LostInMyThoughts

I'm sorry to hear that you're in a rutt right now, and that there isn't much too look forward too. Since you're in a rutt, have you thought about what you could try thats new? Maybe take singing lessons? Or try out for a play? Self Defense Class? I think trying some new things might help you double fold; one you'll be doing something new, and potentially exciting and fun, and two you might just meet someone special. I think getting attached early isn't necessarily a bad thing; it could mean that you let yourself be vunerable, that you're not guarded and you don't have things that keep you from committing yourself to a relationship. I see those as positive qualities. The pain and hurt you feel when someone you care about leaves is natural. I know it hurts a lot, its terrible feeling, and I wish that we never had to go through it. What do you like to do that makes you feel good?

Do you think you might be trying to run away from your problems? Have you looked into teaching english in a foreign country? I don't know about Japan, but in South Korea, there are a number of programs available that offer a stipend to teach for a year. I don't know what the requirements are, and my understanding is that you don't necessarily need to speak the local language.

Yeah we had/have our share of problems in our relationship. I've not told my wife to make a decision, and I don't think its up to her. She'll know when she is ready if she wants in or she wants out. I don't believe its my duty to make her choose. We do bring up a lot of issues in counseling, and we work through them; which to me, gives me hope that we could work things out. But one hour a week? I don't think that is nearly enough time to devote to saving our marriage. I tried to get her to spend 3 hours a week, every other day talking to me about issues, but it was too much for her. I think she's okay with working on our relationship in counseling, but anything after that is too much. She hasn't given me many options. At this point, my choices are to divorce her, or to continue to work on our relationship haphazzardly.

Yeah she's not in love with me anymore, but she's not sure she wants things to be over. We're separated now, and in counseling trying to work things out. I'm trying to work on what would keep my wife from moving back in at the end of our seperation. This stuff is hard for her to talk about, which makes it difficult for me to see any chance of her moving back. A lot of the time I'd ask her a question about it and she'd respond by saying she hadn't thought about it. It's hard for her to think about our problems, and to talk about them. That doesn't leave much hope for us saving our relationship. I guess if after the next few weeks, she realizes she wants me in her life, maybe that might make her work a little on addressing these issues. Its like she's half-in and half-out, and right now the half-our part is making it hard for her to work on saving the relationship. I know I can't change that, but I don't know if I'm willing to stick around with no sign of hope either. We still get together and have a good time, but I guess that doesn't mean much.

I'm having a hard time trying to save my marriage. Every time I feel like I make a little bit of progress something happens and things get worse. My wife has lost a lot of her emotional attachment to me, and I'm not sure that it can be fixed. There is still some feelings there, but its not enough to make her want to put more effort into our relationship. She's not sure if she still wants to be in a marriage, and what sucks is that there is nothing I can do about it. We agreed to have about 1/2 a month of no contact starting today. I guess she thinks that hopefully it'll help her see if she wants to remain married to me, or rather see what its like to not have me in her life. At this point I don't know what to do. If this doesn't really motivate my wife into "wanting" to save our relationship I dont know what will. Part of me just wants to end things now, because it doesn't seem like there is much hope of us getting back together.

Sorry, I had assumed it was anger about something. Maybe before apologizing to your mom, you should take some time to think about whats bothering you. Then you can explain a little better. Don't necessarily say that the reason you yelled at her is because you're stressed out, but rather say that you're really stressed and you're not sure why you yell, and that you're sorry that you took it out on your mom by yelling at her because it was wrong, and she's not the reason your stressed. It's a subtle difference because now you're owning up to your mistake, not just making an excuse for it. Good luck.

First off, you're not a horrible person! We all get angry, and that is absolutely okay. You're not acting like a 13 year old. You sound like you're acting like a person who is genuinely angry about something. It sounds like you're developing into an anger/shame cycle (something I excell at...). Basically you get angry about something (college or stress), let that anger out (yelling at your mom), feel bad about how you deal with your anger (apologizing), then shame yourself (i hate myself, I'm a horrible person), then you probably repress your anger, until it explodes again into this cycle. Time to stop. Its okay to get angry. So what is it that you're angry about? Now that you've got a clear head, think about what it is that you are getting angry about. Until you can figure that out and work on it, you'll keep getting angry about it. Thats okay, but now how should you deal with your anger. I can imagine that your mom might be pushing you into finding out whats wrong, and you eventually let off steam by yelling at her. I suggest trying a new approach. Maybe go into your room and punch the hell outta your pillows. Or throw them on the ground, or go for a run. Or my favorite dance. Something physical to get up all that adrenaline out of your system (by the way when you get angry, you trigger your fight-or-flight reflex system which kicks in adrenaline. Not using that adrenaline, it turns into a toxin!). As for an apology, you're right saying sorry over and over again, and letting things happen, isn't much of an apology. So here is what I recommend. When you are calm, come up to your mom, and be honest with her. You're really angry about something, and you keep expressing that by yelling at her. You're not sure what you're angry about, but that you're going to find out. If she pries, and it makes you mad, tell her you need some time to blow off steam. Walk away and release that anger. Then come back and continue talking to her.

Hey Laura, I know where you're coming from, and I know this seems like a difficult time. I'm sorry that you're feeling down, and fed up about things--and its okay to feel that way. I bet that being told that "this is just normal, it'll pass" doesn't help, cuz sure things will get better, but what about right now? To me, meeting people, and dating are things that just don't happen magically. You've got to go out and make it happen. It's really nice to have someone special in your life to share your feelings with, to go out and have a fun time with, and who will take care of you if you get down. I think before that can happen, you've got to look at taking care of yourself first. If you look to others to take care of your needs, you're setting an impossibly high standard. It could also make it tough for a person to be in a longterm relationship as well. And you're not a freak because you haven't had a boyfriend yet. Self confidence can only come from inside you. Others, especially family can shake it, and tear it down, but in the end your self perception only comes from you. Think about what your strengths are as a person. It sounds like you are a real caring person because you always make yourself available for your friends. What do you do that you kick butt in? Sports, Music, Drama, Using up cell phone minutes? I think a majority of us don't handle stress as well as we ought to. Whats your way to handle it? Personally I like lifting weights, or playing this silly dancing game. Have you thought about seeing a counselor? You could try your school's guidence counselor, but I know at my highschool, the counselors were worthless, and in college only a career counselor was available. If its the same case at your school, try going to a private counselor. I think it might help. Just someone to talk with.

Yep thats is a pretty good summary what happened. I'll know in a few more days if she is being honest with me. So for now, I'll assume she is innocent and take her word for it. It was her idea to move out, but my idea for a seperation. We came up with some ground rules: No dating other people, going to counseling once a week, meet once or twice a week to date. I discussed the cheating as best as I could. You're right, the affair came about because some of her needs weren't being met. I guess I've come to terms with this, and thats why I can continue to try and be with her. My wife does not like communicating her negative feelings and thoughts to me, so we are working on it. She doesn't spend (in my opinion) as much time thinking about what is keeping her away as I would want her too. Now I send her questions in advance to try and get her to think about it. We're in marriage therapy once a week. I'm doing my part by working on the facets of my personality that were tough to deal with. My wife is understanding that she represses her feelings and is working on expressing them to me. We've now tentatively agreed to call each other more often, specifically to talk about our issues. Before, I'd call her out of the blue, and we'd get into it, but my wife wouldn't be in the "right frame of mind" which would make her get frustrated, and thus be unproductive. I understand her frustration too. If I just got home from work, or from being out running around, I wouldn't want to get into some deep emotional converstaion. Now, since its preplanned I'm hoping to get more out of our talks. At the end of the seperation, we're going to see how things stand. My hope is that she'll want to move back in and see how things work out. My fear is that she still will be wishy-washy (one thing she excells at), and I will decide to end it. I still get a little anxious about the end of our relationship; but if I focus too much on what happens 5 months from now, I'm not focusing on what I could be doing now to hopefully effect a better outcome.

She has been honest with me in the past when I talked about my mistrust. It's just on the surface, her story doesn't seem plausible. That's not to say her response wasn't true. You're right about not worrying about pushing her away. I will be direct with my mistrust, and allow her to respond. We have been having conversations about how our relationship is going. To some degree, we both want out, but we both want in. That puts us in a tough situation. I want out because I feel like my personal life is on hold. I'm studying french, taking music lessons, and exploring other artistic endeavors to bide the time. Its just I miss the affection, love, support and the fun we have together. I know I can't get those from her at this present moment, so part of me wants to end it now, so I can move on and look for a new partner to fulfill those needs (wanting a girl to go out with on a friday night isn't bad is it?) My wife is partly out because for a long while, things between us were bad. Now that she is "on her own" things are getting better for her. Why would she want to come back to a situation that was unhealthy? Part of our work is show her that things at home are changing, but its not that simple. You're partly right here, but I think your response is more emotionally based. To help learn from what happened, I read a book on affairs called "Not Just Friends." One of the most starting things I learned was that about 50% of relationships will have to stuggle through one or both partners being unfaithful. Another thing I learned is how easy an affair can start. All it takes is a friendly ear to listen to your troubles, which builds intimacy, which can easily change to affection. You start to feel good about talking to this person, and so you unknowingly drop hints that you're interested. The other person might pick up on them, and respond. Soon you have a forbidden relationship. The author defines an affair as being the time you aren't honest with your partner about your relationship with this other person. Now our dynamic. I grew up in a home where my dad was verbally abusive towards our family. I learned that it was okay to verbally deal with my anger. After all its just words right? I'm not actually hitting my wife, right? WRONG! Any abuse, verbal, sexual, physical, is wrong, and no one should ever put up with it. My wife grew up in a home with two alcoholic parents. Over time she learned to repress her negative feelings and emotions, and avoid conflict all together. She saw herself as a peacemaker in her family. So in our relationship, instead of talking about the behaviors I exibhited that bothered her, she just buried it, and built up resentment towards me. At some point this resentment gets to be too much. She never told me directly (though not necessarily saying I would have listened) what was wrong, and nothing changed. Eventually she was shutting down emotionally towards me. Meanwhile she was talking about her troubles to a male coworker, who was in a "similar situation." And they developed a close bond, because he "understood her" and all that other crap. She started lying about where she was, and met with him, and so on and so forth. Yes cheating was a decision she made, and no one else made her do it, but I don't believe that she did it to get back at me.

Easier said than done, I'm afraid. I still have strong feelings for my wife, and I believe that we can work out our differences. We're doing the best we can to try and make it work ie: not dating other people, seeing a marriage counselor once a week, meeting and talking about issues separately, etc. It's not so much a plan, but for me, her moving back in, is the ideal situation. We gave ourselves 6 months to try and work on things, and thats what this situation is about. We're working through what is keeping her away, and such, but it may not be possible for us to get back together. In a way yes, she does. She is sorry that I was hurt, but affairs are a tricky business. She didn't set out with cheating in her heart, just the dynamics in our relationship caused it to happen.

My wife and I are separated, and have been for a little over a month now. She still deposits her money into my bank account, and I transfer it to her's. Problem is her check card is taking money out of my account. She's going transfer the money to pay me back, which is fine, but because her charges are coming out of my account, I have access to see what she is doing. I noticed that had a charge for $24 at an IHop in a city 85 miles north of where she lives. I asked her about it, and she said that she just felt like driving, and had quite a bit to eat. I believed her, but something about the story doesn't sit right. I also saw a charge for $30 at Azteca. I figured it was dinner for two, and so I asked her about it. She said it was for herself, and I guess if you tack on a lot of drinks, that's probably true. She got a little defensive because of my questioning her dining habits. I understand her frustration and can see that this might be too much, but my wife cheated on me, and as a result trusting her is difficult. I'd rather be direct with her, and have her tell me the truth (even if it means she still having an affair), then too assume the worst. Our relationship is really fragile, and while we're trying to patch things up, I can see this as pushing her away. Am I going to far? How should I approach my misstrust? Thanks everyone!

Thanks for the advice nsbguy and gettingoverit. Obviously I want her to change, and you're right that I can't make her change. One thing I would like is for her to acknowledge my feelings. We're in counseling and we're working on communicating effectively. I shoudln't be too hard on her, because expressing empathy is a new thing for us. Your perspective on her exploring her freedom makes sense. I'm using this time to take advantage of doing things I could never do before, though to be honest, there wasn't much I felt like I couldn't do while I was living with my wife. Maybe I'm wrong to look towards my wife to try and meet my needs right now given our current situation. She's not ready for that responsibility.

Last night was a pretty tough night for me. My wife and I have been separated now for 1 month, trying to work out our problems in our relationship. I called her lastnight to talk about her day, and what not, and I heard static in the background, so I knew she was out on the road. I asked her what she was up too, more curious than anything, and she told me she was following some friends over to another friends house to party. I started to feel bad inside about this. My wife works early in the morning, and wants to be in bed by 10am. So this seemed out of character. I was glad she was going out and having a good time, but on the other hand it bothered me. I know why it bothered me; for most of our relationship I've always felt like my wife has treated me as less of a person than other people. She'd do really nice things for other people, and not do any nice things for me. I've tried talking to her about this in the past, but she'd just get defensive and say "Well I cook you dinner, clean up around the house. I don't do that for other people." She's right, and I've tried not to take that for granted, though I'm sure in her mind I have. She has done a few nice things for me, and I've always tried to show my appreciation for them, but I don't know I feel like I'm never in her thoughts. She would visit her friends at work go out for coffee, and I said to her, how great it would be if she did that with me. 4 months went by and nothing, so I asked her to come do it a few more times, and finally she came by to see me. It was great, and I really enjoyed it. Since then, she hasn't come by again to meet me. She's busy, so I guess thats a good reason. It would be nice if she said something like "I really want to come visit you at work, but I just can't find the time." Instead I'm left to feel like i'm never in her thoughts. For me, its not hard to imagine doing nice things for her. I send her flowers at work, on random days for no reason just to show her that I care. I told her how great it would be to get balloons on my birthday, but its never happened. She's a real stickler about keeping appointments, and when she says she'll do something she sticks to it. Well we made a date to go hang out afterwork and she was tired and decided to cancel it. In a way it was good because she was asserting herself (her biggest weakness), but she also said that "You know I don't normally do this. I don't like to cancel on people." That really hurt, because I felt like that made me worth a lot less to her than random strangers. So I know my feelings might have deeper roots in some other issue, but I also know that they are valid. To her credit she sees how much it hurts me to feel like this, and yeah I know that I'm the one who is in control of my feelings, but its like, if you care about someone why wouldn't you make the effort to change your behavior? Back to last night, I explained that what she was doing, wasn't bad, but that I felt like she would never do something like this with me. She would never go and hang out on a work night, without complaining about getting to bed early. Heck even talking on the phone with me past 9:30 is tabboo. If she can make these exceptions for other people, why can't she do it for me? When I confronted her and said that I feel like crap, she got angry and said "Then why do you put up with it?" I asked her what she meant by that, but she dodged teh question. She then had to go cuz she was at her destination. I wanted to talk some more, cuz I had no closure, and from the conversation she didn't understand what I was saying, nor had any empathy for my feeligns. I guess I've learned that right now, while this whole "empathizing" thing is new for us, if I feel bad, I should wait till a more convienient time to bring it up so I have a better chance of closure. I wish she would have said something like "I know that my behavior affects you like this. I'm sorry. I'd like to talk about it later tonite, or tomorrow morning. I'd talk now, but I don't want to be rude." Something that shows she understood and cared about my feelings. I ended working myself into a frenzy, and discharged it by playing DDR. After a cold shower I realized that ultimately I was responsible for my feelings, but I deserved to have a partner that wants to treat me like a special person. Am I wrong to feel this way?

What he's doing is emotional infidelity. It is cheating. Not physical cheating, but cheating. Some don't think it's as bad. Others think it's worse. I'm not sure. Seems like there is something missing to this story, IMO. Sure his side of the story is missing.

I think that divorce might be too drastic. An ultimatum is a good first step, but you'll need to come up with a plan. A plan for if your husband agrees, and a plan if he does not. The ultimatum seems straightforward, either his relationship ends, or you will leave. While there is no easy way to tell him this, I feel it in the relationships best interest to do it in a civil and calm fashion. Don't try and talk with him when he comes home from work. Our minds are simple, but they need some time to recharge/unwind from a days work. It's weird thing about us, but after that period of time, we're ready for anything. Explain your thoughts about his behavior with this other woman, and explain how this makes you feel. Try to do it without being adversarial. If he retorts with something like "Its all in your mind" or "Nothing is going on" he is getting defensive. That means he feels under attack, and he's not considering your feelings. Don't bother stepping up your attack, because at this time its pointless. As calm as you can do, tell him your ultimatum. That either he ends his relationship with this woman, completely, or you are going to leave. If I were you I'd leave the room without saying another word, and give him time to think. Of course if he doesn't get defensive, and instead says something like "You know, you're right. The way i've been acting, I can understand why you would feel this way." That means he understands your feelings, and you may be able to work things out without resorting to an ultimatum. If he does agree to your terms, I would also add in that you would like to go to Couples Therapy. Not to punish him, or to repair the demage that he's done, but to learn from this, and to figure out why his relationship with this person was so special. If he cuts this woman out cold turkey, you'll need to step up and fill the void in his life. It might be easy to say "well he did me wrong so why should I do this for him" but you need to be a bigger person and be there for him. Counseling will help address some of his issues with the marriage in a safe environment. You will have to be ready to hear things that might hurt, like he's lost passion for you, or that this person is more femine or other things. Again I'm not excusing his behavior, but unless his needs are addressed, you can't grow into a more loving and happy couple. If he doesn't agree to your terms, you should be ready to leave either that night, or the next day. From there, hopefully he'll make contact with you and you'll have a chance to talk things over. You need to be firm with your decision, but not closed to discussion. At this point, there is not much you can do for the relationship other than hold on to hope that he'll come around. Thats where I'm at now, and I'll honestly tell you it sucks! There are lots of resources for seperation that can help you. Definitely use this time to seek therapy and to grow as a person (which ironically will help your relationship). The caveat to all this is important. If you feel like your husband might get violent when you give him an ultimatum, don't bring it up. I don't want you to stay in this situation any longer than you have to, but your safety is far more important. You will need to come up with a different plan to do this safely.

Not to hijack this thread... I feel this is a common misconception about marriage. IMO there are no "shoulds" in a marriage. Marriage is what you and your spouse make of it. To one couple marriage might mean never ever looking at a person of the opposite sex, while another couple might be okay with each other checking other people out. If a person grew up in a household with no privacy, privacy might be something that is very important to them. They may place a high value on their privacy, and so such an intrusion could be catastrophic to the relationship. For this theoretical person, I would hope that they could communicate this to their partner/spouse so their partner could see the importance of it. I agree with BillyJean that Openess and Honesty are important in a relationship, but I don't that it and privacy has to be mutually exclusive. I don't need to read my wifes emails (she was having an emotional affair), but I do expect her to be honest when I ask her about what she was doing and with whom. Then again, I feel the need to check our cell-phone records to see if she's been in contact with her affair partner. Yes that is an invasion of her privacy, but when I found she's not talked to him, it gives me a little more reason to trust her. My feelings on privacy are ignoring the situation presented by the OP. In this case, she had suspected that something wasn't right. So she felt like she had to comfirm it. In the context of the situation, I believe her actions weren't in trying to harm the relationship. I personally think not knowing is worse than knowing.

Sure invading someones privacy is wrong, but what about having an affair with someone who is not your spouse? Which is more wrong? Heaven forbid Jen try to gather proof that her husband is cheating on her, and instead just make wild accusations. It's justifiable behavior in this situation.

Jen, I'm sorry to hear that you have to go through this. I'm going through a similar situation myself. TiredMan was right, you can't tell someone who they can and cannot be friends with. At the same time you do not have to tolerate this sort of behavior by your husband. Your husband is having an affair; its not physical, but its still an affair and still just as dangerous. some_guy has it down pat. Its unfortunately time to make a difficult decision. The situation sounds unbearable for you, and it has to change. Your feelings are totally valid. His relationship with this woman is very inapproprate. Your husband isn't hearing your concerns nor is he understanding your feelings. You can't make him do either, I'm sorry to say. And until he's ready, there isn't much hope. But what you can do is show him what life would be like without you. You have total control with this. It may sound cold, but I think its time for you to leave. The shock of your departure and the time apart should give him time to figure out what he wants. He will no longer have you to meet his needs, and that will hurt. Right now his girlfriend is meeting some small set of needs, while you are meeting much of his other needs. Without you in his life, he might feel empty and that might be all it takes to get him to wake up and hear what your needs are. If this is what he wants and is willing to do what it takes, then it is time to talk about him immediately ending the relationship with this other woman completely and totally. You have to be prepared for the fact that he still has feelings and will continue to have feelings for her for quite some time. If he does decide to come back and do what it takes, I think its very important to seek couples counseling. His infidelity might be because you aren't meeting some of his needs. This doesn't excuse his behavior by any means, but unless he is able to communicate what these needs are, and you work together towards addressing them, he'll be miserable and will be prone to seeking someone else to meet them. You will have to ultimately decide if its worth going through this pain. Seperation is not easy. Without my sister and my best friend, I don't know how I could get through it (1 month down, 5 months to go). If you go through with this, gather up a support group. Friends and family who will hold you centered during this tough time. Also I would suggest seeking individual therapy during this time to help sort your thoughts and feelings. This is a tough thing to endure, but the alternative; allowing your husband to continue to ignore your feelings will only be worse. Good luck and godbless.