abuhar

what is happiness? it is when your desires are fulfilled. If you have infinite desires (to the contrary to finite, material things or projects) the satisfaction of their fulfillment brings happiness. however, if you have no desires (both infinite or finite), you can't experience great happiness. For example we bought our house, recently, and I am very very happy. Even if this desire is finite I HAD this desire. Some people don't. If everything comes "for granted" (as in your case, Foobar) then it is possible that boredom comes. But the conclusion is wrong: should not we treat people good? Yes we should. The trouble is that people may not appreciate your treatment because they don't develop those desires yet. For example, princess, has everything, what else she needs? She needs to have her OWN burning desires and their fulfillment! If there is no desire, there is no happiness. In your case, when material wealth increases, non-material richness must come too. How? Hard to say. some people are simply "poor" in their soul, there is lack of love to people to develop any decent internal drive to do something meaningful. Unfortunately, children are very sentitive for lack of infinite goals in their parents lives. They may become "poor" in their souls as well, that is what I am afraid of. I don't know exactly the situation in your families, guys. But in your case there are two options: 1. your wives are suffering from poverty of their soul, they want inspirational goals but can't produce anything by themselves 2. your wives are tormented by their strivings for infinite goals, but you are not fitting their needs by being too "down to earth" or something like that. Was it any help? Good wishes, guys

One intelligent man said, when mothers complain about giving their lives for children and they grow thankless, that the problem was not that they loved children too much, but that they loved only children... Moral is love spoils when you love only one person in this world. It means you should love also yourself, and other people, in general. If this is not clear, than it is too soon to say, sorry.

It is very sad. She was depressed and lonely... and you gave life and now she is not depressed but you are depressed... Life is so unfair. But we people do life fair or unfair. According to your messages, she is not fair. however, it is her own problem, which she had before (being depressed is a sign of quality of character, not the real situation). Now, when she is more independent she disrespects you. Hmm, perhaps, inside she still feels she doesn't deserve you, or she just not able to love, as I mentioned. This sound like she is unfair, in fact, this is a big trouble - not ability to love back. she just can't find resources in heart, this is possible. I am pondering, don't take my words closely, I am just curious about how strange people are. I have an idea that she might even be jealous for you being so kind and good for her, as she believes she doesn't deserve this. I think it is psychological trap. She does everything to prove HER own theory, instead of growing spiritually, she is stuck in her own thoery, which she might not even realise! Here is trouble! Well, I better stop. again, don't take anything said seriously, only if it makes sense to you.

I would not agree with people who say it is ok. If you argue for the sake of arguing, sooner or later people find this out and will disrespect. Think of the subject, study it, find your point of view. It may not be easy, since you are taught to criticize everything and anything without thinking (so called critical thinking). however your worry is good because you want to have a firm position, even if it might be wrong. On the other hand, of course, hesitating bout being wrong is good because you argue not for the sake of arguing but for the sake of the truth. you are trying to understand the truth and in the discussion you find weak points of both parties, which makes you think oppposite. So, the issue is here - study hard, study the subject matter, read serious people. I know this is not easy to find your point, but take your time, even if this takes years. But don't be indifferent and "feel good" about yourself. If is a good worry. By the time you will learn so much that eventually you will be confident what is your point and you will be able to stand for it - the quality, which not many people experience. Good luck!

Hi girls, may I join this counseling? To my opinion, one reason why we people grief, when abandoned, is that we belief we never find any better man, (woman), thereforeeee we try to keep as much as possible what we have, which, inside of us, we think we don't deserve. Another word: he is too good for me and as a result he leaves me. How pity! Another reason is true love. This is seldom. But is this case we don't grief because we abandened, but because it is destiny, it is impossible, so we don't blame our part for causing us so much pain. So, in order to heal sooner, we need to realise as soon as possible that we need to rescue our dignity with ANY kind of activity, which saves us from having leisure time to feel sorry about us. Remember about HABIT to feel sorry about "myself". It is habit. We must fight it, and feel good about ourselves. By any means. and get success in any kind of activity, where you are good. Get success, feel good about your achievements and this way you raise your dignity and may attract other better guys, which very very fast rescue you from misery, believe me!

I apologise in advance that I have not read everything what you write about your relationships, and that I am just pondering about such kind of families. I hope that my thoughts may open eyes on some truth. Maybe? I am curious, what is going wrong in some moderm american, european families in general. There is an impression that men are suffering from women taking over leadership in families. Good caring husbands are abandoned by strong women, who inside of their hearts hope to be weak and loved by strong and loving men. However they also want to be strong and independent. This is confusing them and others. I think, what I mean by the word justice - it is equality of personalities in the relationship. Not physical equality of wife and husband, not financial equality (which in most cases released wives from being dependent from husbands), I mean spiritual level of equality. It has nothing to do with religion, I repeat, nothing about visiting church and believe in God. I mean human spirit. Spirit- you may call it - drive, or courage, or will, whatever word, but the essense is still same, it is human spirit. It is an internal striving for something higher than me, higher than my wife (or husband), even above my children, though I won't replace children, it is just not comparable. What you list: hobbies, interests, it is allright, but it is still, to my opinion, level of material things, like toys, which are important to you, to your friends, but it is not as inspiring as, for example, to write a book, which would help many people, or, for example, to strive to become president, or at least governor - so to influence a nation for the better goals, than they are now. Or, let's say something more realistic: establish a business, which will serve millions, or at least thousands people for a better purposes, sell a perfect thing for people's utility, what a wonderful example to tell your kid that "this is what I am doing, son." Something really important, more than your own personal interests. Am I clear? That is of course not enough. Some people work just honestly at their position and still maintain their dignity very high. Maybe the magic word is dignity? Your wives are not respectful because you don't realise your own dignities, that is, your values, worthyness. From my point of view, you are very good husbands, both of you, hoping to improve relationships, because you love your kids and families. But the problem in your families are from not having justice, or equalities of personalities of spouses. (I address you, guys, because it is easier to me to generalize, because I might not know some peculiarities) So, I continue: one of you are better than another spouse- here is the problem. Better - means - being able to love, (which include to respect, to appreciate, listen and work for changes), and another part - is not able to love. That may sound scary, but this is my discovery, that the truth is painful. I suppose that you are very good caring loving husbands and your wives are not able to appreciate it. So they invent all kind of reasons to abandon you. The reasons could be : I don't deserve this man, or, this man doesn't deserve me (Inequality of personalities, not equal spirits) I know I try to be clear, but this is such a subject, which is more philosophical and thereefore needs skills in explanation. I repeat, one reason that your wives intuitively realise that you are too good for them, another reason is that you are not enough having that spiritual drive (Please don't refer to God, I don't mean religion). By spiritual drive I mean strong feelings, strong interest in somethong that is REAL thing, examples I listed above. That would impress women, because when a spiritually strong woman lives with a man, who just want to fit her, to please her, it is not enough for her. Not because she doesn't need your pleasing, she needs REAL man around. Especially in the developed economy, when living is relatively easy, woman is not occupied with everyday survival, she begins to look for meaning, for REAL thing, for REAL man, and "pleasing" huzband is only for keeping her kids and family, but not for soul. There is a saying of men: "the less we love woman, the more she likes us." It is not because woman wants man to not love her, but because woman wants man to be man, to have strong spirit, to be an inspiring example for her kids. That is what I wanted to tell, and I will try again if it is any help. Thank you for attention.

It is ok if two boys love one girl and show it, as long as nobody encroaches anybody''s dignity directly. It is not pleasant that you have a rival, but why not to prove your girl that you are the one. Instead of being confused, be the one, be the hero, be gentlman, so she would see you are fighting for her! In old times men fight for woman's heart and she used to choose the best. Now it is same, in hearts.

Hello guys, It was interesting to read dialog between two reasonable and confused men. I have been always surprised with the relationships like that. What exactly I mean is that in families like yours people can crazy from not having something very important. I would call it: lack of spiritual goal, which has nothing with religion, but something opposite to material things. I think your wives are bored and thereforeeee find any reasons to be miserable no matter what you do, unless something happens. You worry too much about them and yourself but in fact they seek for something higher than both you and them and even your children. Unfortunately you may not understand me, or this sounds too banal, but the truth is that there is lack of the truth in your relationships and thereforeeee lack of goodness. I would, in your shoes, try to think first about what actually is my goal and sense of life. Then i would engage kids in meaningful activities, or "projects". I would be busy, so that I would not have time to feel sorry about myself or her or our family, but would do really interesting important job. I don't know what exactly, but I am saying that while you are talking about things, which seemmm to you important, you better change your activities and your wives would find your intereating people and forget their "sickness". I see something like injustice in your relationships. I am sure, intuitively your wives feel same. Even if they are injust themsselves, they don't like that you don't do anything about that. what I am indifferent is: you kids too feel that injustice, that insincerreness in your relationship. That is fake and thereforeeee injust for your kids. It doesn't do any good for them. sorry, I didn't mean moralizing, but I am not indifferent, I wish I could help.