charley

Because they're my friends, same as a guy friend. With the ones I'm attracted to, it's still the same thing too. They're my friends, same as a guy friend. The attraction is a separate issue entirely to me, and not relevant to the friendship. I keep it separated well enough so it's not a problem for them either. Liking a woman and being attracted to her are two entirely separate issues to me. Our friendships are based on the liking, not the attraction or absense of attraction. The attraction, or lack of it, is irrelevant to our being friends. Attraction is only relevant to whether we might become more than friends. Even if we did become more than friends, I'd still keep our friendship as a separate issue from attraction or romance. To me they are separate things.

Hey, we can be real legitimate friends while at the same time I'd love to @#$% her until she can't see straight. I see no conflict there as long as I behave as a friend and a gentleman. We might even flirt, but that does not invalidate our friendship. I'm ruled by my big head more than my little head, even if the little one is screaming in the background. None of that ^ invalidates my friendships. Some of them have last 13 years. All my female frienships are more than 3 years old. So clearly either they don't hold it against me for being attracted to them, or they don't know because I'm such a gentleman . Maybe a little of both? Either way, we are still longterm friends of years. Then too, there's all those other women friends of mine where we have no sexual attractions at all. They are also friends of many years. Nice guys are horny too. I think most women understand that and accept that, as long as he's well behaved about it. I can't help wanting some of them. What I can control is how I behave about it. I'm very respectful. If or when I flirt with some of them (or them with me), it's in polite, respectful ways. Nothing to overt. All I know is I have many longterm women friends and attraction is present with some of them, and not with others, but regardless it doesn't increase or decrease our friendship. I think a lot of that is how I conduct myself. Some of it is their tolerance. Some of it may be my tolerance, though I don't like being stared at excessively.

IMO, "platonic" means no sexual contact or actions. It doesn't mean no desire. Also, sexual attraction does not invalidate a friendship. It can coexist with a friendship. Also, there are many of my friends where there is no element of attraction for either of us.

Ya? Is that correct? Even if it is correct, I've got enough women friends to make up for all the other guys. Ha ha ha ha.

I'm amazed that someone can seriously ask if men and women can be friends. Haven't you ever experienced that? Good grief, I'm straight and I've got a heap of platonic women friends. One of my women friends is a lesbian, another is bi. Most are straight. Many of my women friendships are years old. Some as long as 13 years old. My women friends fall into 5 categories: 1) Some we are mutually NOT attracted to each other, but we like each other. 2) Some I am attracted to, but they're NOT attracted to me, but we like each other. 3) Some are attracted to me, but I'm NOT attracted to them, but we like each other. 4) Some we are mutually attracted to each other, but she is unavailable (BF or married), but we like each other. 5) We are mutually attracted to each other, she is available, and I need to ask her out soon. Also, we like each other. That explains the 5 categories of my platonic women friends. I admit there's a few of them I want so bad it hurts, but it doesn't seem to be problem to our continuing to be friends. There was one gal who wanted me bad and I wasn't interested. It freaked me out when she used to stare at me excessively, but she stopped staring and now we get along great again. In the case of the number 5 type women, I need to convert that into something more than friends, but still also remain friends. There's no reason I can't have a romantic relationship with a friend and stay friends. I've done it before and it was great. In the cases of the other types of women, we'll continue being friends as we are.

I wasn't trying to scare you off from the guy. I was just saying that some caution is reasonable, especially since he's far away and you haven't met him yet. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or a good guy. I'm just saying be careful as you explore and find out. At the same time, assert your right as an adult to explore and find out. Just keep one or two close friends in the loop if you travel to go see him, or if he travels to come see you. He's probably a fine guy. However, until you know for sure, take some precautions, but do explore it. My concerns are to do with the distance and that you don't know him in person yet. Age has nothing to do with it, IMO. If he was your age and lived in another country, I'd be giving you the same cautions. Age is not the issue. The issue is the long distance element of this. That is an issue that you might be able to work through. I say "might" because I think any long distance relationship is difficult. Once you get to know him, if you find out he's safe, then that's a major obstacle out of the way. As for age, well that only matters to the extent that it matters to you. If it doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't matter. If it matters to some others, that's their problem. Many would be fine with it. It's the long distance issues that must be dealt with, including safely getting to know him. That has to do with distance. It has nothing to do with age. Statistically, older men are safer than younger men with regard to rape or violence, though everyone is an individual and must be taken as an individual. My concerns with him are limited to distance and the fact that you don't yet know him in person. Those are valid concerns, but have nothing to do with age. If you travel to go see him, you need to keep a local friend in your area well informed and expecting you to call everyday. He's probably a fine guy, but you can't assume. You have to find out one step at a time with your friend backing you up by expecting your daily call. I support your right as an adult to explore this, but I also want you to be safe about it.

Yes, but that ^ was after she'd already secretly dated him long enough to know he was worth it. Initially, she didn't know if he was worth it. I think you're still at the not knowing phase since you've NOT spent a lot of face to face time with this guy in person yet. So you don't know yet, if he's worthy of you, or even if he's trustworthy or safe. So don't get to comfortable to fast. My sister secretly dated her BF for a while first so she could find out if he was worth it. However, she did tell her best friend knew who she was with, where they were, and when she'd be back. That way she could be safer because in the beginning, she didn't know him yet. Don't forget to have at least one or two friends fully informed at all times, and have them meet him, so they can look out for you and call police if you disappeared or something. Seriously. Also, make sure he knows those friends are keeping tabs on you and expect to hear from you. A nice guy would understand your caution and accept it. A bad guy would think twice about hurting you, if he knew your friends are keeping tabs on you and expect you to call them at least once a day. I'm not afraid of age-gap relationships because I've been in one very good one, and one OK one (both years ago). In one case I was the younger person, in the other I was the older person. Both of those relationships were better for me than the same age relationships I've had with women. So I'm comfortable with age-gap relationships. However, long distance relationships are another matter entirely. They have the potential to be scary or dangerous since you don't really know this guy yet, and if you go to his country, you will be at his mercy. Since he's older than you, I think he should travel to you, at least the first time. My personal prior experiences with long distance relationships have left me skeptical of them. I'll leave it to others to explain the reasons and cautions of long distance relationships, and the problems that occur even when the other person is a good person. I prefer to stay local myself. So while I do support your right to be an adult and make your own decisions, I do also caution you to protect yourself. I'll leave it to others to cover the details of how and why.

I suggest you just play it cool and don't force this situation on your parents since you are 17 because they legally have all the power and you and your BF have none. You are at their mercy and they could potentially get him into a lot of trouble, even if he never touched you. They could just say he did regardless of reality. Play it cool until you're 18 and don't push your parents. It's only a few weeks anyway. After you are 18, then you will legally be the master of your own life. So wait until then before you assert yourself. No point rocking the boat when you are 17. Wow. I never had to deal with this stuff. My GF's parents were always inviting me over and like me a lot. The hostility thing is something I never experienced.

Good grief. He's not even that old. When you are 18, none of this should matter at all. However, if it still matters to your parents, they'll get used to it eventually. Your situation sounds the polar opposite of when I was 24. I dated a 17 year old and her parents loved me. I was friends with her parents before, during, and after the time we dated. I knew her parents before I knew her and they introduced us. It's to bad you don't have that sort of nice situation.

As for the safety concerns that others have expressed, I do share their concerns. Not because he's older than you, but because he's far away from you, you haven't met him yet, and I don't think you fully know him yet. Those are my concerns for you.

I do think you should introduce your BF to your friends and family, if/when that becomes appropriate. I would introduce my GF (if I had one), even if she was 20 or 23 or 25 or 30 or whatever. I'd introduce her and not even mention the age thing. Sure they've got eyes and can see she's younger than me, but I'm not bringing the subject up. If they bring it up, I'll tell them thanks for caring about me, but this is a non-issue because we like each other. (no further explanation required) They might object at that point, but just stand firm on the fact that it doesn't matter to you, and it's your life. That's if they bring it up. If they didn't bring it up, then neither would I (neither should you). =============== My sister married a Mexican guy. She never asked our opinion about it. I mean, she never asked her friends or her family. She just told my dad one night that she had a BF she wanted to bring him home to meet the parents. He says fine. She then says, "I just want to let you know in advance that he's Mexican - so you aren't surprised." So she gave fair warning so no one would do a double-take, but at no time did she ever ask permission or for opinions. She just told us, "This is my boyfriend." It wasn't open for discussion or opinions. Her attitude was that we could like it or lump it, but she hoped we'd be accepting. She'd secretly dated him ongoing for a while first to make sure he was worth it. However, she did tell her best girl friend right away because it's smart and safe to have one friend who knows who you are with and where you are going on a date in the beginning before you know the guy. That's for safety. My sister is smart. After she knew he was worth it, only then did she start making introductions to family and other friends. They've been happily married for 3 years now and have a kid. We aren't bigots. We were fine with it. I mean fine with him being Mexican. Now with a guy, any guy, touching my sister, I admit I was not fine with that. Everytime he put his arm around her I felt the instinctive urge to snarl, but that wasn't cause he's Mexican. I'd have been the same with any guy. However, I suppressed the urge to say, "Get your arm off my sister" and I was nice to him. One thing you have to take into account is that most men have a natural instinct to protect their sister or daughter from any guy, of any color, of any age. My sister is same with me. Anytime I had a GF (the few times), she could scarcely suppress a snarl, and both I and my GF could detect it. She's very protective of her brother for at least the first week. After about a week, I got used to her BF putting his arm around her. If he'd been a white guy, it'd have been the same. After a week, I got used to the idea that my sister is an adult and not a little girl anymore. Apparently it also takes her a week to adjust when I have a GF. Same thing.

My heart goes out to you. Getting stood up is hurtful.

Well, I'm treating Valentines Day as a friend day for my lady friends since I have many of those, but no romantic relationship. Also treating it like Mother's Day for my mom. I'm getting each a card. Something cute and childish like a Snoopy or Peanuts card. Nothing romantic or serious. Also, a bit of chocolate for each. For the one friend I did ask out, who's not available, I understand and accept she's not available, which is why I'm not getting her earings like I had originally intended. However, I do want to do something extra for her beyond what I do for my other friends. Something nice, but not romantic. So I'm getting her a book of free carwash passes for the local carwash. She likes to keep her car clean. She get's embarrassed if it's dirty, but she doesn't have enough time to wash it herself, and can't afford to pay to have it washed very often. This way she can get it washed as often as she likes for no cost for a year. Not a romantic gift, but a nice gift for a friend. Plus I'll get her a card and some chocolate same as my other lady friends will get.

Yes. Those are valid concerns. Be careful there.

Batya, sometimes you are so wise and dead on accurate. I agree with what you said above very much. There are some really stupid arrogrant people in this world. You're right about arrogance being linked to insecurity sometimes. Other times I think it's just lack of empathy, or maybe just plain meanness. I think any of those, or a combination can cause arrogance. Arrogance is so ugly.

Hi Bethany. German Sheperds were bred to protect sheep, humans (their owners), and to be a general all purpose working dog. That means they were bred for intelligence and athletic ability, as well as a reasonable, yet brave temperment. They were NOT bred for killing or to be vicious like a Pit Bull or Rottweiler. It's not the same thing. German Sheperds have the instinct to protect when necessary, not to kill and attack (and continue to attack) whether a threat exists or not. German Sheperds were bred to have judgement about when to use force to protect livestock or their owner. Killer breeds were bred to attack without without provocation and without mercy until death. German Sheperds can be aggressive, but that typically only in defense of themself or their master. Police dogs are bred and trained to subdue people, not kill or maim them. This is completely different than a dog that is bred, and/or trained to attack without provocation and continue until the victom is dead. There is no comparison. If I had any thought about you owning a German Sheperd, it's that you wanted a dog that would protect you, be intelligent, and a good pet. I think you have good judgement. That is entirely different than choosing a killer breed. A German Sheperd is an excellent choice for protection, and they are very nice dogs. They are also intelligent and have reasonably good judgement about when to use force, how much force is need, and when to stop. Part of what they were bred for is intelligence and good judgement. They are excellent dogs. I used to work summers for the humane society when I was in my early twenties and in college. I assisted an officer in the field. Any humane society officer or police office will tell you that I am right to be suspicious of people who own breeds of dogs bred to kill other dogs or attack or kill people. The people who buy those dogs are often people prone to violence, or at the very least they are often prone to bad judgement. Not always, but often. The man described in the original post also displays several other red flags of tendencies towards violence. I don't assume that owners of killer breeds are always bad people, but I do keep a close eye on them for other red flags. When a person shows 2 red flags I'm getting very suspicious. When they show 3 or more, I know they are a bad apple. This man shows many red flags. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's a duck. Let's also remember what the dog peed on. A punching bag. Innocuous by itself, but when put into context with all the other things, the punching bag is yet another red flag of a guy with violent tendencies or fantasies.

Just to make myself very plain on this point. I agree with Scout. Kindness cannot be taught, at least not to an adult. Cruel adults are not reformable. Better to be single than with this man. Your feet were made for walkin, and walkin's what they should be doing. Do still get your dog obediance training, but later. Right now, just get out.

Let me add that many people who own pit bulls and Rottweilers are notorious for certain behaviors. 1) Intentionally abusing dog to make dog mean 2) Encouraging their dog to attack smaller or weaker dogs called bait dogs to teach their killer to kill. Your dog is in danger, from his dog as well as him. 3) Those type dog owners are notorious for being violent to other people. This guy has so many red flags that he's like a quilt made of red flags. Your dog does need obediance school, but that is a separate issue from the abuse. Your BF is a dangerous scumbag with violent tendencies that most everyone else in this thread can plainly see, except you. Open your eyes and use your feet while you still can. If nothing else, get your dog a new home. That way you'll be the only one getting abused, cause I guarantee this guy will start in on you eventually.

Perhaps your dog peed because he was frightened? I see several red flags here. 1) A man who'd abuse a little dog is capable of anything, including abusing you, or kids. I would not associate with someone like that. As Scout suggested, leave him. 2) The breed of dog tells a lot about the dog owner. Men who own dogs bred for fighting are giving a plain clue to their personality. He likes dogs with violent capabilities and tendencies. That's psychological projection. i.e. - he has violent capabilities and tendencies himself. He likes violence, and that's why he is attracted to owning a Rottweiler. 3) His behavior is disrespectful to you. If you don't leave, this guy will eventually start beating you, or his dog will bites you. At least find a good home for your dog, if you won't save yourself. Why didn't you go downstairs and immediately investigate and confront him when you came back for cell phone and heard him abusing your dog? I'll tell you why. Because deep down in your emotions, and instincts, in the back of your subconsicious mind, you know this guy is dangerous and you were afraid to go down there and investigate and confront him. Please wise up. If your dog is your child, then protect your child and yourself and get out now. Obviously he is abusing your dog and doing God knows what to him when you aren't home. Take your dog to vet right away and have him examined for abuse and injuries. If you stay with this man, I predict it's only a matter of time before he starts abusing you.

Yes, because "free will" is the basis of responsibility, which is the basis of sin. Without free will, there can be no sin. At least that is what the Bible teaches. I'm not sure myself.

It's a mistake and a waste. Maybe a sin too.

I can understand why you started a thread about it. When I first came to E I posted a lot about age-gap because I was interested in the subject. It was from those experiences and a local experience, that I learned to just do as I think best, and not ask 3rd party opinions. I learned not to raise age-gap issues because they can get very unpleasant sometimes. Yet, if you just do as you please and don't ask for opinions, you can avoid most controversy. That's not just true of age-gap issues, it's true of many things. However, I can understand why you started the thread. I hope it does you some good.

True. Some will always talk. A few might even have the nerve to say something to you. Bijoux, you can ignore them. However, don't invite them to comment. If you ask their opinion, that is inviting comment, which might be a good or bad comment. If you just do what you do, then they can see by example that it works for you and then will either learn to accept or ignore it. Most people really wouldn't care anyway. I think the majority of people are accepting people. It's just the minority that aren't. There is a nut (or bigot) or two in every crowd. Don't invite them to raise their hands by asking their opinions, or even by announcing your ages. If you ignore it, most others will too.

Right on. I agree.