whodathunk Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 So after reading through a lot on this site, it seems like it has not only been my adventure through the looking glass. In a nutshell: Married 14 years, 3 kids, all the ups and downs of a longish marriage. It was not a fairy-tale, and neither of us were the patron saints of the perfect spouse, but the problems (I thought) were garden variety, and did not hold a candle to the positives - all the blessings and the laughter and the shared experiences and the compact we made. I really love her. Enter the (as it turns out, not so accidental) introduction of a boyfriend from 17 years ago. Suddenly there were bigger problems than I would have ever guessed. "I just don't think I'm fulfilled" she says, "It's not you, its me" she says, "I think both of us deserve more" she says. The overnight trips to her perpetually sick sister were (as it turns out) not actually overnight trips to her sister. She was always really tired when she got back from her "sister's"... the kids and I could make a nice dinner, try to salvage the weekend... but she could never join us - she always had a headache. "Long weekend", she says. To shorten a long story, that was all about 12 weeks ago. She found a place, I'm in the house, we split the kids time reasonably and with an eye to their needs. We are the picture of the mature seperation. No lawyers, agreeable interim financial understandings, I think both of us working overtime to keep the kids front and center and make it all as amicable as possible. I've tried to practice NC (or NC with kids) where all of our conversations are business. And I thought I was doing pretty okay. We always had pasta for dinner on Sundays, even in the summer. Last night she had the kids but I still made the pasta here. I set a place for myself and served a plate, and salad and poured a glass of wine. And I looked around my empty table in my silent house and started crying like I probably have not done in 35 years. I guess I just want to confront her - everthing I read says I shouldn't. But I just want to ask how could you do it? How could you throw it all out? And instead of all of our breezy, "mature" meetings, just beg her to explain how she could hurt our children, and our families and yes, me, so much? I don't even want to fix it anymore, I don't think it could be fixed, I just want to understand how an old boyfriend from when she was a teenager undid all of us, and all those years, even with our warts and all. Is that reasonable, or do you just accept that you'll never get it?
brokedownpalace Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 problem with that is.. you will never know the true answer.. whatever answer she gives will either be too soft to not hurt your feelings , or too harsh to push you off.. either way do you think that will help you ? It doesnt change anything. I know what your going through is rough and it is something you will live with for the rest of your days, but having the answer on her end wont help things if anything maybe make it worse. All the resources you have read are correct, there is no need for an answer because the situation stays the same. How could someone through the life you guys built together - away for some one in her past? I dont even think there would even be a logical answer for that. You saw your marriage as one way, and apparently she saw it as another. I dont want to offend you, but for her to drift period, it shows she was unhappy in some capacity. So the ex isnt the problem, it most likely could have been someone else. There is no answer my man and that is always unfortunate because as people, we are always trying to find the answers to things we dont understand. But talking to her about it would just be an excercise in futility. Continue to self improve and do things to keep you busy to get you over the hump of this rough time. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Maverick44 Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 brokendownpalace is right. As much as it sucks to hear and accept, she stopped wanting the same things you want. If she wanted the same things out of life that you wanted, then she'd be with you. Now, if you try to force her to want those things, she will resent you. I've had a gf lie to me and tell me she wanted things I wanted. Then, she proceeded to attempt to manipulate me (with or without her knowing). Because I could bend but not break, there have been tons of fights. I didn't blame her (at least after I thought it through). I just said I thought we wanted the same things and if she didn't want the same things I wanted, then it wouldn't work. She has since said she does again and is looking to uphold her end. What I'm saying is this, you may want certain things but if the other person doesn't want them or you, then it won't work. You're not a bad person and they're not a bad person. It's just your heart still wants something that is no longer there. Now it is time to accept that, grieve, and move on. Life still has alot to offer us and you may be surprised. Try and enjoy whatever phase of it you're in. Best of luck, Maverick
PeanutButter Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 young relationships never last, those "old first loves" may come back and be even stronger loves. she cheated, shes a * * * * * and a * * * * basically. if she was unhappy she should of ended the marriage and not wasted any more of your time. its stupid and unfair. very mature, yeh. no its very IMMATURE to cheat on someone. thats how im seeing this. all you can do is start over in a sense. she was just not happy with you and she cheated-- felt hey you can find your one true love, "as she did hers". he could of been that fun excitment for her. that new thing, that old spark that she never left feelings for and when he came back into her life he was just DIFFERENT. something new and exciting-- more fun to be with. 1 out of 901381028 marriages DOES NOT LAST. why do you think they invented divorces?
John Bendix Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 The point that we all miss in these type of walking out scenarios is that those doing the walking are extremely emotional distressed. This is to the point of clinical depression. This is not as bold a statement as it might sound. Though clinical depression is difficult to diagnose, it does not mean that it is is not there. We know they have changed into an alien and their behavior and demeanor are radically different. Look at the symptoms. Irritiable, non-communicative, irrational, fits of rage and withdrawal, uncaring, self-absorbed, age regression, alcohol anddrug use, low libido, etc. To top it off, they perceive their only chance of ending their emotional turmoil is to get away from the person who has been the closest to them. They place the blame for all of their unhappiness on that one person. Is this rational? Wanting the same things is a way of making a connection with some one but wanting different things does not automatically mean separate. Different is not separate. People can do and enjoy different things and still have an intimate connection. The problem arises when one or both bring in the erroneous thought of how things SHOULD be and are not willing to accept how they are. "We should make have the same interests or want the same things". If you are connected, how can these worldly activities really make a difference unless you convince yourself, through emotional reaction, that they should. "He/she doesn't love me anymore because he/she never wants to go to the movies like we used to." John
whodathunk Posted October 1, 2007 Author Posted October 1, 2007 Brokedown, Maverick, PB - thanks for the replies. And you're all right. In the category of 'Hindsight is 20/20': A few months before this began (but probably after everything had already started), we found out that with a couple we were friends with, the guy was having an affair. I was better friends with him, and she with her, but there was a bizarre shift. I asked "Man, how could he do that?" My wife said "Maybe it just is who he is, maybe he couldn't help himself. You can't help who you are." I said "Well by that logic I could rob a bank tomorrow. It's who I am officer... " She didn't say anything. As stupid as it sounds, I only remembered that conversation after everything else was revealed. I really am just blind.
whodathunk Posted October 1, 2007 Author Posted October 1, 2007 and thanks John as well. A lot of that is familiar.
PeanutButter Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 what you said in that last long paragraph, almost like you were talking in third person or bout something completely different
Beec Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 I don't think you are blind. I think your wife is probably a foolish woman, who whatever was wrong was not brave enough or wise enough to confront the issues in a healthy way before she dediced to drop her pants and crap all over something beautiful, like the heart of a man who loved her. Seems to me she really did not and does not know what love is, and her selfishness has harmed at least four other lives. Nevertheless, the issue for you is what do you do and where do you go from here. If I was in your shoes, I don't think I ever could take her back. You could try to get her back. But, if you did you get her abck, afterward you would probbaly not wever want or trust her. Trust once broken is not easily fixed. I could see her leaving, but teh cheating and lying would break all deals. So, for now, you will do what you did Sunday. You'll grieve. You certainly do not need anyone's permission to cry and let it out, do it, if you need to. You've lost something you thought was precious. After sometime, the grieving will become less, and you should think about picking up your life and moving forward. Which way, that's your call, but forward nonetheless. Take your time. Welcome to enotalone, please stick around.
Maverick44 Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 JB - I'm talking about the same things out of life. When an individual knows what their goals/achievements they want - and their partner initially wanted those same goals/achievements (i.e say kids), but then changes that, and no longer wants that, then isn't that a reason to separate? I'm not talking menial items like movies or meals. I'm talking about lifelong visions/goals and the achievement of them. In essense here, though, the OP wanted a life with this woman. She no longer wants that with him. She is no longer fulfilled because she wants something different at this point in time than what she had wanted with this man. Is that not a reason to separate?
whodathunk Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 Maverick -Intellectually I hear you, and you've probably nailed where she's coming from. But my God, all of it is thrown out. Carrying her father's coffin, our daughter's diagnosis with autism, dancing again and again at every occasion to our wedding dance "Unforgettable", the honeymoon in Paris, the endless kiss "as far as we can see" at the top of Empire State Building, the nightmare of my brother's death from a heart attack, the snowy night with not enough blankets on the camping trip when the rangers "surprised" us and we laughed and laughed.... I could go on forever. good and bad. I'm sure you all could. How do you throw out all those years?
John Bendix Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Sorry, My quick reply was to whodathunk. Maverick44, I understand what you are saying but I see it a bit different. Those needs, desires, wants, goals, achievements, and the like, are all insatiable needs. Even the emotional feeling created by obtaining them, i.e, sense of fulfillment, contentment, happiness, and so on, are so fleeting. Afterwards, what have you got? A further desire to gain more to again enhance the sense of self or ego. The connection that someone has with their partner in an intimate relationship cannot be torn down by these concepts of gratification unless we convince our thoughts, and in reaction, our emotions to do so. I see it as not sharing a life but sharing a connection. Will we may make our life situation better if I want the same things as my partner? Could be. But we have just created more identification with the future, which is only an perceived image, for bestowing upon us what we perceive that will make us happy. That hapiness is as fleeting as any other emotion. The connection between people and all things is eternal. There is nothing wrong with goals and visions. As long as we do not demand that the outcome should make you "happy". The future is a guess and can only be made in the here and now. Expectation of people, situations, conditions and events, will only lead to disappointment and suffering when we do not accept the outcome for what it is. This is the major cause of all of the pain found on these posts. John
tgt Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Sorry to hear about your situation whoda, mine was very similar as well, 13 yrs - 3 kids and she had an affair that ended it. It's astonishing to everyone that it happened - including me too - considering all the memories and what we had but people change and sometimes we miss it. The best thing we can do is get on with our lives and find ourselves as individuals again - think back to what you liked and were before the marriage and start there. There are lots of things I do now that I didnt do while I was married and after a few months of emotional craziness its getting much better and I am happy again. If you share custody with your ex, you have all that time where you dont need a babysitter to meet new people and do some really great things with your freedom.
Maverick44 Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Not to hijack a thread - but JB- If two people are sharing the same long-term vision of their life together and one changes that from the other, then how does that work? I used kids as an example but there are many others. Maverick -Intellectually I hear you, and you've probably nailed where she's coming from. But my God, all of it is thrown out. Carrying her father's coffin, our daughter's diagnosis with autism, dancing again and again at every occasion to our wedding dance "Unforgettable", the honeymoon in Paris, the endless kiss "as far as we can see" at the top of Empire State Building, the nightmare of my brother's death from a heart attack, the snowy night with not enough blankets on the camping trip when the rangers "surprised" us and we laughed and laughed.... I could go on forever. good and bad. I'm sure you all could. How do you throw out all those years? whodathunk - Just to reiterate - these are only my opinions/thoughts. You can see that JB has his and I don't know that I agree with his completely. On some level I do but I'm still trying to grasp his view. With that said - you're right, we all do have memories of things that have happened. Also, I'm not saying that on some level the people who have left us, including your wife, have not loved us even as they left us. I'm saying that that in the end, they did not share the same vision of the future as us. Be it they were selfish or they wanted something else in their life. When I look back at my relationships and what I've learned, I do actually put it more in perspective when I say "We didn't want the same things out of life. If we wanted the same things, then it wouldn't have ended". We can question why all we want. Why for me became that we didn't share the same thoughts of the future and even if we did at one point, people change and they no longer did. This is where the pain is, at least for me, because we don't understand why and quite honestly, we won't. We can't understand people sometimes when they talk with us and try to be clear. We're going to understand them when they don't care to be clear? I think tgt said it somewhat again when he indicated that people change. As a result of her changing, she no longer wants the same things out of life that you did. Maverick
John Bendix Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Maverick, I do agree with you that change is a problem. The radical change that the walkaway accomplishes is beyond any explanation. It is hard to accept and thereforeeee the suffering that we put ourselves through. "We can't understand people sometimes when they talk with us and try to be clear. We're going to understand them when they don't care to be clear?" The way you put this simple truth actually made me laugh. They certainly do not care if they are clear or if they are understood. Another radical change for someone to deal with. I am seeing a bit more of what you are saying. But to me it is the radical change in want and desire, almost delusional. Actually, they usually desire what cannot be obtained. John
John Bendix Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Whodathunk, I have to console with you about the memories. They are also thrown out the window for me. The way my X left, and her behavior since, have left me to care little about the my past life with her. I used to remember every little detail of our life, and our children's lives, together. Now, it has all vanished into the deep recesses of my memory banks and I do not care to call them up. It's not the emotions that they may bring up with them, that is not even a concern. I can handle the emotional repsonses but just have no desire to look at the past the way I used to. It brings me little joy. It might as well be thrown away. John
whodathunk Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 It just hurts. It meant so much to me. I know now that it meant different things to her. And I don't disagree with what anyone posted, and just thanks for replying. Its probably not forward thinking or productive, but I just so miss it all so much. And it just hurts. I wish I could go back in time somehow and fix it. But I can't. I'll get it over it, we all will, it's just not easy. I just wanted to vent.
John Bendix Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Both my marriage counselor (three visits, til X said she did not want it to work) and the county social worker called me a Fixer. I also wanted to fix it but realized, after much suffering, that I could not. The hurt you feel comes from the pain that you inside of you. Acceptance of the pain, as well as any emotion, will fee you from the feedback cycle. Unpleasant thoughts created undesirable emotions which are fed back to the mind to create more unpleasant thoughts. By seeing your thoughts and emotions for what they are, WITHOUT judgement (i.e. I am weak person for thinking or feeling this) and wanting them to be other than they are (I do not think or feel this way or why can't I feel some other way?), you are freeing yourself of the suffering caused by the cycle. By accepting them for what they are, merely temporary thoughts and emotions, and not who you are or as a part of you, they lessen in importance. By identifying these as who you are, you get to accumulate them as pain. I suggest you check out link removed for a full description of the marriage dynamic you are in. John
John Bendix Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 Tell The Truth, She may see what she done. No one knows for sure. The therapists that I have talked to tell me that in these type of scenarios, those who walkaway may never see the light. They will continue on their dysfunctional way for the rest of their lives rationalizing their actions to themselves and others. More's the pity. In this case, their suffering continues from one relationship to another. In the county in which I live, almost 70% of all 2nd marriages end in divorce. Does not seem that two many learn from their past relationship problems and just go on blaming their partners and former partners for their problems. John
Tigger67 Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 Whodathunk I am so sorry to hear of your situation. Your story is pretty much exactly my story from a year ago (minus the bf situation). Married 17 years, 3 kids (all adopted), no major problems (that I could see, but I guess were there), 1 'heated' discussion where I vented about everything but her (ironically it was brought on because I didn't feel we were getting enough time together), and two months after that we were divorced. We did the same as you--sat down and planned out money, possessions, custody, etc., she had a lawyer draw up the papers and that was it. I understand completely what you are going through. You want answers to 'why?' You hurt. You feel blindsided. You were probably told that 'you should have known that things were bad'. We probably should have, but we didn't. Okay? You will/do want to contact her and find out what happened and try to make it better. Trust me--it won't work. It will just enrage her and drive her away more and she will put up another layer on the already unscalable wall that she has secluded herself behind. Nothing you can do right now is going to make a difference. Now for a bit of possibly good news. It will get better. It has been almost a year for me now, and it is at times still tough, but I've come a long way. I moved, I got a new job, I lost 40 pounds, and I went to the dentist (had a tooth missing and looked a bit like a hockey player), and most importantly, I just feel good about myself. It can be done, but it does take time and confidence. I have tried NC, but we do need to converse about the kids. But, unless it is an emergency, I do not initiate contact. There are four areas that need your attention right now and they are in order of priority 1. The kids 2. You 3. Everything else 4. Her I hope you find a bit of solice in all of this. As the site says, you are not alone. Cry, scream, whine, beg, plead, swear, and yell--but not in front of the kids or her. Take care.
Beec Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 It just hurts. It meant so much to me. I know now that it meant different things to her. And I don't disagree with what anyone posted, and just thanks for replying. Its probably not forward thinking or productive, but I just so miss it all so much. And it just hurts. I wish I could go back in time somehow and fix it. But I can't. I'll get it over it, we all will, it's just not easy. I just wanted to vent. Fix it? Fix what? really, I know something is broken, but you are not the one with the tools to fix it. Every marriage is going to go through tough patches when you feel like strangling each toher, or just getting away. We all do this. But when you feel like this and you still do what is right for your souse, that's really love. She did not love in this manner, that was among the tools she had and she decided to not use that tool. Get over it? Probably not really, but you will need to get on with it. You'll need to find a way to have a life you can enjoy, and sadly it's not the life you envisioned a short while ago. You may not be able to envision the life you will want to lead, and it may change a number of times before you strike out to try and live it. It will all take some time, and there are no real easy answers for you now. It hurts, and for some time, I bet that it is going to hurt. There's no simple way to avoid it. Let it hurt some, but also try to keep yourself and your kids busy, and try to have some fun especially both some without them and with them. On coming nights when you will be alone, try to get out and do something, anything you enjoy, something to fill the time. It will still hurt, but it time you'll learn to live with what pain you have from it, and that pain will lessen, and you will carry on. Hopefully, someday you'll find a life you envision wanting to live.
JadedStar Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 Last night she had the kids but I still made the pasta here. I set a place for myself and served a plate, and salad and poured a glass of wine. And I looked around my empty table in my silent house and started crying like I probably have not done in 35 years. I read this part and couldn't help but get misty eyed. Truth is, confrontation won't get what you need and want. I know it seems that way, but people just fall out of love sometimes. My ex husband of 17 years could have written this same thread, minus the cheating. I just had enough and was not fulfilled either. We grew in different directions and it became unbearable. For us, however, our kids were grown. I don't think I could have done this to them if they were still little, but honestly staying for the kids in an unhappy marriage isn't helping them either. It was one of the hardest things I ever did, but it had been a very loveless marriage for me for a long time. It wasn't because I hated him or wanted to see him hurt. Confronting me would not have gotten him answers he wanted or could have resolved. I feel so bad for you, but this is one of those things that happens in life that is totally out of our control sometimes. She chose to move on and you have to let her. You will find happiness again my friend.
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