Ok we've established that girls want to be chased....

[shyguy1]

At least generally speaking.

 

We've also established that in the average situation the male does in fact initiate things.

 

My question is as follows:

 

Is there any hope for the male who has not and perhaps never will be comfortable getting things moving?

 

I'll put it this way... I truly do want to work on and fix my current situation. I realize it's going to take alot of work and even some rewiring of my basic thought process, but assuming I am able to gain self confidence and acceptance of who I am... and on top of that find a way to kick my depression to the curb, I can still quite easily see a situation where I'm still not comfortable being the *typical* male and doing the approaching myself.

 

I suppose I'm just a 'laid back' sort of person and might never be the type willing to go up to a girl and ask her out.

 

Assuming this were to in fact happen, then what? Would my odds of finding a girl to date.. and perhaps eventually something more go down to the point of being almost nonexistent?

 

I'll paraphrase this by saying I'm aware that there are girls who are a little more open about being the initiator for themselves.... but are they as few and far between as I've been led to believe?

[Entropy Smith]

Is there any hope for the male who has not and perhaps never will be comfortable getting things moving?

No. Get comfortable getting things moving. It will be awkward. It will require your ego to take some blows. Its like studying a martial art, the learning process never really ends.

 

I'll put it this way... I truly do want to work on and fix my current situation. I realize it's going to take alot of work and even some rewiring of my basic thought process, but assuming I am able to gain self confidence and acceptance of who I am... and on top of that find a way to kick my depression to the curb, I can still quite easily see a situation where I'm still not comfortable being the *typical* male and doing the approaching myself.

 

 

1)Learn to approach indirectly.

2) Strengthen your direct approach by practicing in situations where your ego isn't on the line so much.

 

I suppose I'm just a 'laid back' sort of person and might never be the type willing to go up to a girl and ask her out.

Its really not as terrifying as your making it out to be. Because your willing to learn and are sort of analyzing what is going on there is hope for you and i am confident you will find your way.

 

Assuming this were to in fact happen, then what? Would my odds of finding a girl to date.. and perhaps eventually something more go down to the point of being almost nonexistent?

Self acceptance and self-confidence will emliminate this fear. You have already stated you are going to work on doing this.

 

Women will approach you and invite you to ask them out in many different ways. You have to build them a bridge. That bridge is built on confidence, humility, and communication skills. All of which are in your grasp Jedi...

 

...now put down the drink and start doing some physical training of some kind...

[Lana0120]

Entopy's given you some good advice. There might be some rare girl who would walk up to you and initiate things, but in the scheme of things, it's pretty unlikely. You need to get out there and get moving!

[bubblyblonde11]

Entopy's given you some good advice. There might be some rare girl who would walk up to you and initiate things, but in the scheme of things, it's pretty unlikely. You need to get out there and get moving!

 

Pursue is a better word, donno why I used chase in my title of my thread, pursue is the better way.

 

Basically go after what you want, You do not sit at home waiting for someone to knock at your door and offer you a job cause it just is not likely to happen. If you want a new job you go out and go to job centre/recruitment co/companies to find one you like, then you put together your application to put your best most positve side accross.

 

Same goes with your love life IMO.

[shyguy1]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I guess I'm just having trouble accepting the 'male role' of being the one that gets the ball moving.... would be nice if it were a little more evenly split..... because I'm shy among other reasons and it would make things alot easier for we shy guys.

 

However whether I think it's fair or not... whether I agree with it or not... and whether I feel comfortable doing it or not, I acknowledge that's simply the way it's going to be and I have to get used to it and prepare myself from there.

 

For what it's worth I vow to get to that point.

[matts0344]

I feel the same way as you sometimes shyguy, it sucks having to put my ego on the line.

 

In a lot of settings though, the girls can do a lot of the initiaiting, indirectly of course. Say you are looking around the room and make eye contact with a women, if she holds it for a bit longer than usual and you don't look away and maybe give off a smile (you, her, or both) than I usually approach.

 

So the girls I approach, I'm pretty sure they are somewhat interested already, which helps.

 

I'm really shy so I've only done it a few times where I was really comfortable, it went ok, I usually screw it up once we really get talking though, hahah.

[Batya33]

I am not a girl (woman) and I don't like being chased. That said, I strongly prefer that the man do more of the asking, initiating and planning in the beginning. In certain circumstances I would be willing to ask the man out - but typically that is ineffective if the woman wants a long term relationship. I have asked several men out - no big deal and if I can do it, you can ;-) After that, I really doubt I would want to be the one doing more of the asking, planning or initiating.

 

I would not date a man who wasn't willing to put in the effort and risk to ask me out (I am warm, friendly, approachable to those people i am interested in so it's low risk or no risk) because if I am in a relationship it needs to be with someone who is reasonably confident and reasonably assertive and (reasonably) social/outgoing. If he can't or doesn't want to ask me out on a date I start to doubt whether he has those qualities.

 

A woman who wants to be in total control of a man and thereforeeee wants more of a doormat/passive type might be interested in doing more of the calling, pursuing and initiating. With one exception - an article I read in a major newspaper last month where the woman took the "man's" role and they are happily married (both in their 30s) - of course it was so unusual that it was newsworthy. I think it is unusual because women know that men are flattered to be asked out much of the time but it is very rare that that is the woman they will choose for a long term relationship.

[russ978]

Is there any hope for the male who has not and perhaps never will be comfortable getting things moving?

 

I suppose I'm just a 'laid back' sort of person and might never be the type willing to go up to a girl and ask her out.

 

Shyguy,

 

There is always hope in all circumstances.

 

Just because you don't ask a girl out doesn't mean things can't 'get moving' with someone in the future. Many women will just spark up conversations if you are sitting up at the bar. I think it has more to do with you being in an approachable area where a lady with a little gumption can chat you up.

 

I'm curious as to why you 'might never' be able to ask a girl out. It is like playing the lottery, you may win big and it only costs a dollar to play (I don't play the lottery) but with dating, asking a girl out costs you nothing and your odds are certainly better than 180,000,000:1 (or whatever)

 

Life is not a dress rehersal, you are the hero, the comic, the tradgey, the adventure, or the dream you choose. All you have to do is improv the lines since there's no script.

 

BTW, I used to be shy as all heck, I ran into an old high school teacher a couple months back and she couldn't believe that " just spoke more in the past five minutes than I did during an entire year in her class." It really does take some work to scare away the shyness...but it REALLY IS worth it.

 

Good luck buddy!

[hosswhispra]

I could not have said (written ) this any better, myself.

 

I am like Batya in that I can and have asked men out in the past, sure it's nerve-racking but if I can do it well you guys can, too

 

Like Batya, I would much prefer a man do more of the asking, initiating and planning in the beginning--honestly, if you want to know the truth fellows, it makes me feel more like a woman.

[Miss M]

I've known a lot of laid-back guys who have no trouble getting dates with more assertive women. But I don't know how those fine details are done. I would imagine at the very least you have to be willing to indicate your interest and availability. I "catch" guys checking me out all the time, and when I look at them they look away. And then when I look away they check me out again (they don't know I can see them, hehe). I usually won't approach guys who look away, because I read that as "not available, just window shopping" but if he lets himself get caught looking, there's a good chance he'll at least get a smile and a hello from me, or maybe even more.

[Miss M]

I should also say (erm, admit?), that whenever I look at a guy that I find attractive (drooling really), I also look away when he looks at me. [argh! #-o] Yeah, it's an old habit I'm trying very hard to break. ](*,)

[Dating Coach]

It's just like money. It doesn't fall into your lap. Sure, a person might get lucky with a lotto ticket or an investment without doing too much, but the fact is that the harder you work the more likely you will make more... especially if you have some advice guiding you along the way.

 

The point is that sure, you might have something fall in your lap, but the chances of that happening are far fewer than if you were to actively work for it with a bit of guidence as well.

 

I've found in my life that I am most depressed when I do nothing. If I sit there and be a victim of where my life is going... I feel helpless, ashamed, and down. But when I start taking control and shaping my life... I feel more powerful and happy that I am guiding my life.

 

Perhaps this is part of your problem? Perhaps the fact that you feel helpless is feeding your depression? I know facing your fears is not an easy thing, but no one said life was easy.

[bexcelant]

There is always chasing and ambushing them for wives.

 

There is even biblical precedent for this hahaha.

 

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

 

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

[Miss M]

One point I was trying to make to the OP... if a guy wasn't really the chasing type, if that's just not his style at all, and is not the way he's wired... but if he was just able to let me know he was truly interested... if we could just establish eye contact, a connection, a smile, something. He wouldn't have to chase me for months to prove to me that he's worth my attention and affection.

 

Personally, I'm not really into guys who chase/pursue... I find them annoying. As I stated in another thread I tend to be more compatible and interested in the guy who hangs back, not the eager ones. I'm more of the type that once it's established we're mutually interested in each other, we're doing it together, not one playing one role and the other playing a different role. It's kinda like a "I like you, do you like me" thing. Right at the very beginning (for me) it's more of a mutual curiosity. Then we explore from there to see if it's worth having another look, go on a few dates. It's more like we're just exploring together, as a team, and the actual chasing/pursuing flows back and forth more equally.

 

Of course, I'm single... and for a long time now... so that doesn't give me any credibility, right? Well, I also know I can't change me to play a role that doesn't suit me. And I'd like to find a guy who matches me, instead of trying to fit myself to be something I'm not. And that also helps with my depression.

 

And I also know women who like to do ALL of the chasing/planning/pursuing, while the guy does none. There are people like that in the world, and when they find each other they are happy. Do what you need to get out of your depression, but also try to learn to accept those hard-wired things about yourself.

 

My question is as follows:

 

Is there any hope for the male who has not and perhaps never will be comfortable getting things moving?

Yes, I think so, just like I also still have hope for the woman who would be the best match for him.

 

I'll paraphrase this by saying I'm aware that there are girls who are a little more open about being the initiator for themselves.... but are they as few and far between as I've been led to believe?

I have no idea about the actual percentages, but it probably varies region to region, neighborhood to neighborhood. Although, I really suspect there are more of the "other" types than what is often reported. Perhaps we just hang out in different places?

[Batya33]

That has nothing to do with dating and only has to do with the perspective of women as property that men can claim. Irrelevant comparison.

[Dating Coach]

Miss M, may I ask you a question?

 

When I met my fiance' we were out at a dance club, I saw her and her friends so I went up and introduced myself. I was polite, smiley, make a joke or two, and just chatted for a bit. When my fiance's friends went to dance she stayed to talk for a bit and then I asked her if she would like to dance with me. She said yes and we went and danced for awhile. I then told her I'd like to talk to her again and asked for her phone number. She gave it to me and the rest is history.

 

My question is, was how I met her a chase, or a "in your face" kind of thing in your opinion?

 

BTW, I am not going to analyze your opinion, I won't even respond to it, I am just curious about your point of view.

[Miss M]

I was talking about what suits me, not others. Sorry, if I seem to be talking about others when I'm really just trying to talk about myself and those of us who are wired differently. I see something in the OP's words that speak to me, so I was trying to address that, trying to answer his questions. I don't need to debate it with those who do it differently.

[Dating Coach]

I was talking about what suits me, not others. Sorry, if I seem to be talking about others when I'm really just trying to talk about myself and those of us who are wired differently. I see something in the OP's words that speak to me, so I was trying to address that, trying to answer his questions. I don't need to debate it with those who do it differently.

 

I just said I wasn't going to analyze you or argue with you. I was just wanting to hear your opinion on what YOU think.

[Miss M]

I'm really here for the OP as my priority... not so much interested in deeper discussions of myself.... that is, unless the OP asks...

[BManMcFly]

Hi ShyGuy1... Listen, I'm not sure how old you are, but I was so disturbingly shy when I was younger (when it came to women), that my first girlfriend, the only reason I asked her out was because 2 friends of mine were sick of me talking about her and litterally dragged me up to her.

 

I know that feeling... and I broke myself out of it. Now, I didn't read too much of the other posts so I apologize if I'm paraphrasing others.

 

I'll add my comments to your post in bold.

 

 

And, Yes again, women approach average looking guys, like us, so seldom that I'm not joking when I say that 3 women have initiated conversations with me with intent of getting to know me (prbly closer to 10 if you count the ones that would hope to get a free drink out of me

[Red Fox]

My question is as follows:

 

Is there any hope for the male who has not and perhaps never will be comfortable getting things moving?

 

Yes I think there is some hope.

 

I think a woman coming up to a man at random (say in a pub) and saying something like "hey you look nice, I'll buy you a drink, let's go somewhere quiet" would be a very rare event.

 

What I don't think would be rare would be a woman to come up to a man she has never met and start a conversation. Also I don't think it would be rare for a woman to initiate things if she was interested. What I mean by initiate here would be in terms of her body language, her saying and doing things to try and increase the chances of meeting the guy again, and dropping clues all the time.

 

I have been out with a woman who took the first move by approaching me first, being subtly flirty from the start, and always "accidentally" meeting up with me. I also know people who have been approached by women first so it really does happen.

 

So there is some hope of this happening if you don't make the first move. If you never make the first move though then you are "limiting yourself" to women who have a personality that lends itself to making the first move. Don't get me wrong at all there is nothing wrong with this "sort" of woman, the women I have met who are like this are really nice (I dated one after all), but it comes down to statistical odds here. The more opportunities you make the more chance you'll get the result you want. It's not easy to find someone you fancy that feels the same way and you have to I think meet a lot of women before this happens. By also making the first move yourself you are increasing your chances.

 

Also a way of increasing your odds of meeting a potential girlfriend would be to spend more time in places where you will encounter women (that sounds really stupid and obvious I know but it's true). Things such as clubs and societies, sports groups, evening classes, holidays, nights out, and even online games (link removed) might be good.

 

Finally I'd say that if you are lucky enough for a woman to make the first move with you then you need to be able to give positive signals back soon after she starts (if you like her like that). If you give out negative body language or seem not as interested (because maybe for example you are nervous) then she is likely to stop because she might think you are not interested. Even if she makes the first moves it probably won't be "easy" for things to develop.

 

Hope some of that made sense.