IWOKEUP

I just read this post and I am amazed at some of the answers here. Commitment phobics do exist and lead very specific life patterns that amazes, confuses and disgusts most well-adjusted women/men alike. If you are just "not into" someone, dated for a while and realize this relationship isn't going anywhere, well, that's one thing. Chances are, you've spent enough time with one another and know in your heart, they aren't for you. Ok..let's not confuse this in any way, shape or form with commitment phobic types. They are another animal and if you dated, lived with or married one, you will know the difference. Don't kid yourselves with pat little answers "ah, they just weren't into you". That's *&&^ - sorry, but I've experienced them first hand and they aren't normal by any stretch. In fact, they have no idea what they say or do most of the time leaving their partners utterly confused. CP's love to play NBA with your heart and mind at your expense until they are so confused about their own feelings, they make it your fault and take off. They want a relationship with you and then they don't. This is not normal. Don't kid yourself that CP's go onto to get married either - they go through a succession of partners who are all probably normal and very decent but there will always be a "problem" with every one of them. This is a totally different animal from the well-adjusted kind who know what they want and can move forward with consistency when they meet the "right one" for them. The CP will play with your mind, pushing and pulling...constantly indecisive and drive their partners nuts in the process. Miss M is correct...you should try reading her suggested books and get a grip on who and what is real out there. There are tons of people who have a true fear of commitment and it just doesn't extend to relationships either. It's making plans, proving through action, not being afraid of committing on many levels from meeting friends for a coffee to buying furniture and beyond and I am not just talking marriage. The fear of "suffocation" is very present at all times. You're fooling yourselves if you don't think this doesn't really exist. Why do you think there is a forum for this very topic?

A friend just sent me this. I think it rings true: In time In time, you learn that in order to be happy with someone else, you must realize, you dont need him/her. You also notice that the person you think you love and doesnt care about you, is definitely not the man/woman of your life. You learn to love yourself, take care of yourself, and most of all, to love the ones that really love you. The secret is not to go searching for butterflies, but if you take care of your own garden...they will come to you. Then you realize, instead of looking for someone you want....you might be found by someone who has been looking for you.

thanks for the posts! OK..here is where I am confused though. During my stay, he rejected me then lured me with talk of moving and future plans. If he wasn't "into me" would a guy still say those things? I offered to move into a hotel and he pleaded with me not to go. (does this sound normal?) I met his family and he said that was a big deal for him. I am aware committment phobics love to do the push/pull thing. One minute he was affectionate, the next - shutdown. One minute serious, the next avoiding me with diversions. So much conflict! We did have our share of disagreements over a year and a half but always managed to work through them. Oh well.

I need your input please I met a nice guy in a chat room a year and a half ago. I told him I wasn't interested but he pursued me. (He lives on another continent but I thought I was wise to LDR since my last one was also long distance and ended badly). The difference was, this guy seemed completely opposite to my last one and I felt a little more confident. Ok....he was persistent. enthusiastic, incredibly expressive and open and we talked daily on the phone, on webcams, primarily and through some IM's and the odd email. I discussed all the pitfalls of idealizing people from afar...romantisizing someone and to be as realistic and only say what is real. There wasn't one fear that I didn't mention and discuss with him and my very real reticence about getting involved. I was petrified of getting hurt again and I told him all my fears and commitment phobic men. He told me he was seriously viewing me as a long-term partner that would lead to marriage (after we met) of course and this relationship was not a game and shouldn't be taken lightly. Since we had so much in common on so many levels, I decided to trust him after 4 months of constantly testing him to see if he was for real or not. We spoke everyday for a year and a half. We discussed everything under the sun and although he seemed very taken with me, I constantly reiterated the pyschology of LDR's and their pitfalls. He insisted that we would meet but he was changing jobs and it would be expensive and he couldn't take the time to meet. We could see eachother through webcams but of course, being in person is always different. In June,05, I decided to fly over to meet him. He seemed genuinely thrilled to meet me but within hours began to send me mixed messages. He was very shy (360 degrees to the guy I had been talking to for that long) and didn't offer me too much eye contact. Just to confuse things, he would be amourous...then shutdown. He invited friends to join us wherever we went. After a number of days...he rejected affection and tried to make me feel guilty. His messages became incredibly mixed throughout my stay. One minute, I was meeting the whole family (which he said was serious)...the next, he refused hugs claiming I was being pushy and this was turning him off. This back and forthing nearly drove me nuts. At times, he was downright cold, then somewhat apologetic. By the way, that cellphone and text messaging went on and on and on and on. His friends told me he is always on the net or on the phone. When I queried him about this total change of attitude, he tried to make it my problem. I wouldn't have made the effort if I had known this was to take place. I even bit the bullet and asked him if if was a lack of chemistry on his part? He denied that but still felt I was pushing him (asking for affection, expression). I don't see those things as a marriage proposal do you? I eventually asked what he wanted from me? A phone pal? a wake-up call? A serious relationship? I brought up all his words but he didn't want to go there. He didn't answer this directly. Once more, he felt that these things should come from him when he was ready. They never did come but he spoke a lot of future talk (without any specific timelines) regarding the two of us. (HUH?) Since my return, I have only had a few emails from him. I am in a lot of pain to be sure, because I have no real answers to his behaviour. Is he a true commitment phobic who sets up woman only to be scared off by reality or was he just "not that into me" and hurting me by pushing me away? PS.....Yep, I got the message and no, I will not be contacting him again. The question is also.....can the internet set up a beautiful arena for genuine commitment phobics who can have relationships without expending too much of themselves realistically other than paying a phone bill?

I am happy for you and that it worked out for you. Notice that it took the two of you to make it happen though. I agree, getting to know someone from the inside out can be liberating. Here's my problem. I begged him not fantasize me, idealize me, say anything he didn't mean, we discussed everything under the sun and more on the phone and to eachother on webcams to pave the way for what was to come. I am more grounded than an ocean floor. My problem? he proceeded to forget everything we ever talked about when we met. I'm not sure if he "wasn't into me" or patently scared out of his whits when too many friends and family members encouraged him. I have no idea as I never got any real answers from him but a whole lot of mixed messages. I just recommend to others that they take stock in time and action. These things can be dragged out for years. One can be feeding their egos whilst the other can be deceived. Good luck to you both!

Hi, It's been a while since my last posting. My first LDR was an abysmal failure. I swore never to go into another again. As fate would have it, I did meet someone else in a chat room who lived thousands of miles away and I was adamant I wasn't into the pain and effort all over again. I even explained why this was redundant and why LDR's are so iffy. He was persistent, open and communicative and over some considerable time, convinced me he was sincere. He said he was looking or a serious relationship that would end in marriage. He also said I was the closest thing he has ever found in all the qualities he wanted in a woman. Funnily enough, I felt the same. We ended up talking everyday and using a webcam for over a year and a half. I finally had had enough and had the opportunity to meet him and get a vacation. We met and he proceeded to send me mixed messages all week. One minute he was cold or used friends, phone or other things as buffers to avoid intimacy. On the other hand, he introduced me to his family and told me it was a big deal for him to do that. I also noticed that his phone/text messages went off all times of the day and night. His friends informed me he was a shy guy, very serious but was very connected to the net and his phone. No kidding, it went off at 2:00 a.m. The long and short of this is, some people (not all) use the internet, phones as a fantasy without commitment to idealize people without taking the other's feelings into account. Projecting, expressing and bonding on the phone is great, but without true plans and slow but progressive action-based discussion after the first three months will scream RUN! Trust me on this. Words are wonderful but can also be cheap. Using work, life or outside problems as an excuse not to fully commit and meet you can spell disaster. If someone wants to be with you? meet you? spend time with you? prove that they are who they are and are careful and realistic about your relationship will show you. Anyone can basically say anything to feed one's ego. We all want to believe we are cherished etc. but the cost for some long distance relationship/internet addicts is the price of a phone call....nothing more. I am aware that some relationships can and do work out but be warned, if one partner is doing all the phoning and the other calls when it suits them or finds excuses not to meet after they have won you, it's time to pack your bags and move on. I wish I did. Would have saved me a lot of grief. PS....I've been back three weeks and he didn't call me once. Yeah, that's love.

thanks all, I am reading all your replies and yes, I do agree to a certain point. The thing I am contemplating, (and I can see I am older than all of you in age) is that does one become shallow if one is relying on receiving material things or not? He is consistent is just about every other way. He appears to be very serious about me and if this works out, he could very well be my future. I've told him this is something I need but his work schedule (in another country only allows one morning for errands etc. and he tends to sleep in instead of running to the post office). I don't think a woman should have to ask for something ie. a postcard, momento etc. I have received poems, beautifully worded emails from the heart and daily phone calls. Is there a possibility that he may just not be the kind of man who does these kind of things? or he just lazy? or even worse, doesn't think I am worth the effort. I am very confused.

After a rocky romance last year, I met someone else online who I have been communicating with for over 10 months now. Here's the thing, he lives pretty far and we do plan to meet and we have about 90% in common on just about everything except this one thing which is driving me nuts. I have sent him little gifts which he loved but he has yet to send me anything. I mean I have absolutely nothing except daily calls, emails, ecards and emailed pics and webcam. He says he will and I tell him the monetary value is of no interest to me but I want something that he has had touched etc. and each time he promises to send me something but hasn't!!!!! It was his Birthday recently and I sent him a little something with a card which he loved. (Hint, hint hint!!!!!) He forgot my Birthday back in June, no card, no call, but apologies after the fact and said he will make it up when we meet. To me, when a man says what he does, it translates to he is a man of his word. Is this a guy thing? Should I be mistrusting? Am I overreacting? What's your take?

Hi Mattyboy, First of all we haven't met yet!!!! He lives quite far from me but we talk daily on the phone. We are both saving towards a big trip together. He does have my address!! Home and business! Do you think he may be possibly mean? I mean, if he has days off and can't even think about purchasing a card and stamp...... Do I sound like a whiner here? or do I have a legitimate point? Words like "I love You" and so on are wonderful, great but I've always thought action speaks louder than words.

Hi, I would love anyone's input. My last b/f whom I met online and we eventually met and had a 2 year relationship absolutely loathed sending cards, gifts (I don't care about the value) and he would eventually send them after the special day. He could see how hurt I was which sucked because they lost their significance and I had to reveal how disappointed I was. I am a sentimental person and yes, cards and gifts mean a lot to me. OK....skip to my new b/f...been chatting online for 6 mos now (and we plan to meet) and I have hinted that I would love to receive anything from him...card, even words on paper, picture, anything to have that is tangible. To me, this is a form of action that not only tells me his words are meaningful but he is willing to show me that he cares. I have sent three different goodie bags with cards and although I don't count the cost, it really was my pleasure to do so, I have yet to receive anything from him? My birthday is next week. If I don't receive anything, would you see that as a sign? could he be cheap? or should I chill and have to accept that some people don't care for gift or card-giving? How would you react?? Just double-checking? Looking forward to your replies!!! Thanks!

Hi, Cutting a long story short, despite my fears, I got involved in a long-distant relationship again with a guy who lives pretty far from me - 7 hours time difference! He insists we will meet and so far, he appears genuine and real. It has been 4 mos now and he is in school studying for a new career. I know he has to rise early in the morning then comes home, studies, eats and falls asleep. OK....here is my predicament.....over the past 2 weeks, his phone calls became less and less. When I called, he apologized but told me he was dead tired or he would call back. He also stated he loves me but can't keep his eyes open. Three times this week he said he would call back and didn't. I asked if he was having a change of feeling towards me and this got him very angry and hurt. It appears he couldn't believe I would think that of him but, heh, if a man doesn't call in a week, doesn't that say something?? Am I supposed to anticipate and assume things in his life I know nothing of? Do some people expect LD partners to assume? presume? and completely trust one another in only 4 mos? Am I being pushy? Am I justified? Should I gently assert my position? Should I avoid him if he does call? and teach him a lesson? Should I just drop it altogether? I am curious to know how women answer this question to men? I don't want to overreact but I also feel an apology and and an answer is due me? What do you think? Awaiting your sage advice?

Thank you all for your incredible input and insight! I guess, at the end of the day, when we are left without answers, closure and look back at the investment that we put into our relationships, there is a strong feeling of betrayal, outrage and deep sadness. We become so incredulous that this could happen and all the memories that we have created and gone through. On the flip side, there is also a matter of self-esteem, dignity and self-worth. If someone doesn't find our worth appealing, that is their choice but I guess we mustn't allow them to rob of us of all our goodness and strengths. For me, to love is to wear your heart on your sleeve...to be vulnerable and giving. If someone else can't or won't go there, that is their choice. Does that make me stupid? hmmm.....I am of two minds on this. On the one hand, to love freely makes you human, giving , alive. Others can argue that love has to be earned up front before you give anything for self-protection. What is your opinion?

Thank you everyone for your insightful and supportive remarks. I almost feel ashamed to even post to strangers...my friends and family have had enough of watching me cry. Do you think this is a matter of regaining one's pride and dignity in the face of rejection? It's funny how love can make one put up with just about everything. I was so shut down for years.....dating but not feeling....this time - I fell in love again. Maybe when one has numerous relationships and tolerates the demise...it get's easier? I know I am not alone....songs have been written about it. At the risk of sounding like a cornball, there is a song Michael McDonald once recorded and I am trying to emulate it. They lyrics are: I Can Let Go Now It was so right It was so wrong Almost at the same time The pain and ache A heart can take No one really knows But when the memories cling and take you there Till you no longer care You can let go now It's not right for me To cling to you Somehow I just needed time From what was to be It's not like me To hold somebody down But I was tossed high by love Almost never came down Only to land Where no love is found And I'm no longer bound I can let go now Thanks for listening!

I am almost embarrased to post this. It's been 4 months since my ex b/f (commitment phobic) dumped me and walked off without a second glance after 2 years of what I thought was real love. He never even contacted to see how I am? nothing. I can't stop crying because the pain gets unbearable at times. I know he wasn't "man" enough for me at the end but that doesn't stop me missing him. Am I being a "victim" here? Why do I miss someone who treated me so despicably and without feeling and explanation? I think it's been too long to get any kind of closure from him. How does one stop loving someone? Do you concentrate on the negatives? Do you get angry? Do you try to avoid thinking about that person? I am petrified that I have lost trust and feel a bit duped into believing that there was a future and made myself completely vulnerable which pains me even more. How long is too long to grieve? I miss what was but certainly not the way it ended and how cruel he was at the end. Any suggestions?

At least you can see the writing on the wall....... If you want to avoid having a nervous breakdown..it's only been 3 mos so your grief will probably be short and sweet. No, you can't fix someone else's fatal flaws!! That's not your job! She will only end up resenting you and feel more inferior and probably hurt you even more in the process. She has to get to that point (if ever) on her own and be miserable enough to want to help herself. The push/pull thing will make you crazy and interrupt your life, your self-esteem and make you feel responsibile for someone else's happiness. You are not responsible! This is not your problem. She won't change because you ask her to. Look after yourself first. Seek out someone who has her act together and wants to be your partner and wants the same things you want. It's terribly sad to see someone you love/like go through this but......this is not your project to take on.

Thanks Mike! I appreciate your kind words. I think they say"Love is Blind". The rational mind shouts logic and can evaluate situations evenly and rationaly. When you fall in love, your heart takes over and sometimes the two are in conflict. The past and the present aren't one in the same. Neither is the man for that fact. Thanks again!

Right Princess! You are right! I was not actively pursuing his comings and goings. That would be in my books..stalking. I happened upon his ad and was flabbergasted to see that I have been lied to for 2 years and that has taken my breath away. I mean all those words of hope just to see a manipulator who seems to repeat the same old patterns. One of the reasons I joined this site was to relate to others who may possibly be going through the same thing. My friends won't even allow me to mention his name anymore. I do feel very much alone in my grief. I appreciate and understand all that you suggested and yes, I pray when that time comes. It looks like my grief period is not quite over yet and everyone wants me back to normal yesterday. I am trying very hard to forget but after seeing that ad I feel very used, gullible and vulnerable right now. Please bear with me? Thanks.

Everything you are feeling is quite normal. At first, you are numb, then incredibly sad, then angry then in a state of sorrow. These stages may be played in reverse but if you get stuck in one stage for too long, then it's a problem. You are grieving for the hope of what could have been. You are obviously not ready to take on a new relationship and anyone who you started up with now would only be a rebound fix for a short time. You need to get back to you 100%. Time for some self-examination too. Where you erred.....where he erred and most importantly, making yourself a priority in everyway! Only when you are whole and can accept yourself as a single person, should you move on to a new relationship because you will be in that place of positive energy and better judgement. It is good to talk things out. Even keep a journal or join a group or talk to close friends. I'm doing that now and it really helps. I've been told it does get better but you have to let your time of grief play itself out.

I just saw another ad from him on another dating website and this time it said he was willing to relocate anywhere! HUH??? OK......sometimes it's better to see your ex for who they really are instead of your imagined version which may not be one in the same! I just feel sorry for the next lady who will be hoodwinked by this loser!

Hi Darla, The books I read were invaluable and I am desperate to buy them now as I felt the urgent need to highlight just about every page and mine were from the library. Written by the same two authors...Steven Carter and Julia Sokol...."Men Who Can'tLove" and "He's Scared, She's Scared" will literally walk you through your relationship with a CP whether it was one date, a few months, a few years, marriage and long-term relationships. What is so sad, painful and frustrating, is that the CP is aware that they are hurting you but can't or won't change. What's worst? all that wonderful intimacy and sharing in the beginning is totally forgotten by the CP and replaced by fear, ambivalence, cruel words ..almost like a child lashing out to escape. They feel the concept of marriage or real commitment to you might suffocate them or put them in a box that they will never escape from. Others think their ideal mate ie. my Prince Charming, My ideal woman, My dream date, My calendar girl, My Knight in Shining Armour (who, by the way, never ever have bed head, cough, have a broken nail or a any hobbies except to love and worship you in all their perfection" really do exist and are waiting just for them. Long wait there! Even when these CP's meet incredible potential partners..there will always be some problem that will stop them from getting really involved. This one foot in, one foot out gives them a clean exit. They often go from one relationship to the next without any real explanation or closure because they are so good at it! Some feel guilty...others know they have a problem and the key words that I have found through my own experiene is and then some more WORDS and then, just to keep you hanging and their egos intact some more WORDS. Action, the planning (remember that word because it crops up big time with CP's) maybe verbalized or not but wait till the day comes and you realize you are living and loving a potential.....hope......could be/would be. if only because, in reality.....they don't want you permanently at all. Some just dissappear in the dead of night....others, chronically for years like a bad broken record until you lose your mind, your precious time and end up angry or in a state of no self-esteem, self-blame and guilt. It's not your fault! Remember that. You can't fix them. They are not your responsibility. Why do we love these people? Because we are vulnerable and want to help them. We think because we have so much to give, offer, to love, he/she will "get it and us" and wake up. No cigar and wishful thinking. It can take literally years of therapy to get back to that sense of trusting and moving forward with the majority of CP's. Beause we project too much and don't stop to see what is really going on, we open our hearts to a great deal of pain, frustration and sadness. These toxic people should be stamped on their foreheads for any future innocents. Love is blind. I still love but I can tell you, I don't like, trust, believe, hope, confide or waitfor my ex B/F anymore. He was just a life lesson I hope to never repeat. You can't make someone want to be with you and make plans if they don't or can't. Their phobia is bigger than you, your relationship, what you mean to them or ever will be.

If you can come on your own or with her, you are perfectly fine and this is very normal. If you can't ejaculate. you may want to see your GP just ot have things checked out. You are probably nervous about pleasing her and stressing yourself out unnecessarily. Try not to think about "performing". Just relax and let things happen....don't focus on your erection and worry about it because you will make it worse. Have fun.

Thanks for the suggestions but I think you misunderstood. As the female, I did everything humanly possible to bring about the erection......he put on the condom and seconds later pufff....his lost his erection. I also noticed that none of the rims stayed put at the bottom of his shaft. Surely, a guy who is not accustomed to using one could practice with one alone no? I just want to know if anyone thinks this could have been mental because physically otherwise...he was fine and dandy in all other areas.

My ex/b/f had a problem - one that I have never encountered before. He was perfectly fine sexually from beginning to end - is able to orgasm but....everytime he put on a condom....seconds later he would lose it. This happened so many times he got put off sex despite my understanding. He said that his exes were all on the pill but I figure all men know how to use condoms right? I bought at least 5 different sizes and it happened time and time again. Is this a mental thing? fear maybe? He's in his 40's. Can anyone please explain this? He said it wasn't me..

Help, She is one very lucky lady to have such an understanding man in her life. Unfortunately, according the statistics out there.....you wil be waiting a very very very long time for a solid commitment. All the doing, saying, love, assurance, encouragement, support in the world will only make you exhausted and emotionally spent. This has to come from the CP through serious counselling. Telling someone who is a phobic that their fears are irrational is a given to the phobic. That doesn't mean they will change unless they are willing to face their demons head-on. Good luck to you both and I truly hope she turns a corner. A word of warning.....please be self-protective just in case and don't keep hoping. How do I know? We've all been there and it's a published fact.

Well, I saw his ad on the net looking for a long-term relationship and that did it for me. I wrote a terse, short email that was well-worded without sour grapes but to let him know I didn't think much of his treatment of me. Two days later, I got an email that was penned by a boy with little ownership of his behaviour and a formal signage. It actually helped me to look a this man/boy and realize what I had escaped. I really didn't think I would contact him but I am really glad I did.