"Pick-Up Artist". I want to settle the misconceptions right now.

[Dating Coach]

There is something with that label... "Pick Up Artist" that causes an immediate image to pop into a persons head. From what I've seen on these forums is that the image that pops up is one of a "Player" or a "Jerk"... someone whom uses women for what they need (assumed to be sex) and then leaves. There is also an image of a "set of lines" that one must follow in order to meet and attract women. This image that pops into people's minds so quickly and powerfully usually rouses a immediate and negative "knee jerk" response. Very little of these assumptions are based in fact nor are truly understood.

 

What is a PUA? A PUA is nothing more, nothing less, than an individual whom has mastered the art of projecting a positive and romantically attractive image of theirself to the opposite sex in a manner to progress a romantic relationship. That's it.

 

That's a PUA. Nowhere in there does it say that one must lie, cheat, use, have sex, etc. It's just a set of skills that allows you to appear more attractive and appealing as a potential partner.

Sure, there will be some people whom master this skill in order to increase their number of successful One Night Stands, but that doesn't reflect badly on the skill of PUA, but rather on the person itself. Just as if a person spends years mastering Jiu-Jitsu... he can either use his skill for self defense or he can use it to bully people more effectively as the skill made him a better fighter. It doesn't mean the art is bad, just the individual.

 

Now onto the more famous PUA Methods... such as Mystery. There are a few things that need to be understood first.

 

1) It's not only a Method for success, it's also a business. The target of this business are men whom have consistently failed to attract women and are hurting inside as they feel inadequate, inferior, etc... all a part of low self confidence.

Do they model their sales pitch as "Get beautiful women into bed"? Yes. That is a powerful sales pitch to guys whom can't even kiss a girl. It's a sales pitch that tells them that they can help these guys go as far as that. Does that mean that the entire curriculum is just about "getting laid", and fails to offer content as far as developing a real relationship? No. It's a sales pitch. Definitely, if you master PUA you can use it to assist you in getting that far, but who says that has to be your goal? Who says that having developed and strong social skills means you can only use it to get laid? Who says that after you use the skill to correctly telegraph to women that you are an attractive guy that you cannot take that attraction down the road of a relationship? Nothing says that.

Holier than thou people may attack the marketing strategy but doing so completely puts the focus on the wrong thing morally. It's a powerful marketing tool, but nothing more. What you choose to do with the skills you gain is purely up to you and you can easily be using the skills to meet your life-mate... and many guys have.

 

2) Not all of the clueless guys fear is innate, a lot of it has to do with their actual failures. Face it, women can be harsh. I've even seen some of the nicer girls on these forums talk about guys who failed to send them the right signals during their approach and how these girls brutally laughed at them. Even the nice girls are being very rude and hurtful towards guys whom are clueless about how to approach them correctly.

 

You can't take these clueless guys and magically give them the confidence they need. You can't hand them a handbook and say, "Do this" and then push them out the door. It takes not only guidence to help these guys, but also practice.

 

During this time of guidence and practice, you can't say, "Go out there and talk to that girl, smile, be friendly..." etc because most of us guys have done exactly that and have been brutally rebuffed. Yes, even you nice girls do this... and I understand why, so don't be defensive. It's because you get it a lot and it's annoying, especially when a guy makes you feel awkward out of nowhere when you're out trying to have fun with the friends.

 

So it takes more than that simple, "Get're done" approach to guiding these guys, it may take rehersed lines. Not "pick up lines" as they don't exist. But "openers". An Opener is merely what you say to open a conversation. Yes, they may be fake stories, or rehearsed series of lines to open a conversation, but what better way to help get a person used to not only approaching, but approaching in a manner that is teaching them how to appear interesting, send the right unthreatening signals, display value, etc? Telling someone to go do it isn't teaching them this. You will have to reherse openers to learn, the same as you must spar a fake match in martial arts before being able to effectively perform in a real match.

Does this mean that these guys have to always rely on these rehersed openers? No. But obviously they aren't going to be able to learn about how best to present themselves, how best to send the correct signals, how best to pick up on her signals, etc without first being able to practice it. Sure, they may have to use some stories for practice, but that's the point. Once they are comfortable with themselves and their approach, once they know what signals they are sending and how to read the signals women send in return, they will have no need of them. They would have served their purpose.

 

So what is the Social Skillyou are learning? You're learning not only how to be aware of and control the signals you send out to the girl (such as, you want to appear confident and interesting to her and know how tto do that) and what signals she sends back (such as you turn halfway away from her to where she's on your side as you talk to a friend, not excluding her from the conversation but showing one of her friends has your attention... which demonstrates that she's not captured your attention... so when she initiates kino or grabs your arm you know to successfully read that signals as her interest in keeping your focus on her).

 

Being this socially knowledgeable gives you the power to succeed. Not just with women but socially period. You become a more effective person, whatever your goals may be... be it finding your life-mate, being respected by peers, or... yes... even for selfish reasons.

 

None of this "changes who you are". These things are merely tools to assist you. YOU are still YOU and what you choose to do with these tools is up to YOU. If you use it for inconsiderate reasons then that's the type of person you are, these tools didn't make you this. Just as if you are a good guy looking for a life-mate and have failed. All this tool will do will be to not only broaden your options, but also help you with relationships, as you will understand what is happening to a greater detail, and also since you have options that you may have not had before, you will now have a greater understanding that you don't have to stick with a bad relationship just because you finally found one girl whom would be with you. Now you know that if she's treating you unjustly that you have faith you can find someone better... something a lot of clueless and helpless guys don't do. You see that on these forums as well. They sit in bad relationships because they fear being alone, they fear having to go through the dreadful dating scene again... Well fear not, if you are a master of social interraction then this is not something to fear. You will know that you're a success.

[Daddy Bear]

What is a PUA? A PUA is nothing more, nothing less, than an individual whom has mastered the art of projecting a positive and romantically attractive image of theirself to the opposite sex in a manner to progress a romantic relationship. That's it.

 

Real men don't project false and practiced images. They say who they are, and that's what women want.

[dietrying]

Real men don't project false and practiced images. They say who they are, and that's what women want.

 

Exactly. It sucks to fall someone and realize they were using tricks. Someone who is always himself is very admirable and much more appealing to me now. I appreciate it when a guy can show me his flaws.

 

But I'll add that they definitely need to be able to carry on a conversation and stand out a bit from the other guys.

[Adrian28]

I think the problem people have with being a PUA has a lot to do with the current trend towards the feminization of men.

 

In the past, going after and "picking up" women is what men just did. Today, somehow this has become "creepy".

[Raiden]

I'll repeat what I posted in the other PUA-related thread

 

I've always considered the entire so-called "PUA" system cheesy and shallow. Not to mention a bit silly, and Glen Quagmire-esque, frankly. People have tried to persuade me otherwise, though...

 

My £1.89.

[dietrying]

In the past, going after and "picking up" women is what men just did. Today, somehow this has become "creepy".

 

It's creepy because it makes me feel objectified.

[Daddy Bear]

In the past, going after and "picking up" women is what men just did.

 

That's just not true. Protracted courtship was the universally accepted practice until very recently. And for the record, I am not "feminized," I am female-friendly and 100% man.

[tylercdurden2004]

The only interesting thing I find is that people assume that the women want a long term relationship with these guys. Maybe the relationships lasted one night maybe they lasted 6 months. Just like any other relationship.

 

The real issue is people do not feel comfortable when other understand how to manipulate consciously.

 

Yet everyone manipulates whether they know it or not.

 

I believe that is psych 101.

[Shin kensen]

Exactly. It sucks to fall someone and realize they were using tricks.

 

Doesn't have to, I'm good at "picking up girls", (maybe I'm a PUA, who knows)i.e. flirting, making them laugh, generally getting them to like you. But then there's nothing wrong with that, because unless they happen to be particularly attractive, or I happen to be inebriated probably nothing is going to happen.

 

Also by setting yourself in this mentality of "tricks" you might be foolishly pushing yourself away from men that don't use any tricks but you just like them, because you erroneously think there's an ulterior motive.

 

I don't think PUA has to have the image of "jerk" or "player", because those kind of guys are really not good at picking up girls, often their reputation precedes them.

[Daddy Bear]

Quagmire-esque, lol. That so nails it.

[tylercdurden2004]

That's just not true. Protracted courtship was the universally accepted practice until very recently. And for the record, I am not "feminized," I am female-friendly and 100% man.

 

Somebloke

 

You are assuming these are not protracted courtships. What is it that makes you think that?

[Shin kensen]

The real issue is people do not feel comfortable when other understand how to manipulate consciously.

 

Girls wearing low-cut tops, I think that's pretty conscious, yet it sounds like girls are the most afraid.

[Daddy Bear]

Somebloke

 

You are assuming these are not protracted courtships. What is it that makes you think that?

The fact that a player's goal is to 'get' as many 'scores' as he can. If you are into long-term, faithful and committed relationships, you are by definition not a PUA.

[Raiden]

Quagmire-esque, lol. That so nails it.

 

Doesn't it just?

 

I mean, "PUA", to me, implies that finding a date/patner is a 'sport' of some description, despite Diggy's argument for the opposite... It's so lame, I can't even begin to talk about it...

 

 

BTW, I seem to be voicing the same opinions in both of our PUA-related threads. I guess I should pick ONE and stick with it, lol.

[dietrying]

Doesn't have to, I'm good at "picking up girls", (maybe I'm a PUA, who knows)i.e. flirting, making them laugh, generally getting them to like you. But then there's nothing wrong with that, because unless they happen to be particularly attractive, or I happen to be inebriated probably nothing is going to happen.

 

Also by setting yourself in this mentality of "tricks" you might be foolishly pushing yourself away from men that don't use any tricks but you just like them, because you erroneously think there's an ulterior motive.

 

I don't think PUA has to have the image of "jerk" or "player", because those kind of guys are really not good at picking up girls, often their reputation precedes them.

 

If I like someone I don't stop no matter what my head is really telling me...I don't learn.

 

But if a guy doesn't find me particularly attractive and is just flirting for the heck of it, then he get the beep away from me.

[Shin kensen]

Quagmire-esque, lol. That so nails it.

 

aw riiiite. gigiddy giggidy goo!

[Shin kensen]

If I like someone I don't stop no matter what my head is really telling me...I don't learn.

 

But if a guy doesn't find me particularly attractive and is just flirting for the heck of it, then he get the beep away from me.

 

well i wouldnt worry about that if i were you

[hockeyboy]

I watched that PUA show last night for comic relief. That "mystery" character just made me laugh. Goggles on top of his head, the big puffy hats, the shirt made to look like he has tattoo's, the abbreviations for his terms, and the medallions he gives away just made me laugh.

 

I'm sure some women would go for him and his "skills" work quite well. However, if a woman was attracted to that...I would not be attract to her.

With that said...I think it's good to learn how to interact, be social, etc...I just don't like his methods.

[Daddy Bear]

Spasticus Artisticus, the common pickup artist

 

image removed

[Raiden]

Spasticus Artisticus, the common pickup artist

 

image removed

 

ROFLMAO!!!

[tylercdurden2004]

The fact that a player's goal is to 'get' as many 'scores' as he can. If you are into long-term, faithful and committed relationships, you are by definition not a PUA.

 

Where did you read that?

[Adrian28]

It's creepy because it makes me feel objectified.

 

So, a guy wants to know you better and that makes you feel "objectified"??

 

Yes, men are attracted to women.. what a shocker! And btw, he is not making the girl do anything she doesn't want to do. Last I checked, women love men as much as men love women.

 

A "PUA" is just a man who knows how to talk to women. In the past, men learnt this on their own. Now, being a man, knowing how to attract, flirt and turn on women is creepy... that is funny.

 

I would think that the guy who pretends to be your friend, to get to know you better is the "creepy" one. He is hiding his true intent.

 

Men want attractive women for sexual partners! They don't want to be "friends" with them. Only gay men want to be friends with attractive single women. A "PUA" is not hiding his intention. He wants a woman for a relationship. He doesn't want to be her "friend". He is laying his intentions out. Much better that, than a guy who "pretends" to be a girl's friend while he fantasizes about her sexually every night. THAT is creepy and pathetic.

[Daddy Bear]

Where did you read that?

Various cheesy NLP websites I've perused... but it's something I had already learned by being around for 45 years.

[Raiden]

But if a guy doesn't find me particularly attractive and is just flirting for the heck of it, then he get the beep away from me.

 

Highly unlikely, dietrying

[Clarity]

Diggity, if you're going to label something as a "misconception", you have to refute it with facts. You didn't give facts, but rather your personal opinion on the matter.

 

You have to ask yourself, if you're fighting such an overwhelming opinion of PUAs being phony individuals and you believe this to be a misconception, where do you think this general stereotype is coming from? Out of thin air? Stereotypes are generalizations, but in general, they often carry quite a bit of truth.

 

I've seen you often cite intimidation as a factor. I really don't buy that, because what is there to be intimidated about? The "PUAs" I have witnessed personally have not been effective at their art and are often more a source of amusement to others than anything. Even if I saw some that were good at what they do, that would foster admiration, rather than intimidation. I'm not intimidated by my favourite professional athletes or musicians.