themselves is wrong.

 

Ah.. a poor assumption is it? Well, I think my assumptions to be different than yours, and quite honestly, quite interesting. I wouldn't say your assumptions are poor though, that would show disrespect. I didn't learn that in church though.

 

It was interesting talking to you Genesis, and I would've continued to do so if you didn't know everything and hold the truth with a big T. I can't compete with someone who knows for certain that everything he knows is the truth and cannot remotely be wrong.

 

Good day,

 

Omega Man

[Genesis]

Omega,

 

No, losing my mother did not make me want to join the church. If you read my post correctly then you would see that I left the church for several years after that event. What made me want to join the church is because I did not want to be without my family in the kingdom of heaven.

Christians all have their own opinions about the text of the Bible, and the reason for joining.

 

Tell me, to say that ALL christians of the world have their own self-made opinion, isn't that a generalisation. You won't admit that though, so why bother.

 

Yes, people are not all the same. People come up with their own conclusions about things if you like this or not. No person is ever the same, and that is a fact. My beliefs on christianity my not be the same as others, so again I do not agree. Just because a few may feel the same thing does not mean the whole group feels that way.

 

 

Are yours? How can you say an opinion is accurate if not based on facts? My point is, what is said in the bible shouldn't taken to the word, if it's said satan will take the form of a nine headed dragon, it doesn't mean that he will literaly be this way. And so on from the rest of it. But you ahve decided that the bible tells us exactly what's gonna happen, and you and I both know that you will not change your mind. What's the point?

 

Omega, you can buy a Paralle Bible where you can see at least 4 different interpretations of the text, this give you the varity that you are looking for, and you can also create your own opinion as well. Go to a Bible book store where you can find hundreds of different types of Bibles. No, you will never change my mind.

 

 

Very well, you tell me one part of the bible you disagree with or have made your very own personnal interpretation. I think some people do not question what is said in that book, for the good reason that I've met some. This entitles to make that statement withtout being presumptous as you like to say it.

 

The only thing I question is homosexuals going to hell. I wonder if being gay is an genetic disorder or if it is by choice. I do not feel that God would create a person who is disadvantaged from salvation right from birth,due to a genentic disorder. This is where I have concern. If this is an genetic disorder then , they should not go to hell. I also wonder than it would be so hard to change that life style if that is all you ever known. Do they not need to have a companion in life too? I think every one should find love. I know of one man who is Gay who said that, he will choose to live a celibate life due to his homosexuality. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. I do not question that, because if it is a sin and harmful for a man and woman to have sex before marriage, then I know it is also harmful for people of the same sex to do the same. People these days do not realize the harmful effects sex has on a persons well being. If a person can slide by without getting an STD thats fine, but I fell that it still is harmful to a persons emotional health.

 

 

 

Ok, so you are saying that I cannot understand the concept of heaven and hell because, contrarily to you, I've never lived through a possesssion.

 

As, I said my belief in the supernatural is based on my experiences. I was never possessed , I was approached by a force that wanted to possess men. My strong faith, made this spirit leave me alone.

 

It took experiences for Saul to believe in God. The holly spirit knocked him off of his horse and blinded Saul for days and he asked him "why are you forsaking me". It took that proof for him an unbeliever in God and a murderer of christians, to believe in God. Like I said before when judgment day comes you will believe, all the proof you have been searching for will be right before your eyes.

 

 

May be true, do I hear a doubt among all those certitudes? Probably just a visual mistake. But if you manage to at least show doubt among some things in your religion, I'm glad for that.

 

Yes, any person can write a book and tells lies, but all people who write stories do not lie. So if you are inclinded to not trust or believe any one that is you. I am not saying I trust everyone, but I am also know that there is also truth as well as lies.

 

[

quote]I don't think it happened to many people, because there are so many coincidences. Just like not everyone wins the lotto. This is probably why such an experience didn't happen to you ever again. But sa you say, you KNOW so, so what can I say? We don't learn to know things the same way, that's all. But even, I am always willing to question what I know.

 

Maybe, yes in some cases. It is nice to know that most of the lotto winners in the past 5-10 years have been devoted Christians. It is so nice how many winners want to share their wealth,with the church because they feel that God blessed them with the money. However some churches do not accept the money, because some feel it is wrong to gamble, but I would!! Money is money, and I would turn it into something positive for my community

 

I think that most decisions motivated by fear are wrong decisions. My opinion, which can be modified, which will modify and I grow older. How can anyone always think the same way over time? Impossible.

 

I would not call it fear, it is just living with values. You would not do something that you know will harm you, not because of fear but because you want to preserve your , well being, health, and life.

 

 

What do you think the Nazis thought? That they were the good guys? What about the crusades (I know ars, a bad use of something fundamentally good), they also thought they were doing the good thing. THey thought as a collectivity, didn't question what the church told them to do and ended up doing atrocities along the way. This is why I'm organised religions, much like sects, are dangerous to the extent that the minute that you stop questionning what is going on, you can be lead to do terrible things to yourself and others. I'm not saying this si your case, but this happened in the past in Catholicism, and it happened with the event of the twin towers with a different religion. This is why one must always aware that he is still thinking for himself.

 

Again you ARE SO wrong. Your are generalizing. I have read the text of other religions concerning killing others for the sake of religion. Muslims wanted to defend their right to their home land , but the Koran also says it is not just to kill or murder another human. Religion aside. Murder is wrong regardless of what you choose to worship or not worship. The bible does not justify war. God never justified war. There is not one line in the Bible that says it is ok for a HUMAN to kill another HUMAN. Many have misinterpreted the rights that God has to destroy, but he has those rights not us. YOU MISTAKE THE BELIEFS OF A FEW EXTREMIST AND BLANKET OR STEREOTYPE THE ENTIRE RELIGION.Thats is what my main objection to what your saying is. You have a right to tell me and others to question what we read, but you are NOT following your own ethics. You are being prejudice and stereotypical when it comes to organized religion. You take the poor actions of a few, and make them the thoughts and actions of others who have nothing to do with the actions of those who made poor jugdements.

 

What I said is that at some point in time, there were people who did bad things to other and bought their redemption with money. Same thing as those who did bad things mentionned the same prayer over and over and then magically get redemption. This is wrong for me. You know that this is right though, no point in arguing, I'm wrong, you're right.

 

Again the actions of a few, your prejudging and stereotyping, that all would do this. Yes there are crooked people in every aspect of life from the government to the school system, that does not mean that others are not using redemption in the proper way.

 

You may know more than I do about Chritianty, but let me tell you've displayed ignorance twice already about humans. I've worked in jails for 2 years, and that conception that those people in prison are unsaved makes me sick to the stomach. This tendency your religion have to categorize people and makes them feel guilty of everything and nothing makes me sooooo mad. Some people are in jail because they didn't pay their parking tickets. Are they unsaved? Some people lived violence since they were kids, and thus became violent themselves, as catholic as they were. Some of them never had a chance in life. You don't know what's happening in prisons, don't you start telling me that all of them are unsaved. A life of wickedness? Good and evil isn't? White or Black? You live your life of a righteous one, we'll just burn in hell, ok?

 

No , you have some misconceptions and areas in ignorance yourself, because the fact that you do not understand religion enough to make an accurate assessment of its purpose, makes you not able to see how religion is not segregating people, it is disowning SIN not the person themself. I have also been to the prision with my church. We are are missionary church and we preach to those men and women in prision. I can say for a fact that many of the people I have meet in prision who have done vicious crimes have not given their life to christ, or have backslide away from Christ. The fact that you do not understand the concept fo being unsaved or saved makes your point faulty. Being saved means to be baptisted and to give your life to Christ. To change your ways and become a better person.

 

Thats what makes me and my church the more loving to reach out to those, who are in jail to help them become better people. We are not judging them saved or unsaved, we want them to become saved or to become born again which mean to reaffirm your life to chirst if you have already been saved. A Christian who turns away from the church is consider a backslider, and it is our job to bring them back into the church. If we just said O their unsaved, or in jail, so they are not worth our time, then we would not be going to prisions all accross the state to try to help those who are in jail come to know christ for the first time or again. If a saved person is in jail for non-petty crime then they are not following Gods law, because if they were following Gods law, they would not be in jail in the first place!!!!

 

I know that there are people in jail with petty crimes, but that was not the point I was trying to make to you. Just because a person comes from a poor home life does not mean they have to continue with the vicious cycle of sin. There are plenty of preachers and other people who have been abused, poor, come from families with alcohol problems, but they choose not to repeat that generational curse of poor choices that would lead them to prision. So are you saying that all poor people, have an excuse to not follow the law just because they are poor? I know plenty of people with not alot of money who choose to obey God and the law. You think that I am saying people in prision cannot be changed, I never said that. My church has saved many people who are in prision, and they have benifited MORE from the teachings of God, than anything that they learned in counseling while in prision.

 

Many of the newly saved prisioners, who get out of prision are living a more productive life with God. They realize their error of their ways, and want to follow God, because they have peace and stability that they once did not have before. Just because one comes from a bad background does not mean that, that should bring them down in life. According to the Bible people can break free from generational curses in their lifes. The fact that some people had no guidance or discipline from God rearing parents, may also be a factor to their life of crime. Why would you put down religion if, it makes a man who once was in jail become a loving and more productive citizen once he gets out. Many people but not all, who are in jail are not being helped long term, and leaving jail to come right back for another crime.

 

America is much different than Canada. From what I read Canada has one of the lowest crime rates in the world , so yes there maybe more petty crimminals where you live. America is the home where there is more money being spent on prisions than in school system, so that says alot about our crime rate! The reason why so many churches go to prisions to preach to prisioners, is so that they may become God fearing citizens who will teach their families values, so that the next generation of their family is not sitting in a prision cell. By they way, I will not burn in hell, because I have choosen to give my life God. I have been baptisted and I try to follow his plan to the best of my ability.

 

 

 

This is why I will NEVER join your church. I decided to understand human beings (as a social worker) as a whole and not as dual entities. This obsession with categorisation, you go to heaven, you go to hell, you are saved, you are unsaved, sounds like some child's ramblings. You worry about who goes to hell and heaven, I'll devote my life to help those who never had a chance in this life.

 

I have plenty of friends who are social workers who are christians and preach the word of God to their clients. The church also devotes itself to those who never had a chance in life also. If you never join the church that is your choice, but I do think you have a misconception and prejudice of religion, which hinders you from truly understanding it.

 

 

What do you know of poverty? What do you know of alcoholism? Incest? Abuse? Divorce? I've studied for years for those, and if you ahd, you would have realised religion HAS NOTHING to do with those. You refused to verify those things, just took them for granted because the bible told you so. This is what is commonly called as not thinking by yourself, do you understand now? How can you help those people who are poor if you think they are cursed or something? Cursed??!! Do you know how many people poor people there are on this earth??

This statement about generationnal curses got my blood boiling, sorry.

 

You can be mad if you want to, I am sorry you feel this way. POVERTY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, IS ABOUT BEING AN ACTIVE FOLLOWER OF GOD!!!! Those who follow God will be blessed with his riches if it is by money, grace, happiness, or peace, that is what God what for his children. The Bible say to give to the poor, feed the poor, I think you are mistaken. I just stated that I feel that my family, has been so blessed is because we obey God, and Love him with all our hearts. The Bible does state that families can have generational curses, which cases many of these problems to occur generation after generation , if one does not obey Gods law, or chooses to forsake him altogether which is an extreme abomination. The Bible states the entire Deuteronomy 28 Deuteronomy 28 : 45 & 46 All these curses shall pursue and overtake you until you are destroyed- all because you refuse to listen to the Lord your God. These horrors shall befall you and your descendants as a warning

 

That fact that you do not know very much about Christianity, you can not say that religion has nothing to do with these factors happening in some house holds. I have also studied this for many years and statistics states that a family that goes to church regulary and are active members who apply the teachings of God to their life, have lower rates of divorce, abuse, incest, infidelity, and alcoholism. I am not saying that these things can not happen to a christian family, I am just saying the incedent rates are lower. The fact that you may never have done research on this topic from a religious perspective, may be the reason that you do not know these data findings. I have met people from all walks of life. The people who I havefound to have extreme domestic problems in the family were due to a lack of religious beliefs not economic status. Their are people who many not be wealthy but they still go to church, and do not have domestic problems.

 

I have know people who have been sexually abused as children and had alcoholic parents who never made the family attend church, and as adults they became saved and their life has changed for the better, and for thier children lives. They broke the curse by obeying God and giving their life to him, just because their parents were messed up does not mean they had to be. The people who I have know who are active members of the church, rich or poor seem to have had more peaceful and happy home lives, than those who are not in the church. This is just my observation of the people I have meet in my life

 

 

 

Quote:

Why would God have something so simply human as Kingdom, so simply human as one way for someone who is good and the other who is evil? Even we human know that a person is not as simple as either one of two entity, good or evil, why would god be even more simplistic than we are? Why should the realm of what is beyond us, be undestandable by us, by our our own human concepts? How can something so... huge.. so.. beyond the beyond that would be the concept of afterlife be understandable by our intelligence? Why would god think on the same terms than we do?

 

IIf you owned a company would you not want to market your product and sell it to all people? They only way you can do that is to make is appeal and understandable to all. God wants to be able to reach all people , of all intelligence levels. If you think that only the intelligent deserve some type of reward then you are wrong. God knows that we are not that simple that is why there is repentance of sins. No is is truly good or truly evil. The final judgement is based on if you choose to worship him or not. Like I said before you can not teach someone something if they are not on the same intelligence level as you. For example: if you tried to teach trigonomerty to little children, see how many will understand you. What children of that age understand is 1+1=2. God makes His word easy for all people to understand not just those with a high intelligence levels. God wants ALL people to be able to follow his word.Quote:

 

 

 

Omega the point that I think you fail to realize is that even if I did question something in the, Bible it is not going to make me stop believing in God. People should question things and by you saying that you are right! The fact that you think that people of religion do not think for themselves is just not accurate. Yes, there are people who do not think for themselve, but that is not the case for everyone. Many people who LOVE GOD ARE NOT GOING TO STOP BELIEVING IN HIM, just because someone tries to question their faith and religion.

 

 

 

Take Care and God Bless.

[Heartless01]

WOW

 

I love this particular debate, but being Jewish, a strict NON religionist as well as having a controversial view of G-d, heaven, afterlife (or lack of one)...I usually end up snarking off everybody...LOL

 

Weakness (from any source or cause) breeds the need for religion IMO....

 

Gonna make for a good thread to read tho!

 

Yay Omega!

[Heartless01]

I have to say that I am a bit sad that mistranslations of hebrew writings are still perpetuated....

[aimeebtrfly]

Good topic..

 

First.. no.. I don't believe a man or woman who is spiritual can survive. God decides, not man. A man/woman must recognize the God from the Bible, a gift from God sitting right in front of our face.

 

No..... God gives us the right to decide what decisions that we are going to make. He may not like them or agree with them but he gives us that right. Why do you think things go wrong or tragedies happen. Do you think God decides for a man to murder someone else? That murderer made the decision to kill someone else. He can repent and be forgiven, but God DID NOT make that decision for him.

[aimeebtrfly]

Genesis, it depends on what type of murder you are talking about. Numbers 35 talks of the "Cities of Refuge" for someone who accidentally kills another. But in verses 26-27 "But if the accused ever goes outside the limits of the city of refuge to which he has fled and the avenger of blood finds him outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder."

[aimeebtrfly]

Religion aside. Murder is wrong regardless of what you choose to worship or not worship. The bible does not justify war. God never justified war. There is not one line in the Bible that says it is ok for a HUMAN to kill another HUMAN. Many have misinterpreted the rights that God has to destroy, but he has those rights not us.

 

Ok so God never justified war huh?

 

In the book of Joshua God told Joshua to go and take the territory that he had promised to Moses. "No one will be able to stand up against you all the days of your life"

 

v. 10 "So Joshua ordered the officers of the people: v11 "Go through the camp and tell the people, 'Get your supplies ready. Three days from now you will cross the Jordan here to go in and take possession of the land the Lord your God is giving you for your own.'"

 

This you should know as the Battle of Jericho. This is a war that the Lord said to have.

[aimeebtrfly]

My husband is an atheist and I am a Christian and bringing our children up as Christians. I think everyone has their own right to believe in whatever they want to believe in. I am non-denomination. I attend The Salvation Army (yes it is a church) and we branch off of the Methodist religion. I am a 5th generation Salvationist and brought up in my religion and I love it. In some churches (not all) I find it real judgemental of people. This is where The Salvation Army is different. I am sure that you all know that we help the poor, we give them clothes food a place to stay. We also have Rehabilitation Centers for people with drug and alcohol problems. These are the same people that come to the churches on Sundays, Weds and whenever we have a program or church service going on. I am not saying that there are not some in the church who are judgemental but you wont see them being ugly or rude. At my particular Corps (this is what we call our churches) there is not a person who comes through the doors who doesnt feel welcome.

[darkblue]

I should point out that this particular thread is dated 2003 and your messages will probably not reach the participants.

[aimeebtrfly]

I see that now. A friend of mine told me about the thread.

[Heartless01]

I should point out that this particular thread is dated 2003 and your messages will probably not reach the participants.

 

Ummm

 

Whoops...mental note: Look at the date of posting prior to responding...

hahahaha

[darkblue]

We could always keep it going, if you wished.

You just have to find participants

[Heartless01]

We could always keep it going, if you wished.

You just have to find participants

 

Nahh, seems the topic was worn thin.

 

Religion and spirituality are completely separate things to me, though they can be combined.

 

Basically, to each thier own so long as I dont have to participate....

 

hahahaha

[jimwharton]

what I believe is when Jesus cried out it is finished that he meant he died for all and it is done no matter how we believe

[agent1607307371]

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