Is he setting us up to fail???

[law1204]

Hi, I am new here and this is such a great board.

 

Basically I have been married for 7 years, no kids. I told my husband when we got married that I did not want kids, MAYBE, MAYBE it would be something I would do in the future, no promises. I still don't want them. At the time, he didn't either. Now-he would be devastated if he didn't have them. He also told me once or twice that he married me, "hoping I would change." He is not the man I married anymore.

 

We were both Christians when we got married, but the last few years he has gotten very deeply involved in the fundamentalist church that we both went to. We were happy going there, almost everything was A -OK. Almost:

 

Husband has been addicted to computer games since day one. Much of our marriage is me waiting around for him to get finished gaming. Which he never does. Since our fallout, (I'll get to that), it has escalated to a fever pitch. We never go out or enjoy activities together, and the few times in the last 7 years that we have, he ruins it with a sour attitude as if he would rather be somewhere else (gaming). He has promised me several trips but never follows through. We had an RV but never took any trips in it even though I asked him. It has since been sold.

 

Anyway, his increasing involvement in the fundamentalist church has affected his outlook on our marriage - badly. He somehow has gotten it into his head that my desire not to have children is me "rebelling against his authority." He is upset that I don't seem to have any interest in "home and family." (Ok, so I am not good at chores.) I have a long, long list of deeply hurtful things he has said to me criticising me, how I don't measure up to the Bible, and our sex life consists of him using me and that is all - no affection. I felt like * * * *.

 

I found myself spiraling into a scary depression. I told him last year I was thinking about leaving. He did not react.

 

We continued to have very hurtful discussions about our family (or lack thereof) and he continued to make hurtful comments ("You have no natural affection; getting you in the mood isn't worth the effort; sex is a waste of time.") We grew further and further apart.

 

Finally months after I told him I was thinking about leaving, I entered therapy. We had never been more distant. I was depressed and hurting and confused, unable to give him what he wants which is June Cleaver with 8 kids.

 

Next thing I know, I found myself involved in an affair. I was so lonely, bored, and abandoned, feeling like a failure, like the "bad guy" it was amazing that there was someone else out there that wanted to talk to me and spend time with me. I also found out that I am not frigid. I thought for the last ten years that I was.

 

My husband has found out. Although I have ended the affair, he has become verbally abusive, calling me a * * * * * and a harlot, mocking me, raising his voice, and he has told everything to the pastor (who he thinks is his best friend, spiritual leader, and counselor. The man is not qualified to do therapy). I have since been removed from church membership (which is fine by me, their views on women are misogynist and I finally had had enough anyway and left).

 

The setup is this: Husband told me if I didn't tell him the details of the affair, he would file separation. My therapist told me that if I divulged all the details, my husband would forever punish me for it and we would end up divorced. He is already killing me with what he DOES know - every time we argue it is the same thing - offensive comments to me about the other guy. So I refused to talk anymore. Basically I am damned if I do and damned if I do not.

 

Now husband is planning on filing. I tried very hard to make this work. I know I screwed up and I wish I could take it back. We have gone to therapy six times but every time we went, my husband used it as a platform to punish me for the affair and make demands. He flat out refuses to work on the rest of the issues in our marriage until "the real problem is solved" - my affair. I don't know what else to say, it is over and I am sorry. I broke down in tears in therapy but my husband doesn't think I am sufficiently repentent. I guess with my husband I am never sufficiently anything - not sufficiently enthusiastic about the dishes, not sufficiently sorry for my screwups.

 

I continue therapy on my own. I have read a stack of self-help manuals, journaled, make the therapy appointments, tried talking to him, nothing seems to help. At this point it seems over but I cannot help but look backwards. I have emotionally left the relationship but I still have long, painful moments of regret and fear.

 

This marriage had issues from the start and I couldn't help but feel pessimistic. Husband has not filed paperwork yet but has been threatening for two months and apparently has finally decided.

 

How can I deal with the guilt and fear that I didn't do enough, or that I am losing what could have been saved?

[Dako]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I gather you just aren't happy with this guy, and went elsewhere for affection. Other than cheating, I don't see anything to feel guilty for.

Many people have a dim view of other people's separations and divorces, but when your marriage is unhappy it's time to deal with it. You've done the homework and tried, but even if you both overcame the affair, is there enough left to salvage?

 

Have you considered that he might be happier with a devout, submissive wife and kids while he plays video games?

You deserve a better life, too. One with affection and joy.

[Lana0120]

I don't think you can stay in a marriage where a husband is 'laying down the law', verbally abusing you and issuing you with ultimatums. I can understand why he finds it difficult that you don't want to have children - and why he hoped you might change, but he shouldn't put pressure on you like this. What you did was wrong - you didn't just 'find' yourself having an affair, you made that choice. At the same time, he should either deal with it and forgive you, or end your marriage rather than take this kind of action. I also agree with what your therapist said - he'll hold it over you for the rest of your marriage, if you do tell him all the details. It just sounds like you two aren't compatible anymore.

[Optigan]

Did you tell him Jesus doesn't like excessive gaming?

[Aurian]

Speaking as someone who went through a divorce... its a very scary prospect when someone is continually beating you over the head with divorce, verbally abusing you and convincing you that you are worthless, especially if you have some affection for them still.

 

I think you should sit down and try look at this logically. Is he ever going to change? Doesn`t seem like it, he only gets worse. He is in a church that is mysoginistic and he is treating you badly. Do you really want to stay in this marriage? There doesn`t seem to be any foundation to rebuild; its just a mess of disrespect and conflict.

 

Sometimes divorce can be very freeing. I kinda shocked my ex with turning around and filing on him after being threatened and beat over the head with nasty words and threats of divorce for so long. It was very very scary (I still loved him) but it was also very very freeing not to deal with his abusive ways any longer.

 

I am happy now.

[law1204]

Thank you all so much for your replies, I appreciate the input deeply as this is a very trying and emotional time.

 

Lana, you are right, one does not "find oneself" in an affair - there are definitely choices involved. The wording I chose was poor. I did not intend to give the impression that I was not to blame for my reprehensible choice.

 

I know this sounds terrible but I have been unhappy for a long time and it is almost as if my infidelity finally brought things to a head so that I really know now what kind of person I married. I hesitate to think, though, that the personality traits he is exhibiting are the true him. Maybe they are the exception brought out by his emotional trauma over this. I still find myself giving him the benefit of the doubt. Even so, there is no excuse for the way he has treated me.

 

Optigan: LOL - at this point, if he were a drug abuser, he would be dead. His day is literally spent parked in front of his computer. He wakes up, hits the bathroom, and then goes to the computer. An hour or three later, he gets a cup of coffee. If he has a job to do (he receives service calls and works from home) he will go to that then come home and return immediately to his computer. Occasionally he spends an hour in front of the TV, and occasionally he'll do a chore or two and cook. Then it's back to the computer. The time he has spent in the last ten years gaming, he could have had several college degrees by now if he had spent the time in school instead. (I am a working college student, hoping one day to enter law school - he told me he thinks it is - exact word - DISTURBING that I would rather have a career than be a stay at home mom.)

 

I looked back at the pictures I have of him. Fully three quarters of them are taken of him in front of his computer.

 

Aurian: The only way I expect him to change is if he starts going to individual therapy (he won't go - "what's the point") and addressing not only himself but the marriage. However, he has declared our marital issues off limits until he is satisfied that I appear sufficiently repentent for my sin, and the first step to doing that, in his mind, is to tell all. I am not sure if the pastor of his church has encouraged this line of thinking, but if I find out it is, I will confront that pastor for helping to destroy my marriage.

 

My husband and I had our good moments. We really did. I can't forget about those or let my bitterness and unhappiness cloud my memory of the past. It was never supposed to be like this. I wish I could go back to the exact point where it became too wrong to repair.

 

I look forward to being on my own for the first time in my life (I am 29 and have been with him since I was 19) but am still scared to be without him. He's all I have ever really known.

[tgt]

I too had a lot of hours spent in front of the computer gaming screen during my marriage. So many that now as I look back at them I felt really one dimensional. Computer games were the ultimate escape - a retreat from all your problems and responsibilities into a virtual world that included people who didnt know (or care) about your real life in most cases.

 

MMORPGs in particular are just like drugs or alcohol in a lot of ways. I gamed so much because I was unhappy with my real life. Not enough real life friends or other interests that were as compelling. The easy route was to game. I lived for the time when I could be online doing fun things with my online friends. After 12 years of marriage my wife was also starting to do this as well - and met a man in the same guild I was in and had an affair. That changed my perspective on my own life quite dramatically and painfully. I think the most important thing I learned was that it wasnt the gaming itself as much as the lack of balance and priorities in my own life - plus I was avoiding the painful growth issues I needed to address. My escape into the gaming world allowed me escape from my own problems and resentment of my wife - so it consuming many hours of my life.

[law1204]

tgt, you are right. My husband has said he uses his computer to escape. I look back and cannot honestly see what it is he was escaping from. It got so bad that he developed a life-threatening blood clot in his leg from sitting so much.

 

I guess my question is, what made you realize this was a problem and how did you overcome it? Was it just your wife's affair? Because my affair has made my husband's gaming worse (if that were possible).

[tgt]

I didnt really confront my own problems (excessive escaping mostly) until I realized I had already lost my wife to another man. I had grown complacent and didn't realize what bad shape I myself was in. Losing her caused me to realize I wasn't living life and was more miserable with myself than I knew.

 

I think if my wife gave me an ultimatum it would have had the same effect. Having her fall for another guy was incredibly painful and the worst experience in my life. Pain = Motivation to change. Make him feel some pain if you love him and give him motivation to straighten out his life or he will lose his way of life and you.

[law1204]

tgt, thank you for your advice. My affair seems to have made the situation worse. He has gone from being complacent, emotionally unavailable, and hurtful, to being obsessive and abusive and totally disconnected. The only sounds in our house are the computer, the television, and the cats meowing.

 

I told him back in October I was thinking about leaving. You would think that would have motivated him to do *something* but I guess he doesn't hear a word I say. He told the therapists when I brought this up that he didn't know what to do. The answer is to do nothing???

 

He has made me cry in front of him twice in the last 3.5 months but both times he did not reach out to comfort me, touch or hold me. The first time was before my affair. My therapist wonders why he is so unloving.

 

When I come back from vacation (am going alone), I plan on moving out of this house provided my attorney says I stand to lose nothing by doing so. The environment here is so unhealthy I cannot imagine living this way for any length of time.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You might want to have a look at this site: link removed

 

It is about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissists are all about themselves. They want Narcissistic Supply, which means someone to run after them and adore them. Once they have that, they push them aside. Even if he doesn't have this Disorder, there is clearly something wrong with him. While your affair may have been wrong, it doesn't change the fact that his behaviour is wrong and hurtful. Perhaps you might want to call his bluff and file for divorce. Walk out of his life and leave him to his Church and his computer games. Nobody deserves to be abused and you deserve to be free of someone who is going to drag you down and make you cry.

[law1204]

Thanks, C, I will look at that link. My therapist did say once or twice in therapy in response to something I said about what my husband had said to me, "It's all about him."

 

Makes sense, since he is trying to control everything from my emotions to the course of the therapy. As Dr. Phil would say, I wonder how that is working for him. Guess he'll have to ask himself that when I am gone.

 

We still do not acknowledge each other's presense in the house, there is no speaking, greeting, anything. Me, it's self defense. Not sure what his excuse is. Is he afraid I'll get mad? Maybe if he stopped talking to me like I am a stranger off the street, I wouldn't be upset.

 

To think he accuses ME of being hostile.

 

Was reading an old chat archive I saved between myself and a friend of mine where I had told my friend how my husband would run the vacuum cleaner, coffee grinder, garage door, table saw, lawn mower, or any other noisy appliance first think Saturday morning while I was still trying to sleep.

 

I spent every weekend last September cleaning the house so he could have people over, half the time he didn't ask me, he just told me, "Oh, the so-and-so's are coming over today, clean the bathroom."

 

He even cut an outing (few and far between) short so he could run home and cook dinner for "friends" who invited themselves over (but never have us over). In fact, we were supposed to go to Europe this coming year, including Paris. He invited "friends" along - this older couple from church. WHO INVITES FRIENDS to go with you on a trip to Paris with your wife?????

 

I can't think of a single thing good between us.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Also check out link removed. Passive Aggressive personality disorder can go hand in hand with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Having another couple or another person go with the couple on a trip seems to be a common typical ploy of Passive Aggressives/Narcissists. It is a way of avoiding intimacy. Think back on other trips you took together..was there a third party along. With these type of people, it is endless emotional games...they don't care about hurting you...they don't want intimacy...they just want you begging because it feeds their ego. The games typically also include destructive behaviours. The Passive Aggressive website I mentioned has an archived guestbook and the women had described all kinds of games their husbands played. I am not surprised that you husband turned on noisy appliances while you were sleeping. It is all part of the game to get under your skin. That is the sick pleasure they have. I had a pseudo-relationship with someone and I couldn't understand his behaviours...after reading the stuff about Passive Aggressives and Narcissists, I realize now that is what I was dealing with. Reading that also shed light on the behaviours of one of my male friends as well as on my mother. Both clearly Passive Aggressives/Narcissists. Once you understand the behaviours, it is a bit easier to deal with because you know that it is them, not you. You can almost predict what they are going to do. It seems that most marriages with Passive Aggressives/Narcissists either end up splitting at some point, or they just remain unhappy and empty. In the case of my parents, my father just caves in.

[law1204]

Yes, I do have a coworker who knows my situation and says my husband is passive-aggressive. I was reading the site you gave me about narcissism, I skipped to the part about abuse and it said something interesting about how abusers will use other people to control you.

 

After my affair, my husband called both the church pastor and my own father, basically "siccing" them on me.

 

I don't know about destructive behavior but it always seems to be my things that get broken (accidentally, of course). He also hacked Windows on my laptop and stole the password to my journal.

 

The site you gave me said to respond with full arsenal at the first transgression. My husband calling me a wh0re was my last straw. I come from a family where my father was extremely violent towards my mother. He called her every filthy name in the book, including the above, while he was beating the crap out of her.

 

I told my husband his language would not be tolerated, that is what I grew up around, and I would NEVER let anyone make me feel that way.

 

His response was to mock me - he actually made fun of me. He did the same when I asked him for certain sexual favors as well. It seems to be his favorite way lately of making me feel about 1" tall.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Sigh. I know a little bit about what you are going through...when someone hurts you and then finds your pain amusing. Sick, sick people. Remember that people who do stuff like that hate themselves. Narcissists and passive aggressives and anybody with one of the personality disorders are highly insecure people who hate themselves. That is why they trash those who love them...because if a person loves them, that person must be worthless, because who would love them when they don't even love themselves. As painful as the mocking is, don't take it personally...take it from whom it comes. You grew up with an abusive father so you know the drill. I learned after years of dealing with my mother...not to let the pain show and not to react when something cruel is said. My ex mocked me after I cut of ties with him once he betrayed me. I didn't even feel hurt...I just felt very sad that this is the type of person he turned out to be. I have been through a lot in my life and had to deal with some nasty people in school, in the workplace etc. The strength I gained from dealing with the sh--t has enabled me to develop a very strong self-esteem. Once upon a time, back in the early 90's, I was really emotionally crushed by a man who was also emotionally abusive...it took me a while to fully get over that. Now, this second time around, I am stronger and have not let this guy get the better of me. I have had my share of crying and pain, but it hasn't destroyed my soul and prevented me from being successful in my career and other aspects of my life. I am more sad because I would like to find someone who loves me and has a healthy self-esteem, but all I seem to be finding are men who are really messed up. For that matter, I just seem to look around me and find that there are lots of people, both men and women, who have some kind of personality disorder and self-esteem issues which cause them to behave in a cruel manner to others.

 

Your husband's behaviour is who he is. It is not you. If you divorce and he finds someone else, chances are that new woman will be his next victim. Most people with personality disorders don't recognize that they have a problem, it is always everyone else's fault.

 

The stuff being broken...well, that seems to be a classic. The women who wrote in on that Passive Aggressive website had similar stories. Always "accidental".

 

I would suggest you start taking a good look at your financial situation and perhaps speak to a lawyer. With his kind of personality, things could get really ugly for you so you will need legal advice and a support network. Before you make any moves for divorce, make sure you know your legal rights, make sure you have a place to go and make sure you have people to turn to for help.

[law1204]

Crazy, thanks for your replies. It sounds like we have both been through some serious stuff. But like you, I have not let him drag me down.

 

I have always known that my husband had very low self esteem. He has had an episode or 4 over the years where he would directly push me away because he hates how he looks or some such. I think the fact that he has continually pushed me away to some degree has to do with that.

 

I know not to take to heart the things that he says; it's hard not to but I do like myself and I think that if I truly believed him, I would be a quivering blob of sobbing goo a long time ago.

 

Basically right now I just find the environment that I live in extremely unhealthy. You cannot live with someone, your spouse whom you have been in the same relationship with for ten years, in total silence. I can't tolerate that and don't see how anyone could or how anyone could expect that to help the relationship.

 

Like I said in my first post, I have tried to make this work but he will not work with me; instead he just wants to be in charge. Our relationship started with an ultimatum, I guess it is only fitting that it ends with one.

 

As for my support network, I have one best girlfriend, a few very supportive coworkers who can be bribed to help me move, and a guy I work with has his own house and is offering to let me be his housemate. I have an attorney who, along with her parter, specializes in collaborative law, and I see my therapist on a regular basis. I don't stand to make much from this divorce but it should be enough to buy my own place to live, though not much, and I make enough at work to pay my bills if I am careful. My dad and stepmom, though they live in Florida, are also supportive.

 

I wish I had more friends, and that is something I continue to work on, but if my mom make it on her own with two kids and no degree, I can too.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Be careful about moving in with a male housemate. It could be construed as you having an affair and leaving him for another man. This could complicate the divorce and make you look like the bad one. Talk to your attorney before deciding on moving in with a male. Even though it is platonic, appearances are everything, unfortunately.

[dyoung]

I'm sorry to hear about your relationship

 

but so many things went wrong probably from jump, and it aint no used to crying over spilled milk, especially in this case!

 

I'm not going to point a finger at either of you, but what I will say is this

its time to move on...

 

I'm not sure what was up with the video games or even if it was a problem and you are blowing it up.

But this whole church issue, is a CULT! (This is a problem). Him attempting to degrade you for having feelings is pathic (sp?) Him attempting to punish verbally and mentally for your mistakes is also pathic (sp?)

 

Be a man admit when your wrong then sh&t or get off the pot.

[lucyintheskywithdiamonds]

"I found myself spiraling into a scary depression. I told him last year I was thinking about leaving. He did not react."

 

Dear friend.

 

First of all. I am also a Christian.

 

Our stories have many similarities - but when I read this 'he did not react' it was like a bomb over me - I lived the same. When I told my husband I wasn't sure I wanted to stay with him, he simply told me I am always pushing him on money ( God Knows this is so not true!!!) and then he started playing Fight Simulator for 12, 14 hours a DAY , for the 7 days off he had taken to spend holidays with his family.

 

Well if I had doubts... this showed me that life was NOT what I wanted to live. I got depressed, I stopped eating, I lost almost 40 pounds. I was in hell.... and the guilt of being a Christian was killing me.

 

I tried conseling with and without him. I was able to tell him things that I was not able without the therapeut. I am on my own now, and he has helped me a lot. She made me realiza that GOD knows my heart, while people judge me without knowing what's on the inside. I had to learn how to live in accordance to what God sees in me - even though people around think I should give him a chance, I should try to stay to recconect emotionally with him, I should stay for the kids, blabla. thay dont know what I feel, how I feel, only God knows it.

 

so... believe in this trurth and SEEK FOR INTEGRITY WITH GOD.

 

forget the others.

 

love,

 

Lucy

[law1204]

Thank you all again for such kind responses.

 

I have been on vacation for the last week and a half visiting my brother and then my parents in Florida. I tried relaxing and seeking everyone's advice, especially my parents. They have been very emotionally supportive of me and right now I wish I had never come home:

 

I basically have been home for less than three hours and my husband wasn't home when I got here. When he did come home about 45 minutes ago, the first thing he did was pop up his "are you sorry yet" test and then called me names - evil, arrogant, self-absorbed. He didn't call me one time while I was gone. Not one.

 

I sit here in tears, wishing I had someone right now to talk to. My husband attacks me, I defend myself, and afterward it hurts so much I want to just crawl into a hole and die.

 

I meet with my attorney and my therapist both on Tuesday.

 

As for the male housemate, he is about my dad's age. I am 29 and he is in his fifties. I know about appearances but if it has gotten to the point where I am leaving my house, how I appear is of lesser concern than making sure I have a roof over my head that I can afford.

 

Speaking of Christianity, that part has been hard for me too. I am back at the beginning of a spiritual journey. My dad tried to counsel me to return to church again and find my faith. I am not sure what I will be doing in that regard going forward, but suffice it to say that I am never going back to my husband's church, and finding another one seems like a good idea because I can use all the counseling and support I can get. I just want to find a loving pastor to talk to to help me not just with my marital strife, but my loss of faith as well. I believe in God and that is the extent of my belief system right now.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

It sounds like your husband is really losing it. Clearly his self-esteem is in the toilet so the only way to build it up is to put you down. I am sure it is very demoralizing. Just keep reminding yourself that it is his problem, his hangups, his emotional immaturity. The loss of faith has to do with the troubles you have dealt with. I too lost faith about 15 years ago. Too many disappointments and hurts in my life caused me to lose spirituality and faith in G-D. It has only been within the last 5 years that I regained my spirituality and faith in G-D. Ironically, my faith was slowly being restored because of my relationship with my now ex who was very involved in religion and spiritual matters. His involvement with religion inspired me to read and learn more about the religious and spiritual matters...and I started thinking more about the path my life had taken and how it seemed like I was being guided along by an unseen entity (G-D) who seemed to know better than I did what was good for me!

 

I hope things go well for you.

[ramsickle1369]

Law--I'm sorry to hear of your pain. I know it well. This guy sounds like an emotional abuser to me. He's all about him and what HE wants and doesn't sound like he gives a second thought of what YOU need. A marriage is NOT a dictatorship. It's two equals supporting each other. I get the feeling that the "baby" issue is just something to help mask the real issue--control.

 

It's a shame that you did give in to your temptations, but I COMPLETELY understand. And before I was in that situation, I never dreamed that I would EVER consider it. So PLEASE do not let ANYONE judge you for your actions. You also need to stop blaming yourself.

 

It sounds like HE isn’t willing to work on the marriage and I say, stop waiting on HIM to file the papers… File them YOURSELF. Exert some power within you and show him that you are NOT a doormat. And if this is how he chooses to deal with your problems (i.e., NOT dealing with them at all) then you want no part of it.

 

Something to think about… what was the reason you didn’t want children? It is entirely possible that with the right partner, you may just find that paternal instinct… maybe not. Consider telling your Husband something like this: “God has told me that I am not supposed to have children.”

 

It’s a real shame when people go to church and suddenly decide that THEY are God and attempt to judge and change everyone around them. They miss the whole point of the bible! Unconditional Love. He’s about as far from it as one can be and this is what gives religion such a bad rap. The hypocritical jerks that point the fingers at someone else because of their own insecurities of themselves! ARRRG! (sorry… had to throw that one in there.)

[law1204]

Hi Crazy and Ramsickle:

 

Thanks for your responses, both of you. Here is a short update.

 

Husband sent me an email yesterday basically asking, Please can we work this out and what can I do."

 

It surprised me that he asked.

 

We have been exchanging emails since yesterday and even had dinner together last night, and I told him all about my vacation. I even gave him the gift I bought for him while I was away.

 

The email exchange has not gotten any better, though. Discussion is still hurtful and contentious, even though he told me he would stop calling me names. I guess I am just afraid - even though he doesn't say things that are deliberately hurtful, he hasn't apologized, and continues to assume the worst motivations on my part. I told him I was thinking about moving out, and he seems angry that the answer to us working things out was "no." It's not an absolute no, but the entire exchange left me feeling like he isn't hearing what I say. I respond to his emails line by line, but he just types answers that are not responses to anything I said.

 

This all wouldn't hurt so much if I still didn't care about him and remember how things used to be. He says I am completely different than the woman he married and it is impossible to love me now.

 

I feel like every time it even looks like we might be even remotely able to talk, let alone work things out, I distance myself on purpose. I think about moving forward without him a lot, at least as much as I think about staying.

 

This situation is so depressing. Tonight I see my therapist and I leave to see my attorney shortly.

 

Just also talked to my parents again and my stepmom said to go to therapy alone, and that it is normal to feel so confused.

 

Why does he want to work things out if he believes I am evil? That I am abnormal and that he doesn't love me?

 

What is really going on here???

[tgt]

Not sure what insight I can provide but our situations are similar so I'll put down some thoughts for you here. The range of emotions you experience when you are going through this contribute to unpredictability. It's very possible he is realizing what he is losing at this point - but hasnt changed or understood enough about himself to know what to change to help the situation. As we lose our spouse - the motivation for change and introspection on the relationship becomes overwhelming and we reach out - confusing our spouse.

 

From what you previously said, he has a LOT of maturing to do. Perhaps this is the initial stage of that realization - let's hope so.

[ramsickle1369]

Discussion is still hurtful and contentious, even though he told me he would stop calling me names.

He’s calling you NAMES?!!! Stop all contact for a little while and let him simmer down a bit. And by a little while, I mean a couple weeks. Things are far too heated and deep-rooted to blow over in a day or two.

even though he doesn't say things that are deliberately hurtful

Sweetheart, I know this will sound awful because you don’t want to ever believe that he could be the person that he is being, but he IS Deliberately hurting you. He’s doing it because he’s hurting, too.

 

I told him I was thinking about moving out, and he seems angry that the answer to us working things out was "no."

You do need space. You need to be away from each other and let the emotions settle down so that you can fully comprehend what it is that YOU want. At this point, it’s not about what he wants – seems that was the problem all along. You need to take care of you. Hard as it is to walk out, it really will take time apart for both of you to decipher all that you’re feeling and truly determine if this is something worth salvaging. Initiate NC with him. Take the time to get to know the deepest part of your soul and what you feel deep inside is best for you. A response like “but I love him” is truly self-destructible, so please try to put that aside, you already know you love him.

 

He says I am completely different than the woman he married and it is impossible to love me now.

Another jab at you… it’s a defensive mechanism. He needs to see what his life will truly be like without you in it before he determines that he will do “anything” to keep you.

 

Just also talked to my parents again and my step-mom said to go to therapy alone, and that it is normal to feel so confused.

She’s absolutely right. It’s a terribly emotional time for you, hun. You have to stop after so many years of trying to please him, assess what it is you are trying to achieve, and what it will really take for you to attempt reconciliation. What’s YOUR bottom line?

 

Why does he want to work things out if he believes I am evil? That I am abnormal and that he doesn't love me?

Still—this is his defense mechanism. You have to get strong and decide what it is that YOU want from all this. What’s best for YOU? Not an easy answer by the way. I think therapy will be a wonderful thing to you. Be sure that your therapist is challenging you a little, not one of those that just agree with you to make you feel better.

 

It's very possible he is realizing what he is losing at this point - but hasn’t changed or understood enough about himself to know what to change to help the situation. As we lose our spouse - the motivation for change and introspection on the relationship becomes overwhelming and we reach out - confusing our spouse.

I agree completely. The range of emotion you feel is pretty much every emotion we EVER feel—ALL AT ONCE! It’s awful and can really break you down physically, too—so be sure you’re eating right and exercise – this is a great way to avoid clinical depression… I’m sure you’re already feeling the typical situational depression. Also, please be wary of prescription drugs. They should only be a last resort as they do NOT “fix” the problems and they also can have serious side affects, (i.e., Paxil turned my friend into an alcoholic).

 

I’m sure he’s feeling lost and lashing out right now. He’s going to employ every trick he feels will “work” to get you “back”. But you don’t want to go back to the way things were… you need them to go forward. This is where the space between you comes in. I strongly recommend no contact because he isn’t respecting you and your needs. He’s not showing you true, UNCONDITIONAL, “I just want you to be happy” love. He’s only looking out for himself. Not to say that he’ll be there forever, but he needs to get past the initial anger to decide he wants to really be a different person for you.

 

It is likely that you’ve both changed. I’m sure you didn’t get married in this particular situation and it doesn’t mean love doesn’t still exist. You both have to relearn how to effectively and kindly communicate without your emotions taking over and causing you both to do things you otherwise wouldn’t do.

 

Again—my heart goes to you. It’s an awful thing to uproot yourself and examine your very existence. So please feel free to post anything you want to—no judgment here… We’re just here to support you. I know ENA was EXTREMELY helpful to me last year when I had to do all this. (Thanks ENA, btw!)