Ice_9

Hi Passion, Am doing well. How are you?

Thx for replies. I know I cannot do anything. Just wondered what she can do. Can she ust believe in herself, can she learn from books or will she need pro help?

Hi, I posted a thread entitled "Overcoming Emotional Barriers Thru Fear" where my gf and I split over a few arguments. As her reasoning for ending didn't make sense, and I sensed she was pushing me away when she didn't want to, I didn't give up. On Sunday, I told her that I'd been pushed too far and that unless she stops burying hrt herad in the sand, I am off. At this point she said "are you dumoping me?". This is AFTER she dumped me and kept rejecting me. She then broke down crying and admitted she never wanted me to go but that she feels not worthy of me and all my attempts to be there for her made her even more convinced she didn't deserve me. She admitted to extremely low self esteem. She is beautiful yet thinks she's ugly and she doesn't think she deserves happiness. She was in a abd relationship where her husband put her down and led a double life. She only found out when he was hauled off to jail for fraud after 6 months of mariage and as a result, I've been suffering. Eg: I changed jobs and that freaked her because her ex kept changing jobs and was a good for nothing dreamer/loser. I would like to have my own business one day but that freaked her out as her ex wanted his own business (and embezzled people to get funds) etc. She says she had LSE even before her ex. How can she/I do to help her get over this?

Thx Pices, She has been very honest - as much as she can be. If she didn't want it, she'd say so. It really was a matter of (seemingly) being pushed and (suppsoedly) seeing the same behaviour that her ex put her through - which she is terrified of repeating. As I said above, we went on holiday in Sep and it was a major thing for her, she was so excited and happy. I broke her heart on the holiday and she never discussed it. when we came back, there was the occasional incident that started her dounts and as none of these were discussed, they just got added and added. Then she saw started to misread incidents to follow the pattern of behaviour she expected. It's not that she didn't want it. She supposedly saw a pattern of behaviour that brought into question our future. Even until mid December she was doing things and going to great lengths to show and display her love. She wouldn't have done this if she wanted out. We're not kids. We were serious and had serious plans. We were going to buy a house this year. To acknowledge it's over. Well, that hurts. Thx Anyway, have a good weekend

Hi Pices, Thx for the reply. Me and you are living parallel live sit seems. My * * * * came to a head on NY Eve and is all but over. I too am in the angry stage. I don't want to write down our relationship but I did write a letter telling some home truths. It started out as a truly impartial letter to help her make a true decision but it soon turned to resentment. Eg: "you said you wanted us to work. Have you honestly opened up? Have you truly committed. Only you can answer this" soon became "you want us to work out? What have you done? Nothing! You got so scared as to pull up your emotional barriers but you've just sat there - all protected and safe. When did you go out on a limb to put us back on track considering you want us to work? You didn't do this, didn't do that etc." It went on naming all the points I've felt frustration over - mainly her exaggerations, misperceptions and distortions. It's still sat on my PC. I really want to send it but I don't want her to think I'm psychotic or give her physical evidence she can show her parents and friends and have a go at me. But at the same time, I've took enough * * * *............even though I can understand how her mind is working. It's annoying as I am more analytical than this. I am feeling more and more detached as time goes on and as I see no end in sight as she piles new problem on top of new problem. But I can actually realise "I was madly in love until last week. I know I feel removed now but that is because of all this and because my trust and heart has been broken. thereforeeee I know there's a good chance we can get it back, providing I can learn to trust her once more." Unfortunately, she is just "I feel like this....thereforeeee it's true." Hence my frustration at her "I don't see us buying a house together" mindset. No * * * * during all this. Yet for the past 14 months she was all for it! I know what I did was wrong and unfortunately, it pushed her big emotional insecurity issue. She pushed mine in Orlando, which is why I snapped and reacted in the untypical way I did. She struck a nerve. I did the same. But I did it a couple of times in Orlando. After that, she became jumpy and she (unfairly) saw this same behaviour in other, minor incidents. I did have some more childish spats but nothing like Orlando where I admit I was nasty. But she added these up. Then she added them onto incidents where nothing happened but she perceived it due to her being jumpy and thinking "uh oh, here he goes again!" So when it happened again on NY Eve, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I do believe it was worth her taking a week or two out to consider us but I agree, not enough to make her walk away. And as you can see from my posts, she has been caught in the middle and I believe she has realised at times we have something but as said, I hit her one big security issue and her defences - NOT her heart - is saying "run! run!" and so she does. She doesn't bring down her barriers, afraid I'll hurt her again and so when we meet, she doesn't give an inch (emotionally) and so thinks "I don't feel anything, we must be over". If she had tried, and still didn't feel anything, at least I'd respect that. Stop thinking about what you have done for a moment and think about what she may have been doing before all of this came about. Unsure what you mean here. I take it as meaning "did she have doubts and was looking for a way out?" If so, I disagree. That's not denial. We were going great until Orlando. If you mean since Orlando, then you have a point as since Orlando, she admitted she carried her doubts over as we never talked or resolved them. I really hurt her and she did start to think "if he cold do that, does he love me? Can I live with someone who treats me like that?" To make matters worse, by not talking about this, if I showed some dissatisfaction (like at the traffic) she would WRONGLY perceive abusive anger - because she was so wary and scared. So by the time NY Eve happened, it was the final straw. She is not a nutcase and she does not sound psycho like your ex but she does have deep insecurity and unresolved issues which may benefit from treatment (so would you if you married someone who had lived a lie and went to jail for serious fraud just 6 months after your wedding day and where everythng you'd believed for 6 years was totally fabricated). This is how I relate to your comment She compared me to some poor schmuck of her past! And like you, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. She has her fears and I was the first guy to give her what she needed and deserved. I lived a self fulfilling prophecy that came true: I was scare dof losing her that I pushed her away..........and lost her. Funny thing is, she's living hers. She admitted she always felt the good things, the big love, happened to others and that she would miss out. And here I was, with that love. Maybe she lived her own SFP here and threw me aside as a result. She is so scared of being hurt that when I said "you do love me" she replied "just 'cause someone loves you, doesn't mean you should take them back after hurting you". This is true but by the same token, it doesn't mean you have to end it on principle. Yes I flipped twice in two weeks and showed characteristics she swore she'd never put up with again but the rest of the time (and since) was fab. And she knows it. How sick would it be if she completes her SFP by giving chance after chance to some * * * * * who treats her like * * * * - just so she can confirm her SFP and say to herself "see! I was right not to give 2nd chances to anyone. I knew I didn't deserve the good things in life." You talk about ignoring the signs. I never had any until it was too late. In orlando, I should've talked more but I was so ashamed and she seemed to be better the next day that I just thought it's better to leave it be. She started to have a few doubts but she never told me. These were relatively minor, kinda just waiting to see if I proved them right/wrong. But then we had a few in December and over Xmas and it reignited everything. And what with them being condensed mainly over the holiday week, it seemed far worse than it was. By the time I was aware, she'd already jumped in the taxi on NY Eve and was on her way home. I am not romanticising here - we did have a fabulous relationship. It all could have been avoided by simple communication. I didn't talk about my fears and I bottled them up until they came out in the verbal assaults in Orlando and a few snaps since. She never talked and assumed too much, adding 2 with 2 and getting 7. If she just didn't love me anymore, it'd be so much easier to accept. But we had it all and she never fell out of love. To lose her over incidents that can be so easily rectified. To lose her when love is not an issue...it's just so, so, so wrong. Such a wasted love But I do hera ya. I do hear ya. In hindsight, the best thing would have been to have walked away as soon as she mentioned it in mid Jan. It may have shocked her out of her comfort zone to think " * * * *! He's gone, I miss him!" This is what snapped me out of my childish snaps - when I saw how serious she was about leaving. Instead, I hung around, I called, I wanted to put things right. Whenever she saw me, I'd try and talk but her head was so confused. It probably got to the point where she dreaded hearing from me, fearing another head mashing session. Most of all, subconsciously she may have thought "I don't need to step out from behind my barriers because he'll be there regardless." And now she's thinking "it's gone. No way back." Oh well. Thx for the post. I really identified with it.

Hi Coach, nice to hear from you. I think time is up now. I am losing my patience and feel it's a lost cause. I still maintain all I said, that she does love me but what can you do when she does what she's doing? We had 1 issue: my outbursts. Yet as a result, she got all negative due to the knock on effect: can I buy a house if he is going to snap? If I can't buy a house, what future do we have? etc Now, she just is just focussing on the negatives and making small issues seem huge and insurmountable. I accept I should be questioned over my snap in Orlando but n ot when she throws garbage like I mentioned in above posts. The latest? She has a door that needs to be shut gently due to loose plaster. She also insisted I take my shoes off at the door to prevent dirt on the rug. I did this most of the time. Very occasionally I'd just forget. I am only round her house once a week, But now she sees it as all the time and a clear indication I have no respect for a nice home and no respect for her. I know it upsets her but it's not a deal breaker! It just requires reinforcing new habits by way of gentle reminders. Nothing insurmountable! Yet to her it's the be all and end all. Weeks ago, when she told me how badly Orlando affected her, we agreed to talk about it. We never did. Each time I tried, she was tired, not in the mood or whatever. Then when I accepted the break up but went round to put her straight before I said goodbye. As it came clear she had misperceived and assumed wrongly, she wanted to rethink about us and we agreed to talk about any fears or thoughts to avoid this in the future. She never did. A week went by and I heard nothing. I assumed no thoughts had crossed hermind then on Sunday, she let some slip (rug and door examples above) and these were total garbage! Worse still, she hinted at others but wouldn't discuss them. It was always the Orlando bust up that caused her to question us. We seemed to put this behind us but now, minute issues are springing up and are weighted unfairly. Seems to me as soon as I knock one fear down, another springs up and I can't win in a situation like this.

On Tuesday, she came round somewhat, as I posted here, and admitted she jumped to conclusions on things, realised that our problems were minor and were easily avoidable. I went round today, as planned, but she is no nearer to making a decision than Tuesday. I don't expect her to come running back to me, all in love, within a short space of time so I am not unfair or unrealistic. But she is aware that if we are to get back on track she needs to start to bring her barriers down. The love is there but that to get to it, I have to regain her trust that I broke and that sent her into self defence mode. I accept this. This is why our two weeks of dating in early January didn't work because she was unwilling to take that step. As long as she needs and would like to try and resolve, I'll be here but as it is, her barriers mean she is unwilling to try. Despite the progress of Tuesday she started throwing all kinds of unfair comments at me: "I need to now if you are 'the one'?", "If you are 'the one' I'd want to buy a house with you now but I don't. I can't see us living together anytime soon" and "what if? What if it isn't possible to get back on track." And this last comment came AFTER she admitted that we have no major issues and that save for the past few months, the rest of our time was great! Of course she doesn't want ot buy a house! Not right now. I love her immensely but even I don't feel able to buy a house with her as it is at this moment in time! As it stands, I cannot see us living together in 2 years time because right now, we are not in a good place. Our situation is not strong. In 6 months though, who knows? 6 months ago we were looking at houses with a view to buy. She did have these feelings not so long ago. Additionally, how can anyone give her concrete proof they are 'the one'? I have pointed out that for the first 11 months she thought I was and she has that evidence. And also that we only derailed due to misunderstandings and miscommunication which is easily remedied. It's crazy she may be reluctant to accept the past year with me where she felt all this and try again - for fear of wasting time - yet would spend this same time and energy on a total stranger who may last just a few months. At least with me, she has the closest she will have to concrete evidence. But when I point any of this out, it falls on deaf ears. As she is the only one who can overcome her barriers, what can I do - not just to hopefully get us back on track but also for her, even if that is still to walk away. I am here if she wants to try but if she can't confront her barriers, there is no point in me being here because she won't open up. Even if I was magically transformed into the most perfect man in the world, she wouldn't see it. Is this a Mexican Stand Off?

Thx all, She did admit many fears were misconceived and she admits that she maybe got them out of her own barriers. I do know about letting her speak and have her view. During the first week or so, it was all me saying "you are wrong! This is how you really feel!" At the time, I never let her speak but then when I wanted her to, we never did. And then we broke up. However, since Sunday, I have let her speak. For the first time, she spoke more than I did. I honestly did just go round to say "you have me all wrong with these perceptions. Whether you believe it or not, I am telling you the truth." On Tuesday, I didn't go round to bludgeon her to my way of thinking. Out of panic, I did try that at the start but realised the more I battered the wall, the more she'd resist. I also knew that you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. It has sunk in, believe me, that trying too hard is counter productive. I disagree with 30Something about the guilt that she's really wanting to fool around. But I agree that she has some issues. Maybe she had a jealous/stalker ex or maybe she recognised her own behaviour and that she is the type to check up on people. Mnay of her misperceptions, stem from not resolving minor issues. Eg: when she saw me with my mates, she should have just asked if I was following her but no, she let it fester and when she saw me out again, she jumped to conclusions. Likewise, because she never told me she was very nervous about driving on the motorway so when we were late one time - and I was getting stressed - she thought I was judging her driving. And as the Orlando incident was less than a month old, she assumed I was going to get angry and abusive again. She admits her insecurity. She admits she has barriers to protect herself and she has been duped before, I was the first person to get past them and it scared her as it left her vulnerable. I gained her trust, even though she was wary and then I acted in such a way that hurt her and made her feel very stupid for letting me in and giving me the power to hurt her. I don't doubt SHE built the walls. I know this. And before we met. I just know that my actions made her pull them back up - after I helped her to bring them down. Considering her defence mechanism always told her "don't let anyone in, you'll be hurt" and considering I won her trust, despite her fears, she would have felt deeply hurt, embarrassed and stupid for trusting again. Her self fulfilling prophecy has come true and like all SFPs, she would have acted in such a way to bring it true. In this respect, it's the not talking about issues, letting them fester and jumping to the wrong conclusions - to prove that if she trusts, brings down her barries, she'll suffer. My SFP was that I'd lose her and so it proved. A few times, over things that would not usually faze me, I'd overreact and threaten to end it or tell her we're not working out etc. "I get from your posts is that you are a very 'intense' kind of a guy" My love is intense, yes. I have been intense recently because of what happened, all my fault and that I believe she does really love me etc. But no, I am not typically intense. I am not high maintenace, needy or clingy. I am not a smotherer. I have been recently, as I admit, as I watched myself throw it away and then listen to her question all we had and, at times, paint it all doom and gloom. But no, I am not normally intense. You guys are getting it all as I have no one else to talk to about it! ;-) As I told her, leaving me at any other time/for any other reason would be deeply upsetting but I'd accept it. What I've found impossible to accept in this situation is that just one day after telling me she loves me, just one day after our spat, she starts doubting she loves me and what we've had. This is total BS and I have been unwilling to let her go when convinced she really feels something. And no, I don't believe that is denial talking. I believe she has been in denial! I sensed her hiding behind bariers for protection. However, time and stress is taking it's toll. And that's not even mentioning my own pride and self respect. As I told her on Sunday and on Tuesday, I am not fighting for her anymore. I didn't expect her to reconsider and ask for more time. That was an unexpected bonus. And if she still goes, then that's it. I won't chase anymore. "Every time your partner raises an issue you dive in to try and sort it out." I am guilty here. I have never lied to her and I have great integrity and I never shirk an issue so yes, I like to tackle head on but I have learnt over these few weeks that logical, factual reasoning and a million and one facts are irrelevant when up against emotions. It was so simple in my head. When she said, just after NY Eve "where we good? Did I love you? Did you love me?" I'd pull out the text messages, the memories, how she cried when she told her parents how much she loved me etc. It frustrated me that she couldn't see this, or acknowledge her actions of a few days previously. However, I have learnt now that sometimes, you just have to leave them be. Which is what I have done. I have not seen or spoken to her since Tuesday. "Perhaps if you could relax a little you could allow her to articulate her view and show some respect for it even when you don't agree." I have done. I did this on Sunday and Tuesday. I went round on Tuesday to tell her like it is but I did do it respectfully, I asked for her feedback and her comments. It was a two way conversation. For the first time ever amd we covered so much ground and cleared up so many things. "If she wants this relationship, then as 30something suggests, she has to make some effort to get anything that blocks it out of the way." Already there. As said, I've stopped apologising and stopped trying to convince her. I respectfully pointed out that only she can bring these walls down and that like me, she has adjustments to make in order to have a successful relationship - with me or anyone else. Despite me believing she still feels for me, I am not a doormat. I have done all I can. I threw all the facts and memories at her. I've shown her how she feels, how I feel, how great we've been. I've chased and I've listened and now I've given her time. If she chooses to walk then I will accept it and not go back. You can't make the horse drink, remember. Even though I will believe she is misguided, I will accept - if not respect - her decision.

Thanks PassionatePisces, I know about not stalking but look at this interesting development. I posted last on Tues morning and I agree with what was said about not stalking her. Anyway, I decided "f*ck it! I am really angry about the BS she threw at me. I'm going round tonight and f*ck worrying about how I come accross - afer all, we're broken up. It can't get much worse!" So I went round and said "I'm not here to change your mind about how you feel about me. I am just mad that you she could think all this nonsense about me and say I am lying if I deny it. I've never lied to you and you know it. I want people to love or loathe me for who I am. If you're leaving me then you're going to do so knowing just exactly who/what/how I am". It turns out she had been wondering whether she'd done the right thing and also realised some of the things she said were unfair. She said she was glad to see me. I brought up the points I posted here and countered each one and provided evidence so she could see this. She accepted everything I said and also accepted I wasn't making excuses. She also admitted her own shortcomings, like how she has never talked about her issues but has let them fester and do the 2+2=5 thing. This was our first real talk - and about far more than what the unfair accusations I went to tackle her about. It was a breath of fresh air. It's just a shame it's happened when we officially came to an end. She also admits how if it had happened sooner, all this could have been avoided. She also admitted that none of the problems were big at all and that she let them develop. All in all, she isn't as definite about us ending anymore and has asked for more time. I have given her this and will do just that. I will not accidentally bump into her or call her. Interesting to note: During the week when she went all cold (having made her mind up) she was very reserved in her body language, kept her distance when sitting next to me, didn't feel inclined to kiss me etc. After we had this talk she sat closer to me, leant into me and when we stood up, she threw her arms around me and we kissed (close mouthed) as we continued to talk. SHE was actively kissing ME! On the lips! A lot! As well as on the cheeks and placing her forehead on mine whilst rubbing her nose against mine. Now, considering she thought the love had gone and that she felt that she now loved me as a friend only, her body seems to be telling quite a different story and betraying the true love I believe she really does feel but has suppressed. Not only has she gone all touchy feely but I can't imagine anyone behaving like this to someone if they don't feel more for them than just friendship. And she wasn't doing this before we "cleared the air" on many things. No scriptwriter in the world would go "They're just friends, let's have the woman repeatedly planting kisses on the other guy - even though she doesn't reciprocate his love for her." It seems to me that this close mouthed kissing is her way of being loving whilst still holding back from a safe distance. By close mouth kissing (no tongues) she can protect herself from opening up to me and letting me in - both emotionally and physically.

Kisisng and sex was not a barometer. I was just detailing what was happening. What you all say, I agree with. Thing is, she doesn't! I need your help now! I have a new development and dilemma. She officially ended with me on Friday night. She'd been avoiding me and I was getting bad vibes. Her basic line was what was summed up by Vampira and co: she feels pushed too far etc. What was so frustrating was that what she said mirroored the advice I got here yet she wouldn't see this. I pointed out what I knew from the start, and the advice here, that the love is still there, just that the trust isn't and she's withdrawn out of fear of it happening again. She'd say "they don't know mw. It's not that. I just feel I've been pushed too far and I can't take anymore!". And this is just what I told her was happening. She couldn't see but would restate it. Word for word. Everything I told her she'd deny and then paraphrase. She also said all the sexy stuff we got up to etc was just her trying. I think she is in denial. When you're trying, you don't get that magic "I'm interested" spark in your eyes, excited "so glad to speak to you" tone in your voice when on the phone. NEW DEVELOPMENT When I went to return her items on Sunday, we talked of rthe first time in our relationship. She gave her reasons for ending, the cited the obvious which was Orlando, how it broke her heart, and the subsequent spats. What threw me completely was that she also cited a load of things that just aren't true! I did counter these on the day but they didn't sink in and at one point said I was making excuses. Now this is coming from a 34yr old woman who knows have never lied. I have held my hands up when she's right so I don't live in denial but this was ridiculous. The explanations I give you below, I gave to her too. 1) Insecure She said from the start, she felt I was insecure and checking up on her because when she went on a night out with friends, I'd ask her what he planned to wear, where she would go, how her night went. I am amazed at this. I have always just been making conversation. I am just interested. Yes, I liked to imagine her in what she wore and how fab she'd look. Is that so bad? And why would I check on her right at the start, when we were so new and never knew if we'd even see each other the next week? I was taking each date as they came. I wouldn't risk that by being all creepy and insecure! Maybe she'd had really jealous boyfriends who have done this. I don't know. I only know it's not the case with me. 2) FOLLOWING HER/INSECURE. She claimed that, during our first month or so, she'd see me out when she was ona girly night out and that she felt I was keeping an eye on her. This is madness! We would bump into each other but this was right at the start - when we weren't even official going out together. She saw me with a mate after just our 2nd date. Then she saw me with another in November, after 4 dates or so and I think she saw me with on a stag night too. If I was going to stalk her, it wouldn't be right at the start when I didn't even know if we'd see each other again. She said "I never saw you before we dated" but that's because you never knew me. I don't remember seeing her either or her friends or her model/colour of car. But I notice them now. As for always seeing me in the same pub at the same time, that is where I usually end up. And always at around 10 - 10.30pm as we start in another bar and work our way round. That is why she never saw me in there at 8pm. It's why she never saw me in other bars she frequented - because I never went in them! If she saw me in every bar she went in, shed have a point. Also, If she never saw me in this particular bar before, then how did I end up getting her number? It's because were there at the same time! Yes, I admit it, when I was out I did look out for her as I knew she'd be out but I NEVER planned it so I could check up on her. There was nothing sinister going on! If there was, why did I never follow her AFTER we were confirmed as boy and girlfriend? It doesn't make sense to check up on someone BEFORE I invest time, energy and emotion in them! If I ever was going to check up, it would be WHEN I am emotionally involved and scared of being hurt. But this never happened because I never wanted to check up on her. 3) INSECURE. She said I showed signs. I deny the above but admitted there were points when I was. She was freaked about people who have short term jobs and for medical reasons, I'd changed jobs twice since I met her and then I was made redundant. This serioulsy pushed her buttons and I WAS scared she'd leave. Prior to that, I'd only had 2 jobs in 10 yrs but she didn't know that - and what with her ex changing jobs, being sacked and eventually turning to crime, she was really scared by this so yes, I was insecure. It's what drove my stress and caused me to explode in Orlando. However, when I would ask her if she loves me or whether she were staring at a guy. That really wasn't insecurity. I'd find it a bit rude to be talking and have her looking elsewhere as if not interested. I am used to it now but at first I wasn't and I called her on it. Also, I have always liked reassurance. Her too. That is why even though we both knew we loved each other, if one of us was about to hang up the phone with out saying "I love you" we'd say "excuse me! Haven't you forgotten to say something?" I DID trust her. I wouldn't have been with her otherwise. Like her, I always had that element of "what if" and I never blinded myself to it as people leave their partners everyday for someone new. Yes, if she wore skimpier, sexy clothes, it increased the chances of guys coming up to her. I knew this but it never really bothered me. 4) JEALOUS. I wasn't phased by guys chatting her up. I was always surprised when they didn't. I trusted her and looked forward to the details. I wanted the full details not out of jealousy but because I found it amusing. Yes, I would always make sure by asking if she fancied them but I always trusted. I even used to say to say "Only joking" or "I am half joking". And in the autumn, I even told her I would draw a smiley face on a ping pong bat so I could hold it up to let her know I am joking. ONE time I DID get a bit miffed about her clothes and that was in the summer. Shewent out a few times in some really skimpy tops, short skirts and sexy heels. I only felt a teeny bit miffed and only because at the time, she never wore these outfits with me. I saw her in them just once. It wasn't a big deal by any stretch and I certainly didn't think she were trying to pull. I just felt like I was missing out a bit, that was all. 5) GOOD TOGETHER. She said we weren't good for another. Even though we'd be unable to go a day without texting and ringing each other. Of course we were good. Otherwise we wouldn't have had such a fab initial 11 months - despite her crazy assumptions about me following and checking up. We wouldn't have been so keen to say I love you all the time, swap texts and phone one another. She wouldn't have blossomed from a reserved woman into the open and loving, spontaneous, full of love woman that she did if I didn't have a positive effect on her. And she wouldn't have had a similar effect on me. Time flew. We could be serious and we could be goofy. We would spend hours inbed, We fired each other up. We sought each other for love, comfort and when we needed to feel better. We were there for each other. Both trusted and both never lied. Both respected and both loved immensely. We were fab together. We hit some hard times. I was misguided in trying to keep us together. I was seriously misguided and it resulted in the Orlando event and a few others. We never talked about them or handle them right but that doesn't mena we weren't good. 6) SOMETHING ELSE. When I said, we'd be going strong without the Orlando event, she was just negative saying, "if it wasn't that, something else wouldhave happened" and this pisses me off because up until then, we were very happy. Now she's pouring doom and gloom everywhere and to assume bad things would definitely happen is unfair! 7) FLARE UPS. I had one major flare up in Orlando. I was nasty. SInce then there were the 3 others mentioned above. Minor events. Sometimes I felt she was wrong (hence the attitude fromme) and other times I was just plain wrong - it happens! Every couple has these. BUT..........she cited 4 or 5 incidents where she was convinced I would get aggressive and she was terrified yet this was a million miles from the truth! Eg: a month after Orlando, we were driving somewhere. We were running late, the traffic was murder and the weather was horrendous. I was getting agitated. My foot was tapping, I was huffing and puffing etc yet I said to her, calmly, "I am not stressed at you. I am not angry at you. I am just concerned that we aren't going to get there in time due to the conditions. It isn't you. It isn't you". Yet she told me on Sunday that she felt I was having a go at her, at her driving and that I was about to explode! How much clearer could I have been? She said driving in those conditions was new to her and important for her confidence - but I never knew this! She never said a word! Another time, she pointed out an ex. I was teasing her yet she felt I was getting angry! There are others too but you get the idea. I admit I have been wrong at times but these examples ar ejust ludcirous. She admits she has been on edge since Orlando but she never raised any of this so we could sort out. Now that I did mention it, it didn't make a jot of difference! If I am going to be found guilty - I want it to be right! 8) ARGUMENTS. We've never argued. Never had an issue we were at loggerheads over. Yes, there'd be the odd spat where I'd sound off but that would be it. Most of my reasoning for our arguments has been down to the stress I was under and the poor tactic I used to handle it - which was the wrong thing to do. Sometimes I thought she were in the wrong. However this does not excuse every spat I had. I am not perfect and sometimes - just sometimes - there was no valid reason for doing what I did. 9) DOUBTS ABOUT US. Then she told me she'd had doubts since Orlando. Understandable really but she never talked. And if you don't talk you don't resolve. And most of what she's said has been a million miles from the truth! What with my job changes and job loss, not comfy with introducing me to her parents due job change, getting the wrong ideas about me following her and the Orlando incidents - all of which were never resolved, is it any wonder she had doubts about us or moving in? If none of these happened and she had doubts then fair enough but they did and most of these issues were very sensitive for she and so it's natural to be so wary. 10) TALKING Most of the issues she raised I have valid reasons for and most weren't even true. Orlando, the house and some spats I have no excuse for. But none were major. None insurmountable. All could have been sorted by talking. So easy to solve - not like gambling or adultery! It isn't a sign that we are bad for each other. People make mistakes. My main mistake was trying to shield her from the stress. She kept things hidden and they festered so much that she saw things which weren't there. What is so frustrating is that there has never been a major problem with us. All could have been solved by simple communication and most were not even true! SO........... DILEMMA I did tell her this On Sunday but she didn't seem to take it in. As said, she said at one point I was making excuses and also believes I am in denial on some things. This angers me as I am willing to let her go but I want her to know the truth. I don't want her telling herself or family and friends untruths. I've always said to people "If you're going to like/love me or hate me, then do it for who I am." Of course I want her back. I want her to miss me and realise she made a mistake. I also know that crowding her and going round/sending emails is only going to push further away and make me seem needy and controlling. It is important to me that she believes me and I am now angry that she could think that way about me. After orlando, I can understand but pre Orlando, I can't. Maybe these issues weren't big before Orlando but after it, she looks back and makes them bigger than they were, I don't know. But as said, I don't care if people like or loathe me, as long as they are justified and I want to send her these points again, in an email. Or pop round. Even though we discussed them on Sunday, there was a lot of emotion and other things and I feel it needs reiterating. Maybe after a few days rest she'll be more open and accepting. Email seems good because I'm not in her face. But in person, I can actually have a two way conversation. And I won't lie, if I can negate 90% of her issues then maybe that will greatly increase the chances of her realising she made a mistake and come back to me. What should I do? Should I raise it or have I done as much as I could and retreading won't make a difference? If I should do it, how: email or in person? Tomorro or after a week? Just remembered, another frustrating thing, as we were parting, she was crying profusely and was saying "I will miss you so much! I love being with you, your'e great, you're...". I am STILL convinced she loves me. And her saying all this has never been said when I've been dumped before. I find it hard to believe she'd be like this and say those things if she truly didn't feel anything. Anyway, your advice please!

Hi Kate111, It's all in "Overcoming Emotional Shutdown Thru Fear" in the Relationships forum. Thx

This has been one of my issues too. Especially as we have supposedly been so open and with no secrets. Not that I should need telling in order to avert behaviour but if she did, I guarantee the other, smaller incidents wouldn't have happened. Everytime she was in the wrong, I'd call her on it instantly and let her know just how I felt. It really cuts that she could keep this from me for months? How cold she have asuch a concern and not want to be honest and sort it out? And I needed to know not just to avoid further similar behaviour but so I could make amends. Instead she let it fester, which isn't healthy. Even if I never acted that way again, it festered. And there was me, every other week, reminiscing about our great holiday and how I'd like to go back!!!! Not to sound like a broken record but even with this festering, she has been showing incredible signs of love since Orlando - and that it was still very strong. Yet, after the silly NY Eve incident, she even questions how she felt and the entire holiday in Orlando was doom and gloom (despite the outburst happening mid 2nd week). It's frustrating as I know WHY she's gone like that but it's just not true. If she leaves, she leaves but I want it to be for truthful reasons and not for false. I don't want her rewriting history and saying the love wasa never there. To make it worse, on our last date on Sat 21st Jan, she kept bringing Orlando. The nice waiters, the food, the hotel, the theme parks, how she'd do it differently etc. Was she playing games? I thought Orlando was a no go subject? Was she trying to force herself to get over it? Was she tryting to bond with me? I don't know but it felt creepy and weird considering how "I broke her heart and it never mended fully" and that it was full of bad memories as a result. One thing is for certain, after NY Eve and she told me about Orlando, we agreed to talk about it. Guess what, we still haven't. Granted, when dates were going well, I kept schtum but every other time I've asked, she's never been in the mood or it's been too late in the evening or she doesn't want to spoil the good vibe we have. If I push it, I piss her off or seem controlling - and she won't be in a good frame of mind to talk. If I leave it, it goes unresolved and these major doubts she has over us are getting stronger.

Ice, You are going to have to put your money where your mouth is, and SHOW her, NOT TELL her, that she should trust you in this relationship again. Thx. I didn't want to hear it. But it's true. Funny thing is, I have given her so much. She told me this. I made her feel like never before and yet all that can be undone by one outburst. I feel so bad. Oh I know about looking in. It's all I've done. But even if I became Mr Perfect overnight, the way she's been feeling, she might not be able/willing to even notice. That is what's the killer. It's outta my hands. Everything that happened, save for the outbust in Orlando were minor. HOWEVER........ What you say is true. When I now look back, I can see how it will have been percvieved far worse than how it actually was. As I've been saying "NY Eve was so insignificant" she will have been saying "it's the last straw" I concur with everything you say, it just doesn't help me! What if she won't let me show her and regain her trust? As for saying "whatever honey, I'm here if you need me" what about being a doormat? No one (least oif all women) respect anyone who is a doormat and is willing to hang about endlessly on the off chance they'll come back - and to let them be treated that way. We started dating again. Week one was fab - surprised us both. It was like old times, sparkles in her eyes, intimate contact, excited phone calls. She even pounced on me sexually. Week 2 was great until the Sat night (21st) when she went distant on me. She didn't grab my hand or lean in (like she idd on other dates) but once in a while, I'd get some glimpses of intimate touching from her. It was as though she was supressing her body language but it came out once in a while depsite her efforts. Saw her Tues night but not heard from her since. Dunno where the Hell we are. Has she got cold feet - scared of being hurt? Met anyone new? I daren't ask as I don't want to crowd her! Lord knows what you make of this but I do agree with all you've said.

Excellent. I have been there. I still am. Funny really as I spent 30 mins driving to her house.........then past.........then back again. Wondering whether to give her space - she wants some, it may make her miss me instead of crowding her, show her I'm not a doormat, punish her for not calling etc or whether I call in - and let her know how pi**ed off I am with her treatment and that I won't take it. In the end, I saw her lights go out a sshe went to bed and I missed the chance. Looks like it was right judging by this post. Thing is, what do I do? My situation is a bit different. I made a post - "overcoming barriers thru fear" in this forum. We were on the verge of split up. She was mentally prepared. But then we started dating. It's all documented in the post. Week 1 of dating was amazing. So much progress. Sparkle back in her eyes, touching, kissing etc. Week 2 started great - excited calls and texts, mid week date - but then by Sat (21st Jan) she went distant. She didn't grab my hand or lean in (like she did on other dates) but once in a while, I'd get some glimpses of intimate touching from her. It was as though she was supressing her body language but it came out once in a while depsite her efforts. Saw her Tues night but not heard from her since. Dunno where the Hell we are. Has she got cold feet - scared of being hurt? I daren't ask as I don't want to crowd her! Now she said on Sat, she is out with her friend. I am working Fri night so can't see her and I am away on a course the weekend after. This is the 2nd Sat night with her friend in 3 weeks! She never would have gone out with friend on a Sat when we were fine - let alone 2 outta 3! I am angry at this. Is it dispresect? Does she not want me? Is she tring to test me? Is she after space? If I give in - am I being a doormat (thus lose her respect)? If I confront her - am I being a jerk and getting all needy on her? Lord knows what you make of this but I do agree with all you've said. So what do I do? As said, as we agreed to give it a go, I am confused why the back tracking. I want to talk to her to make sure she doesnt' let fear get to her but then I am annoyed as she hasn't been "making the effort" like she agreed we should. Part of me wants to give her space but then I am angry that she could treat me with such disrespect. PS: I am also worried as the longer I leave it, the more removed I get. Chances are, I could fall out of love and move on. I don't want it to happen but to protect myself, my mind may just say enough's enough.

Thx Confessoress. What you said sums up what I said in my lengthy post - but in a fraction of the time ;-) I truly don't think I would behave like that again. I never had before and am sure it was the stress I was under at the time. Even if it wasn't, it's scared me enough to never do so again and I am willing to seek help to ensure it doesn't repeat. I believe you are spot on in your summary and this is what's infuriating. Everyone sees it but her, it seems. And as I mentioned, the crux is that I am unsure how best to handle the situation. We've talked a bit, which has got us back dating and shared good times as my diary shows but this hasn't cleared it all and I am wary of talking more deeply, dragging up bad memories in case it pushes her further away. As I mentioned, she got so negative that every little incident was blown out of proportion, she only focussed on the bad and rewrote our entire relationship. If I didn't have proof in the text messages, cards, love letters and photos she would swear I was making things up! At times, out of frustration, I've wanted to give her tough love and say "I know it's a risk but so is any relationship. No one knows the future. This is how you feel, here's the proof. Deal with it or lose me as I won't hang around forever!" But would this push her away even more? I stupidly used a false ultimatum on NY Eve and look where that got us! She already feels like she's out on a limb by trying again so if I threaten her with "I could be off unless....." then that might send her scampering to the hills once more as she won't want to open up to me to me only to see me leave and hurt her again! Yet the more I leave it and don't push, the more chance she has of staying in that detached, protective zone and thinking "nah, it's gone." See how frustrating this is?!?!? The time issue you advise, I understand but it's so frustrating when we take a step back, a step forward, a step back again. Maybe that is me being selfish but my emotions are like a yo yo at the moment. I've hardly eaten, lost inches around my waist and the mental stress is relentless. Even if I am right and that we can be the most pefect couple ever and nehappy for ever more, if she stays so wary and detached that she'll walk away before she realises all of this. Even I've been tempted to walk away, telling myself I am flogging a dead horse. And I know how fab we are together! Heaven knows what she can be thinking. Worse still, she's admitted that she's very proud and defensive. Even if she woke up 3 weeks later, realised I was the love of her life, she wouldn't call me to try again. She snapped at me not so long ago. I walked away and said "call me when you've calmed down". She watched me walk and later admitted she really wanted me to come back but that she couldn't bring herself to call or run after me - in case I rejected her and made her look foolish for trying. In short, I'm afraid to push and I'm afraid to sit back. And when I get the signals on our dates and I don't take them, it could be a lost opportunity but if I do - and she rejects - then it puts a dampener on things and highlights the tension of our situation. What do you reccommend?