EyeOfTheTiger1

Hello everyone, I have a story to tell and it is one of the hardest things that have happened to me in my almost 26 years of life and I need some guidance and some direction and both women and men can please feel free tp offe your opinions and advice. In October of last year, I was searching for an old friend on ICQ and added this person to my MSN list and it turned out that it wasn't who I thought it was. It turned out to be a woman my age (25 at the time), who lived in Kansas City (I live in Montreal, Canada) and who was originally from my home city of Montreal. We talked quite a bit over MSN and I found out that she was engaged to a man and the wedding date was going to be the following June. The more we talked, the more she revealed to me just how unhappy she was with her life over there and her relationship. She was just about to loose her job, as a Youth Director of a non-profit organization and was forced to come back to Canada, because of Visa issues. It was supposed to be of a temporary nature. I don't know how else to put it, but we fell for each other and she found solice, safety and comfort in my words and I found someone who cared about me and the chemistry was through the roof, or so I believed and at times even now, still do. She was an overly confident and overly independent woman, who usually got her way and I realized just how coercive she could be. there were many topics that were taboo to talk about, unless she herself brought them up. I couldn't ever really strogly suggest things to her, or openly tell her how something she was doing or saying, was potentially hurting or bothering me. Her reactions from the get go, were of a very defensive nature and she would either very harshly and sternly and very abruptly put an end to the conversation, by means of yelling, screaming, and plain out intimidation and bullying. It was very clear to me that since day one, it was her way, or the highway. I was blind to this behavior of hers, only focusing on the good and at the same time, opening my own heart up to her, in hopes that she would cradle all of my deep rooted fears and insecurities and those being, feelings of mistrust, neglect, disappointment and abandonment. I came from an abusive childhood, where I constantly saw abuse first hand, both on the verbal and physical side and it definitely scarred me pretty bad. She knew, but overtime her reactions to my fears and insecurities and the major tow being, was that she was to open and flirtatious with other men and that she was going to leave me for someone else. This fear was never really tamed or calmed down, because of her hostile and aggressive reaction to my fears and doubts. Instead of reaching out and cradling me and washing away my fears, she got mad at me and reprimended me by attempting to threaten to take away her love, by use of withdrawing physically away and even so far as becoming very sarcastic and demeaning and cruel and hurtful and this made me feel that she was cold and heartless and wouldn't reach out for me and I became scared to open my true feelings to her over time, in fear of her reactions. Over the months, I became weaker with her and would actually cry and get scared of her and she would really do nothing to hold me, or say she is sorry for reacting the way that she is and actually stopping in the process. I wanted her to be more soft spoken with me. I wanted her to be kinder and more sensitive to me and my fears, knowing what I had been through and seen as a child, but all along, I was becoming more and more of a little boy in her presense and she became more and more like a dictator with me. I don't know if I fed into her own fears and insecurities and drew something out of her, by constantly telling, or more so showing her that I do not trust her, or believe her and constantly telling her that she is a cold individual and a mean person, or if she in fact, was and is all of this and just bullied me around to keep me in lign and control me. Things got much worse over time. I started to believe that she had two very distinct personalities, where one was a sweet and loving woman, who was cute and sensitive and compassionate and loving and affectionatea and the other side being, dry, abrupt, cruel, malicious, spiteful, aggressive, hostile, scarcastic, demeaning and overly opinionated and *beep* and most importantly self-absorbed. It was a battle for me, because whenever I would break down and cry, she would become that tough *beep*, who wouldn't take any *beep*, but as sson as I got tougher with her, she would be soft and soothing and more in a sense, compliant. My nature is that of being soft spoken and extremely sensitive and caring and at times needy and I cannot be tough and so on and so fort for too long, without being true to myself. She became more daring with me and started to push me around when I started falling apart and begging for her to stop being mean and caring with me and she would actually physically push me and order me to "GET AWAY FROM HER" and would constantly come to my appartment and take away everything she ever got me and would walk out of my appartment, to leave me lying there, crying and dying and feeling so abandoned, hurt and alone. Bringing out or re-enacting my all-time fear. This all culmiated one afternoon, where she had told me that an old friend of hers (a guy), was coming into town on a business trip and asked me if I'd like to go with her to the airport to pick him up. I could not understand that for the life of me, why someone you never mentioned to me before, is worthy of getting the royal treatment from my girlfriend and her not even asking me if I would feel comfortable with the idea or not. I was devastated and she did what she wanted to do. She never asked me what I thought. She never said she was sorry. She never admitted to being wrong, at fault, or simply taking responsibilty for hurting me, in a sensitive and personable fashion. So, I asked her out right if she was seeing another guy and then she hit me in the face and I fell to the floor, out of shear disbelief and horror and she immediately blamed me and said that I hit her too, by asking her that question and she said that I brough out the worst in her and then she called the cops on herself and said that she had assualted her boyfriend and after that, things changed between the two of us. This was a little over two months ago and she promised and begged me to give her another chance and that she was going to go for help and that she is deeply disturbed and for me to give her the chance to stand by her, through this difficult time. I was forced to keep my distance from her and I stopped seeing her everyday and stopped going to her house and seeing her friends and family. I restricted it to email and maybe once a week in person. She acted very sweet and loving and made an effort of 100%, but I was not so easily convinced and I was scarred and still very hurt and made things hard on her, like she had done to me. Throughout the last couple of months, she has not acted in the same way, as she used to, but at times can become cold and hurtful and not reach out, but she now feels she is doing this, because she sees that I am not giving her the chance to change and I am asking too much from her and nothing she seems to do is over ever will be good enough. I want to let go and believe her and trust and I do believe in my heart that she wants the same and wants to be happy and we are cute together, when we smile and are connected, but she feels that I want her to be domeone she is not and that I am asking too much of her and she can't, or is not willing to give up that much of herself as a sacrifice for us and our love, because she will loose herself entirely in the process and I do understand. She now wants reassurance and encouragement and for me to tell her that I am proud of her, for all of the progress that she has made, but I need to know that she is serious in changing and will not hurt me any longer. What do I do, because I do love her and I am so hurt inside. Please offer me some type of feedback, or advice. Thank you, Dan

Hi again, So, I've been on this forum for a month and a half. All I can say, is that it gets so much easier. It really does. I am so much calmer these days. I have a new found confidence in myself. What do I attribute it to? Firstly, time is what was an essential remedy for my hurt and anguish. I was a very depressed man 2+ months ago. I followed up on her for 5 weeks, but am proud to say, that it has now been officially almost 5 weeks since I've made any attempt at contacting her and nor do I feel the urgency, or need to go about doing it. I've begun dating again and it feels damn good to have women interested in me again. They tell me that I am a special man and am so sure of myself and so confident. If they only knew how I was a month and a half to 2 months ago. Wow! I've come a long way and I hope this is reassurance for all of you that feel there is no hope without your ex. This is the truth of the matter, you never really forget about them. You start by distracting yourself at all costs and then you begin to realize that you're worth it and the guilt tends to dissipate and you eventually end up moving on and start dating again and then you begin to smile and laugh again and you are once agin in control of you life at this point in time. This is where I currently find myself. I happier, healthier and calmer. I have a better perspective on life and realize what I will tolerate and what I will not. Both from others and from myself. I still think of her sometimes, but in regards to making contact, that won't be happening for a while. I don't think I want to right now. I'm having too much fuun dating right now. eventually, our paths may cross again, but she'll be faced with a Dan that will blow her away and I'm proud of everything I've accomplished. It wasn't easy, but nothing in life that is worthwhile, is easy. I hope that I have been of some support for all you who are just beginning in the recovery stages. I was there my friends and it was hell. I didn'r leave this appt. for weeks and I enjoyed the dark and avoided people and now I have a new found appreciation for life and it's getting better each and every day and I thank myself for this and in a way, I thank her for waking me. Things in life happen for a reason and we can't always question theb motives of others. We can only control our own actions. Just focus in on self-improvement my friends. You'll never fail if you do this. Peace and love (and no, I am not a hippie) EyeOfTheTiger#1 Dan

Hello everybody, What exactly is a reasonable time frame to wait before re-initiating contact? That's a great question. I do agree that immediate attempts should be made, but if they fall on deaf ears, retreating is necessary at that point. Never force yourself on anyone, when they specifically request for time and space away from you. Personally, I chased after my ex-girlfriend for 5 weeks. Not everyday, but it was an ongoing attempt and it was unsuccessful. When someone makes up their mind for good, it is quite impossible and frustrating as well to try and convince them of something they do no longer want to be convinced of. This is why, it is essential that you relinquish and go far away from this very important and special person, who no longer would like to be a part of your life at that point in time. The key element to it all in mho, is "point in time". People tend to forgive and forget over time, but more likely forget and time is very much needed and required to accomplish this task. Make yourself invisible and let your partner move on and live their life without you. Cold harsh reality, right? It is, but I firmly believe that it is the only real chance any of us have. Personally, for the last 4 weeks, I have made absolutely no attempts at contact and it honestly does get a lot easier. You redeem your own pride and self-respect and inevitably, you will have that same effect on your lost love, without even trying. It's a win win situation. I've actually started dating again and find myself able to laugh and have fun with other women, other than my ex. It's refreshing and it gives you a whole new perspective on everything. Confidence comes pouring back into your veins and a feeling of being in control of yourself and your life is very much present at this stage. Personally, I still think of my ex, but I think of her in a different way now. I am no longer so fixated on the idea of needed her in my life to fill a void of loneliness and emptiness and sadness. I've filled that void on my own and am much stronger and happier today, then I've ever been. Do I still think of calling her? Yes, I do. Am I going to? Probably not for a long time to come. She will be going away to Peru over Christmas/New Years. It could be for a month, 4 months, 6 months, or for good. This thought used to terrify me. I didn't want to loose her. What terrifies me more today, is the thought of loosing me and loosing control again. I've grown and I'm proud of this accomplishment. I'm someone to be chased after and I have so much to offer. I forgot that somewhere along the way. If I do call her in a month or so, it would be for the sole purpose to say hi and wish her a good trip and that's it. Kind of like a wake up call. You see, no one really ever forgets their past love, they just block the thought out of their head, until the day they are reminded, either on their own listening to a song and remembering, or having regrets and wondering and that inevitable curiosity will drive them to make contact. I haven't yet decided what I will do. Any suggestions would be much appreciated guys. Do I wait that 4-6 month rule, or do I make one last attempt in a month, which will mark the month post break-up date? Whatever happens, I know that I am not so much in a hurry anymore. I am not so restless anymore. I am more relaxed and am enjoying life a little more every day. Peace, EyeOfTheTiger#1 Dan

Hi Holly, Thanks for your input of the day. I was just reminded that I had sent you a message a little while ago. It was actually a reply to one of your replies. I was wondering if you ever received it. You gave me some great advice and I wanted to follow up on your reply. It was concerning the closure I felt I needed and as to how and when I should go about accomplishing this difficult task. If you no longer have my message, I'll be more than glad to send it to you again. Thanks Holly1972, EyeOfTheTiger#1 Dan

Hi, I've been on this forum for about a month now and I've read just about every post on here and have done my fair share of contributing my own personal experiences and view points. Essentially, I am responding to your last post, and more specifically to a statement who had mad. You had said that love dies for starvation. That's an intruiging thought, but what I would like to know where the phrase "absense makes the heart grow fonder" comes into effect in your opinion. I've also heard "out of sight, out of mind". Which of the two are usually more prominent. I'm assuming it is al relative on the circumstances, in relation to who left who. It's almost always inevitable that the one who experinces the loss, is almost certainly the one who does the chasing and the majority of the missing. The other individual has claimed complete and utter control, because they had the courage to walk away and that in itself lays the groundwork for an earlier acceptance of the situation. Regret will come into play if the partner does not chase. A sense of wonder and curiosity will arise and it may provoke an attempt at contact. I have not yet received this pro-active contact from my ex. It's been eight weeks and for the first 5 weeks I had not stopped trying to win her back, but not realising that I was pushing her further away by not respectiing her wishes for space and for me having pride and being strong, secure and independent of her. It's been 3 weeks now and only now do I feel prouder than ever before. I have begun taking the right path for true self-improvement and growth. She would not recocgize the Dan of today. I'm liking myself more and more and I realize now, that I am someone special and am a great catch and that she is truly missing out on someone good. As to how I can demonstrate this to her, I have no idea. She is out of my life right now and she has cut out all contact, because of my persistent nature, but she will be going away over Christmas/New Year and maybe even for good. I would dearly like to see her one more time before she leaves, but in doing that, do I regress back to the former Dan and loose my self-respect by initiating contact, or do I follow my heart just one more time and know that I have truly changed for good and for me this time around? EyeOfTheTiger#1 Dan

Hi Holly, Thank you for sharing your personal experience with me. It was extremely helpful to hear the perspective of possible my ex. Our 2 situations are linked to a certain extent. Your breakup was based mostly on financial stress, where as my own, was based upon my insecurity within the relationship. I thnk that her breaking up with me was the hardest thing for her to have to do and it was the last thing that she wanted to do, but I honestly gave her no choice in the matter. I was hurting her by being so doubtful and in a sense, untrustworthy of her love and devotion for me. I don't blame her. She was very supportive and gave me ample ooportunities to toughen up, but these pleads fell on deaf ears. Inevitably, she is out of my life right now and I would not be surprised if she is feeling a long the lines of how you are feeling. To say that I am not looking for a rekindling of the flame we once had together, would be a damn lie. I love that woman and miss her terribly. I wonder about her all the time and I still live my life, but something has to give. I don't want to sound redundant here, I just feel the need to reiterate these points, which I've repeated over and over again to myself in the last 7 weeks. I wouldn't say that I have nothing left to loose by doing what you suggested I do. Respect is something I claimed to redeem by leaving her alone, but I now have the potential insight into how she must be feeling. I'm sure a sense of relief was ever present, upon my finally leaving her alone and respecting her wishes for space. HOwever, with time, comes curiosity and "if" she is still single and has reaped the benefits of living her life for herself and enjoying her friends, family and freedom and then at the end of the day, when there is something missing inside of her, she can't help but be drawn back to the thoughts of me and us and what we had and how she ultimately deserted me, even though she may still have loved me upon doing so. I am not sure if I should wait it out a couple of more months and prove to myself that I am determined and proud enough not to go crawling back to her. Remember Holly, she lost her respect for me, for a reason and I don't want to give her more of a reason to want to stay away. I have never been dealt with such an intricate and complicated dilemma as this. I am torn and still confused as time passes by. Even more so now, then before. I just wonder waht's in her mind and what she's going through. Holly, you have regrets now and you feel a sense of guilt for your actions, because you are worried about him. I can't help but feel that behind her wall, she must be feeling the same thing. I can't let her leave the Country over Christmas/New Year, without reaching out and seeing for myself what time has done and wounds it has healed. Do I surprise her and visit her at her work before she leaves (her birthday is on Dec.21), or do I write again, or have a friend or family member write her on my behalf? Do I call, even though she made it clear a month ago that she did not want me to do such? How, when and what Holly? You are my insight right now, because you are walking more or less in her shoes and I more or less in your ex's. If I would have left her, or demanded my space and if he would have doone this with you, it would be them on this chat, not us. Your reply would be greatly appreciated once again. I write a lot, because I am a very passionate man. Thanks Holly. EyeOfTheTiger#1 Danimal

Wow Holly, I don't know what to say? You had some very kind words for me. Thank you. I appreciate it. To respond to your response, I have indeed made several attempts. To give you a briefing, she initially just wanted some time to breathe, and hence, have that much needed space from me, at the time. That was seven weeks ago. I was very much in love with her and I was torn, because on the one hand, I wanted to respect her wishes for space, yet, on the hand, I missed and didn't want to lose her, so I made every attempt to win her back again. Before, these attempts were always successful. She realized that she loved me too and missed me and was always willing to give it another shot. However, this last time, she was not willing to bend anymore, or compromise. It was her way and that was the only way. I went to her work the next day and I had tears in my eyes and I told her that I loved her and am now fully aware of the mistakes I had made, however, she told me that she had heard this before and it will not change, so she has to protect herself this time and block me out of her life. I left her work in despair and attempted to call her several times the following day and everytime she told me that she needed to relax and be left alone and will contact me when she is ready. I continued to email her and and write evrything that I felt. In the beginning, she would respond by telling me that she will contact me when she is ready and she knows that we will have that day to talk, but she wants to be sure that when that day comes, I will not beg her to stay and plead for love. She wants strength and indepence and confidence and security in her man and honestly, all that I had dispplayed, was in fact, just the opposite of that. I would wait a week and emil her gain and she would respond that she is not ready yet and to respect her decision. Yet another week passed by and she responded by telling me to just forget it and forget that she exists, because she is in the process of forgetting me. At this point my mother got ill and I called her to let her know. Her mother answered and told me that she doesn't want to speak to me. I was hurt and furious, I emailed her and told her that my mother was ill and she didn't have the decency to even get back to me. She finally responded by telling me that my mother is in her prayers, but she wants nothing to do with me. A week and a half passed by and I actuallu bumped into her and her sister and she pretty much was cold and numb and had supressed, or hidden those feelings and had to run away. I wrote to her the next day, telling her that I am so surprised by her reaction and I need some closure and to please give me that much, because I know I deserve it. No reply, nothing. At this point I waited a few days and my friend wrote her a short letter telling her what I needed, because, she had the nerve to block me from MSN. This was 2 weeks ago exactly and I have yet to get a response from her. She was going to move to South America (where she is born) in January originally, but because of me, she was only going to visit for a month. Now, I know she is leaving in 2 months, and I don't know if it's for good, or not, but I just can't move on like this. She wanted me to respect her, but she never respected me the way she threw me out like yesterdays newspaper and never looked back. It's cold, heartless, and just plain wrong and I am here today, 7 weeks later, a much stronger man, with more confidence than I've ever had and more insight into myself than ever before and I need to let her know this. I just do. She labeled me and ran away and made the assunption that I would never change, but how wrong she was. I am not going to ask her to give me another chance as a girlfriend, but I would like her to give me a chance as a human being, who deserves one. What do you think Holly? How, when and what do I have to do, to make this finally happen? EyeOfTheTiger#1 Dan

Hi Cute, Short and Sassy 19 , Your advice is great and I do appreciate it and respect it, for all it is worth. Despite what my ex thinks of my actions towards her at the end, by not respecting her wishes for space, I am a man who is proud. I demonstrated to her that I was weak and needy and could not live without her, and this scared her away. Boy, did she run fast and and far, as if the day before, when she was declaring her infinite feelings for me, no longer had any bearing anymore on her. Her pride stepped in the way and she put her foot down for the last time and all I wanted was ato talk to her, but she believed that all I was capable of doing was crying. She wanted a strong man, not a weak one. Well, that was 7 weeks ago tomorrow and I honestly have come along way,but in order to continue with this journey of mine (with or without her), I need closure and need for her to hear what I have to say. I can not walk away knowing that I was labeled and she told me that if she were to come back to me and give me yet another chance, I would never change. I need her to see me, how I have become without her in my life. I have not stopped living, without her, I just can't understand how I have this reaction from her now, when it was 180 degrees the opposite before. Why the hell can't she face me? What is she so scared of? People who run away like that, usually do not deal with the issues. They just dismiss them and pretend that they don't exist and that includes the person who is left standing there. How could you not feel bad after a while and think of the person you literally deserted and not in the least bit miss him. I do miss her still today, but having this closure is something that has to be done eventually. She even said so herself. When and how will that day come? EyeOfTheTiger#1 Dan

I wish it were that easy. My girlfriend wanted to just be friends and then as soon as we tried that, we became more again. It happened a second time and we became more than just frineds again. the third time she foud me to be somwhat dependent on her and she got scared and wanted some space from me. Like you, I went to her and told her how much she means to me and she told me to give her space, but like you, I missed her and loved her and had to constantly let her know. She stopped all contact with me at this point. She thought that I was too weak and needy, even though she still loved me. She was torn and my chasing her, chased her right out the door and out of my life. It was heart breaking. She can't even face me. Unlike you, I would love to be just her friend, but what I am willing to settle for, is one final conversation, which she promised me we would eventually have. It's been almost 7 weeks and I still miss her and have had no closure. How do I make her comfortable with me to talk to me like a human being and not like some worthless thing that doesn't deserve to be spoken to or even acknowledged. Time is ticking and it does heal wounds. I'm sure she would be more adept to listening to me now, more than before. I am stronger and more secure of myself and that was the whole problem to start out with. I was too weak and clingy and now I am not, but she no longer gave me that second and third chance to prove it to her. She won't even give me a string to hold onto anymore. I am determined as you are. I have a tattoo which is a symbol for determination and I would love to have the opportunity to talk things over with her, even one last time. She's going away over Christmas and I'd like to speak to her before she goes, so I can set my mind free. What to do> What to do? It's been so long and I can't be as threatening to her as I was before. This is a woman who told me the exact same things your boyfriend told you and gave me those chances as well because she loved me and now I'm in the dark and I am trying so hard to find a way to break down that wall. Which I unfortunately reinforced with time, but time has past. A significant amout in fact. Can I try again? Could it hurt any? I don't give up, like you said. EyeOfTheTiger#1 Dan

I just wanted to give a follow up on since my last posting of this email. I've read all over this site, that it gets easier with time. If all of us would have broken up with our ex's first, none of us would be on this site. Our ex's would. Breaking up with the person you "love", is the ultimate way to gain upper hand, but at this point, it spirals out of control, because normally, the person being dumped changes and becomes intensely weak and desperate and does whatever it takes to get their loved one back and this is exactly what they don't want us to do. It's not appealing. We didn't chase in the beginning of the relationship, so why start at the end of it? Where I'm going with this is, it's all just a game of the mind. I've read so often on this forum that we should not chase our loved ones after they want their space, because we inevitably push them further away. Isn't it always ironic that we are given ample chances during the relationship to change and our partner is always forgiving and giving us another chance to prove ourselves and so we realize that we can ultimately get away with our behavior and not really have to change, even though our partner really wants and desperately needs us to. This is a cycle that finally spirals out of control until our partner is left without any more reserves and decides to quit, before we completely destroy them. They bail, but at this point, they have it in their minds to go far away, because having to deal with us right then and there, is too difficult on them. It would lead them into giving in again, because they ultimately still love us and so they run away and sadly don't look back. We are left standing there, finally aware of what we were doing wrong, but no longer having that chance to redeem ourselves. Where do we go and what do we do, because we still love them. We go away and that is the solution. We go away until they remember us on their own, without us having to remind them. It's a natural tendency which we've all done in the past. How many times have you guy's called up an ex to see what they are up to. It's usually a tendency that flashes in and out of our thoughts for quite some time and normally, in the beginning, we dismiss it, but eventually we give in at that one moment. We catch them offguard and our voice brings back all of those feelings they trued "so hard" to forget. It's like hearing your mother's voive on the phone. It's almost comforting. They normally don't call us for quite sometime. It may take 2 years, but if we are strong enough to hold it out, those 2 years would be definitely worth it? I still love my woman, who is convincing herself that I no longer exist. She's great at putting up that wall when she gets hurt. She was very in love with me at one point and would have married me and had children, but people fall out of love quickly if you can't respect and understand them. It can be redeemed by leaving them the hell alone and that's what I am still trying to do, but it is so dam hard and my birthday is in two days and she knows. I know she knows. They are good actors and actresses. They even fool themselves that we meant nothing to them at all. EyeOfTheTiger#1

Mr. Godspeed, I was wonering if I could get your feedback on my response to your post. When used in a realtionship, this a very effective method to implicate to get some desired results, but what about after the person leaves you, because you gave them no space and they got tired of that, or of you and then you don´t give them that space even after the break·up, after they have specifically requested it. This tells them that you obviously don´t respect them or their wishes, but once you do really do step back and respect that space and make no contact whatsoever, what will be happening in the mind of your ex·partner. Will they miss you stop chasing and at what point will they feel the need to reestablish contact to see how you are doing. It is all about curiosity and the not knowing aspect that will drive anybody after a given period of time to pick up the phone and get in touch with the person they convinced themselves that they would never call again. We have all been guilty of this. We always at one point in time have called an ex. We think back to the good times, because those bad memories which held us back from calling seem to diminish with time and some love never dies, even though some people convince themselves otherwise, because it is easier for them to walk away from the relationship that way, but with time, that feeling will come back and the value of that person will be redeemed with their absense. That is my 2 cents. Please feel free to respond if you dare Eye Of Tiger

We've spoken before Godspeed. Does this theory apply after she leaves you, because of your overbearing nature? When she needs that space, distance and scarcity from you, and she doesn't have it at first and she is overflooded with your presense to the point of utter annoyance and frustration, will this theory still take effect once that attention towards her is cut cold turkey. I'm assuming at first, there will be that sense of relief, but eventually, she will inevitably be reminded of you because of the absense factor. This will only hold true if there was love involved and as was put, a sense of admiration at one point. I believe it will be more of a case of curiosity and not knowing where, what and with whom you currently are. Take into account, respect was not earned initially on the onset of the breakup, because of the lack of space which was requested, or I dare say demanded, but was not carried out. At what point does this theory take its effect after the space has been put into practice, or does it take effect at all? Eye of the tiger #1

Great reply! I could not have articulated it any better myself. Very wise words and very wise comments. It's really all one big cliche, but that's what life is, isn't it? I could have used this great and obviously useful advice five and a half weeks ago. I still had my girlfriend who desperately wanted and needed a reason to stick around and I gave her every reason to leave me and then when she left, I gave her every reason in the world to stay away and that was the last thing in the world I wanted to do, but it was the first thing that I did. She loved me, but you can kill that love and "passionate" by making yourself to needy and clingy and desperate. This could be redeemed with time, if you re-establish control in your life and over your emotions and curiosity will kill the cat. The cat being the ex. I believe that eventually, she will cave in and make some form of contact, because, by maintaining that control and willpower by no longer being the one who is needy and makes yourself available at her beck and call, you will slowly but surely rebuild an interest, that with time, will bring her to contact you. It's not like they left us for another guy, or that we cheated on them. That inexcusable. Having been weak and dependent on them can be simply extinguished by making them realize that you are no longer interested in them or available any longer and their feeling of you always being there for them, will be erased and they can no longer have waht they once thought was there's for the taking. This is when the roles are reversed, but I believe it takes time. Patience between the largest virtue of all. Dan "EyeOfTheTiger1"

the only difference betwwen what you did and what I've done, is that I had not given her any opportunity to call me or contact me. Within 5 weeks, I couldn't hold out for longer than 4 days at a time. I never gave her chance to miss me. All I accomplished was annoying her and giving her more of a reason to forget about me. That's how she explained it, when she was actually still replying to the occasional email at the time. Do put it bluntly, she needed me to change (get stronger and become more independent and secure) and I was trying to convince that I was doing just that, but the fool that I am, didn't realize that my actions were confirming to her that I haven't changed and this gave her the confidence to ignore me and hang up on me on the phone and block me from MSN. It hurt like a bitch, but I just kept on digging that grave, to the point where she is so annoyed by me and no way does she find me attractive or appealing to her on any level anymore, because I came accross as desperate and pathetic. The irony is that during our relationship, she called me like 20 times a day and I hardly ever picked up that phone. How the roles reversed. There was a time she would have given me the chance to prove to her that I could change and I blew it everytime, to the point that she got fed up with it and realized that she's better off on her own and when the day comes, she will prefer ro be with a man, over a little crybaby boy. This kills me inside, because there is not one other man in this world who is more of a man then I am, but God knows how I can ever make her believe this again after my pathetic actions. they say frist impression is the most important. What about out last? Dan

What can I say to that, other than the fact that you are most certainly the man. I can't argue with a single point you've made. I am guilty of all of the above. The thing that stings is that she did love me and gave me ample opportunity to be that strong and confident guy, which I know I really am and all I was able to muster up, was this pathetic, weak and scared little boy who couldn't live without her love. I honestly don't blame her for her present actions. I actually respect her a hell of a lot more than what I've done in the last 5 weeks to try and get her back without success I might add, but you know what, I do still love the woman and do have regret for being such a *** with her. If I would have only read your advice 5 weeks ago. I would be the king of the freaking castle today. In your opinion, is there absolutely no way to gain back her respect and interest in me. I did it before, but she was in my life then. She is no where to be seen now and obviously couldn't see any progress on my end, once it is made. you don't believe in giving it time (a few months let's say) and then slowly re-introducing myself into her world as the new and improved Dan. We were talking about marriage and kids after all and she desperately needed for me to be that strong and stable guy, but I disappointed her and me in the process. Give me some more advice oh wise one. Mucho appreciated senior. I am not Spanish (she is) Dan

No reply to my email? I was the only person that replied to you. Don't you think it would have been nice if you could have replied back to me? I do. Dan, or better known as "EyeOfTheTiger".

This is great and all, but what the hell do we do, if we already screwed up and shoed her just how weak, lost, insecure and desperate we can be? How the heck do we go about redeeming ourselves in the eyes of our loved one who won't look twice at us anymore? I tried that confidence shit with my ex for some time and she was all over me and then I made a vital mistake, I became weak and insecure all over again and she left me and then I chased her and she ran further away. She literally has the balls to hang up on me when I call her and blocks me from MSN when I say hi. I'm pissed off at myself, because I know I screwed up and now I've been labeled. She told me herself that she wants a strong man, not a weak and lost boy. What the hell do I do now? I do want to be able to prove to her that I don't need her, but I don't know how to do it. Dan

That advice you gave me was great, but I encountered some problems in the process. I bumped into her last week and threw a monkey wrench into the whole leave her alone deal. She couldn't talk and she flew away. I got home and emailed her and it made it even worse. She didn't respond. I'm still in love with her and I have this guilt and regret that I'm living for and I believe that she wants me to hurt now, because I hurt her. The fact that she was hurt, meant that she did care, but what happens to those feelings when that wall is built. How in God's green earth do we break it down, because it seems like I once had all the tools and now everything I do, just reinforced it. Help!

I'll help you, if you help me. My post is right below yours, from Oct.8. It's about my girlfiend leaving me because I was too weak and insecure for her. I'm realizing the hardest thing to do when you love someone is to give them space to breathe, especially when they need it. This however, is also the hardest thing one can do. I know. I'm there right now. I've been involved in a long distance relationship and I'll tell you one thing, they for most part, do not work. You cannot truly know a person over a computer. You do not know their habits and whether or not you're even compatible with one another. People force it to work over the internet. It's the challenge of it all. She'll be on her best behavior and so will he for the forst little while that they will be together, but that fantasy soon slips away and then reality kicks in. I've been there twice before and about a dozen other people I know as well and none of them worked out. Give him some time and DEFINITELY do not speak to him every other day and see him once a week. That is your first mistake. You are too much at his beckin call. Distance yourself and pop in and out of his life on an inconsistant basis for the time being and allow him the opportunity to miss you. This a chance of saving and redeeming his feelings for you. Now, to conclude on my own situation here. I bumped into her 3 days ago on the street and she was really surprised to see me and was very nervous, but tried her best to keep it under control. she was on her way to work and couldn't talk to me. I got home and wrote her some more emails and sent her some pictures of us and some songs and did the same thing the next day. I didn't get a response and I realize that I shouldn't have done anything at all. It's been a couple of days now and I don't know what to think anymore and am not sure what to do next, if anything at all. Please read my post, so that you can be filled in on the entire story. I hope I helped to out some and we'll help each other out for the time being. Dan

Thanks for the speedy reply to my post. I could have used you about 4 weeks ago. I'll give you a little more in the way of details, so you can better understand the situation. In the beginning, I came accross rather indifferent with her and she was very attracted to that. She saw it as a challenge to win me over. Eventually what happened, was that I started to fall for her and she started to back away when she realized that I was getting serious. When that happened, I became slightly (to say the least) insecure and started doubting her feelings for me, even though she called me like a dozen times a day and saw me 3-4 times a week. She had more than her share of stress in her life and all she wanted was for me to be this cool, relaxed and supportive guy who loved her and understood that she had her share of stress to deal with and didn't need me to be this clingy and weak type of guy. It was like a chicken and egg act. The more insecure I got, the more she would numb her feelings for me, until one day she told me to please stop questioning her feelings for me and I continued and then she tried to end it, but I got control over myself and became this strong guy literally overnight. She was taken a back and started running after me full speed ahead. She wanted to see me every second and called me more and more and finally declared her love for me with tears in her eyes and spoke of marriage and babies and the whole 9 yards. I was happy, but scared that I couldn't keep up this strong thing going on forever. I became scared to show her how much I loved her and that fear slowly turned the tables again and I became weaker and more insecure than ever and she warned me again to please become stronger because she loved me and she wants me to understand that she can't always be there for me, because of her stress and obligations. The last time we spoke, while still a couple, she told me that she loved me and I asked her why she didn't call me all day? She told me that I am becoming too dependent on her for my happiness and it's scaring her. She told me right then and there that she needed some time away from me and she would call me in a couple of days. I never gave her the opportunity. I called and called and went to her work the next day (crying) ans she told me that I am so weak and she wants a strong man and everytime I do this, she looses her feelings for me. She told me to be patient and respect her. For the next 2-3 weeks, I called and emailed and it pushed her further away from me. I justified to her that I was weak and couldn't survive without her. Finally one week ago today, I cut all ties and am praying to God that if she loved me, which I knew she did. She was going to move to South America, but decided to stay here for me. Now she told me in one email that she needs time and I didn't respect that, so she told me to forget about her, but I know she's just mad and sad and disappointed, because She wanted me to be the one and I couldn't be man enough. I am turning my life around now. I stopped all contact. I'm starting a martial art class tomorrow, but I desperately don't want her to forget me, because there was love in her herat for me and I want to know, what can be done at this point to make her believe that I really can change for the better and change for me this time, not for her, because she doesn't trust me that I can be strong and she said that if she came back to me today, I would be good for a few days and then I would become week and dependent on her again. Could and should I ever try to get in touch with her, or do I wait for her to make the move. Sorry about the length of this, but I needed you to know the whole story. Thanks P.S.: I'll be 25 on oct.24 (I'm hoping she'll call me by then) If not should I make a move? It will have been almost a month at that point.

My relationship did not last years, but it was intense for several months. She had a 4 year relationship and he left her. She met two other guys within 3 years and left both of them and then I came into the picture. She was apprehensive in the beginning and then started warming up to me, the more I showed her I didn't care as much. Eventually she started falling head over heals and then I started warming up to her and she started distancing herself again and I became insecure and started doubting her love for me and would not support her when she couldn't see me as much. I started showing her that I was weak and insecure and she warned me a few times to toughen up, because she wanted a strong guy and the last time she told me she needed her space from me and I chased after her for almost 3 weeks (emails to her and her family, phone calls and even went to see her once) until she told me to leave her alone, because I was too weak and too emotionally dependent on her and that is not what she wants from a guy. She said she loved me, but all of my doubts put a black cloud over her feelings for me and she can't remember the good, because I am not respecting her wishes right now. I've decided to finally give her this space (after 3 weeks) to work on myself and to hopefully let her realize that I am getting stronger and maybe even make her miss me and realize that I had a good heart and that I could respect her and finally be strong. She's convinced herself that I will never change and if she comes back I'll constantly hurt her with my doubts and insecurities. A little advice would be much appreciated here. What can I do to win her back and have her wanting to start trusting me again and do I have any hope here at all. There was no guy in the picture according to her. She told me that she is trying to forget me and she will call when she is ready to, when she knows for sure that I won't beg and insist. What to do?