JadedStar

In short, if I told you my report cards said "does not get along well with others," you'd be hesitant to give me a chance, right? You would be correct. If you told me that in an interview, in all liklihood i would not want to take the risk. It is all about hiring the person with the most talent and the least amount of risk. It is not corporations being demoralizing it is using commonsense. And you are STILL telling me that my views are wrong, and they are no more wrong nor right then yours are. I find nothing incorrect in my post, if you don't agree with that its fine, but please know that my opinion is just as valid as yours. And yes your comments WERE insulting because you basically called anyone who didn't agree with you dimwitted. I dont feel like going back and finding it but yes, you absolutely DID say that people who didn't agree were just "yes men". that is very insulting. You may not have gotten along well with others in school because you insist you are always right. It is not me being competitive it is me saying that you have no right to tell the people who don't agree with you that they are yes men with no mind of their own. Let's agree to disagree, but don't tell me I am wrong when I am stating opinions and opinions are never wrong if they are just that...opinions! As for the "i have nothing to hide comment" i assume that was taken from another post as I dont recall having said that. But thru it all i do not think you are a mean man, I think you are angry that you became a casualty of the system and I do understand that. It can happen to ANYBODY but it is the result of PEOPLE being uber competitive vs blaming it on a company in itself. I am 40 and becoming all too aware that it is a young person's world in the marketplace. They come in very go getting, easily plied, work for less...they are in higher demand but again it is commonsense when it comes to making the profit and loss statements go in the right direction. I may hate it that i lose my job to a 24 year old counterpart, but i understand the business decision that my pay may have reached such a high cap due to tenure that the only wise move is to replace me. Sure i will hate it, but i understand WHY it happens. And there are stakeholders, as in stock holders, memberes of the board who make and drive competitive decisions in the corporate world. IF corporations do not make strategic decisions the stock will plummet and even MORE people will be jobless. I just think you are looking at this thru rose colored glasses if you think that a company should not be money driven. They won't be in business very long if they are not interested in driving up profits and down costs. Stockholders will pull out and they will go belly up.

It's just that I've been playing this silly game for way too long and it saddens me to see so many people going through life with eyes and ears wide shut, buying the conventional wisdom, repeating words that are nothing more than echoes of philosophies of convenience, all designed to make sure we continue to worship at the feet of what really is nothing more than a "ruling class" mentality. You know what, I am very respectful of your plight and the bad experience you have had with your employment and with corporations, and I know it can happen to anyone, but I do take offense to what you said above. My eyes are NOT wide shut and I don't appreciate you telling me that what I post are mere echoes of "philosophy and convenience". I do not appreciate my intelligence being insulted by you insinuating I am just a machine for the man. You can rage against the machine all you want, but let's not go labeling people as "stupid" because their views do not match yours. I will match wits with anyone anyday of the week and do not appreciate this post that is basically calling me a mindless puppet. And yes i take it to be directed to me since I am one of the few who really spoke out in a different direction. Everything you said above I basically countered in my former post so I am not going thru all of it again. I think I have made my points resoundingly clear. The answer is it will never, ever happen because people find it easier to obey, without question, than to challenge authority. Hell, any boob can go through life saying, "Yes, Sir, Yes, Sir." And then to have the nerve to turn around and try to convince ME that you "worked for it"? Give me a break! By the way, some of us find ways to make the system work to our advantage and in turn work to help the system. So yeah i WILL tell you i worked for everything I have. I am only responsible for my own success and as I work on it if a company benefits from it, that is just called a best case scenario all the way around. When an employer asks where do you see yourself in five years, they do not necessarily want to hear you say you will be with THEM for five years, they want to know the type of job you aspire to. It is a very valid question...some jobs you WANT someone who wants to do the same thing for a long time if it is a repetitive job. Others you would rather have a go getter who sees themselves progressing. It does not mean they plan to stay at the company that entire length of time, most cannot answer that specifically. Many people use companies as much as companies use them. I have seen young hotshots move into a company, get all the experience they can then bail to the next company who will give them as little as 1.00 more on the hour. That is their perogative. People tout about companies not showing loyalty - HA neither do most employees today. Generation X'ers have been known to leave a job to go to another one for a mere 25 cents raise on the hour. ten years ago that was my number one bane in hiring. turnover is EXPENSIVE so while generation x (and some of their older counterparts as well) were taking advantage of the more stable company and jumping ship for a couple of extra bucks, the cost of that turnover gradually increased to the point jobs started going overseas. Americans refuse to take any responsibility for any of this....people showing lack of loyalty helped create this environment. Now srvcrow you being an older gent probably DID want to show loyalty at one time, but you can thank your peers who did not for some of this. Everyone, People as in man or woman or People as in Corporations are out to look out for themselves. That is one commonality they share. Simply put: I don't suffer contradictions, double-standards, and double-speak well at all. And the insistence that there's something "more" I should "do" or "be" in order be the "ideal candidate" is insulting as hell! So...how do you get around the fact that you interviewed with five other people for the same job and they interviewd BETTER THAN YOU and have more experience, or more APPLICABLE experience? What is all of this screaming about? Is any employer, even a mom and pop shop, supposed to bow down and give you the job even if you do not have the best qualifications or interviewing skills? The thing you should be screaming about is COMPETITION. Not just Corporations or Companies. Competition seems to be your enemy. Sorry there is usually several people applying for a job and the one who can prove to the best of their ability that they can do the best job wins! It is a fact life in EVERYTHIGN not just employment. The world gets more competitive everyday. Yeah competition is your demon here....corporations are byproducts of a competitive environment. Not the disease itself but the symptoms that manifest themselves. If we were not so competitive as human beings and not so greedy none of these things would exist to begin with. There are not many people alive in america who would not grab the brass ring if they can, some just don't want to put in more than a few hours a day to get it. SOme get lucky and have a combo of good luck and hard work behind them. Corporations are run by men and women and those women are also greedy and that is why we are all where we are today. There is no conspiracy from this dark monster called a corporation...we are all a victim of our own greed. I do hate the outsourcing of jobs overseas but again, thank competition and your fellow competitive american peers. It is a competitive world and the margin on our products here is dropping so LOW to the point that we won't have anyplace to shop soon because no one will be able to make any money thereforeeee no one will be shopping. Companies are searching for the cheapest way to get the job done because a dvd player you once made 100 bucks on profit you now make $2 on per unit IF you are lucky. Did you take Marketing or Economics? The law of supply and demand a foreign concept? A lot of this is commonsense as to WHY it is happening. The world has exploded with more people, and more people means more competition, everyone wants to make the most money that they can. Corporations are not driven by bricks and mortar they are driven by your fellow americans! People who scream about walmart - come on PROGRESS will never be stopped. Sure you want mom and pop businesses to landscape our country from now on but you know that will not happen anymore than we would continue to use an abacus into the millennium...I am sure that people were just as angry when the automobile replaced the horse and buggy - all that noise, pollution, petrol! But progress will continue just the same. It is human nature to constantly improve and compete. It is the bane of our existence as human beings.

The only time that credit checks were performed were for banking positions at the previous company I recruited for.

I am not sure of what you are really asking me? What specifically do you mean what it is like for age discrimination in entry level jobs? ARe you asking if i saw a lot of that? If you are, the answer is no, I did not. I hired based on qualifications and how well a person interviewed. Period.

I do not find this wickedly conceited at all....................and it just might help the OP! i would have said something similar to him....but don't need to, you already did.

Man, this is one thing we resoundingly AGREE on. I also wonder what happened to our country. There are SOME things I can't be okay with.

To be honest where you are is where anyone can be. And i hope you find something soon. For as much as I am realistic about the job force i still know that it is a very unstable economy. I have not gone without my share of layoffs and jobhunting. It is depressing, but I try to realize that it is what it is. What bothers me is the outsourcing of american jobs overseas. That is not just about corporations making money it is about sheer greed. But there will eventually come a time when that comes full circle because if americans are laid off for offshore counterparts, they won't be shopping, and spending money, thereforeeee the need for credit cards, retailers and the like will wane, and they will be FORCED to bring jobs back here. I don't even know if you live in america or elsewhere, but if i had to say i have a pet peeve about corp america it is the offshore project.

LOL Dako. It is an internet forum. It is okay to whine here. bWAAAHHH I don't expect everyone to AGREE with my statements, I just post them for those people WHO MIGHT get something out of it. I am quite okay with being a renegade and a different ball of wax. I know not everyone agrees with my sentiments....

Right on Bionic Guy! REminds me of the Enzyte commerical - with this mindset you must have a very happy misses at home. LOL Or if not, you will one day!

Thank you coffeegirl for using a term that I failed to use earlier in this thread and should have. "WORK ETHIC". That is the key. Corporations ONLY have references to go on when they hire. Someone who has NEVER worked cannot prove work ethic. Someone who worked blood, sweat and tears at McD's for a year as an associate and then was promoted to shift lead can PROVE work ethic by their references. Who would YOU hire? A 19 year old who has never worked or a 19 year old who worked at McDs for a year and was promoted twice? Come on, you KNOW that if they interviewed EQUALLY WELL you would rather take your chance on the one with some evidence that they can do it. I told a mechanic a long time ago who touted that he did not need any certifications or licensing because HE KNEW he could do a good job (Screw the system he said!) that those certs may NOT make you a better mechanic, but it will SET YOU APART from the other people applying for that steady job becuase you have some concrete PROOF. If he is up for a promotion and so is his peer and the peer has an AC cert and state inspection license, but their work ethic and skill is equal, his buddy IS getting it. This cracks me up how people hollar corporate america is "evil" for not hiring people with NO experience. When you interview you are SELLING YOURSELF. DO you really think an employer SHOULD hire a 19 year old kid who has zero references, never has worked before over someone who has a degree and has several references? That does not mean that having a degree and references is PROOF that they are a better risk than the one without it, but it is ALL an employer has to go on. That and how well they interview. I don't care if a kid at 19 is a GENIUS. There is NO substitute for good old fashioned work experience. I know young people way smarter than I am but they do NOT HAVE MY BUSINESS SAVVY and will likely never get it until they have gone thru several years of REAL WORLD BUSINESS experience. I don't buy that embarrassment factor because if you want to succeed in life you will do ANY Job you have very well regardless of your title. Those of you who envy OR hate the CEO with the yacht - they worked their butts off to get to where they are and a lot of times they STOOD OUT FROM THE PACK by making sacrifices (unless they were born into it and we can throw a tantrum about it but that iS CALLED LIFE, some have it easier SO WHAT work harder!), burning the midnight oil, sacrificing their own vacation time to climb the ladder. So when they reach it yes they should be able to spend their yield. Why would ANYONE be a CEO of a company to make 60K a year? They wouldn't bother taking on all of that headache. Why would they sacrifice so much of their life to make what someone else makes who punches in from 9 to 5 and goes home? It would be like thinking a doctor will go thru all of those years of schooling if they thought that doctors only earned 30K in their prime. IT IS CALLED PAYOFF. Some doctors do it for altruism but about 80% do it so that they can live in the right neighborhood, drive the right car, and send their kids to the right schools. They would not spend that many years of their lives and that much money on college to make 35K a year. AND i dont blame them. They earn it. I could never be a doctor because I couldn't be that disciplined. I work hard but no way could I go thru medschool .. I like to sleep! LOL If you hate progress that is fine. But some of us believe in working hard and getting our due without whining. I don't envy the CEO's of companies because I have worked alongside them and i made the choice to not sacrifice quality family time, so I knew i would make less. It is commonsense. I cant make what they do and want to still be home with my family evenings and weekends. If they want to sacrifice their family time, it is their perogative. But to Srvcrow, yes we can agree to disagree and there are no hard feelings. I am just posting this for any young person (or old) who might want a different take on the job market.

Is it ONLY gay sites that he has visited, or an equal number of both? If an equal number of both I'd say he is just bi curiuos...and maybe even bored. If ONLY gay sites, there is a strong chance that he is gay. Is there anything else that he does that might make you feel this way, or is it only the sties? I just have found myself to be highly intuitive about people and normally could tell someone was gay even if they did not appear to act that way.....does your internal instincts give you any other feelings about this ? Or just the sites? I think you should talk to him about it in a very loving and non confrontational way. I think the first conversation you don't ask him if he is gay. You just tell him what you found, and that you want him to know that if there is anything he needs to tell you that you love him just the same. Then leave it at that and let him decide if he wants to come back and tell you or not. I know some people say just ask, but I can almost guarantee you that will invoke his defenses and he will say NO with a kneejerk reaction, and then once he has done that he'll feel it even HARDER to not only tell you later that he is gay, but that he also lied to you when he asked. Being a teen is so darn hard and when a person also has something like this on their minds making them feel even more different it can wreak havoc on their emotions. The lying, drugs and eusive behavior could very well be because this is weighing heavily on his mind. IT could be from a number of things, teens go thru a lot of angst and they feel no one can understand what they are going thru.

Corporate america is all about money. Without it, and without making a lot of it, there would BE NO corporate america. You say why place the blame on the people instead of the corporations. I say why not stop finding something or someone to blame and just do the best you can. Even people with education and experience are going thru work stigmas..How many people are laid off and have to work far beneath their level of education and experience? yet they complain a lot less many times than the kids who dont want to flip burgers. Economy is what it is. IF employers don't figure out how to make the most money there will BE NO companies to work for. We live in a very competitive workforce right now and it is not just the fault of the corporations. They are tyring to stay competitive in a marketplace that is unstable and ever changing. They do what they can for their employees but at the end of the day if the bottom line is NOT MET there will be NO employees and ALL of us will be working for $3 an hour. People get ticked at working hard so companies can get fat. I say i dont mind helping a company grow becuase that is the only thing I CAN DO to help keep my slot stable.

I do not believe you when you say those places are as picky as others. My daughter got a job at dollar tree at 16 with zero experience. My son got a job at wendys with zero experience. They put in three apps and both were employed. that is why i specifically mentioned those two places. My first job was a convenience store and i had no experience. That is three people right off the bat who all got employment never having worked a day in their lives. Of course there is a stigma associated with it. We all had to have some stigma on the job before we could climb the ladder. You have to find the ladder first before you can even put your foot on it. I say pride is getting in his way. And you know what? Since life is all about learning how to be strong no better time than the present for this young man to stop worrying about what his friends think. Over and over in his life he is going to have to do things and not worry so much aobut someone else's opinion. Why on earth would we want to remove every obstacle facing a person when it is those OBSTACLES and having overcome them that will define who he is as a person one day? You can never appreciate a really GOOD job until you have had a few bad ones.

Why? Do you so lack confidence in your own perception of people, your own sensibilities and intuitions, that you'd rather "trust" someone else's? That's doing yourself and potential applicants a huge disservice! They're talking TO YOU and to rely on information being passed behind their back is relying on hearsay! Hell, even in a court of law you're entitled to confront your accusers. And if you're trying to tell me that employers can not be petty, spiteful, and vindictive and will LIE like hell about previous employers, then the only thing I can say is your experience and mine has been completely opposite. And if that's the case, I'm very happy that your experience has been so great. Because there are certain jobs that REQUIRE experience and you or me thinking it is not fair is not going to change it. I started out in a convenience store JUST for the experience. Did i like working there? NO! But it was necessary to get my foot in the door somewhere else because showing up to a corporation with a blank resume was not cutting it. You can argue with me or realize that there is truth to what I am saying. Either/or, it does not matter to me. All the griping in the world is not going to get this kid employed into his dream job until he puts together an action plan to get there. People who do less griping and put more effort in always get farther. I will bet my gut instincts are accurate enough when I say that when he interviews he is probably not putting his best foot forward and taht entitlement attitude that we can see thru the computer screen is more than likely VERY obvious to a face to face recruiter.

THERE IS NO DOUBLE STANDARD HERE. Yes, there is. You said it yourself: You start out in fast food or at the Dollar Tree. But at the same time: I would never hire a kid wtih ZERO experience even for a file clerk job in the corporate world. You did not read it right. NO there is not a double standard. I said i would never hire a kid without experience IN THE CORPORATE WORLD!! i did not recruit for the dollar tree or fast food, if I did then I WOULD hire them. POint is that you dont get corporate jobs wtihout experience. You get experience at places that typically hire people WIHTOUT experience, i.e. Wendy's, the Dollar Tree, Etc.

Yup and one of the first things we learn as an adult is "life is not always fair". Even so we have to perservere and go full steam ahead.

THERE IS NO DOUBLE STANDARD HERE. You start out in fast food or at the Dollar Tree. that is HOW you get the experience and THEN You can get an entry level corporate job. THAT is the message I am conveying to him. My son is 18 and works at Wendy's so I am not going to give this guy any different advice then I did my own son. Jesus I did it and countless others. I didn't whine about not getting the good jobs until I got my experience on the GRUNT WORK. If one doesn't want to get ones hands dirty then one can't complain when they keep getting turned down for the entry level corp jobs. I feel I am giving him solid advice because I WAS A RECRUITER for a long time. I would never hire a kid wtih ZERO experience even for a file clerk job in the corporate world. There had to be SOME experience and someone I could call for a reference before I would take a chance on that person for one of my hiring mangers' jobs.

I suggest you take some interviewing courses, and make sure you are not unintentionally BLOWING your interview by the way you are representing yourself. I have to say anyone who thinks working fast food is beneath them and they will "commitsuicide" if they do sounds as spoiled and irrational ignaramuses you are screaming about. Whew. Can you tell us all WHY they should be willing to take you on without any experience? Even McD's gives you SOME experience managing money and customers....

I am, however, somewhat struggling with the second situation you provided with the female friend. Your justification on lying (or just omitting information) is that if someone sets up unrealistic parameters they are justified on ignoring and hiding the action if they break them. My No Solarist, i did not JUSTIFY it. What I am saying is that a person who IS extreme and flips out over innocent stuff is probably going to deal with these kinds of lies no matter who they are with. If a person does not have a healthy self esteem and cries wolf over EVEryTHING they are going to in essense "create" a lying partner. I am not letting the partner off the hook who lied to keep the peace, they STILL should be held accountable. But the thing is you have to look at the "crimes" here on a case by case basis. This is the main reason I responded to PUppeteer in the first place...I was not condescending him I was challenging him on saying cheating is "black and white" because IN MY OPINION it is not. It is VERY gray. You sometimes cannot make a blanekt statement about anything. Decisions must be made on a case by case basis and taking into consideration the dynamics of the relationship and the pre determined boundaries that couple already secured. No, cheating is not black and white at all and Puppeteer that is my opinion. I am not condescending you but I AM disagreeing.

I apologize for my heat. I just didn't like being attacked for an opinion. I promise to behave.

I think it has a lot to do with the attentiveness of the man. My husband is in his 40's and lasts longer than most 20 year olds...why? Because he IS INTO it and is as into pleasing me as he is himself..... Now there are some men who really CANNOT help it when they don't last very long. On the flipside it can be a compliment to the lady. He may be so hot and bothered and not as in control of his sexual organ and just can't help it. I think that men who are more experienced are able to sustain longer as they learned tricks thru out their life........my husband will actually slow down when hear "nears" orgasm because he does not want it to end so soon. It takes practice for a man to be able to master this....

Deleted post as I am not going to allow this person to make me angry. And don't forget it was you who said anyone who thinks "other" than you was delusional. Umm, not so much. I guess you missed this part of my post where i said "So your definition is way too gray for most people". I am allowed to feel the way I do.

This is a forum for opinions. Don't ever tell me what I can do or say here until you become a moderator. Thank you. How dare you make such a bold declaration. My post was exchanging a difference of opinion. Yours was downright rude and uncalled for. I am not sure why you think that your last post which was very vague on what cheating is or is not was supposed to be the law. I posted about what I FELT it was and I had every right to disagree with you. I did not disparage you or talk down to you like you have done to me. we all come here to voice our thoughts and opinions.... YOU DARN STRAIGHT so perhaps remember that before you talk to someone like dirt just because I dared challenge your definition of cheating. I had every right to post my thoughts as you did yours. YOu are obviously angry that your wife cheated on you, BUT DO NOT take it out on me.

Oh honey. Your pain comes out thru this post. I know how hard this must be for you. Are you in counseling? Just remember not everyone does this and DO NOT blame yourself. Cheating is RARELY about the person being cheated on. It is aobut inadequacies deeprooted inside of the cheater. Make the choice to stop blaming yourself TODAY. Think of it like this, there is NO ONE he can blame because he is A PROFESSOR! He breached teacher/student trust. It is not only a horrific thing to do to your wife but UNETHICAL as a professional in the teaching community! If he blamed you what a cheap low way to justify his acts. Even if he were a single man I think sleeping wtih a student is a sign of one's character. Certain positions in life are those that instill trust and it is just an unspoken truth to know you don't violate it... like a doctor with a patient. And I cannot even begin to understand your pain fully but I do disagree that sleeping wtih someone is the only thing not fixable. Emotional infidelity is a huge thing for me and I couldn't take it. My husband and I started out in our relationship with cyber and I KNOW how powerful it is. If he did that with another woman he might as well have had intercourse. I do not think it would be "fixable".

this might be your opinion, but again, you say there are no shades of gray yet your entire post is gray. If you spent too much money at the clothing store and don't tell him as you and he talked about saving money, you are embarrassed to let him know of the slip up, did you cheat on him? I'd say not that is ridiculous. LIed maybe, cheated no. Sorry, this definition you have may work for you but not everybody. Lying and cheating are also not the same thing. In the scenario above if I found out my husband spent extra money on a golf game when we discussed he wouldn't, I would not be mad that he cheated. I don't even know if I'd call that lying. He may have not meant to spend it and when he did was afraid to tell me. I find that forgivable providing it doesn't happen often. So your definition is way too gray for most people. Let me go a step further. A couple has been dating let's say six months. Strip club conversations just have never come up, neither were avoiding it, just never becamse a topic of discussion. he goes out wtih the guys one night and goes to one of these places. He comes home and mentions it to his g/f. She becomes furious and he is confused as his last two g/f's didn't mind him going. He didn't lie. He didn't hide it. However, the g/f feels that the lapdance he got was cheating. Did he cheat? According to YOUR simplistic definition if he didn't hide it or lie about it he didn't cheat. Yet many people would feel HE DID cheat by getting that lapdance. There are as many women here who DONT mind their b/f doing this as there are those who do. Yeah, your definition is far too gray and not specific. Your definition does not factor in the fact that some men and women lie to their partner because their partner is so dramatic and flips out over everything that they omit things to keep the peace. Let's say a girl does not like a guy's best friend who is female. The guy KNOWS in his heart this friendship is innocent, and he has known this girl a long time. He talks to her on the phone and doesn't tell his g/f as he does not want a spanish inquistion. Did he cheat? According to your definition he did because he didn't tell her. But IMO he didn't cheat. He is weak maybe because he does not want to face her wrath, but I dont think that would be cheating. People who set unrealistic parameters on people also set themselves up for deceit. There are people on this forum even who are so paranoid and terrified their partner will cheat that they end up with partners afraid to share even innocent things for fear of a huge fight. Doesn't mean they cheated, it means they don't want to deal with a fight or hurt feelings. Cheating is not black and white. It means something different to almost everybody. And if you think these topics don't need to be discussed in detail early in relationships you might be the one delusional.