Willow_Moon

I read where you mentioned maybe just agreeing with her... there is such a thing called matching. In other words, use the words and terms she uses to help her understand that she is not incapable of understanding or learning. It does sound a bit like emotional blackmail, but I may be responding from my own experiences. Consider replying to her by telling her if she really believes she is "thick," then she is absolutely right. We manifest about ourselves what we believe to be true. Or simply tell her that you feel she is using the term "thick" as an excuse to either A. Not learn a new skill or B. Have someone else - namely you - do it for her; and it is getting old but also uncomfortable... how are you as her daughter suppose to react when she basically calls herself stupid... you are in a no win situation, if you tell her she is not, she thinks you are fluffing her... if you agree, then you feel bad for affirming something to her that you don't believe. Also consider that when you do handle things for her that she is perfectly capable of handling on her own, in a round about way ... you are telling her that you agree with her. You should probably ask her if there is some reason that she has not told you about that is causing her problems with learning such as dyslexia or whatever.

I haven't read all the replies, but when my nephew lived with me.... as far as I was concerned, he was mine. Now I didn't spank him often, but he did get spanked... and now I have a daughter and I am sure she will also get spanked. This is how I personally deal with spankings... First, I don't spank for every little thing... spanking is reserved for major infractions. Secondly, I never spank while I am mad - I would say to my nephew, go to your room, I will be there in a minute. Third, I always said to my nephew, before the spanking began, you are going to get three swats... now for any parent who spanks, you know what it is like when the kid starts hopping' around and covering their bottom with their hands... so part of my rule is that they have to put their hands on the bed, and if they remove them then they get an extra swat. This assures that when my nephew was spanked, he was spanked on his bottom rather than me accidentally spanking a more vulnerable part of his body. I personally never spanked his naked bottom and doubt I will do that to my daughter, I think that is a form of humiliation that need not be added to a spanking. Spanking also is only appropriate, IMHO, up to an age when a child has yet to comprehend cause and reaction... they are still too young to really fear anything but pain. My 8 month old daughter doesn't get time out and I can't exactly explain to her why I don't want her opening or reaching for X... but she understands the word NO! She understands that if I say NO!, and she doesn't back away... then next thing coming is NO! along with her hand being swatted. My house is baby proofed and I have the ability to remove her from situations, but what about when we go to someone else's house and things aren't set up just right for her... I need to be able to quickly get her attention if she is in danger, and be consistent... that sockets, covered or not are a NO! - I know I am getting a bit off topic, but back to my nephew, when he was 4 or 5 he had done something to deserve a spanking... and he was particularly upset that he was about to get a spanking... I turned him around and said asked him if I had not warned him that he would get a spanking if he did X, and he acknowledged that I had. I asked him if he thought I was kidding when I warned him, and he said he did not think I was kidding. I asked him if he thought I spanked him, because I liked hurting him and he said he didn't think so. Then I explained to him, that it wasn't just kids who got in trouble, but grown-ups also got in trouble when we didn't follow the rules... no we didn't get spankings, but we had to pay fines, go to jail, lose things, etc. if we didn't follow the rules. Part of growing up was learning that if you don't follow the rules, then you get punished and part of being mature is accepting that punishment. He turned around put his hands on the bed, got his three swats, and didn't even cry... then turned around and apologized to me. My nephew doesn't live with me anymore, but just a couple of days ago I attended his 10th birthday party and he came up to me and hugged me tight as ever, and he really does enjoy my company, but he also respects me as an authority figure and doesn't like disappointing me. I never talked down to him, ever... I always allowed him to address me with respect if he felt he needed to say something to me or he disagreed with me, I always let him know the rules and the consequences for not following the rules, but also the rewards for following them. Punishments were dealt with matter of factly, rather than emotionally... well except once, lol, when he had gotten into my powder for about the third time in a row, but this time he made it 'snow' in my bedroom... I was so mad! I swept up that powder and went and dumped it in his room... he freaked out completely and I told him that if I had to clean up my room, then he had to clean up his room too... he never got into my powder again. But back on topic... the number one rule in the house was I say things once. If my nephew had started whining at dinner, then he was excused from the table... at the age of 7 if we were out to eat, I would park the car where you could see it from where you are sitting and that is where he would go while everyone else enjoyed their meal... of course only if the weather is not too hot or too cold. Going out to dinner is supposed to be enjoyable for everyone, and if his not behaving or if his whining excessively is ruining dinner for everyone else, then he should be removed from the table. If he starts whining at home, tell him you don't want to hear it... he can go to his room if he wants to whine. When he was ready to address you respectfully and maturely, then you would be ready to listen. Another thing that really helped us anyway was we each had our own personal space... it happens we all three had desk with computers, so that became our space - we all understood that if we went to our space, then we were to be left alone... it was our private time. He would play his learning games or draw or whatever, but it seemed to help us all... when we were getting frustrated we went to our place, and if I could see he was getting upset or anxious, then I would suggest to him that maybe he needed to go cool off and he seemed to really enjoy having that space and time alone. By the time a child is seven, I don't think spankings are really appropriate anymore, because they are old enough by then to understand consequences and by then you have other more appropriate leverage... such as loss of a privilege or toy for X amount of time. Do not budge on the consequences... the biggest thing this young man needs right now, especially with his mom so far away is a sense of security and part of that security is knowing what to expect. He is old enough to even discuss this with you and help come up with consequences... have him talk to you about your main concerns, and both of you decide what happens when he does X, then stick to it. I am not suggesting he co-parent himself, it is very important that you let him know you are the one in charge, but if he acts maturely you will listen to his thoughts concerning future consequences for whining or whatever X might be. In the end, you are the one who makes the final decision so make that clear to him.

LOL, I know where you are... I live close to my mother also... and she pulls the same stuff. It was REALLY bad when I was a teen, and I imagine my own 15 year old sisters go through much of the same thing. I am the oldest of six girls. Now that I am out of the house it is easier to deal with... I simply refuse to deal with her while she is having an "episode." My sisters and I have dubbed it Crazy Mode or CM for short. Our Christmas was also pretty well ruined, because she decided to have a fit. It angered me because I had worked very hard on Christmas... my daughter's first and the whole family coming to my house, BUT I was surprised that I didn't take it personally. BTW, my mom is a nurse also... and she too has a different work personality, but at the same time she is extremely good at her job and patients love her - and I myself have an anxiety disorder along with depression, so I found myself really sucking it up and just going for it if I had to go in public... almost like acting - the scene in Avatar where Howard Hughes has to go to dinner really hit home with me... and I realized that is what she does also. I recognize I do it, and she recognizes also that she does it... but I don't think either of us suffer from BPD - it feels more like stage fright. My thoughts feel disorganized, sorry I just woke up, but I hope this is making sense. Anyway, I go to a psychiatrist on a continuing basis... now I am at the point where I basically I go for a check-up every three months... I take my meds, and monitor myself. I have been diagnosed with severe depression, not bipolar or BPD. My mother has also been to a psychiatrist, but I am not sure of her diagnosis, but I don't think she is Bi-Polar either, my sister is bi-polar and there is a distinct difference in their symptoms. My mother never gets the high happy that my sister gets... and when my sister's depression hits - it seems to come from nowhere, and she is not abusive towards others... she internalizes, much like I do. For instance when I had my daughter, everyone was on high alert for postpartum depression... including myself, and when I told my psychiatrist that PPD scared me, because I didn't ever want to be in a place where I could hurt my child, he assured me that I wouldn't ever hurt my child or anyone else... if I got PPD I would be at very high risk of hurting myself because of the type of depression I suffer from. Incidentally, my daughter is 8 months and no signs of PPD have shown up. With my mother... and I am not a psychiatrist, but it seems to me that she is more a sociopath than anything else, along with a healthy dose of depression. There is a real disconnect there when it comes to emotion... whether happy or sad, and she seems to honestly not be able to empathize with those around her. It is as if she goes through the motions and does what appears to be correct. I think it is part of why she is such a good nurse, she can deal with death and dying - but not be emotionally affected by it, thereforeee she can easily care for a patient without getting distracted and her "calm" is soothing to her patients. I have watched her working and every time I am blown away by what a wonderful job she does, and how easily she makes her patients laugh. I have also noticed with my mother that when she goes into CM, she becomes completely irrational - and only much later is she able to look back and see that she went wacky... when she is doing it, there is absolutely no point in even trying to tell her she is doing it again... she cannot pull herself out of it or even recognize that she is doing it. She wont take her meds and any evil thing she does she feels completely justified. Even later when she admits that she was out of line, it is generally just a partial admission - not what I would call a heartfelt apology and twenty years ago, I could forget even ever getting that much. I remember once after having scrubbed the kitchen completely - toothbrush for the tile and all, she came home and decided the kitchen was filthy for some unknown reason... I guess I missed a spot, but she then proceeded to literally start taking everything out of the pantry and fridge and throwing it on the floor... rice, flour, ketchup, eggs... you name it. And then she said to me, now you are gonna clean it up - and it was the first time I told her not only no, but hell no... she made that mess and she could clean it up. Shockingly, she did clean it up and I didn't get in further trouble for refusing. I don't know what saved my hind end that day... a moment of clarity on her part? My mother never beat me, but I remember being SCARED of her, because she would without warning just go off the deep end. As an adult, now removed from the situation to some extent... she lives like five houses down, but anyway there are some things I have noticed. When she is particularly stressed, sick, or hasn't been sleeping well... then she is more likely to go into CM. The stress doesn't necessarily have to be negative, either... but if it overwhelms her - good or bad - like Christmas for instance, then we are more likely to see her crazy side. She says mean horrible things about her 'target' that cut like a knife... this time my sister was her target and she just went on and on about what a horrible mother she was and how she doesn't love her child and she hoped the father got custody... and that she would even help the father get custody - it was beyond over the top and my sister of course was bawling. The next couple of days I continued to talk to her, but I absolutely refused to be drawn into an argument - and I told her that I felt she was acting out of character and that she really needed to go and take a nap and let things cool off for a couple of days. Of course I also asked her to take her meds, but she refused - I told her I loved her and that was the extent of my communication with her. I reminded my sister to try very hard to not take what she was saying personally and to simply not feed into her behavior. Refuse to argue, refuse to take what she was saying personally. This episode ended in record time... days vs. weeks, and I think it had a lot to do with the fact that not one person gave her any ammunition. I hope this helps you... I suspect if your mother is anything like mine, she is very exacting - probably even very smart. She probably makes people laugh out loud, because she says things that others wouldn't dare say... she isn't trying to be funny, but it comes off that way and she enjoys the attention. She feels superior to those around her, and in many way - technically she probably is, but emotionally she is not, but because of the disconnect I spoke of earlier, she doesn't realize her lack of emotions, empathy, and sympathy. It is simply not there. I think - and this is my own theory - that is part of the reason my mother goes off the deep end, since she has no ability to truly understand how deeply her words and actions cut, she doesn't have the natural ability to check herself like most of us do. She doesn't consider the consequences, because to do so would mean she would have to emotionally emphasize with the outside world. It is a sucky thing to deal with as her daughter, as I know you are aware of, but we have one of two choices... completely cut her out of our lives, which is probably the healthiest thing we could do for ourselves OR recognize that SHE IS CRAZY, NOT YOU - and don't feed into her craziness - you can't cause it or prevent it, only she can do that by seeking medical help. You can refuse to deal with her when she is acting inappropriately and refuse to allow her to get to you personally. It is not easy, but if you can get yourself to a place where she doesn't emotionally affect you, then you will be on the right path. And one other tip, even when you two are getting along and she is not in CM, don't let her get too close... don't share things with her that she can later turn around and use against you. It is sad, but the relationship I have with my mother is very superficial in many regards - because if I let her in I feel like I am opening myself up to an assault. She doesn't seem to even notice that I have emotionally disconnected from her, I don't really do much different, but I have a completely different attitude.

As the eldest daughter of six girls with there being sixteen years difference between myself and my 15 year old twin sisters, I am repeatedly shocked and amazed at the actions of my youngest sisters. They get away with things now that I wouldn't have even thought of considering when I was there age for fear of literally not being able to sit down for a week or worse. Most recently they were caught shop lifting from a major department store… but that is simply the tip of the iceberg… they have been stealing for years from my mother, my home, convenience stores, etc. They steal change, make-up, perfume… basically anything not nailed down. At this point, my mother refuses to even buy herself make-up, perfume, or jewelry due to the twins taking it out of her room even though it has been made perfectly clear that they are not allowed to take, use, or "borrow" anything that is not theirs. I myself have on more than one occasion caught them stealing from my house also… my stash of quarters, my make-up, even my crest whitening strips! They also lie almost pathologically… it is beyond frustrating, especially as our mother's health has markedly declined in the last year and her doctor's cite stress as one of the main contributing factors. The twins at this point are now both bigger and stronger than my mother, she is raising them on her own… it is quite literally impossible for my mother to enforce any type of punishment when they are deserving of one. Often she tells them to go to their room, and they refuse… flat out refuse. If my mother physically attempts to make them go to their room by taking them by the arm, they start screaming abuse… not just to her, but by running out of the house in hysterics claiming they are being hurt. I have witnessed this more times than I can even count… to the point it is ridiculous. I have witnessed them standing over her screaming that they WOULD NOT do as they have been told and she can't make them. And the sad part is that they are right. Not only have they done this to my mother, but they have also done it to me, my husband, and other older family members who have tried to back up my mother when the twins are being punished. For the longest time their big threat was they were going to call the police or child welfare if my mother spanked them. The only reason that ended was several months ago when the threat was once again put out their, my mother simply handed them the phone and told them to do it, because she would rather sit a night in jail than to have to put up with what they were putting her through. So then when they were given a chore they didn't want to do or they were being punished, they simply walked out of the house… the last time one of them went to a friend's house complaining they were in danger… I was with my mother when we drove up on my sister and she was told to get in the car. As she got into the car she stated that she left the house because she felt she was in danger of bodily harm… which, as a witness to the entire event, was complete nonsense – they often site what seems to me is their convenient take on what schools and other guardians have been teaching them in order to protect themselves in situations where they truly are in danger. Any one thing in and of itself really isn't that big of a deal, but they have fined tuned the art of barrage. Everything from throwing dishes away because they don't want to wash them to breaking vacuum cleaners to get out of sweeping the carpet. They have no respect for their immediate elders or anybody's possessions, including their own and they seem completely incapable of understanding that my mother lives and runs the house on a very tight budget. They go through a months worth of groceries in less than a week – again after having been explained to that there is a limit to the amount of money… more than once they have had to (along with my mother) eat ramon noodles for weeks, because they have already eaten everything else. They get a new pair of jeans, and within the first week they are ripped or written on… their favorite explanation for rips are that they were snagged on a fence. Now my mother refuses to purchase them new clothes, from now on they are getting their clothes from the thrift store. After they misused their washer machine until it broke… the third one in three years… my mother refused to buy a new one, she said they could go to the laundry mat or hand wash their clothes… the list just goes on and on. So what's my point? My point is, my sisters are wearing out everyone around them… and it seems they tag team whoever is their target at the time. The only apt analogy that comes to mind in Chinese water torture, and frankly I am of the opinion society as a whole has inadvertently empowered my sisters to openly and proudly show off what they can get away with. All it takes is a phone call, and CPS seems more than happy to demonize parents and force them to attend parenting classes – at least that has been what I have noticed. Your child can hit you, but you can't hit them… when I was growing up – it was made very clear to me that if I chose to hit someone then to expect to get hit back… and if I was so dumb as to hit someone who was bigger and stronger than me… then I deserved to be knocked on my * * *. Now days that is supposedly child abuse and I am struggling to understand why. Several years ago, my nephew got mad at me and bit me, I turned around and bit him back – he was shocked, and though it hurt him – I did not bite him hard enough to break the skin or bruise him, but I bit him back… as far as I know he never bit anyone ever again – certainly he never bit me again. He raised his hand to me once in a motion to hit… as I had done a couple of decades earlier to my mother – and I said to him the very same thing she said to me which was, "If I were you, I would think twice about hitting me – because I am a LOT bigger than you and I hit a lot harder too… and if you hit me, I will hit you back." I didn't hit my mother and my nephew didn't hit me… even at the tender age of three or four children GET that concept. Now certainly when I was young, that was completely acceptable… with my nephew that idea of hitting a child for any reason was growing out of favor, and now with my youngest sisters – it simply holds no power, because they run out the door screaming about being threatened with bodily harm. It may sound as if I am exaggerating, but unfortunately I am not – if anything I am understating how they have twisted all the good intentions of society to prevent child abuse into their own little game of exploiting the flaws. Right now I am speaking of only my own family and our experiences, but it is hard for me to believe that this is an isolated incident. I think that their needs to be some serious evaluation as to how widespread this phenomena of children becoming abusive to their elders, because they feel – and often rightly so – that they are holding all the cards. I absolutely am not advocating child abuse and I feel that I need to make that perfectly clear, but it seems our society has become so abuse paranoid that parent's hands have been tied. Even when a child does something against the law, it is the parent who is forced to take off work, show up in court, and face the judge, pay fines, etc. Kids, or at least my sisters anyway are well aware of this, and blatantly stated that they shoplifted because they were mad at Mom, knowing full well that along with time off from work, court fines, and other fees associated with their shoplifting would fall square on her shoulders. They are purposely getting in trouble as a form of harassment towards my mother, because they are mad. My sisters' audacity just leaves me speechless… the very day after my mother had a significant seizure brought on again by stress, they sneak out of the house… a few days before her seizure is when they shoplifted from a local department store. Nothing seems to be working on them… I am convinced that they are prime candidates for one of those wilderness programs, but nobody in our family can afford to send them to one of those. Even the local cops have tried to use their authority to make an impression on them, but that has done absolutely nothing to deter their actions. I would be more than happy to see a journalist take this issue on… because I feel there are other parents out there who may be going through the same thing, but are embarrassed to speak out or confused as to how to handle such a situation. Who wants to admit that their child has them under their thumb and/ or they feel completely powerless to stop the abuse, barrage, Chinese torture… whatever you want to call it. Very good people with very good intentions have unwittingly enabled and empowered abusive children and I feel that their needs to be another option considered… I am not sure what exactly, but one that does protect people who are abused, truly abused – while also leaving parents and caregivers the necessary authority and backup needed to properly discipline their children. My husband will not even be alone with my younger sisters, due to their proven history of crying wolf, lying, and purposely manipulating civil servants of the city… it is not beyond any one of our imaginations that the twins would get upset at him and then punish him by accusing him of an indecent act. How is it that a 15 year old child has the power to ruin, or at the very least make life a living hell for someone by simply picking up the phone and making an accusation that is completely false? Tomorrow morning – or actually now (01-07-2005) this morning at 10 am, my sisters will be punished for having stolen items from my home and for having been caught shoplifting from a local department store. They are going to walk up and down the Haggard block 100 times wearing sandwhich signs stating that they have stolen from a home in this neighborhood as well as a local department store. Many on this block will attend this "event" sitting on their front lawns eating doughnuts and drinking coffee. I am sure their will be naysayer's who will claim this is some form of child abuse, but after checking with the local police department, we have been told that it is not. My comments to those who believe this punishment is horrible… 1. What if it had been your home? 2. It seems my sisters believe it is sociably acceptable to steal, and that any legal consequences they suffer will be minimal. I think after tomorrow's walk, they will be pretty well aware, that at least in this neighborhood – we do not appreciate thievery, and it is NOT socially acceptable. Plus, I imagine they will be pretty damn tired and sore, as our block is fairly long. 3. The idea came from reading about the drunk driver's in TN that now have to work roadside crews picking up trash with the word's DRUNK DRIVER printed on their bright orange vest. 4. What else is there to do when nothing else has worked and parent's hands are tied? I am not claiming that this IS the answer – but it may very well be a step in the right direction. This is an issue that really does need some light shed on it so that solutions can be worked toward. The only concern of mine (for today's punishment) is what if, as they have done so many times before, the twins simply refuse to put on the signs and do their walk? Then once again, my mother's hands will be tied – and once again, the twins will have had to suffer no consequences for their behavior while all at the same time reaffirming in their own minds that they are untouchable.

Tell him to bite you... and while it is in your best interest to keep your distance, it is not an obligation that he should demand. You are married, the house is both of yours... I think that a month or two is fair - you tell him what date you are leaving, not the other way around. I would also make sure you have your drivers license with you at all times in case he gets the bright idea to change the locks - so that you can prove your address. Also refuse to pay him any money towards bills - and keep your money separate from his. Tell him that you will use whatever you want whenever you want, meaning the kitchen, pool, etc... and if he doesn't like it, then for the next month or two he can live elsewhere. I don't know what state you are in, but I would look up the divorce and alimony laws... he is the one who cheated, which in TX anyway is a big fat no-no as far as divorce goes and TX is an alimony state. Because he cheated and broke the 'contract' of marriage, you have the upper hand and I would keep it that way until the divorce is final. Give him nothing to use against you, don't become intimate with anyone new, and keep your cool. I am not a lawyer nor have I ever studied law, I am saying what I believe to be true - your best bet is to go to an attorney that is working for your best interest. I really think if it came right down to it, you could force him to leave the house and not return until you have made alternate arrangements.

I agree with BellaDonna... if your wife has mentioned Curves, then I think you can safely get her a membership without offending her. When she mentions having put on some weight, tell her that you too have some extra weight - and that you are thinking that the whole family could stand to be a little healthier. Mention that you are considering getting both of you a Gym membership once she is out of school, but maybe until then you two could take a walk around the block each evening. How old are your children? Are they old enough to be alone for 30 minutes or so? If not - take them with you - make a ritual of it, dinner - walk - bath - bedtime story, etc. You know, starting tonight that is what I am going to start doing, that sounds like a nice way to have some family time and get into a little better health at the same time. Lol, thanks... sometimes I have to write in order to sort my thoughts out.

I cannot tell you how good, inside, it makes me feel to know that at the very least two people will benefit from this advice. Thank you for letting me know that this will help you, GettingOverIt. I hope for you and your wife the very best.

I have a story of relation to this, and I am the woman with the husband who no longer finds her attractive, due to weight gain - lack of care for myself, etc. I am going to be brutally honest with you in hopes that it gives you help in approaching your wife. First off my husband's timing was absolutely the worst ever... I am gonna give a quick run through of the events, but actually my first post here was on the subject of him having a 'cyber affair.' I was four months pregnant when he started acting strangely... he was on his computer ALL the time - in my last month of pregnancy I found out he was cybering with one particular woman all the time... he never met her, or called her, or in any other way had contact with her except over the internet. The biggest reason I consider what he did to be cheating is because he actively kept it hidden and a secret from me. Now... many, many things happened - including the birth of our first daughter... and we were still fighting over this, we fought nearly every day for two months - but here is the kicker... At one point in his anger he said to me that I was no longer attractive to him and he didn't want to have sex with me anymore... that I could no longer turn his head in a crowd. I had just given birth by C-section on top of his internet addiction - which it ended up as in my humble opinion, and finding out he had been having cybersex with one particular woman for months. He did not say anything to me that was necessarily untrue or that I didn't already know, whether or not I wanted to admit it... but for him to use it in an argument as a way to hurt me was plain wrong. So, here is my two cents... 1. DO NOT say anything to your wife about her appearance in anger or any other stressful period. Make sure that when you talk to your wife that there are not other issues needing to be sorted out between you two first. No matter how you say it, hint it, or imply it... nobody likes hearing that they are no longer attractive to their significant other. 2. This co-worker that you are having feelings for, you know you need to distance yourself from her. If she strays into personal conversation - tell her point blank that her problems with her ex are not appropriate for the work place. Remove yourself from her presense as much as possible. Though, I realize it is not your intention to have an affair with this woman, do not give yourself even the option of temptation. The road ahead for you and your wife will be stressful, but you need to 'keep your head in the game' for lack of a better term. Concentrate all your energy on making your marriage what it should be. 3. Personally, if my husband bought me a membership to a gym, I would not take the 'not so subtle hint' well. It would probably just make me angry... I know that I have no rational reason for being angry, but I would be. I think your best bet is to sit down and tell your wife that what is on your mind, and readily acknowledge your own faults. Do you still look the same? Are you as buff, have you also gained weight... are you going bald? Tell her that you love her over and over and make sure she gets that. BTW, does she ever bring up her own weight? 4. It takes two to tango in bed, and while she may not be very creative, neither are you. It will likely be easier for her to hear that you are ready for some sparks to fly in the bedroom, than to hear that she is no longer attractive to you. Maybe that is the approach to use, after-all, once she starts feeling sexier - she will be more likely to live the part... paying more attention to the details and such. Seduction is about showing the woman that you love that she is worth the half hour or so of 'getting her in the mood.' Read her... pay attention when you kiss her on her body... which places does she especially like having kissed? Suggest something new... maybe light bondage and watch her reaction. 5. Be considerate of her very busy schedule... understand and tell her that you understand that she is a very busy woman and that you know her schedule makes it difficult for her to make time for herself. Offer to help her make an hour or two of just her time... maybe give your wife a surprise manicure and pedicure, and take the kids out to lunch while she is being fawned over. Her busy schedule also is probably part of the reason that she is uninteresting in the bedroom... I mean when your tired, sex is work. As I said before, once your wife starts feeling sexy - the next natural step for her is to be sexy. Romantic gestures that will make her feel and look pretty are the way I would hope my husband would approach this very difficult situation. Hand her $200.00, a rose and a card with an appointment time on it for a really nice hair salon, and tell her to go get the works. 6. Compliment your wife when she makes herself up... when she gets out of the shower tell her how wonderful she smells and brush out her hair - tell her that you love her hair. If your wife complains of nothing to wear - encourage her to go shopping, and then be excited when she comes home and shows off her new outfits. If your wife buys some lingerie... admire it it on her. Look for the things that got your attention in the first place... was there something in her smile, or her eyes... remind yourself and her about that cute habit she has or the silly face she makes or whatever... and notice her beauty often. 7. Work on your own image as well... by example show her that you want her to desire you as you want to desire her. It is not fair to put this on her shoulders and then force her to change alone. 8. A goal might also help... for instance my husband has said that if I can get back down to my ideal body weight, he will pay for me to have a breast reduction - which is something I want very much. The goal doesn't have to be over the top - as mine might be, lol - but it does need to be something that SHE really, really wants. 9. Laugh - make her laugh, give her a little goose or toss a piece of popcorn at her... have a pillow fight, do whatever it takes to make both of laugh until your sides hurt. It is amazing how good we feel about our-self and others - and just plain good inside after a good belly laugh. I know this seems like you are the one doing all the work, but really it is you who is initiating a change, and it is you who wants your wife slimmer - so taking the time to make your wife feel sexy should be well worth it. Once she feels sexy, she will be sexy - and once you see her making herself up more, or buying shoes again, or putting on her special perfume... I suspect you too will find that her sex appeal is definitely still there - maybe hidden under a bushel for a time, but not lost.

I agree with DN, and it is very difficult to suppress the emotions you are going through right now, but for your own sanity - recognize that whether you like it or not, this is now reality and how you deal with this is all that matters right now. Look at all your options... can you afford rent on an efficiency, is there any public aid that might assist you, is there anything you own that you don't want or really need that might bring in some money? Learn to love Ramon Noodles and Chicken... You have just been blindsided by the most hurtful news that you could possibly receive, short of finding out your child has died, in my opinion... no doubt that this is a pain that will be with you for a while. You however, are strong enough to get through this - your husband has made his choice in a very cowardly way from your description of the situation. You show him that you are not a coward - you understand that his feelings have changed, but that does not give him the right to bully you in any way, form, or fashion. You take the time you need to clear your head, and make a plan, and stick to it. Take an inventory of what you have and what you need. Try even talking to yourself in third person... as if you were councelling your best girlfriend, what would you advise her to do? Let people who care about you, help you to get on your feet again. Most importantly, don't give up on yourself or allow your husband's choice to decide your future. You are 28 - a young, vibrant woman, who is at just the right age to get out there and show this world what you are made of. Visit all the things you missed by marrying young, go out, date, enjoy your freedom. Your husband has made his choice, now it is time to make yours... is this the end or the beginning? You are the only one who can decide that. My heart is with you... "Always face the sun, and the shadows will fall behind you."

The actual compromise is that although my husband and I go out, we do not go out as often as he would ideally like. On the flip side, we do go out and thereforeee I do not get to stay holed up as much as I would prefer to. We both get some of what we want, but neither of us gets exactly what we want. We both give and take in order that overall WE are both happier. In the end we are both individually happier and thus our marriage is happier, because each of us feel understood and respected as well as feeling understanding and respectful - so in that sense we are both serving our own goal of making our-self happy by making each other happy. Again we compromise on how often we go out... and while I grant you that I can't leave a leg or arm at home while I go out, I very much do have to leave part of myself behind in order to get through the night. I have to leave behind the part of me that is afraid and would rather not go. Even when I am out, I feel like I am there in body, but not in spirit - it feels like I am playing a role - my part... the social wife enjoying her night out. To your first question... it is not my belief that I cannot go out, I recognize full well that I am not a prisoner in reality, I am a prisoner only because of my own fears - which rationally I know have no merit. One's own belief system or opinions or feelings are not compromised - you may change your belief or opinion or feeling, but I agree that you either believe or you don't believe and thereforeee there is no room for compromise. This however highlights the few examples that require no interaction with another person or the consideration of the overall good. Now, I, for example, may absolutely hate my mother-in-law, and my husband may hate his - but we both love our mother and we both want our daughter involved with our mother. So, we both compromise for the good of the family as a whole - he is pleasant to my mother and I am pleasant to his and because we both love our mother, neither of us put down the others mother - and most certainly we don't put down the grandmother's in front of our child. We both have urges to just tell that old b* to go to hell, but we hold our tongue. It doesn't mean either of us like our mother-in-laws anymore that we ever did. It simply means we would rather not hurt our loved one, than to act on our feelings towards someone we hate... thus we compromise continuously in big and little ways - one for Thanksgiving, one for Christmas; etc. Every relationship, in order to succeed knows compromise... It is impossible to always only think of yourself and do what only pleases yourself without thought or consideration to what it will do to the other person, and still have a successful relationship. Often there is a certain amount of 'because it makes you happy, it makes me happy,' but not always... sometimes you just do it whether it makes you happy or not, because it is that important to the other person - and that other person is that important to you. Italian is not my favorite... but my husband loves Italian food, so occasionally we go to an Italian restaurant, neither one of us likes Chucky Cheese, but we both go there to please our nephews and daughter. He picks the movie one night, and I pick the movie the next. A compromise is not tantamount to doing something begrudgingly, nor is it subversive to yourself, your partner, or love. Compromise is not a negative thing - nor is it necessarily positive, but it is necessary at times. When we meet in the middle we share with another the expression of true love towards each other, because we both equally go the distance to keep each other, our family, and ourselves happy.

Honestly, talo, I found your post a bit confusing. Although, if I read it right - basically you are saying that if you love someone, you don't try to change them and that would include loving yourself? Just trying to clarify. I can sort of relate to this issue... as I am the one who is agoraphobic, and my husband is a social bug... it is tough for us both. I have a hard time walking out my front door, much less actually going out... and he craves socialization, but he wants me with him. We did compromise, and so far it is working out well... We go out once every other week drinking and dancing and socializing. I do get nervous days before just thinking about it... but I push myself to take at least this step, because not only is it healthy for me, but my husband NEEDS the socialization like others need water. In return, he is very understanding if I am not up to last minute dinner invitations or whatever... I mean, with starting out every two weeks, sometimes I can go out more often to 'easier' places... like to dinner or a movie. If I were only pleasing him, we would be going out three or four times a week. If he were only pleasing me, we would never ever go out, except to very easy places. We compromise for love, but we do not compromise love.

It is tough going to therapy the first time... but therapist encounter trepidation with each new patient and part of their job is giving you a comfortable, safe place to open up. Do not let your embarrassment keep you from getting the help you need. If you decide to open up to your husband, it might be easier the first couple of times to have him go with you... if not in to directly talk to the counselor, but with you to the office. That may even be an easy way to bring the subject up to your husband... let him know that you have tried to bury these experiences and now they are haunting you and you realize that you can no longer sort through this alone and that you feel you really need a therapist. Give him the basics and let him know that you are not yet comfortable going into any details. You may find once you open up that you find it easier to talk to him than you thought. I know seeking a professional sounds scary and I understand being embarrassed and not wanting to discuss what happened to you. I think that you should give it a go, though... the worst that will happen is that you have shared a secret with a trained professional who has a legal obligation to never share that information with anyone else. Commit to going three times minimum and if you hate it... walk away. In your shoes, I would specifically search for a counselor who specializes in abuse issues - and maybe even a couples counselor as this may be something that you AND your husband will need help with sorting out. If you are not going to get counseling, then write and then write some more... get these thoughts out of your head and onto paper or continue posting on this forum.... the important thing is to not keep this to yourself.

I just want to clarify what you are saying... From the ages of 15 to 19 you were in a series of abusive relationships. Then in the next two years you met, fell in love with, and married your husband? How long have you been married? Were the men who were abusive towards you your age or older... as in molesting you? I agree with RayKay, GO to a professional abuse counselor and I also think you need to sit down and tell your husband everything - marriage is hard enough without there being secrets.

This reminds me of the time I was about eight or so, and got angry and probably said damn or hell, maybe even sh**... and I didn't exactly get in trouble, my Dad just looked at me rather shocked and said something to the effect that people who swear show their ignorance and lack of vocabulary, not to mention their lack of creativity when all they can think of is a curse word to express themselves. To this day that runs through my head when I cuss... and makes me feel as stupid now as it did that day.

I tend to agree with miracle and I applaud you for recognizing this is about you and not really about the man you are dating. I doubt at this point you are going to be able to be 'just friends,' because the jealousy will not allow that and probably will consume you. I mean if by chance you think you are up to it, then miracle's advice is right on... Whether you can step back or not, go to a professional, you may very well have OCD which may be contributing to this, and can be helped with medication. OCD will not make you a jealous person, but if you have it - it might be exaggerating your obsessing over thoughts that may or may not have any merit. Do your very best to keep it in the forefront of your mind that you are going to give your boyfriend the benefit of the doubt - at the very least commit to giving him the benefit of doubt until you have begun therapy. Also you need to think about what it is that you are getting from being possessive and jealous. I know it seems obvious that this is not something you want for yourself, but there is something you are getting from it or you would be able to let this irrational behavior go. For instance, when I was about your age, I went through the same thing... the one thing being possessive and jealous did for me, was always keep people - particularly men - at arms length, I basically used my jealousy to guard me... despite my words and actions - there was no getting to me and thereforeee I felt safe. I didn't consciously realize this until much later, but once I figured it out... I also figured out that the guard that kept people out was a mean guard... and one who no longer cared whether or not I wanted to be close to someone... his nature was to turn everyone away, especially anyone who I really thought I might care about. If I began to open up my heart to trust and love, their would be no place for the guard I call jealousy - and it was as if jealously was doing everything he could to keep his job. By being jealous and possessive, I accomplished the exact opposite of what I professed to want... but, I did get exactly what I wanted on a subconscious level. I hope this helps... I have been up way too long and hope that I am still making sense.

Any time... sometimes it is hard to get any perspective when you are right in the middle of things. Good luck talking with your boyfriend, even if he gets pissed off - it will be much better than walking around feeling guilty - confession is good for the soul... lol.

OUCH!! I prefer a guy to be trimmed, personally.

I agree with GettingOverIT... I don't know how old Tpysl is, but, xxxscorpioxxx, 21 is aweful young to make such a harsh judgement. People marry for all sorts of reasons, and wouldn't be nice if we always did exactly the right thing from the get go... but we don't always. I suspect, LostInTX, that if you follow through with getting together with your true love - you will eventually learn that your true love is more of a myth than a reality. I say that because you have spent so little time with her, and certainly you haven't had to go through any stresses with her. You just don't really know anybody until you're in the foxhole with them... does that make sense? I think that you would benefit from counseling... on your own and with your wife. Your thoughts are selfish, but being selfish isn't always a bad thing... in my opinion often people are so scared to do anything just for themselves - because they feel selfish, that they end up living a life that may please those around them, but simply gives them nothing to feed their own soul. Break the scenario down in your own mind also... for instance - what is it that you feel this other woman will give you that you don't have already. Is this woman the only avenue you have for getting this? If you could get this and continue to be with your wife, would that be an option for you? Etc... In other words look beyond the generalized love of my life train of thought, and identify and define what that term means to you. Once it is all broken down, you may very well find that this woman is not what you want exactly... what you want is (just a for instance) to have the feelings that you get when love is fresh and new - a feeling you may experience with her, but not necessarily because of her.

Are you speaking of all body hair? As a woman, I really do wish that more men would shave their pubic region - I mean it sucks for us also when we get hair in our teeth, or at the very least shave the shaft, if it has any hair on it and trim you balls to half an inch or so. Also, I personally find chest hair attractive, but I don't find it attractive when a man's hair is sticking out of the collar of his shirt because it is long... this happens with my husband, and it doesn't turn me off as such, but it bugs me the way it would bug me to see someone with broccoli stuck in their tooth. As far as legs go, I guess I couldn't care less one way or another if a man shaves his legs. The men who do it - are generally super hot and into sports that makes shaving beneficial for them. Well, I say I could care less, but I doubt that I would find it sexy if my husband shaved his legs. Facial hair is really a factor that seems to depend on a guys face... I think my husband looks more attractive without it, but there are other men that I think are more attractive with it. On a personal note, though, I enjoy kissing a clean shaved face more than one that sports a mustache or beard. Underarms... again, I wouldn't find it terribly sexy if my husband shaved under his arms, but a trim I think would make it look nicer. Head hair... well, I guess I never paid attention... I will be soon though, as it is very obvious that my husband is going bald. I don't think him being bald will really change whether or not I find him attractive. I have never really paid attention to men's hair in that I automatically dismiss a long haired man, or a bald man, or a short haired man, etc... I do notice though whether or not the hairstyle the man has is attractive on him. I have never been with an excessively hairy man, but I suspect that would be a turn off for me. I agree with your previous poster that women are expected to be somewhat virginal looking and our society makes a very big deal about a woman's skin... I think that is the biggest reason that women feel the need to stay clean shaven over most of their body. However I also think it has something to do with our instincts... body hair traps odor, and maybe I am just an odd duck, but when my husband sweats - particularly after he has been working hard, his scent turns me on. I am not talking him crawling under the house or whatever... but say after he mows the lawn. Follow me here on this thought... maybe it is somewhat instinctive for a man to want to keep his hair to trap the odors that signal to women subconsciously that he is a hard worker and thereforeee more likely to be a good mate who is strong and able to care for her. Women really are expected to smell a certain way also... but not musky like men. I suspect that subconsciously men are drawn to women who smell like a woman who will keep their home... a woman who has just done a bunch of laundry or just cooked up a nice dinner is possibly more attractive to a man than she is at other times... the perfumes we wear reflect fruity and flowery smells... two scents that a woman would use to freshen her home or would pick up while working in a garden. And when women ovulate, they omit a unique, very subtle odor that I believe men can smell. I mean I may be completely talking out my a** here, but I think part of the reason men and women shave differently is as much an instinct as it is an ingrained idea we have pounded in our heads as to what a man and a man and a woman are supposed to look like. Also, along those lines... men have generally been the hunter gatherers, and hair is also protective in that it protects their skin and helps to keep their body temperature regulated. Women were suppose to stay in the home and focus on it and the children, and weren't expected to need protection or body temperature regulation - so that may play in shaving also.

I DO... have experience in this situation... to include accidentally seeing something that piqued my curiosity on my husband's computer and then I went searching like a bloodhound. It was the topic that brought me to this forum... link removed Anyway... there are some great big pluses in what you are describing that I didn't have. Number one, your boyfriend doesn't seem to be addicted to being online as my husband was. Once in a while, with different people is far different than hours and hours every night - with the focus on one of two specific individuals. With one of the women he did tell her everything about himself, me, our coming baby... pictures of himself, etc... I was so beyond feeling hurt and betrayed it was unreal - that is a long story that involved a fight that brought us right to the edge of divorce and then resulted in us now being closer than ever. The second woman he was actively pursuing online falls more in line with what you have run into... sorta, but anyway... this second woman was a lesbian and my husband, who is straight and has never to my knowledge shown any trans-gender (is that the word I want?) curiosities - was pursuing this woman using a profile that he was a woman... same thing, he posted pictures that he found on the internet and claimed the woman was him, he called himself Crysta - and completely had this woman convinced he was a woman. When I found out about all this, my head was just spinning... I was like WTH is going on?!!! He is cybering as himself, a straight man AND he is cybering as a lesbian female. I know your situation is nowhere near the point that mine was, but ultimately - as I said before - we are now closer than ever and we have been together 12 years. I suspect your boyfriend is simply roleplaying out a fantasy... a step beyond looking at porn, but still he hasn't gone so far as to personalize it by pursuing only certain individuals. Even in the extreme situation I was in, and the fact that my husband basically become a cyber addict - in the end I found out his original intentions were nothing more than hoping to spice up our sex life and reignite his own sex drive... as medications he had recently started taking were really taking their toll. The whole female identity was a result of an offhand comment that I had made, that a woman knows what a woman wants... so, his big idea was to 'become a woman' in the only way he knew how so that he could better satisfy me. Even the straight woman he pursued was again his attempt to find out more about BDSM, as I had mentioned that I thought maybe that type of lifestyle might really turn me on... he went in questioning and curious and things ended up simply getting out of hand before he realized it. IMO - from what you described you have nothing to worry about. Unless your boyfriend starts pursuing a certain individual or starts spending so much time on the computer that you are being excluded - or other aspects of his life are being neglected, then I would give it no more thought than you would if he was looking at simple porn. Now as for going through his computer... ikes, that pissed my husband off beyond words... I have never, ever violated his privacy before then... but man, it was something I wasn't looking for suddenly it was in my face and frankly I couldn't not look after months of my husband suddenly being secretive and holed up with his computer for hours and hours on in. I know it wont be easy... but personally, even though he may get pissed, I think you should just own up to what you did. Tell him that when the search auto-filled, you became curious... and you know you shouldn't have pursued your curiosity - and apologize. Also, in you fessing up - maybe that could be the way to ask him what's going on. Tell him from the little that you saw, you didn't feel you had anything to be concerned about, but that it really would hurt your feelings if he X. In my case X is the perusal of a specific individual whom he shared intimate details about himself and his life with. Honestly the whole female identity didn't phase me at all - because it was so obviously make believe. Though, I did ask him to fess up to the woman, because I didn't think it was fair that she was forming an emotional bond with a figment of his imagination.... and he did end up fessing up. Had this been a one time contact, I wouldn't have even cared that much. Obviously your boyfriend isn't hunting down a new partner if he is posting fake information about himself... he is there to play as his alter ego. In my own fantasies, I have the perfect body and I never have morning breath, etc... I think that it is pretty common. I think the fake pictures and such are an extention of that aspect of fantasy. I hope I am still making any sense at all... it is way too late for me to be up, but the baby just wont go down... so here I am, and I hope my experience somehow helps with yours.

In my advice to send flowers, I did not read your history of post and it seems that my initial assumption that you guys were separated just recently was wrong. If it has been a very long time, and she is with another man - then I think that flowers are a bad idea. As BillyJean suggested... maybe telling her what is going on, and pointing out to her that it is rather cruel to keep you hoping if she knows that she isn't ever coming back is the answer. Possibly a letter - after the anniversary date has long passed - would be more appropriate.

Why not send her flowers... not show up or anything like that... a simple bouquet, rather than a romantic one and a card that simply says, your in my thoughts.

I generally don't read poetry and I don't write it... but, I liked it. I liked the surprise ending... like a 'gotcha' - which to me tied in with the title/ theme of the project (?) of an exercise in sarcasm. I mean this girl is being totally fatalistic - and for god's sake, it's just ICE CREAM... lol. I love too how the you get the impression that the truck symbolizes a significant journey that the girl is wrestling with inside her head... as if she wants to take it or not, but then BAM! the truck becomes insignificant... this isn't about a journey - it is about something this girl already knows about herself and doesn't plan to change. She knows the choices on the ICE CREAM truck will overwhelm her, but still she goes through the same routine... again, and then chastises herself for rushing herself to pick the one she didn't want in the first place. She places so much importance and pressure on herself to make the right decision and you get the impression as your reading that whatever she is trying to decide is of concern to the masses... when again, it is just Ice Cream. I mean on a more serious side, it also highlights social anxiety and the difficulty some have making even the simplest decisions. It also touches on very real phobias that some people feel like they are being watched and judged all the time. And then it portrays how one really gains nothing when they make a decision they are pressured into making... especially if the pressure comes from feeling overwhelmed and they finally just point blindly.

This is a possibility for sure... but ideally, you wont need to separate to find yourself. At least in my case, my husband was my cheerleader... I couldn't have asked for a more supportive and loving friend. He celebrated my 'finding myself' as one celebrates a butterfly emerging from its cocoon. He got excited and excited for me much the same way I get excited and excited for my infant daughter as she crosses each new milestone.

I am just curious if you might have any idea why they are so restrictive... perhaps something in their religious upbringing or did something happen to you when you were younger... somehow making them feel they must shield you? I suggest sitting them down and without anger explain that you really need to talk to them. Give them a short explanation as to why you feel that the three of you need to talk... such as that you feel that they are being far too restrictive of your activities for your age and then, AND THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT... ask them the opened ended question, "What has to happen for you to allow me to do X?" Be as specific as possible when you ask the question. For instance, "What has to happen so that you will allow me to spend three hours on Wednesday evenings with my boyfriend?" "What has to happen so that you will allow me to go once a week?" "What has to happen for you to allow me to stay out until 2am?" You may want to even ask them not to answer right away, but to think about it until tomorrow evening after dinner, or some other designated time. It might help them to not automatically react with something equally out of line... such as, you would have to be living on your own without help from us. It is possible that once you bring to their attention that their restrictions are so tight that they are cutting off your blood supply... maybe they will be willing to lighten up a bit. If the final answer is, you would have to be out from under my roof... or whatever, take their answers at face value without anger or resentment, and make plans accordingly. If your mom is anything like mine is... the threatening phone call in earshot would never have flown, she would have packed my bags for me. So, it is my opinion that you shouldn't play any games at all... just know you are getting ready to leave and if telling her your plans will make things harder for you in the mean time, then keep it to yourself until the day you are packing. It may take you six months to get enough saved up to get out on your own, but like one poster mentioned... the freedom will come much sooner in knowing that you have a plan of action that you are working on. Plus, I think you will be surprised how many opportunities will suddenly just present themselves to you once you turn this situation around inside yourself. Once you stop feeling victimized and instead feel empowered - once you stop hating your parents for their restrictions and instead love yourself enough to find your freedom - once you realize it is impossible to change another person's personality or how they act, then you figure out that you can only change your own thoughts and reactions to that other person. This is an aside... and just to help you get back to a space where you feel less depressed try this exercise... For one week: *If you need to apologize, then say, "I apologize for X." Think about the message you subliminally send to yourself AND others by saying, "I'm sorry." The word, "sorry" is banned in our household. *State everything in a positive... and this is a toughie, but give it a try and praise yourself each time you are successful. *Also work on eliminating the words, "never" and "always" from your vocabulary. The following is an example of rewording your situation with the above exercise in mind... I just had the biggest argument with my mum. I really need help... Let me explain. My parents are very strict on me, im 19 years of age. Ever since I could remember I was secluded from my friends, I stayed home while friends attended birthday parties and even to walk down to the shops was too much to hope for. Recently, my parents have changed and I can walk to the shops on my own and I really enjoy having that small freedom, but I need even more freedom so that I can keep my friends and feel healthy inside. I see my friends on rare occasion, due to the restrictions that my parents have imposed. Seeing my friends so seldom does make it more difficult for me to develop close bonds with people outside of my home. I do feel these restrictions are limiting my own growth on many personal and social levels, and I want my parents to understand how important individual freedom is to me. I want my parents to extend their trust to me and give me the freedom that the average 19 year old is allowed to experience. I want appropriate freedoms even if it means that I will need to move into my own place. I'm at collage at the moment, so moving out would be a challenge, especially since the two jobs I have are low paying; but I know these are obstacles that I am willing to overcome if that is what it will take for me to gain the freedom that I deserve.